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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Remiel Pollard Devlin Security Devlin Alliance 116	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:54:00 - [91] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Lord Zim wrote: and the introduction of "you do anything illegal in hisec and everyone can shoot you scot free" which'll come dec 4th. I'm guessing that my optimism at CCP eventually realizing what a terrible idea this is and rolling it back is rather misguided... I actually see potential for this to encourage miners to learn to fight back, or at least to defend themselves properly - I can see most people wanting to avoid getting involved instead of playing white-knight anyway. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
Lord Zim 2015	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:56:00 - [92] - Quote Yes. By the time they could possibly realize it's a bad idea, people in hisec will have gotten used to the extra security it provides, and it will then be a nerf, and that brings out the hardcore whiners who are all about nerfs are childish and a cheap way of doing game balance. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if it's already too late, because people in hisec might even be expecting it to the point where they'll consider it a nerf if it was removed before it even hits sisi. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Lord Zim 2015	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:58:00 - [93] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: I actually see potential for this to encourage miners to learn to fight back, or at least to defend themselves properly - I can see most people wanting to avoid getting involved instead of playing white-knight anyway. I think what you'll see is all the people who used to do the whole "wardec random corps/alliances" thing are going to flock to hisec in droves to get in on the free PVP. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
James Amril-Kesh RAZOR Alliance 1291	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:59:00 - [94] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: Lord Zim wrote: and the introduction of "you do anything illegal in hisec and everyone can shoot you scot free" which'll come dec 4th. I'm guessing that my optimism at CCP eventually realizing what a terrible idea this is and rolling it back is rather misguided... I actually see potential for this to encourage miners to learn to fight back, or at least to defend themselves properly You must be right, after all, it's not like they could do any of this before this upcoming patch, or before the changes that outright buffed mining barge and exhumer defenses.
Ch3244 Trojan Legion Fidelas Constans 213	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:03:00 - [95] - Quote you guys suck so bad at eve
Ch3244 Trojan Legion Fidelas Constans 213	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:04:00 - [96] - Quote you guys suck so bad at eve actions have consequences you cant just haul 20b in cargo while auto piloting. lrn2play
Remiel Pollard Devlin Security Devlin Alliance 116	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:06:00 - [97] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: Lord Zim wrote: and the introduction of "you do anything illegal in hisec and everyone can shoot you scot free" which'll come dec 4th. I'm guessing that my optimism at CCP eventually realizing what a terrible idea this is and rolling it back is rather misguided... I actually see potential for this to encourage miners to learn to fight back, or at least to defend themselves properly You must be right, after all, it's not like they could do any of this before this upcoming patch, or before the changes that outright buffed mining barge and exhumer defenses. Don't be sarcastic with me, I'm not a moron and I know there are flaws with the upcoming system - I was merely pointing out how it might encourage more people in high sec to participate in PvP knowing they can shoot at any who has simply misbehaved. Let me point out that I'm not here to take sides with anyone - I'm not defending miners who are incapable of or choose not to defend themselves, I'm merely suggesting a possible upside. There are always pros and cons with situations like this, and analysing them objectively is what gives us a full perspective of the issue. Just taking one side or the other without a clear indication of what the other has to offer is a fool's errand. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
Lorna Mood School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:15:00 - [98] - Quote My objection to hi sec freighter ganking is that it cannot be defended against. Scout ahead? Scout for what exactly? The gankers don't sit in the system, they warp in after the freighter has been bumped to stop it aligning. That's just stupid game mechanics, like knocking a jumbo jet off course by flying a cessna close to it. Don't carry any cargo worth more than a half a billion? Even if that supposedly helps it renders frieghters totally useless as a ship class. Is that by design? I don't think so. I've lost a freighter to this exploit, and yes, using the bumping mechanic to get the kill IS an exploit. I wasn't AFK, yes I CAN afford to lose it, no I'm not stupid and no, I'm not whining about losing a ship, I really don't give a XXXX. I have however still cancelled my accounts as I am not comfortable with the game mechanic that allows a freighter to be killed so easily with zero risk. Flame me all you like about 'rage quitting' but it's nothing like that. If you see what you think is a flaw which spoils a game for you then you stop playing it, no matter what game it is. And no, you can't have my stuff before some highly unoriginal child asks.
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Casoff 440	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:16:00 - [99] - Quote EVE is all p'irate-n because you haul trit-'n fright'er i've been working on that since the thread started i'm a bit tired and been having trouble with it so please be lenient in your criticism if at all possible thanks
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 2000	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:17:00 - [100] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Let me be more specific. How much - in terms of ISK would a mass suicide gank event require per average mack killed, considering losing the gank boats, selling the drops etc? IE what's the "deficit"? I am thinking about sponsoring some Hulkageddon revival but the expense has to be within a budget. 10 to 20 million per mack when attacking them in a 0.7 system which is where most of them live. Hulks need no subsity. Is GS still sponsoring as well? I could toss 2-3B into a "revival", just to spice up Christmas. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Dave stark Black Nova Corp. R O G U E 656	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:17:00 - [101] - Quote Lorna Mood wrote: My objection to hi sec freighter ganking is that it cannot be defended against. Scout ahead? Scout for what exactly? The gankers don't sit in the system, they warp in after the freighter has been bumped to stop it aligning. That's just stupid game mechanics, like knocking a jumbo jet off course by flying a cessna close to it. Don't carry any cargo worth more than a half a billion? Even if that supposedly helps it renders frieghters totally useless as a ship class. Is that by design? I don't think so. I've lost a freighter to this exploit, and yes, using the bumping mechanic to get the kill IS an exploit. I wasn't AFK, yes I CAN afford to lose it, no I'm not stupid and no, I'm not whining about losing a ship, I really don't give a XXXX. I have however still cancelled my accounts as I am not comfortable with the game mechanic that allows a freighter to be killed so easily with zero risk. Flame me all you like about 'rage quitting' but it's nothing like that. If you see what you think is a flaw which spoils a game for you then you stop playing it, no matter what game it is. And no, you can't have my stuff before some highly unoriginal child asks. bumping is not an exploit, it has been stated many times. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold.
Lord Zim 2016	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:20:00 - [102] - Quote Lorna Mood wrote: My objection to hi sec freighter ganking is that it cannot be defended against. Your corpmates can fire upon anyone who aggresses you. You either don't know this, or have chosen to ignore this. Don't worry, CCP is making it so everyone on grid at gates are your escort once retribution hits. Lorna Mood wrote: I've lost a freighter to this exploit, and yes, using the bumping mechanic to get the kill IS an exploit. Nope, it isn't. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Remiel Pollard Devlin Security Devlin Alliance 117	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:20:00 - [103] - Quote Lorna Mood wrote: My objection to hi sec freighter ganking is that it cannot be defended against. Scout ahead? Scout for what exactly? The gankers don't sit in the system, they warp in after the freighter has been bumped to stop it aligning. That's just stupid game mechanics, like knocking a jumbo jet off course by flying a cessna close to it. Don't carry any cargo worth more than a half a billion? Even if that supposedly helps it renders frieghters totally useless as a ship class. Is that by design? I don't think so. I've lost a freighter to this exploit, and yes, using the bumping mechanic to get the kill IS an exploit. I wasn't AFK, yes I CAN afford to lose it, no I'm not stupid and no, I'm not whining about losing a ship, I really don't give a XXXX. I have however still cancelled my accounts as I am not comfortable with the game mechanic that allows a freighter to be killed so easily with zero risk. Flame me all you like about 'rage quitting' but it's nothing like that. If you see what you think is a flaw which spoils a game for you then you stop playing it, no matter what game it is. And no, you can't have my stuff before some highly unoriginal child asks. No, it's not an exploit. Bumping is perfectly legitimate. Also, if you get ganked in high sec, there is not "zero risk" - there is CONCORD. Your attackers risk losing their ships. That's why they call it a suicide gank. Which they won't normally commit to if the rewards don't outweigh the loss they take with the attack. And freighter's aren't cheap to kill. Scouting isn't the only thing you can do - a good scout is also a good escort. Also, learn how to use DOTLAN and check the history of systems on your route. But I'll BET you lost your freighter because you were AFK or on autopilot. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
baltec1 Bat Country 2877	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:22:00 - [104] - Quote Well I for one am very much looking forwards to winter and its all new ways to inflict chaos in high sec.
Xinivrae GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 221	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:23:00 - [105] - Quote Lorna Mood wrote: I've lost a freighter to this exploit, and yes, using the bumping mechanic to get the kill IS an exploit. I'll just leave this here...
Riddick Liddell Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 21	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:23:00 - [106] - Quote Lorna Mood wrote: My objection to hi sec freighter ganking is that it cannot be defended against. Scout ahead? Scout for what exactly? The gankers don't sit in the system, they warp in after the freighter has been bumped to stop it aligning. That's just stupid game mechanics, like knocking a jumbo jet off course by flying a cessna close to it. Don't carry any cargo worth more than a half a billion? Even if that supposedly helps it renders frieghters totally useless as a ship class. Is that by design? I don't think so. I've lost a freighter to this exploit, and yes, using the bumping mechanic to get the kill IS an exploit. I wasn't AFK, yes I CAN afford to lose it, no I'm not stupid and no, I'm not whining about losing a ship, I really don't give a XXXX. I have however still cancelled my accounts as I am not comfortable with the game mechanic that allows a freighter to be killed so easily with zero risk. Flame me all you like about 'rage quitting' but it's nothing like that. If you see what you think is a flaw which spoils a game for you then you stop playing it, no matter what game it is. And no, you can't have my stuff before some highly unoriginal child asks. I feel bad for you. It doesn't help though. I spent 45 minutes getting mauled over by the forum patrol. It was 45 minutes wasted. Keep a look out, maybe things will change. If not, there are plenty of games out there to pass the time.
Lord Zim 2016	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:25:00 - [107] - Quote Riddick Liddell wrote: I feel bad for you. It doesn't help though. I spent 45 minutes getting mauled over by the forum patrol. It was 45 minutes wasted. You mean the "antisocial" and "unemphatic" people who have embraced that EVE is a PVP game to a greater extent than you have? Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Remiel Pollard Devlin Security Devlin Alliance 117	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:29:00 - [108] - Quote Xinivrae wrote: Lorna Mood wrote: I've lost a freighter to this exploit, and yes, using the bumping mechanic to get the kill IS an exploit. I'll just leave this here... Best dev post ever. Seriously.... I'm getting it screenshot, framed, and put on my wall. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
Benny Ohu Chaotic Tranquility Casoff 441	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:30:00 - [109] - Quote when people say 'no risk' in regards to suicide ganking for profit I think what they are usually trying to say is that for the gankers they're able to calculate the number of ships and DPS to almost be assured of a successful gank it's still a wrong thing to say, of course, i imagine it's pretty easy to foul up a gank because three people disconnected halfway through and one was burping the worm when the call went out besides if they took the effort to organise and calculate the odds of success i think they're entitled to a reward also it's possible that the gankers fail because the freighter/barge took some basic precautio- oh
James Amril-Kesh RAZOR Alliance 1292	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:31:00 - [110] - Quote How long does it take for the gankers to show up after your freighter has been bumped? Less than a minute? Because that's exactly how long it takes for your freighter to disappear, assuming you haven't been webbing it (and of course you haven't been).
Dave stark Black Nova Corp. R O G U E 656	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:33:00 - [111] - Quote Benny Ohu wrote: when people say 'no risk' in regards to suicide ganking for profit I think what they are usually trying to say is that for the gankers they're able to calculate the number of ships and DPS to almost be assured of a successful gank it's still a wrong thing to say, of course, i imagine it's pretty easy to foul up a gank because three people disconnected halfway through and one was burping the worm when the call went out besides if they took the effort to organise and calculate the odds of success i think they're entitled to a reward also it's possible that the gankers fail because the freighter/barge took some basic precautio- oh gankers calculate how much dps is needed to take down a freighter, and thus how much loot has to be in a freighter for it to be worth ganking. why can't freighter pilots do the same calculation and then work out how much loot is the limit to carry before they become a space pinata? are freighter pilots unable to do basic mathematics? Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold.
Lord Zim 2016	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:36:00 - [112] - Quote Dave stark wrote: gankers calculate how much dps is needed to take down a freighter, and thus how much loot has to be in a freighter for it to be worth ganking. why can't freighter pilots do the same calculation and then work out how much loot is the limit to carry before they become a space pinata? are freighter pilots unable to do basic mathematics? Do the same line of reasoning for mining barges, and see how that worked out. You can probably assume that the same thing is going to happen for freighters. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Ghazu 281	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:37:00 - [113] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: baltec1 wrote: Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Let me be more specific. How much - in terms of ISK would a mass suicide gank event require per average mack killed, considering losing the gank boats, selling the drops etc? IE what's the "deficit"? I am thinking about sponsoring some Hulkageddon revival but the expense has to be within a budget. 10 to 20 million per mack when attacking them in a 0.7 system which is where most of them live. Hulks need no subsity. Is GS still sponsoring as well? I could toss 2-3B into a "revival", just to spice up Christmas. oh 2-3 b only? you can easily Madoff like 2-3 t. http://www.minerbumping.com/
Dave stark Black Nova Corp. R O G U E 656	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:39:00 - [114] - Quote Lord Zim wrote: Dave stark wrote: gankers calculate how much dps is needed to take down a freighter, and thus how much loot has to be in a freighter for it to be worth ganking. why can't freighter pilots do the same calculation and then work out how much loot is the limit to carry before they become a space pinata? are freighter pilots unable to do basic mathematics? Do the same line of reasoning for mining barges, and see how that worked out. You can probably assume that the same thing is going to happen for freighters. i'm not so sure. mining barges needed rebalancing, regardless of hulkageddon and ganking. also the crucial difference is that an EMPTY exhumer was profitable to gank. is an empty freighter profitable to gank? there are some subtle but important differences. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold.
Lorna Mood School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 2	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:42:00 - [115] - Quote Xinivrae wrote: Lorna Mood wrote: I've lost a freighter to this exploit, and yes, using the bumping mechanic to get the kill IS an exploit. I'll just leave this here... I am fully aware that is not against the rules so the use of the word "exploit" was probably misleading. What I meant is that being able to bump a freighter with a ship the size of a spec of dust is quitely frankly ludicrous and it's this game mechanic that needs looking at. I'm not in any way suggesting making hi sec 'safer' or stopping anyones fun who wants to shoot things.
UAxSunShine Ministry of War Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:43:00 - [116] - Quote When will people learn not to carry anything more than the value of the ship they are transporting in it? It's basic eve stuff I learnt it within a month of playing. People who don't follow this rule deserve to loose their stuff and have no right to complain. Don't be lazy and you keep your stuff It's a pretty simply philosophy that helps you keep your stuff. Also people carrying plex are the lowest forms of life currently playing the game. If you don't know how to transport plex with out any risk by the time you're in a freighter you should probably consider biomassing your character. Another point for you crazy people who insist on being lazy. Buy a jump freighter, lowest risk in the game, all you need is a cyno alt and a few braincells, however if you agree with the OP you're probably lacking in both of those areas.
Arduemont Rotten Legion Ops 689	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:44:00 - [117] - Quote I own a freighter and have frequently moved billions of ISK worth of stuff with it. Never lost one. If your freighters died, they died either in Niarja or Uedema. In other words use a scout through those two systems. Very very few people suicide ganks freighters anywhere else. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice."
Lord Zim 2016	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:45:00 - [118] - Quote Dave stark wrote: i'm not so sure. mining barges needed rebalancing, regardless of hulkageddon and ganking. also the crucial difference is that an EMPTY exhumer was profitable to gank. is an empty freighter profitable to gank? there are some subtle but important differences. While it's true a hulk was profitably gankable while empty, it was easy as all hell to make it unprofitable to gank by fitting a few mods. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
baltec1 Bat Country 2879	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:45:00 - [119] - Quote Dave stark wrote: i'm not so sure. mining barges needed rebalancing, regardless of hulkageddon and ganking. also the crucial difference is that an EMPTY exhumer was profitable to gank. is an empty freighter profitable to gank? there are some subtle but important differences. Barges were only profitable if they fitted no tank and full rack of t2 mining lasers and MLU. Just about every subcap can be ganked for profit if they fit no tank and have a t2 fitting.
Remiel Pollard Devlin Security Devlin Alliance 118	Posted - 2012.11.18 13:46:00 - [120] - Quote Lorna Mood wrote: Xinivrae wrote: Lorna Mood wrote: I've lost a freighter to this exploit, and yes, using the bumping mechanic to get the kill IS an exploit. I'll just leave this here... I am fully aware that is not against the rules so the use of the word "exploit" was probably misleading. What I meant is that being able to bump a freighter with a ship the size of a spec of dust is quitely frankly ludicrous and it's this game mechanic that needs looking at. I'm not in any way suggesting making hi sec 'safer' or stopping anyones fun who wants to shoot things. It's EVE-Physics, not real physics. The whole ship-banking and having a level up-and-down is ludicrous too, as is the lack of inertia when you wind the engines down. There's a lot of things in the game that in reality don't make sense. Fortunately, it's a game, and it's fictional, which means the devs can use whatever physics they want to use. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.

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