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Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 42	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:14:00 - [61] - Quote This thread delivers . CCP Greyscale should fix double wrapping rather sooner than later, since he already decided he would do so eventually.
Riddick Liddell Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 21	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:14:00 - [62] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Riddick Liddell wrote: Lord Zim wrote: tldr: long winded rant about angry entitlements No You hide behind this illusion that EVE is going to become some evil carebear incarnation of itself. It will be Hello Kitty and Trammel and all this other alarmist, drama queen nonsense. All to justify antisocial behavior in a virtual world because you lack fundamental empathy required to see you are wasting someone elses time. Don't let the door smack you in the ass. You must be mad. Lose a freighter lately? No Never Goons have never taken a ship from me and they won't. This is about empathy. About seeing the frustration they cause other people. I know it's unimaginable in a game like EVE but it really isn't about me.
baltec1 Bat Country 2873	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:16:00 - [63] - Quote Riddick Liddell wrote: No Never Goons have never taken a ship from me and they won't. This is about empathy. About seeing the frustration they cause other people. I know it's unimaginable in a game like EVE but it really isn't about me. In a game in which you can be a pirate why are you so shocked there are pirates?
Lord Zim 2013	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:17:00 - [64] - Quote Riddick Liddell wrote: No Never Goons have never taken a ship from me and they won't. This is about empathy. About seeing the frustration they cause other people. I know it's unimaginable in a game like EVE but it really isn't about me. Say it. "If you gank someone in a PVP game, you're a mean and evil person and you should be locked up in an insane asylum for your anti-social behavior". Say it. Go on, say it. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 2000	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:19:00 - [65] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Ioci wrote: Is there something I should know about your account? I fly megathrons and am a member of one of EVEs most destructive terrorist organisations. I can also provide some rather fun numbers on high sec ganking ativities and I am one of a number of Bat scientists working on the next high sec campain. What would make your corp return ganking barges again? Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Riddick Liddell Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 21	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:20:00 - [66] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Riddick Liddell wrote: No Never Goons have never taken a ship from me and they won't. This is about empathy. About seeing the frustration they cause other people. I know it's unimaginable in a game like EVE but it really isn't about me. In a game in which you can be a pirate why are you so shocked there are pirates? Pirates were shot on sight. You fail to see the point in High Security space. You are a pirate? Why are you there? Lord Zim wrote: Say it. "If you gank someone in a PVP game, you're a mean and evil person and you should be locked up in an insane asylum for your anti-social behavior". Say it. Go on, say it. Speaking of blowing things out of proportion. No, I just don't think you belong in this game. You damage its potential.
Alara IonStorm 3504	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:20:00 - [67] - Quote Riddick Liddell wrote: No Never Goons have never taken a ship from me and they won't. This is about empathy. About seeing the frustration they cause other people. I know it's unimaginable in a game like EVE but it really isn't about me. So instead of teaching people how not to lose ships or how to be financially secure with a lose in a game where with the right asset management you can survive and prosper you instead want to nerf that aspect of the game. EVE is Darwin on Crack in Space Battleships in a War with a 1000 Player Factions and 4 Empires. There are other games that offer stuff that isn't EVE. Riddick Liddell wrote: Pirates were shot on sight. You fail to see the point in High Security space. You are a pirate? Why are you there? The Green Zone in Iraq was safe, why are there Mortors landing?... People get robbed in first world nations too, they just removed Death as a thing that can happen to victims and assailants and incarceration as a Penalty. That is why we have a Chaos filled warzone, Central Africa 10 Years Ago with Laser Space Boats.
Remiel Pollard Devlin Security Devlin Alliance 111	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:20:00 - [68] - Quote Riddick Liddell wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Riddick Liddell wrote: Lord Zim wrote: tldr: long winded rant about angry entitlements No You hide behind this illusion that EVE is going to become some evil carebear incarnation of itself. It will be Hello Kitty and Trammel and all this other alarmist, drama queen nonsense. All to justify antisocial behavior in a virtual world because you lack fundamental empathy required to see you are wasting someone elses time. Don't let the door smack you in the ass. You must be mad. Lose a freighter lately? No Never Goons have never taken a ship from me and they won't. This is about empathy. About seeing the frustration they cause other people. I know it's unimaginable in a game like EVE but it really isn't about me. Then, for one, why do you care? Secondly, Goons have never bothered me. Thirdly... I know it's unimaginable in a game like EVE, but Goons are players too, and have the exact same mechanics available to them as every other player. FYI, my corp has a freighter pilot who runs stuff in and out of Jita frequently - specifically, a Charon. He's never lost the ship, not once. He's been attacked, even webbed, but never once lost the ship. He's flown the same one coming up on about 3 or 4 months now. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
baltec1 Bat Country 2873	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:23:00 - [69] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: baltec1 wrote: Ioci wrote: Is there something I should know about your account? I fly megathrons and am a member of one of EVEs most destructive terrorist organisations. I can also provide some rather fun numbers on high sec ganking ativities and I am one of a number of Bat scientists working on the next high sec campain. What would make your corp return ganking barges again? Macks need to have their tank reduced to that of the hulk. Still very tankable but if you fit nothing we can make enough of a profit to make it last over a long enough timescale to make our isk.
Lord Zim 2013	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:25:00 - [70] - Quote Riddick Liddell wrote: Pirates were shot on sight. You fail to see the point in High Security space. You are a pirate? Why are you there? Interestingly, they do get shot. Have you ever seen a gank in hisec where the pirates didn't get shot? I think you're missing the point of hisec, where it's supposed to be high security, not perfect security. Riddick Liddell wrote: No, I just don't think you belong in this game. You damage its potential. No, I do not. You damage it far more than I do, since you're actually under the illusion hisec is supposed to be perfectly safe, and by god you will whine until CCP caters to you. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
baltec1 Bat Country 2875	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:26:00 - [71] - Quote Riddick Liddell wrote: Pirates were shot on sight. You fail to see the point in High Security space. You are a pirate? Why are you there? No I think it is you who does not get high security space. Highsec is not ment to be 100% safe. As to why we are in high sec? Well good sir, we are are pirates and we want all of that isk.
Riddick Liddell Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 21	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:28:00 - [72] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Then, for one, why do you care? Secondly, Goons have never bothered me. Thirdly... I know it's unimaginable in a game like EVE, but Goons are players too, and have the exact same mechanics available to them as every other player. FYI, my corp has a freighter pilot who runs stuff in and out of Jita frequently - specifically, a Charon. He's never lost the ship, not once. He's been attacked, even webbed, but never once lost the ship. He's flown the same one coming up on about 3 or 4 months now. Most Goons never leave Deklein. I have no issue with them. I'd have no issue if they chased me out of Deklein. I wouldn't have an issue if they chased me out of some low sec system in Khanid space. Why do I care? I've been playing for 7 years. I like EVE. I like it rough and tumble. I just have enough self control to moderate my bad behavior. It's called being an adult.
Alara IonStorm 3505	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:29:00 - [73] - Quote Lord Zim wrote: No, I do not. You damage it far more than I do, since you're actually under the illusion hisec is supposed to be perfectly safe, and by god you will whine until CCP caters to you. I wish the old Super Mario game had Dev's. There was this one level where I always died because there was one space of land between two long pits and I usually fell over the edge. If Mario had Dev's I could just complain until they move the winning flag right in front of that post. Maybe also start me off at least Big every level.
Remiel Pollard Devlin Security Devlin Alliance 112	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:30:00 - [74] - Quote Lord Zim wrote: Have you ever seen a gank in hisec where the pirates didn't get shot? Actually, yes, I have. The Talos pilot was afk, and the Thrasher came in and flipped one of his wrecks, then did this. Then I congratulated him on a smooth kill, and he flew away - I had front row seats to the whole thing orbiting in a Breacher at kiting range just incase he came after me. Serves him right IMHO. AFKers getting ganked is not a huge loss, and they have nothing to complain about if they're AFK when they come under attack. SAME GOES FOR AFK FREIGHTER PILOTS ON AP. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
Lord Zim 2015	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:30:00 - [75] - Quote Riddick Liddell wrote: Why do I care? I've been playing for 7 years. I like EVE. I like it rough and tumble. I just have enough self control to moderate my bad behavior. It's called being an adult. You know, if you actually wanted to pretend you're "an adult", you would be mature enough to see EVE for what it is, i.e. a dark and harsh world where unconsented PVP happens even in hisec. Notice the word "high" in hisec, not "perfect". Suck it up. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 2000	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:32:00 - [76] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: baltec1 wrote: Ioci wrote: Is there something I should know about your account? I fly megathrons and am a member of one of EVEs most destructive terrorist organisations. I can also provide some rather fun numbers on high sec ganking ativities and I am one of a number of Bat scientists working on the next high sec campain. What would make your corp return ganking barges again? Macks need to have their tank reduced to that of the hulk. Still very tankable but if you fit nothing we can make enough of a profit to make it last over a long enough timescale to make our isk. Let me be more specific. How much - in terms of ISK would a mass suicide gank event require per average mack killed, considering losing the gank boats, selling the drops etc? IE what's the "deficit"? I am thinking about sponsoring some Hulkageddon revival but the expense has to be within a budget. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Remiel Pollard Devlin Security Devlin Alliance 112	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:34:00 - [77] - Quote Riddick Liddell wrote: Most Goons never leave Deklein. I have no issue with them. I'd have no issue if they chased me out of Deklein. I wouldn't have an issue if they chased me out of some low sec system in Khanid space. Why do I care? I've been playing for 7 years. I like EVE. I like it rough and tumble. I just have enough self control to moderate my bad behavior. It's called being an adult. How one plays this game does not in any way reflect their maturity levels. Let's not go making that mistake. There is no such thing as "bad behaviour" in New Eden - it as an alternate virtual reality that has no bearing on the real world. If you want to make passive references to someone else's RL maturity without knowing anything about them to begin with, then I would suggest it is you that has some growing up to do. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
Riddick Liddell Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 21	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:35:00 - [78] - Quote Lord Zim wrote: Riddick Liddell wrote: Why do I care? I've been playing for 7 years. I like EVE. I like it rough and tumble. I just have enough self control to moderate my bad behavior. It's called being an adult. You know, if you actually wanted to pretend you're "an adult", you would be mature enough to see EVE for what it is, i.e. a dark and harsh world where unconsented PVP happens even in hisec. Notice the word "high" in hisec, not "perfect". Suck it up. And I still make more sense than you, clinging to this half baked idea that EVE can work when people don't use self control to restrict the damage they do. I'm out numbered here, being ganked in to the ground and while I do care, not enough to fight battles CCP have chosen not to fight. If it's OK with them, it's OK with me. You still missed the point in me debating you. Maybe EVE is healthy as a horse. If so, carry on. Maybe this is what they want.
James Amril-Kesh RAZOR Alliance 1291	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:37:00 - [79] - Quote I don't really get what all the hubbub is about Goons, anyway. Goons never shot at me until I became their ally.
baltec1 Bat Country 2877	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:37:00 - [80] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Let me be more specific. How much - in terms of ISK would a mass suicide gank event require per average mack killed, considering losing the gank boats, selling the drops etc? IE what's the "deficit"? I am thinking about sponsoring some Hulkageddon revival but the expense has to be within a budget. 10 to 20 million per mack when attacking them in a 0.7 system which is where most of them live. Hulks need no subsity.
Alara IonStorm 3508	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:38:00 - [81] - Quote Riddick Liddell wrote: I've been playing for 7 years. I like EVE. I like it rough and tumble. I just have enough self control to moderate my bad behavior. It's called being an adult. I just have enough basic intelligence to be sensible in what I risk so as not be bothered or effected by attackers. If everyone had that then problem solved. For the minority who don't, I would rather not have the Devs move the goal post and lose the people who take time to plan things out. There are a bunch of games for the few idiots where everybody is a winner, EVE is for the sensible. Not even the smart, just the sensible.
baltec1 Bat Country 2877	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:38:00 - [82] - Quote Riddick Liddell wrote: And I still make more sense than you, clinging to this half baked idea that EVE can work when people don't use self control to restrict the damage they do. I'm out numbered here, being ganked in to the ground and while I do care, not enough to fight battles CCP have chosen not to fight. If it's OK with them, it's OK with me. You still missed the point in me debating you. Maybe EVE is healthy as a horse. If so, carry on. Maybe this is what they want. Its worked for the past decade so I am willing to bet it will continue to work.
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H. 82	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:39:00 - [83] - Quote I still don't see why CCP hasn't tried to remove Security Status gain from 0.0 ( and possibly hi-sec ). There really is no reason why CONCORD should lower your sec for destroying ships in high security space, only to reward it back when you go to kill rats in lawless 0.0 space. Now if people had to regain their sec by ratting in low-sec instead ( where CONCORD actually needs you ), there'd be a bit of consequence for their unlawful behavior in hi-sec, and a bit more activity in low-sec
Remiel Pollard Devlin Security Devlin Alliance 116	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:39:00 - [84] - Quote Riddick Liddell wrote: Lord Zim wrote: Riddick Liddell wrote: Why do I care? I've been playing for 7 years. I like EVE. I like it rough and tumble. I just have enough self control to moderate my bad behavior. It's called being an adult. You know, if you actually wanted to pretend you're "an adult", you would be mature enough to see EVE for what it is, i.e. a dark and harsh world where unconsented PVP happens even in hisec. Notice the word "high" in hisec, not "perfect". Suck it up. And I still make more sense than you, clinging to this half baked idea that EVE can work when people don't use self control to restrict the damage they do. I'm out numbered here, being ganked in to the ground and while I do care, not enough to fight battles CCP have chosen not to fight. If it's OK with them, it's OK with me. You still missed the point in me debating you. Maybe EVE is healthy as a horse. If so, carry on. Maybe this is what they want. You don't get it - self-control has nothing to do with it. What you seem to be failing to realise is that when one commits to a suicide gank in high sec space, one is in complete 100% self-control. The only person losing control here is the one that's making references to others' mental states and maturity levels based on how they choose to operate within a virtual sandbox that has no consequences in the real world. Makes me wonder how you feel about people who play Grand Theft Auto - do you suppose they have "self-control" when they go for that six-star wanted level by popping a couple of virtual old ladies on the side of the road? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
Lord Zim 2015	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:40:00 - [85] - Quote Riddick Liddell wrote: And I still make more sense than you, clinging to this half baked idea that EVE can work when people don't use self control to restrict the damage they do. So you're saying the people who are ganking freighters are ganking freighters willy-nilly and with no self control? Riddick Liddell wrote: I'm out numbered here, being ganked in to the ground and while I do care, not enough to fight battles CCP have chosen not to fight. What do you mean, CCP have chosen not to fight? They've buffed concord numerous times over the years, and on dec 4th they're going to extend the possible protection detail from "just" the corp to the everyone who's nearby. Riddick Liddell wrote: If it's OK with them, it's OK with me. You still missed the point in me debating you. Maybe EVE is healthy as a horse. If so, carry on. Maybe this is what they want. EVE isn't healthy as a horse, but that certainly isn't because hisec is "too unsafe". Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
James Amril-Kesh RAZOR Alliance 1290	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:42:00 - [86] - Quote Alara IonStorm wrote: I just have enough intelligence to not be bothered or effected by attackers. If everyone had that then problem solved. For the minority who don't, I would rather not have the Devs move the goal post and lose the people who take time to plan things out. They've already done this. They're fully capable and probably wiliing to do it again.
Lord Zim 2015	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:45:00 - [87] - Quote Alara IonStorm wrote: If everyone had that then problem solved. For the minority who don't, I would rather not have the Devs move the goal post and lose the people who take time to plan things out. There are a bunch of games for the few idiots where everybody is a winner, EVE is for the sensible. Not even the smart, just the sensible. You would think so, but CCP is heading down the path of Trammel with the buffs to mining barges and the introduction of "you do anything illegal in hisec and everyone can shoot you scot free" which'll come dec 4th. I'm sure even that won't be enough for a lot of people, though. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Remiel Pollard Devlin Security Devlin Alliance 116	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:46:00 - [88] - Quote The bottom line here is that freighter pilots need to get their **** sorted and adapt - stop flying on AP; stop flying AFK on AP; start setting bookmarks; stop using the automated route planner and start planning your own routes; randomise your routes and never fly the same one on the return trip; stop carrying plex; start using scouts and escorts. Those, amongst dozens of other steps you can take to protect yourself in transit, are what will solve your problems, freighter pilots. Not putting you in more cotton wool when in high sec systems. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
Preceptor Stigmartyr Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation 3	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:46:00 - [89] - Quote GIMME DAT TRIT GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ GûæGûæGòöGòÉGòùGòªGòöGòªGòùGòöGòÉGûæGûæGûæ GûæGûæGòáGòÉGòúGòæGûæGòæGûæGòáGòÉGûæGûæGûæ GûæGûæGòÜGòÉGò¥Gò¬GûæGò¬GûæGòÜGòÉGûæGûæGûæ GûæGûæGòöGòªGòùGòªGûæGòªGòöGòÉGûæGûæGûæGûæ GûæGûæGûæGòæGûæGòáGòÉGòúGòáGòÉGûæGûæGûæGûæ GûæGûæGûæGò¬GûæGò¬GûæGò¬GòÜGòÉGûæGûæGûæGûæ GòöGòÉGòùGòªGòöGûæGòöGûæGòöGòÉGòùGòªGûæGòª GòáGòÉGò¥GòæGòæGûæGòæGûæGòæGûæGòæGòæGòæGòæ Gò¬GûæGûæGò¬GòÜGòÉGòÜGòÉGòÜGòÉGò¥GòÜGò¬Gò¥ GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ WE'RE GOING IN DRY! 4/27 NEVER FORGET-áa¦á_a¦á
James Amril-Kesh RAZOR Alliance 1291	Posted - 2012.11.18 12:51:00 - [90] - Quote Lord Zim wrote: and the introduction of "you do anything illegal in hisec and everyone can shoot you scot free" which'll come dec 4th. I'm guessing that my optimism at CCP eventually realizing what a terrible idea this is and rolling it back is rather misguided...

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