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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 45 post(s) |

Zarnak Wulf
In Exile.
980
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 19:02:00 -
[631] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:A few updates:
We're switching the AAR to use nanite repair paste instead of cap boosters. What we're looking at now is for them to hold 8 reps worth of paste, with the smalls eating 1 per cycle, the mediums eating 5 and the larges eating 10.
I'm also investigating our options for reducing the base powergrid need for medium and large armor reps a bit.
We're aiming to have all of this on Sisi before the weekend. Please note that just because things are on Sisi doesn't mean they can no longer change. It just means we want to give people a chance to try it out in the game client.
I like it. Reducing the power cost of medium and large reppers should help with PG issues. Any thoughts or opinions on the rep per cycle of those same mediums and larges though? |

Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
225
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 19:02:00 -
[632] - Quote
Apostrof Ahashion wrote: AAR wont change anything, you will just swap one repairer for it. Not a single fit will change. And it 100% wont free you any slots, dont really understand what led you to that conclusion. It is just a straight, flat armor repair boost that will cost us incredibly boring cargohold management. And buffer&active tank combo is not really that good idea, dont get your hopes up.
MAAR = 1,68 * MAR2 That's not exactly twice, but considering fitting and slots (AAR should have fitting req of a T1 AR), you can really consider using one AAR instead of 2 AR. That would effectively free you one low slot.
The AAR work for 7 to 9 cycles. On a MAAR, that will be 63 to 81 seconds (std vs navy cap charges), which mean that you don't need more than that time of capacitor, because at the end, you will reload and don't need so many cap. Notice too that 81 seconds will often be the end of the fight. That mean you don't need this cap booster as much as with a standard active tank fit, or at least that a small one will be enough, saving you fitting space if not a med slot.
If you are not in that case, it's a sustained tank case. But even here, you will be 10 to 16% faster than before, just because of the rigs. That's not meaningless.
And finaly, the AAR on any ship is better than one rep on an incursus for example ; considering that 10%/lvl bonus was seen to be a solution to AR problem, I think we can consider AAR viable for almost any ship. That mean you can now actually tank your ship with an AAR and still sig/speed tank, because your speed is not killed anymore. That is game changing.
And plates being 25% lighter is not meaningless either : that's almost the difference between T2 and rolled tungsten plates. That is about half a second of align time, and the difference will be even larger with smaller plates. You are still heavier than a shield ship, but the difference will be between 25 and 32% lower. Agility matter too.
The question is more what do you, moaners, want armor tanking to be ? Shield need to still be viable after that. |

Celly Smunt
Viziam Amarr Empire
73
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 19:05:00 -
[633] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:A few updates:
We're switching the AAR to use nanite repair paste instead of cap boosters. What we're looking at now is for them to hold 8 reps worth of paste, with the smalls eating 1 per cycle, the mediums eating 5 and the larges eating 10.
I'm also investigating our options for reducing the base powergrid need for medium and large armor reps a bit.
We're aiming to have all of this on Sisi before the weekend. Please note that just because things are on Sisi doesn't mean they can no longer change. It just means we want to give people a chance to try it out in the game client.
good lookin out...
or if you're not into "hood" vernacular, good job listening to the folk's feedback. :P
I do think you should be prepared for the influx of ASB user's complaints about the volume difference between CBs and NP.
just a head's up...
but good job on the decision to switch to NP, it's much more practical imho for that repping armor.
o/ Celly Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or be singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator. |

Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
133
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 19:09:00 -
[634] - Quote
Celly Smunt wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:A few updates:
We're switching the AAR to use nanite repair paste instead of cap boosters. What we're looking at now is for them to hold 8 reps worth of paste, with the smalls eating 1 per cycle, the mediums eating 5 and the larges eating 10.
I'm also investigating our options for reducing the base powergrid need for medium and large armor reps a bit.
We're aiming to have all of this on Sisi before the weekend. Please note that just because things are on Sisi doesn't mean they can no longer change. It just means we want to give people a chance to try it out in the game client. good lookin out... or if you're not into "hood" vernacular, good job listening to the folk's feedback. :P I do think you should be prepared for the influx of ASB user's complaints about the volume difference between CBs and NP. just a head's up... but good job on the decision to switch to NP, it's much more practical imho for that repping armor. o/ Celly
I think it's fine that the ASB still uses tiny cap boosters as it's free to run. Armor needs that space for big boosters since their repair modules aren't free. I wear my sunglasses at night. |

Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
459
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 19:20:00 -
[635] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:A few updates:
We're switching the AAR to use nanite repair paste instead of cap boosters. What we're looking at now is for them to hold 8 reps worth of paste, with the smalls eating 1 per cycle, the mediums eating 5 and the larges eating 10.
I'm also investigating our options for reducing the base powergrid need for medium and large armor reps a bit.
We're aiming to have all of this on Sisi before the weekend. Please note that just because things are on Sisi doesn't mean they can no longer change. It just means we want to give people a chance to try it out in the game client. Now we just need better rep per cycle for medium and large reps Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |

elitatwo
Congregatio
62
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 19:30:00 -
[636] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:A few updates:
We're switching the AAR to use nanite repair paste instead of cap boosters. What we're looking at now is for them to hold 8 reps worth of paste, with the smalls eating 1 per cycle, the mediums eating 5 and the larges eating 10.
I'm also investigating our options for reducing the base powergrid need for medium and large armor reps a bit.
We're aiming to have all of this on Sisi before the weekend. Please note that just because things are on Sisi doesn't mean they can no longer change. It just means we want to give people a chance to try it out in the game client.
Dear CCP Fozzie and Yitterbium, did one of you by any chance took a look at my recent proposal? And if yes, what do you think? I didn't want armor tankers to take over New Eden but I also would like to a larger Incursus some day 
As for numbers, I'm glad I was able to catch up after being away for a day.
Anyway I like numbers, I hope you do too?
Right now our medium armor repair module I needs 150 powergrid and the tech2 one needs 175 powergrid, so don't we meet in the middle and say that AAR would need powergrid in a range of 155-165 powergrid and we would go a tiny bit lower on the tech1 and tech2 module in a range of let's say
Medium Armor Repairer I -> 130 powergrid and the Medium Armir Repairer II -> 145 powergrid and maybe this summer we get some nicer numbers on the larger ones too?
Large Armor Repairer I -> 1600 powergrid (no battlecruiser or Tengu will be able to fit this anyway) Large Armor Repairer II -> 1850 powergrid?
As with any information you read here, these are merely suggestions and I am not in charge of things! |

Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
133
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 19:31:00 -
[637] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote: Now we just need better rep per cycle for medium and large reps
Why? I wear my sunglasses at night. |
|

CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
3617

|
Posted - 2013.01.23 19:32:00 -
[638] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:A few updates:
We're switching the AAR to use nanite repair paste instead of cap boosters. What we're looking at now is for them to hold 8 reps worth of paste, with the smalls eating 1 per cycle, the mediums eating 5 and the larges eating 10.
I'm also investigating our options for reducing the base powergrid need for medium and large armor reps a bit.
We're aiming to have all of this on Sisi before the weekend. Please note that just because things are on Sisi doesn't mean they can no longer change. It just means we want to give people a chance to try it out in the game client. Dear CCP Fozzie and Yitterbium, did one of you by any chance took a look at my recent proposal? And if yes, what do you think? I didn't want armor tankers to take over New Eden but I also would like to a larger Incursus some day  As for numbers, I'm glad I was able to catch up after being away for a day. Anyway I like numbers, I hope you do too? Right now our medium armor repair module I needs 150 powergrid and the tech2 one needs 175 powergrid, so don't we meet in the middle and say that AAR would need powergrid in a range of 155-165 powergrid and we would go a tiny bit lower on the tech1 and tech2 module in a range of let's say Medium Armor Repairer I -> 130 powergrid and the Medium Armir Repairer II -> 145 powergrid and maybe this summer we get some nicer numbers on the larger ones too? Large Armor Repairer I -> 1600 powergrid (no battlecruiser or Tengu will be able to fit this anyway) Large Armor Repairer II -> 1850 powergrid? As with any information you read here, these are merely suggestions and I am not in charge of things!
Reducing medium and large armor rep cycle time is definitely an option, either for 1.1 or in a subsequent iteration.
Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
|

elitatwo
Congregatio
62
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 19:46:00 -
[639] - Quote
Thank you! That is all I wanted to know 
Now I am getting on SiSi and take my Brutix and my Myrmidon out for an extended ride  |

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
127
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 19:47:00 -
[640] - Quote
I don't really see why active tanking has to be more expensive than everything else, but w/e. |

Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
460
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 19:55:00 -
[641] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:elitatwo wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:A few updates:
We're switching the AAR to use nanite repair paste instead of cap boosters. What we're looking at now is for them to hold 8 reps worth of paste, with the smalls eating 1 per cycle, the mediums eating 5 and the larges eating 10.
I'm also investigating our options for reducing the base powergrid need for medium and large armor reps a bit.
We're aiming to have all of this on Sisi before the weekend. Please note that just because things are on Sisi doesn't mean they can no longer change. It just means we want to give people a chance to try it out in the game client. Dear CCP Fozzie and Yitterbium, did one of you by any chance took a look at my recent proposal? And if yes, what do you think? I didn't want armor tankers to take over New Eden but I also would like to a larger Incursus some day  As for numbers, I'm glad I was able to catch up after being away for a day. Anyway I like numbers, I hope you do too? Right now our medium armor repair module I needs 150 powergrid and the tech2 one needs 175 powergrid, so don't we meet in the middle and say that AAR would need powergrid in a range of 155-165 powergrid and we would go a tiny bit lower on the tech1 and tech2 module in a range of let's say Medium Armor Repairer I -> 130 powergrid and the Medium Armir Repairer II -> 145 powergrid and maybe this summer we get some nicer numbers on the larger ones too? Large Armor Repairer I -> 1600 powergrid (no battlecruiser or Tengu will be able to fit this anyway) Large Armor Repairer II -> 1850 powergrid? As with any information you read here, these are merely suggestions and I am not in charge of things! Reducing medium and large armor rep cycle time is definitely an option, either for 1.1 or in a subsequent iteration. I personally feel that bigger rep amount would be better than a faster cycle time and it would keep armor and shields separate on functionality. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |

Dread Operative
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
112
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 19:56:00 -
[642] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:A few updates:
We're switching the AAR to use nanite repair paste instead of cap boosters. What we're looking at now is for them to hold 8 reps worth of paste, with the smalls eating 1 per cycle, the mediums eating 5 and the larges eating 10.
I'm also investigating our options for reducing the base powergrid need for medium and large armor reps a bit.
We're aiming to have all of this on Sisi before the weekend. Please note that just because things are on Sisi doesn't mean they can no longer change. It just means we want to give people a chance to try it out in the game client.
So a fully loaded MAAR will cost twice as much to run as a LASB. Lame. |

Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
133
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 20:01:00 -
[643] - Quote
Dread Operative wrote: So a fully loaded MAAR will cost twice as much to run as a LASB. Lame.
It's what the community was asking for. I wear my sunglasses at night. |

Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
460
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 20:03:00 -
[644] - Quote
Dread Operative wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:A few updates:
We're switching the AAR to use nanite repair paste instead of cap boosters. What we're looking at now is for them to hold 8 reps worth of paste, with the smalls eating 1 per cycle, the mediums eating 5 and the larges eating 10.
I'm also investigating our options for reducing the base powergrid need for medium and large armor reps a bit.
We're aiming to have all of this on Sisi before the weekend. Please note that just because things are on Sisi doesn't mean they can no longer change. It just means we want to give people a chance to try it out in the game client. So a fully loaded MAAR will cost twice as much to run as a LASB. Lame. Yeah and you can only hold 1600 units or repair paste per 400 cap booster. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
492
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 20:18:00 -
[645] - Quote
Dread Operative wrote:So a fully loaded MAAR will cost twice as much to run as a LASB. Lame. "Easy" enough to sort out by tweaking PI formula's when/if needed. If the new mod takes off in the same way the broken ASB did then paste prices will skyrocket and an adjustment necessary.
Just the thought that I'll be able to keep up with the pesky omni-present shield abominations in both speed and tank makes me all dizzy with anticipation .. read: I'd happily pay loads more than suggested for the power I'll have! |

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
127
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 20:22:00 -
[646] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Dread Operative wrote:So a fully loaded MAAR will cost twice as much to run as a LASB. Lame. "Easy" enough to sort out by tweaking PI formula's when/if needed. If the new mod takes off in the same way the broken ASB did then paste prices will skyrocket and an adjustment necessary.
It is easy enough, but that doesn't mean they'll do it. |

Galatea Galilei
Profoundly Inquisitive Exploration
20
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 20:44:00 -
[647] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:The question is more what do you, moaners, want armor tanking to be ? Shield need to still be viable after that. What I want it to be is not so terrible that on a ship that gets an armor rep bonus, you can fit a more powerful tank by ignoring the bonus and fitting a shield tank instead. I don't see why shield tanking would cease to be viable if armor tanking were made to be as effective at tanking, just with suckier disadvantages. That would be a huge improvement to the current situation, where armor tanking in addition to having more severe disadvantages, and crowding out your damage amp modules so you do less dps, it also happens to not be able to tank as much incoming damage! If it's going to be worse at actually tanking damage, it ought to have less severe disadvantages. Or if it's going to continue to have more severe disadvantages, it ought to be at least as good if not better at actually tanking incoming dps. But no, for your more severe disadvantages, you're rewarded with a less powerful tank and end up warping out of bad spawns where the intelligent player who just ignored the bonus and fit a shield tank keeps right on trucking through the damage...
|

Dzajic
114
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 20:45:00 -
[648] - Quote
1 nanite per cycle, 9 for full for frigs. Ok reasonable. It will be more expensive than cap boosters, but yes vastly lower volume.
Ofc, changing PI formula to cut nanite paste prices say in half would be doubleplusgood. |

Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
608
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 20:46:00 -
[649] - Quote
The say a picture is worth a thousand words... here is a graphical comparison of the AAR and the ASB
http://i.imgur.com/j0CLZs5.jpg
Please correct any mistakes I have made. |

X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
992
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 20:48:00 -
[650] - Quote
Dread Operative wrote:So a fully loaded MAAR will cost twice as much to run as a LASB. Lame. Cost of doing business as a Gallente pilot. Not a big deal.... |

Rented
Hunter Heavy Industries
46
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 20:52:00 -
[651] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:The say a picture is worth a thousand words... here is a graphical comparison of the AAR and the ASB http://i.imgur.com/j0CLZs5.jpgPlease correct any mistakes I have made. Please note that I gave the AAR 3x rigs to help it out a little bit. I didn't include the Overcharge rig because the exact mechanics have not been clarified.
You forgot to emphasize that the AAR also takes longer to repair less. |

Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
608
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 20:59:00 -
[652] - Quote
Rented wrote:Takeshi Yamato wrote:The say a picture is worth a thousand words... here is a graphical comparison of the AAR and the ASB http://i.imgur.com/j0CLZs5.jpgPlease correct any mistakes I have made. Please note that I gave the AAR 3x rigs to help it out a little bit. I didn't include the Overcharge rig because the exact mechanics have not been clarified. You forgot to emphasize that the AAR also takes longer to repair less. But you did actually make a mistake... you didn't amplify the repair amount by 2.25 like you should've (you only noted it on the effective repair amount). And Fozzie jsut announced he's nerfing the AAR down to only 8 cycles, not 9.
Good catch, I'm going to update the graphic. |

Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
225
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 20:59:00 -
[653] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:The say a picture is worth a thousand words... here is a graphical comparison of the AAR and the ASB http://i.imgur.com/j0CLZs5.jpgPlease correct any mistakes I have made. Please note that I gave the AAR 3x rigs to help it out a little bit. I didn't include the Overcharge rig because the exact mechanics have not been clarified. MAR rep 240hp/cycle. MAAR would hence rep 240 * 3/4 = 180 hp/c when NOT charged. Charged, rep is tripled, going to 540 hp/c. Hence, with 9 cycles, you are looking for 4860hp repaired, which is more than a LASB.
With 2 nanopump, MAAR base repair value become 312*0,75 = 234 ; and then with charge : 234 * 3 = 702 ; with 9 cycles : 702 * 9 = 6318 hp total.
ehp/s value of your picture should be good though.
PS : meh, not fast enough |

Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
133
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 21:00:00 -
[654] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:The say a picture is worth a thousand words... here is a graphical comparison of the AAR and the ASB http://i.imgur.com/j0CLZs5.jpgPlease correct any mistakes I have made. Please note that I gave the AAR 3x rigs to help it out a little bit. I didn't include the Overcharge rig because the exact mechanics have not been clarified. Comparing a single medium AAR to the x-large and large ASB is pretty pointless. I wear my sunglasses at night. |

mine mi
Hispania Armored Forces Ethereal Dawn
15
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 21:01:00 -
[655] - Quote
In my opinion,
Amarr resist bonus
Gallente hitpoints bonus
caldari resist bonus
minmatar shield boost.
would be less symmetrical and Gallente ships suits them best a buffer that does not add mass, than a repair module it consumes capacitor. |

fr0gout
Aralis Fangirls Club
10
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 21:04:00 -
[656] - Quote
Dread Operative wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:A few updates:
We're switching the AAR to use nanite repair paste instead of cap boosters. What we're looking at now is for them to hold 8 reps worth of paste, with the smalls eating 1 per cycle, the mediums eating 5 and the larges eating 10.
I'm also investigating our options for reducing the base powergrid need for medium and large armor reps a bit.
We're aiming to have all of this on Sisi before the weekend. Please note that just because things are on Sisi doesn't mean they can no longer change. It just means we want to give people a chance to try it out in the game client. So a fully loaded MAAR will cost twice as much to run as a LASB. Lame.
Nanite Repair past takes up next to no cargo space however. For example a full reload for a large AAR would only take 0.80m3 (80x nanite past)
I think it's interesting to have different strengths/drawbacks for both modules |

Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
608
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 21:08:00 -
[657] - Quote
Updated graphic with correct AAR total rep amount:
http://i.imgur.com/REYYlHK.jpg
For anyone wondering, the AAR tank without the rigs is is 238.5 per second, total of 4320. That's less than the L-ASB total.
This also shows how utterly ridiculous oversizing is. |

Nikuno
Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers
81
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 21:13:00 -
[658] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:A few updates:
We're switching the AAR to use nanite repair paste instead of cap boosters. What we're looking at now is for them to hold 8 reps worth of paste, with the smalls eating 1 per cycle, the mediums eating 5 and the larges eating 10.
I'm also investigating our options for reducing the base powergrid need for medium and large armor reps a bit.
We're aiming to have all of this on Sisi before the weekend. Please note that just because things are on Sisi doesn't mean they can no longer change. It just means we want to give people a chance to try it out in the game client.
Please, leave it at a default of 9 cyles when fully loaded. Do you really think there are many ASBs that run on non-navy boosters? I never would and I can't say I've come across many. I could link kms if you like showing the navy charges but I'm sure you can find plenty for yourself.
This still leaves the questions of
1. Does it rep while it reloads at the lower level or does it deactivate?
2. If it doesn't continue to rep can it be made optional to switch the boost on giving the chance to begin by running in 3/4 mode whilst holding the burst until needed?
|

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
492
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 21:17:00 -
[659] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:The say a picture is worth a thousand words... here is a graphical comparison of the AAR and the ASB http://i.imgur.com/REYYlHK.jpg (updated with correct total rep amount for the AAR) Please correct any mistakes I have made. Please note that I gave the AAR 3x rigs to help it out a little bit. I didn't include the Overcharge rig because the exact mechanics have not been clarified. Why the resist mods, should be enough to just use the suitcase as both ships have resist bonus? Why two tanking mods for shield .. you'll need to (at least) add a T2 MAR to Prophecy to even out the effect of the amplifier.
Speaking of which .. where is my fittings friendly super boost to my armour tanking mods .. I want a nanite amplifier! |

Rented
Hunter Heavy Industries
46
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 21:19:00 -
[660] - Quote
Perihelion Olenard wrote:Takeshi Yamato wrote:The say a picture is worth a thousand words... here is a graphical comparison of the AAR and the ASB http://i.imgur.com/j0CLZs5.jpgPlease correct any mistakes I have made. Please note that I gave the AAR 3x rigs to help it out a little bit. I didn't include the Overcharge rig because the exact mechanics have not been clarified. Comparing a single medium AAR to the x-large and large ASB is pretty pointless. You'd be better off comparing small apples to extremely large oranges.
You say this almost as if there was any meaningful difference in fitting requirements between the medium AAR and the large ASB. It's almost as if you believe the medium AAR can be stacked.... which it can't, or that the large ASB can't be stacked.... which it can. And perhaps you believed the armor tank wasn't taking up more slots and using up all the rig slots, which it was. |
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