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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 19 post(s) |
Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:26:00 -
[1621]
Originally by: Kewso Just close the thread...
Because ignoring your customers really helps, right? /sarcasm.
Well, not this time, mate!
Aurum for vanity or non-vanity, that's the question. Answer it please, CCP. Be mindful of how you answer it, though, as I have a feeling the future of EVE hinges on your repy.
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Bloodpetal
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:26:00 -
[1622]
Originally by: CCP Pann Edited by: CCP Pann on 24/06/2011 00:50:29 I would be lying if I said that whatÆs happening now didnÆt make me sad, but IÆm not here to ask for your sympathy. To be perfectly honest, IÆm here to buy time while we try to sort things out. No sense in lying about it so I'll call a spade a spade.
It's about core principles, not the content so much.
IT's a perfect storm that's come together, escalated by this decision to "wait out the storm".
CCP is in deep **** and they know it. They've put a lot of "dev" time into this expansion, and this reaction is not what they want to see, it's bad for company morale, it's bad for their teams who have worked so hard, and it's bad for their public image.
If I was the average CCP employee and saw this I'd be pretty demoralized that all the months of hard work has culminated in community shock because of a few decisions made in other departments that should really have had a seriously more realistic outlook and outline to execution.
It's bad for their bottom-line, no matter how anyone wants to excuse some people quitting as irrelevant, appearance is everything and "negative" growth looks bad on paper, period. CCP can't work on borrowed time. Shareholders want money, projects need money, and everything works together to bring them every dollar they need to get forward.
ON top of the internal morale issues their managers clearly have to fight back now, as clearly expressed by CCP Pann by saying it makes her sad, because every CCP employee that works the ground level does care, but people who are rolling out these changes are clearly disconnected not only from the EVE Community - but the MMO standards for RMT, the WORLD economy crisis, the very fact that people are starving for the price that they want to charge for a goddamned monocle.
Donate all the PLEXes from any Monocle sales thus far to a charity - and now you'll start to get some realization as to what kind of justice we want.
So, yes, this is a serious blow. They know this is a serious blow. Noone wants to wake up and have 140,000 page view thread with 3000+ posts raging on them. That's a lot of hate ladies and gentlemen.
But frankly, CCP, you deserve it. There's no amount of mis-communication here. Decisions were made on a timeline. Prices were set on a time-line. And wherever that disconnect happened, welcome to re-connect time.
CCP Pann, being here as long as you have been, what I do know is that you've seen other "executive teams" go by, and you have been the mouthpiece for quite a few of them. I'm sure you've seen them repeat the same mistakes over and over as responsibilities change hands, people have to learn the same mistakes over and over. I'm sure you made your decision to wait for the storm to pass with good experience.
But, as is becoming clear, you're not dealing with the typical 'gamer', 'consumer', 'community'. You have something special here for EVE. Knowing your consumer is rule #1 for business. Knowing your product is rule #2. This is one hell of a wake up call.
____________________________________________________ Cost of the week of June 21st |
LordElfa
Gallente Golden Lyon Warriors
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:26:00 -
[1623]
Manifest, you say that CCP Soundwave won't lose his job but I ask you this, how is he supposed to do it now?
He used to be the big link between us and you and now he's lost all credibility and trust with the community. We know his inside thoughts and he's the head designer. Do you truly expect us to be happy knowing he's in charge?
òòòòòòò CSM6-Hated by fools for who they are; Loved by the knowledgeable for what they will do. |
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari Sick Tight BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:26:00 -
[1624]
Originally by: CCP Manifest
Originally by: Kallynda Nai From CCP_Manifest's twitter:
@Thorvik_EVE Oh, I understand passion. THere's of course a lot of logic people are missing, but that's ok.
Pray tell, what logic is missing here?
Well, a "lot" is an admitted overstatement. I was thinking specifically at the time though of the fact that _some_ people don't realize that NeX stuff on sale now can be purchased with in game ISK through purchasing PLEX.
It's a relatively small point, and I probably should have (a) been clearer or (b) not said anything at all.
There is a lot more logic being said here though and a lot of passion as well, and I don't mean to try to diminish that.
Just so that you're aware, there is zero logic being missed by us. There's a great saying I was taught when I first started in game programming and design.
"No matter how clever you think you are, everyone is smarter than you."
Meaning, that you can't make a decision and assume that it's right, even when everyone else is telling you that you're wrong. It means that when you put your idea out to the hundreds of thousands of users, they're generally going to be right more often than not.
You and your company have ignored this, and what you see now is the consequence. As it is, Aurum can NOT stay. It simply can not. Telling us that it is here to stay likely cost your company income, profit, and is threatening to cost it a future.
True story. The NGE is actually being taught in university class rooms to students learning programming and game design. Do not be a chapter in the text books.
Originally by: McKinlay When you get on the batphone and the only people left in the phone book are Aeternus and BLAST it might be time to hang up.
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Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:26:00 -
[1625]
Originally by: CCP Manifest
Originally by: Kallynda Nai From CCP_Manifest's twitter:
@Thorvik_EVE Oh, I understand passion. THere's of course a lot of logic people are missing, but that's ok.
Pray tell, what logic is missing here?
Well, a "lot" is an admitted overstatement. I was thinking specifically at the time though of the fact that _some_ people don't realize that NeX stuff on sale now can be purchased with in game ISK through purchasing PLEX.
It's a relatively small point, and I probably should have (a) been clearer or (b) not said anything at all.
There is a lot more logic being said here though and a lot of passion as well, and I don't mean to try to diminish that.
Manifest, Everything else player spend isk on (with the exception of skillbooks) is created using effort by players. No player effort goes into you guys selling clothes, monocles, or fitting slots.
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Vin Hellsing
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:26:00 -
[1626]
Originally by: Tali Ambraelle To all the whiners, just shut up and leave then, no one cares. Requesting thread lock.
Disagree with first sentence. Agree with second sentence.
Requesting thread lock +1.
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elnukeo
Minmatar Heretic Army
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:26:00 -
[1627]
People need to step back and think...
1. can't you get AUR by using isk in game. meaning that if some crazy ship did come out that could only be purchased by AUR wouldnt it be the same as paying for it with isk? making it just like a normal ship on the market?
2. I can understand standings, such as paying off a faction, but SP is a no go.
3. Make the vanity items fairly priced!!
Am i missing somthing? Please re-size your signature as per forum rules. Maximum height: 120 pixels; maximum width: 400 pixels; maximum file size: 24,000 bytes. Thank you. Shadow. |
Siiee
Recycled Heroes
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:26:00 -
[1628]
Originally by: CCP Manifest The designs we will implement in game will not **** over the sandbox.
It appears that what we think will "**** over the sandbox" and what you think will are two separate things. Unfortunately for you it's our opinion that dictates whether we (your current subscriber base) continue to funnel money into your project.
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Thevani Khashour
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:27:00 -
[1629]
Originally by: CCP Manifest
Originally by: Kallynda Nai From CCP_Manifest's twitter:
@Thorvik_EVE Oh, I understand passion. THere's of course a lot of logic people are missing, but that's ok.
Pray tell, what logic is missing here?
Well, a "lot" is an admitted overstatement. I was thinking specifically at the time though of the fact that _some_ people don't realize that NeX stuff on sale now can be purchased with in game ISK through purchasing PLEX.
It's a relatively small point, and I probably should have (a) been clearer or (b) not said anything at all.
There is a lot more logic being said here though and a lot of passion as well, and I don't mean to try to diminish that.
This is not the issue. The issue is selling game advances on the NeX. For any reason. It's not needed, not wanted by the majority, and breaks the game for a great many players. There is no logic anywhere in stabbing your playerbase in the back for a buck. If you guys had kept this at vanity items, no one except for a few people would even be upset about it. But, that is not the way things are headed, it says so right in your own internal newsletters. The hope is to sell faction rep, ammo, mods and ships on the NeX. Giving a clear advantage to those with a lot of RL cash to buy plex with. The faction rep is probably the worst one of all of ideas even spouted in that newsletter. With exception of the paying for sov gain, thing.
There is no logic. If there were, you wouldn't be seeing this kind of backlash.
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Della Monk
Broski Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:27:00 -
[1630]
RESELLING THEM FOR ISK DOES NOT EXCUSE THE MT. IT IS MERELY PASSING THE BUCK.
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Galding
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:27:00 -
[1631]
Originally by: CCP Manifest
Originally by: Kallynda Nai From CCP_Manifest's twitter:
@Thorvik_EVE Oh, I understand passion. THere's of course a lot of logic people are missing, but that's ok.
Pray tell, what logic is missing here?
Well, a "lot" is an admitted overstatement. I was thinking specifically at the time though of the fact that _some_ people don't realize that NeX stuff on sale now can be purchased with in game ISK through purchasing PLEX.
It's a relatively small point, and I probably should have (a) been clearer or (b) not said anything at all.
There is a lot more logic being said here though and a lot of passion as well, and I don't mean to try to diminish that.
That doesn't matter.
A spaceship right now is made by PLAYERS, mining asteroids, researching blueprints, hauling minerals, manufacturing the blueprint, and marketing the ship.
Whether the ISK used to buy the final product was acquired from PLEX or not doesn't matter, RMT will be in every game whether 'legal' or not, it doesn't effect the gameplay of people making the ships.
The NeX on the other hand is spawning items directly from nothing inside the gameworld, they simply come into being once somebody breaks up a plex and puts the money in CCPs pocket, there was no player based economy manufacturing and creating the monocle, it simply appeared. Further still, unlike nearly everything else in the eve universe, if you are wearing a monocle, it is indestructible, and can not be removed.
In addition to the other myriad of problems involved in MT and the (non?-)vanity store in general, including art team time making new monocles instead of new ship models, and developers spending time on how to implement poker in eve that costs plex, instead of a new feature/expansion for the core gameplay of eve. |
Ceaser Chavez
The Roaches S I L E N T.
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:27:00 -
[1632]
Give me my old hangar back.
Thanks for all the newbs logging in to check out Incarna.
Seriously give me my old hangar back.
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Ephemeral Waves
Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:28:00 -
[1633]
Edited by: Ephemeral Waves on 24/06/2011 04:30:44
Originally by: CCP Pann Edited by: CCP Pann on 24/06/2011 00:50:29Can I please count on at least some of you to help bring the pitchforks and torches down a few notches?
No.
You have the priority of the issues messed up.
1) CQ is a useless, pointless, resource intensive bolt-on to the game. It decreases utility and ease of use for the hanger without adding anything that any of the spaceship pilots in the game care about or need. Give me my old hanger back.
2) There are performance issues wth Incursion that still haven't been fixed. You have people (I am not one of them thankfully) that haven't been able to log on for 2-3 weeks. I haven't been able to run 2 clients on my 2nd computer since two Incursion 'fixes' ago.
3) There is some nonsense about MT that most people laugh at but will ignore. It is an optional part of the game - you know, optional, like CQ was supposed to be.
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:28:00 -
[1634]
Okay having looked over the dev responses in here I have a few questions.
Since you are waiting to make any real response until Friday, can we assume CCP members will remain on duty through the weekend to answer questions, or do you just plan for the fires to keep burning and growing?
CCP Pann for someone that has worked for at least 8 years at CCP, why do you as head of PR only have 30 posts in 8 years? Most of which were posted in 2007. I guess something has lit a fire though because you didn't even post during the t20 scandal.
I'm glad that you admit the leaked internal magazine was real, after all it was hard to deny it wasn't since folks have hard copies. During the AT9 interviews one of the guys even mentioned they were collecting magazines to take with them, CCP Soundwave seemed momentarily a bit distraught over the idea, but apparently no one took enough action to see what magazines were leaving.
I'm not a particular fan of CCP Soundwave and wasn't even before this but at the same time he cannot share the burden. As Lead Designer he pretty much does what he's told. He's told to execute CQ he does it. Etc. I'm sure he has some wiggle room but I don't want to see a repeat of what happened to Jeff Freeman after the NGE for SWG. While certainly Freeman was the architect of the NGE, he was only working under the direction of Smedley and Torres.
That said I have to ask as many have. Why release CQ as it is? There is nothing to hype or market about it. A more finished product would have done better. Releasing it in such a state turns off those prospective customers you hoped to attract. They log on thinking this is it, find you are stuck just seeing yourself in your on quarters, no real interaction with others etc. They log off and never return.
Next is the Noble Exchange. What economist approved this idea? I mean the idea is used in scores of games, ever noticed how they have many items at cheap prices to entice folks to buy. You have the exact opposite, a few high priced items. Sure such as store might work in Hollywood, but on the streets of Atlanta its not going to do well.If this is your lifeline as that internal mag says then it needs some major rethinking if you plan to make money from this.
CQ has a massive memory leak which is contributing to the overheating issues. When will it be fixed? This leak slows down when the station environment is not loaded but does not stop then. Has the devs tested the effects of loading multiple avatars into the same area will have? I have some great doubts about how the system as a whole will handle it given how it handles just the CQ and 1 toon.
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Maziy
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:28:00 -
[1635]
Originally by: elnukeo People need to step back and think...
1. can't you get AUR by using isk in game. meaning that if some crazy ship did come out that could only be purchased by AUR wouldnt it be the same as paying for it with isk? making it just like a normal ship on the market?
2. I can understand standings, such as paying off a faction, but SP is a no go.
3. Make the vanity items fairly priced!!
Am i missing somthing?
Yes, you're missing everything.
Painful to read that.
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:29:00 -
[1636]
Edited by: RougeOperator on 24/06/2011 04:29:29 The other reason I canceled is the way CCP staff are treating customers. Even just in threads like this.
Its just terrible.
Also why was this thread started by a CCP staffer not stickied?
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Morgan Polaris
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:29:00 -
[1637]
Originally by: Ephemeral Waves 3) There is some nonsense about MT that most people laugh at but will ignore. It is an optional part of the game - you know, optional, like CQ was supposed to be.
Yeah, okay. That's going to be fun down the road, you know, in a sandbox game.
Donations accepted: 1BpQEYT7aSUNM863BV67FPxyv1cpxr74uu | http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1535011 |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:29:00 -
[1638]
Originally by: LordElfa Manifest, you say that CCP Soundwave won't lose his job but I ask you this, how is he supposed to do it now?
He used to be the big link between us and you and now he's lost all credibility and trust with the community. We know his inside thoughts and he's the head designer. Do you truly expect us to be happy knowing he's in charge?
Keeping him away from anything that involves PLEX or RL monies would be a start~
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Insidious
0utbreak
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:30:00 -
[1639]
can anybody tell me why i cant buy female clothes for my male character?
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Sinker1345
ANZAC ALLIANCE RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:30:00 -
[1640]
Edited by: Sinker1345 on 24/06/2011 04:31:09
Originally by: CCP Manifest
Originally by: Kallynda Nai From CCP_Manifest's twitter:
@Thorvik_EVE Oh, I understand passion. THere's of course a lot of logic people are missing, but that's ok.
Pray tell, what logic is missing here?
Well, a "lot" is an admitted overstatement. I was thinking specifically at the time though of the fact that _some_ people don't realize that NeX stuff on sale now can be purchased with in game ISK through purchasing PLEX.
if you can buy it in the store even if you can buy it for isk when someone resells it you have crossed a line and betrayed your customer base.
It's a relatively small point, and I probably should have (a) been clearer or (b) not said anything at all.
There is a lot more logic being said here though and a lot of passion as well, and I don't mean to try to diminish that.
YOU KNOW WHAT IS MAKING US MAD OR YOUR THICKER THAN THE PEOPLE WHO DID NGE IN SWG.
you should not have said anything if thats all you could have come up with. at this point with my level of confidence in CCP that is not an overstatement its a cop out response I.E one you throw at our feet and tell us we are going to be satisfied with it.
I have always liked CCP and applauded the devs (not enough in public sadly) but with you leaked memmo and the mt price blunder and all of the other things you have thrown in our face like we are lemmings who you can milk money off of I have no paitence/sympathy for you anymore
prove me wrong about MT for any item which gives people an advantage in game or release a crappy devblog from some ccp dev alt I have never heard of as a cop out so I can canel my accounts.
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Rose Hips
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:30:00 -
[1641]
"Honor isn't about making the right choices. It's about dealing with the consequences. There is a fine line between Right and Wrong. You better know what side of it you are on. The moment you loose your honor-- that's when you learn the hard way. Your choice always comes back around."
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Eladaris
Amarr Excessum Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:30:00 -
[1642]
Originally by: Blazde Edited by: Blazde on 24/06/2011 02:29:29
Originally by: CCP Pann As I see it, the chief complaint is regarding the high cost of goods in the Noble Market. Second, many people are unhappy about the CaptainÆs Quarters. Third, there are some performance issues with Incarna
No. Firstly that list is backwards (Edit: Actually I don't think anyone really cares about the cost of vanity goods they don't intend to buy, and don't understand why Seleene blogged about it. It's a mere symptom of CCP's greed). Secondly the chief complaint is that CCP is determined to turn EVE into a ****ty microtransaction game, blow gaming-integrity out the window and milk the customers for as much $ as possible. Nothing you can say is going to change that. Much as your efforts are appreciated Pann it's way beyond mere 'communication problems' at this point
Quoting this from page #26, onto page 55 apparently? Egads.
Honestly, even thought every other post says something along the lines of "We don't care about MT, just don't add MT that impacts gameplay" there's a fairly hefty number of pages that complain about the cost of NeX items.
That will directly translate in CCP speak into "I bought a few PLEX's earlier in the week to blow on vanity items, but CCP wanted too much money so I didn't spend my wad. Lower the prices so I can, m'kay?"
The CCP dev was absolutely correct in pointing out that people would be much happier with the NeX store at 3/4 the cost.
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KingHybrid
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:30:00 -
[1643]
Edited by: KingHybrid on 24/06/2011 04:31:10 Hi Gigloft!
Oh and CCP stop digging yourself a deeper into the poo storm. It's kind of sad.
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Ludi Burek
Universal Engineering
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:30:00 -
[1644]
Finally the day the Eve would actually die (or begin to) has arrived.
5 Stages of Grief:
Denial - I don't think anyone is here any more
Anger - Majority seems to be
Bargaining (Imma quit if you don't) - More and more people seem to be moving into this camp.
Depression - Evidence of a small number reaching this stage.
Acceptance - At least the greed, hypocrisy, disconnect with the game and players is out in the open now. Was good while it lasted. See you in Acceptance camp soon.
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Kallynda Nai
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:30:00 -
[1645]
Originally by: elnukeo People need to step back and think...
1. can't you get AUR by using isk in game. meaning that if some crazy ship did come out that could only be purchased by AUR wouldnt it be the same as paying for it with isk? making it just like a normal ship on the market?
2. I can understand standings, such as paying off a faction, but SP is a no go.
3. Make the vanity items fairly priced!!
Am i missing somthing?
You are. Where does that "crazy ship" come from?
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Nullity
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:30:00 -
[1646]
Originally by: Vin Hellsing
Originally by: Tali Ambraelle To all the whiners, just shut up and leave then, no one cares. Requesting thread lock.
Disagree with first sentence. Agree with second sentence.
Requesting thread lock +1.
Yes, yes, how dare the rabble be upset over the fact that their hobby is forever changing. Harumph! Ban them all!
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Katra Novac
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:30:00 -
[1647]
Been on the general forum for about 20 hours now, unsubcribed around 14 hours ago.
I don't seem to have an trust left in what CCP say now.
The fact they could not answer if the purchase of SP, faction standing, none vanity items and ready made ships/items was on the table, suggests it was.
That of course might be changed because of the protests over such transactions. But I am left wondering if it is over turned how long will it be before they try again.
Anyway time for some sleep.
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Majuan Shuo
Gallente Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:30:00 -
[1648]
Edited by: Majuan Shuo on 24/06/2011 04:33:30
Originally by: Maziy
Originally by: elnukeo People need to step back and think...
1. can't you get AUR by using isk in game. meaning that if some crazy ship did come out that could only be purchased by AUR wouldnt it be the same as paying for it with isk? making it just like a normal ship on the market?
2. I can understand standings, such as paying off a faction, but SP is a no go.
3. Make the vanity items fairly priced!!
Am i missing somthing?
Yes, you're missing everything.
Painful to read that.
Seriously, go to page one, then two, REREAD page one, then go to three.
Maybe then you'll have some understanding...Right now you are as clueless as Pann was (I am assuming she wised up fairly quick, and BTW, lets not target her: she was clearly forced into this position to be a meatshield) "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Morae
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:31:00 -
[1649]
Originally by: CCP Manifest
Well, a "lot" is an admitted overstatement. I was thinking specifically at the time though of the fact that _some_ people don't realize that NeX stuff on sale now can be purchased with in game ISK through purchasing PLEX.
All NeX purchases trace directly back to actual money spent, regardless of whether or not an ISK conversion took place at some point. If people suddenly ceased purchasing plex, it would soon become impossible to purchase anything from the NeX, and so the fact that it is possible to convert ISK to AUR does not change the fact that NeX purchases are inextricably tied to real money.
It's not that _some_ people don't realize - it's that it isn't relevant.
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Preator Matai
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.24 04:31:00 -
[1650]
I think bottom line that the twits who are in charge.. meaning the development team including the incompetent fool who wrote that newsletter should be the ones HERE front and center answering questions and re-assuring us.
No offense to Pann but this is something that the executives should answer for.. not a PR person. Personally I think you should boot him off the island. He can go live in the Caribbean with the fish. His ass should be fired now, gone.
Anything else is a lie and a waste of time. Do not insult my intelligence CCP.
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