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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
1153
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 21:38:00 -
[361] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:As for CCP declaring they don't have the resources; they managed to build a decent prototype in less than six months between Inferno and Crucible. So CCP said, we don't have the resources to do the things we've already proved we do have the resources to do. And that team only had 2 people on it. Did that detract from the purely FiS expansions that you probably thought were only good because CCP didn't bother with WiS stuff? I'll bet you 20% of CCP staff that it did. www.minerbumping.com - because your tears are delicious |
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
162
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 21:39:00 -
[362] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Seriously, you're still phrasing the question wrong. Given the current situation of CCP resources, in which CCP Unifex clearly laid out that WiS cannot be developed concurrently without sacrificing FiS to some degree (enough of one to make them decide to shelve WiS for the time being), the question HAS to be "would you support development of WiS at the expense of FiS?". Anything less than that is just dishonest polling.
No, it doesn't, because the presupposition built into your question is that FiS requires the full attention of 200 people. If you ask, "is the shipping game in a good enough state to turn a significant amount of developer attention to a major new feature?" you're closer to the mark.
I gather that the answer to that question last summer was "no," for a great many reasons. (I wasn't there personally, hence the qualification.) CCP Unifex has said that the answer right now is also "no," and I agree. CCP is absolutely right to take some serious time to fix parts of the game that have languished, in some cases, for nearly a decade. It's hard to build on the game-as-is when the game-as-is has lots of old, brittle and badly-functioning code. So I support the current direction because I want to see the promise of Incarna fulfilled, and I believe it will be much easier for CCP to fulfill it when the ships are rebalanced, and the stations we're supposed to be walking in have shiny new code. It will help if the corp, industry and PI interfaces don't provoke SAN loss, and they finally deliver on the promise of Dominion.
Once CCP has caught up on their backlog, we can talk major new features like Incarna. But I've noticed that they've been steadily tweaking the avatar and CQ rendering and the character creator. They've definitely been working on that part of the game. They just haven't made any major (publicly disclosed) push in that direction. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
781
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 21:39:00 -
[363] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Arduemont wrote:As for CCP declaring they don't have the resources; they managed to build a decent prototype in less than six months between Inferno and Crucible. So CCP said, we don't have the resources to do the things we've already proved we do have the resources to do. And that team only had 2 people on it. Did that detract from the purely FiS expansions that you probably thought were only good because CCP didn't bother with WiS stuff? I'll bet you 20% of CCP staff that it did.
Lost track of the time? That was almost a year after they lost their staff. As such you owe CCP 20% of the total of their joint salaries to hire them more staff. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
1153
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 21:44:00 -
[364] - Quote
Ignore causality much? www.minerbumping.com - because your tears are delicious |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
603
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 21:45:00 -
[365] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Now your just trolling. I'm not declaring myself any more competent than you claim to be in this discussion. Your just running out of good arguments and have to resort to trying to belittle me. Nice work.
As for CCP declaring they don't have the resources; they managed to build a prototype in less than six months between Inferno and Crucible. So CCP said, we don't have the resources to do the things we've already proved we do have the resources to do. And that team only had 2 people on it. Did that detract from the purely FiS expansions that you probably thought were only good because CCP didn't bother with WiS stuff? and find out.
When I say things like "CCP doesn't have the resources", i'm not assessing a situation, I'm not guessing. CCP Unifex literally told us that they do not. In no uncertain terms. There was no vagueness or maybes, it was straight-up "we can't do one without taking from another, so the new thing gets temporarily shelved". That's straight from a senior producer. You'll pardon me if his information on the matter is a hell of a lot more trustworthy than you saying "well they did a thing in X months therefore".
What are you even saying? CCP Unifex is wrong? Remember, not only does he have the benefit of actually knowing what the production would entail (unlike any of us), he's making the decision with considerations we don't have to make, what with this being his job and all. They're the ones with money and livelihoods on the line, so to look their decision in the eye and say "NUH-UH YOU TOTALLY COULD" is as ridiculous as it gets. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
781
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 21:47:00 -
[366] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:They're the ones with money and livelihoods on the line, so to look their decision in the eye and say "NUH-UH YOU TOTALLY COULD" is as ridiculous as it gets.
You miss my point, I'm not saying they could have. I am saying they did, and I happen to be right.
KrakizBad wrote:Ignore causality much? So your saying that CCP lost staff, because they put 2 people to work on a prototype... after the staff was already lost.
Do you even understand how time works? "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
1846
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 21:53:00 -
[367] - Quote
The problem isn't that CCP doesn't have the resources to make it happen, they do, but as Snow Axe has pointed out, they can't do one without taking from the other. In order to finish WiS they will need to take a lot of people away from FiS. Personally...I don't think this is a bad thing at all. Yes...EvE is a game about spaceships...but it will be an even better game about spaceships when we have WiS finished in a proper manner with some relevant gameplay added to it. The more diversity we have in EvE the longer EvE will last and the more people will play. Both of these are essential to the success of EvE and CCP as a whole.
The way I see it, CCP has done some great work recently focusing on fixing the core game, balancing ships, reworking graphics, and fixing all the annoying little bugs that are out there. If they can get the ship balance and V3 work completed which will likely take another year or two, then they should take the time to finish WiS. FiS players should have nothing to ***** about by that point and if they do...**** em. Let them ***** and let CCP finish WiS so EvE can be closer to the sci fi simulation they dream it to be, something it CAN'T be without WiS. EVE is not about PvP.-á EVE is about the SANDBOX! |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
1153
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 21:56:00 -
[368] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Snow Axe wrote:They're the ones with money and livelihoods on the line, so to look their decision in the eye and say "NUH-UH YOU TOTALLY COULD" is as ridiculous as it gets. You miss my point, I'm not saying they could have. I am saying they did, and I happen to be right. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajnxq65D220^^ Developed whilst Inferno was in production. KrakizBad wrote:Ignore causality much? So your saying that CCP lost staff, because they put 2 people to work on a prototype... after the staff was already lost.Do you even understand how time works? I'm sorry you're so confused. But keep talking about how everyone wants Space Barbie, I'm sure that will work. www.minerbumping.com - because your tears are delicious |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
603
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 21:58:00 -
[369] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:You miss my point, I'm not saying they could have. I am saying they did, and I happen to be right.
And what I'm telling you is they used the information from said prototype development to make the decision of whether or not they could fully realize WiS with their current resources. They decided they could not. Brinigng up the prototype doesn't really help your argument at all.
"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
781
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 21:59:00 -
[370] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote: I'm sorry you're so confused. But keep talking about how everyone wants Space Barbie, I'm sure that will work.
Hahaha. I'm confused? Again, resorting to belittlement because there is nothing you can say otherwise that wont make you look more like an idiot. Actually, what you just did there made you look more like an idiot. I suppose it could have been worse, you could have tried to defend the notion that things that happen in the future somehow change the past. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
770
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 22:04:00 -
[371] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:Toku Jiang wrote:I think I have actually done the WiS thing once just to see what it was, I then quickly changed the option to not load the WiS. If they pull it out of the client, I'm perfectly fine with that I think pretty much everyone has the CQ disabled at this point. It's not a valid representation of the kind of WiS this thread is about. Even those who support WiS would agree the CQ is pointless.
in have it sometimes on ,sometimes not at this moment But even on that 1 room ,CCP promises and don,t deliver. Team Absent asked in features and ideas about ideas what to do with that one room. A lot of nice ideas came up ,like the ones to give those useless screens some function. They gave a lot of people ,the idea that they ware working on Avatar content. but i think CCP likes to promise and then hide it out and have a good laugh about it.
R.S.I2014
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
770
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 22:06:00 -
[372] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Arduemont wrote:Snow Axe wrote:They're the ones with money and livelihoods on the line, so to look their decision in the eye and say "NUH-UH YOU TOTALLY COULD" is as ridiculous as it gets. You miss my point, I'm not saying they could have. I am saying they did, and I happen to be right. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajnxq65D220^^ Developed whilst Inferno was in production. KrakizBad wrote:Ignore causality much? So your saying that CCP lost staff, because they put 2 people to work on a prototype... after the staff was already lost.Do you even understand how time works? I'm sorry you're so confused. But keep talking about how everyone wants Space Barbie, I'm sure that will work.
i am sure there is a cure for that barbie obsession of yours R.S.I2014
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
8
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Posted - 2012.11.28 22:20:00 -
[373] - Quote
People, keep this thread civil and on topic!
No posts have been deleted or edited yet, but I have to urge you to stop making personal attacks on people who happen to have a different view point on the topic at hand.
Please consider this a warning. ISD Ezwal Ensign Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1184
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 23:10:00 -
[374] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:Toku Jiang wrote:I think I have actually done the WiS thing once just to see what it was, I then quickly changed the option to not load the WiS. If they pull it out of the client, I'm perfectly fine with that I think pretty much everyone has the CQ disabled at this point. It's not a valid representation of the kind of WiS this thread is about. Even those who support WiS would agree the CQ is pointless. Actually there was a poll thread a month or two ago. About half the respondents had it on. I tend to play a female alt most of the time these days, so I have it on simply because she is a better view than her Domi. Also, the hangar view is rather pointless as well. All you can do is spin and watch a counter go up. Maybe thats the code that should be pulled. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
468
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 01:28:00 -
[375] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Mars Theran wrote:You're argument is flawed in that you are generalizing players sharing your own position with regard to an argument which clearly has 2 or more sides as represented by a small portion of the playerbase. You can't possibly argue effectively on that logic, when you are suggesting the people you are arguing with share your position with regard to the subject of the argument.
Only if they were lying, would that be possible. I'm not arguing any point, I'm telling you what is literally happening with WiS right now. I'll link CCP Unifex's exact quote: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2023395#post2023395CCP Unifex wrote:The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space. To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, IGÇÖm looking at you).
So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. That's about as straightforward as he can get without cartoons. You may think it's dishonest of me to frame the WiS argument in real terms (i.e. is it worth taking manpower away from other areas of the game?), but that's the reality of the situation, clearly outlined by CCP Unifex right there. They don't have the manpower to give WiS the attention it deserves without taking away from other areas, and that's not something they're willing to do. It doesn't exactly take a Nostradamus type to figure out WHY they're not willing to do that.
I appreciate your argument, but it seems you are forgetting that a number of players believe any focus on WiS is too much, and the reality that if it is being developed, those players will see that as impacting the development of FiS, even if CCP were to hire another 400 people to work on it and additional features for FiS too.
That argument was laid out a long time ago, and it result in CCP downsizing and losing a good portion of their development team. Without it being acceptable for them to work on WiS from a particular group of players perspective, they had ne need of those extra staff, so the were cut.
At least, that's what I gathered at the time, and I believe it also had something to do with the NEx being trashed so heavily when revenues from that would have helped pay for development. Even with all those extra staff on the development team, players believed that they should all focus on FiS.
You see what I'm getting at? It will never be acceptable in any degree for those particular members of the player base.
This is why I take CCP Unifex's post with a grain of salt. I know there is a very good chance he is just trying to placate that crowd and keep them from opening the gates of hell again, while trying to keep the hope alive for others that it might still happen one day. Maybe it will, if those players are finally satisfied.
They never will be of course, as it goes against their nature to be satisfied with anything. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
604
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 02:26:00 -
[376] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:You see what I'm getting at? It will never be acceptable in any degree for those particular members of the player base.
This is why I take CCP Unifex's post with a grain of salt. I know there is a very good chance he is just trying to placate that crowd and keep them from opening the gates of hell again, while trying to keep the hope alive for others that it might still happen one day. Maybe it will, if those players are finally satisfied.
They never will be of course, as it goes against their nature to be satisfied with anything.
Oh I absolutely agree that at some point WiS will be at least seriously attempted again. That's why I quoted his last sentence - he wants to do it, CCP wants to do it, and this time around they'll know better than to think about a new revenue stream above gameplay.
That being said, I don't think his stance is about placation, it's about acknowledging the very real baggage they have post-Incarna. They screwed that up so unbelievably bad that it effectively angered everyone - both the people who saw the FiS game suffer during development, and the WiS people who were no doubt hugely let down by the complete lack of everything outside of a doll to buy accessories for. They really can't afford to half-ass either part of the game anymore, and I think this hardline decision is reflecting that. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
770
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 03:51:00 -
[377] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Mars Theran wrote:You see what I'm getting at? It will never be acceptable in any degree for those particular members of the player base.
This is why I take CCP Unifex's post with a grain of salt. I know there is a very good chance he is just trying to placate that crowd and keep them from opening the gates of hell again, while trying to keep the hope alive for others that it might still happen one day. Maybe it will, if those players are finally satisfied.
They never will be of course, as it goes against their nature to be satisfied with anything. Oh I absolutely agree that at some point WiS will be at least seriously attempted again. That's why I quoted his last sentence - he wants to do it, CCP wants to do it, and this time around they'll know better than to think about a new revenue stream above gameplay. That being said, I don't think his stance is about placation, it's about acknowledging the very real baggage they have post-Incarna. They screwed that up so unbelievably bad that it effectively angered everyone - both the people who saw the FiS game suffer during development, and the WiS people who were no doubt hugely let down by the complete lack of everything outside of a doll to buy accessories for. They really can't afford to half-ass either part of the game anymore, and I think this hardline decision is reflecting that.
Most of the players were content with the decision that there was a need to put recourses more on the flying part in this game. But people who do Fly in space and also liked WIS were happy with only a few devs continuing on some Avatar stuff. At least ,they were happy ,with the promise of that. But there are people in this community ,who are never satisfied enough. Even the few Devs they had on team Absent had to do other things.
This resulted in a few hope giving promises
Prototyping ,there is nothing to show for CQ, asked by the devs for ideas on extra functionality,they never touched it. Tattoos ,nothing done with it.
When Team Avatar was announced ,those devs kept working on other things. A good example is CCP Karkur(no attack ,she did nice things )
i can reflect on a decision,but don,t give hope on something you won,t do
therefore Team Avatar is Team Absent
R.S.I2014
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Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
604
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 04:21:00 -
[378] - Quote
They never promised any kind of deadline, ever. There's a reason for that.
The prototyping for example has plenty to show for it - it gave them a good idea of what they could conceivably do and how much effort it would take. This is a necessary step when you're trying to determine whether or not you're going to do a thing now or later. The nice part is, the work and lessons they took from the prototyping could be documented and used again in the future, either by the same people or say, if they take a big step and expand their dev team to work on it.
I personally don't give a **** about WiS one way or the other, but that their prototypes and work seemed focused on actual gameplay experiences is a huge positive, and it's one that any WiS supporter should be happy about. It's just also important to be realistic about what a huge undertaking adding something like that to the game is. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Ghazu
308
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 04:27:00 -
[379] - Quote
My main concern is the lack of concept disclosure, if devs publicize tangible words on gameplay concepts that don't suck balls as in barbie dressup and emoting at the fountain, they will find the a nice change in the subscriber landscape in terms of wis support. If it opens up a new "ecology" or what you want to call it and expands the game then hell yes I would support taking resources away from fis for it but it needs to be approved by players. They need to know that they do not have unconditional support for wis, and in order for us to be supporting wis we need to first know what the hell exactly we are supporting.
Much time has passed it is time to show those cards the devs' been holding close to their chests. Without further details I am inclined to believe that wis is nothing but useless barbie dressup appealing to only the few emote loving dudes posting here and should be scrapped. Please show that it was not bluffing. http://www.minerbumping.com/ |
Ghazu
308
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 04:40:00 -
[380] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Ghazu wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote: Don't know what your problem is and quite honestly, I don't really care. For some reason you seem hellbent on being antagonistic. Considering the fact that your character is only 2 years old and unknown to me, I see no reason for you to have this bitter attitude, let alone try to provoke rage especially since you're nowhere near being a vet.
If you continue trying to start some sort of forum flame war with me, I will use the report option.
DMC
Whatever you say, 4 year old npc alt. Obviously you don't know me and didn't bother to check so I'll set the record straight for you. THIS IS MY FIRST AND WILL ALWAYS BE MY MAIN CHARACTER.If you need some proof, check my skills and standings. Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:How do you pull the plug on something that was dead on arrival? Actually, it just needed a lot of attention and TLC but due to the vocal minority, it got locked into a deep dark hole, er.... room, where it has slowly bled to death from all of the constant anti avatar attacks, much like this thread topic. This is just another re-hash, everything has already been said and done a long time ago. It's nothing more than "Promises In The Dark"DMC Please forgive my impudence I did not know I was speaking to a mission running superstar. http://www.minerbumping.com/ |
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Bane Necran
Appono Astos
817
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Posted - 2012.11.29 04:45:00 -
[381] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Please forgive my impudence I did not know I was speaking to a mission running superstar.
We'll forgive you this time, but such transgressions will not be tolerated in the future. "It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |
Ghazu
308
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Posted - 2012.11.29 04:53:00 -
[382] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:Ghazu wrote:Please forgive my impudence I did not know I was speaking to a mission running superstar. We'll forgive you this time, but such transgressions will not be tolerated in the future. Yessir o7
fly safe
and god bless
G http://www.minerbumping.com/ |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1806
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 05:14:00 -
[383] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:The problem isn't that CCP doesn't have the resources to make it happen, they do, but as Snow Axe has pointed out, they can't do one without taking from the other.
Kill WoD. Watch more resources become available without affecting FiS development. Point nullified.
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Nick Rich
Republic University Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2012.11.29 09:06:00 -
[384] - Quote
CCP, please! There is a question, not only for me, because people are just guessing. So tell us at least something about the WIS, you can follow any responses to at least some encouraging information realties? The fact that no information is already heavily fed up. |
Borascus
Red Core Paradigm Shift Alliance
123
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 09:33:00 -
[385] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote: I'm sorry you're so confused. But keep talking about how everyone wants Space Barbie, I'm sure that will work.
Unlike Space Butlins/Pontins which we already have.... and shiny barbie disco-ball ships. |
Buck Futz
Suddenly Violence Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
119
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 09:54:00 -
[386] - Quote
WiS is dead, gone, and good riddance. The same people that would enjoy WiS are the annoying types that turned "Likes and get Likes" and all the Avatar threads into a GD eyesore for over a year. Screw wasting resources on that lot.
Of course, I'd be happier about it, but the CCP Devs who thought Space Barbies was a "brilliant" idea are the same ones who are currently pushing their highsec carebear wet dream version of EVE on the rest of us.
If I had to choose between Crimewatch 2.0 and idiotic barge buffs or space barbies and NEX, I'd say let the girls have their dolls.
Also, is it just me or do Brits WAY overuse the term 'brilliant'? |
Brutus King
Hooligans Of War
2
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Posted - 2012.11.29 10:22:00 -
[387] - Quote
Killing CQ and NEX is a BRILLIANT idea. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
65
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 10:22:00 -
[388] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:The problem isn't that CCP doesn't have the resources to make it happen, they do, but as Snow Axe has pointed out, they can't do one without taking from the other. Kill WoD. Watch more resources become available without affecting FiS development. Point nullified.
Good riddance, we can have neo vampires in space, a division of blood raiders. Inside mining barge, true story |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5285
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 10:26:00 -
[389] - Quote
Buck Futz wrote:WiS is dead, gone, and good riddance. The same people that would enjoy WiS are the annoying types that turned "Likes and get Likes" and all the Avatar threads into a GD eyesore for over a year. Screw wasting resources on that lot.
Of course, I'd be happier about it, but the CCP Devs who thought Space Barbies was a "brilliant" idea are the same ones who are currently pushing their highsec carebear wet dream version of EVE on the rest of us.
If I had to choose between Crimewatch 2.0 and idiotic barge buffs or space barbies and NEX, I'd say let the girls have their dolls.
Also, is it just me or do Brits WAY overuse the term 'brilliant'?
It's just you. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
123
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 10:53:00 -
[390] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:
WoD is definitely still in development and development is split off from EVE so that they can concentrate on their game and making it awesome. [/list]
I appreciate very much you saying this. ^^ |
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