Some kid was just on help saying that he tried to sell a PLEX and another player convod him and got the kid to just do an in station swap. Is that frowned upon? And does CCP do anything to discourage it?

Just curious, I felt kind of bad about the story. The kid was like "my mom bought it for my birthday =-(

It was awful!

Its part of the game, as long as he didn't use the recruitment channel or the help channel directly then whoever scammed him did nothing wrong.

Against the rules and Wrong are 2 different things. It was wrong. Scamming a few million isk is one thing, but that was 20$, and now the kid feels like **** about the game. No reason for that.

Secondly, if "his mom gave it to him" it was to give him a month of game time... so why was he trying to sell it to begin with. If I was his mom I'd be a little pissed off about that. That fact negates some of my sympathy.

No, the only issue is "is scamming allowed in the help channel, and did this event happen in the help channel or a convo?".

True, but the headache for CCP will be when mom calls her credit card company and says "That's an invalid charge because my son didn't get the thing I bought." TBH, I was surprised when CCP started allowing you to undock with PLEX - it's got to be mkore of a hassle for them than they first anticipated.

I don' know about you guys, but as a new player I was in NO POSITION to buy PLEX at all. If it was available at the time, I'd have been SELLING PLEX! What noob has 550 mil to kick around? It took me forever just to scrape together enough ISK for a battleship! If you can scam a noob w/ PLEX I got news for ya: he's hot a noob.

i'm pretty sure chargebacks get you permabanned

The noob was selling.

I'm sorry but no matter how new you are you shouldn't be dumb enough to give a PLEX to someone else via station trade

"New" is not a synonym for "stupid"

Make all the conditions you like but scamming noobs, ganking noobs, sucking noobs into BS gank the noob corps etc, are all total Bullcrap and anyone caught doing such should be permabanned.

The game will be much better off without them. AND the whole scamming plex thing has gotten out of control IMO. Sure, those of us who have been around don't pay attention to them so why are they there? The only person who will fall for one is a noob, otherwise they just contribute to the local spam overload in trade hubs.

And how is a new player to know this? If you want to buy and sell something - and the person was in the same station as you - why wouldn't you use the trade system? Every other MMO in the world has a trade system that operates in a similar fashion...it would be the natural port of call.

And how is a new player to know this? If you want to buy and sell something - and the person was in the same station as you - why wouldn't you use the trade system? Every other MMO in the world has a trade system that operates in a similar fashion...it would be the natural port of call.

i'm pretty sure chargebacks get you permabanned

So, if I read this correctly, which is unlikely.....

New player gets a plex to sell, gets scammed by some player.....

Technically, the scammer stole $15 from a kid, I wonder if it's actionable as petty theft?

They can't prohibit scamming newbies without prohibiting scamming in its entirety, since making special cases for new players adds excessive GM workload when everyone who gets scammed regardless of how long they have been playing tries to get their stuff back under a vague provision.

Scamming is allowed in this game and it hasn't hindered its growth.

Once you use money for a game item, that item no longer has a RL value. So saying the scammer stole 15/20 bucks from his is wrong. As to a "new" player talking in the help channel about being scammed, more than likely he's yet another scammer looking to dupe people into giving him isk.

Also, I kind of liked it better when Thomas Hurt would post obvious troll posts vs his new alt posting vague ones.

Make all the conditions you like but scamming noobs, ganking noobs, sucking noobs into BS gank the noob corps etc, are all total Bullcrap and anyone caught doing such should be permabanned.

The game will be much better off without them. AND the whole scamming plex thing has gotten out of control IMO. Sure, those of us who have been around don't pay attention to them so why are they there? The only person who will fall for one is a noob, otherwise they just contribute to the local spam overload in trade hubs.

"They can't prohibit suicide ganking newbies without prohibiting suicide ganking in its entirity, since making special cases for new players adds excessive GM workload when everyone who gets suicide ganked regardless of how long they have been playing tries to get their stuff back under a vague provision."

And yet they ban for suicide ganking newbs. There's no reason they can't make a provision for scamming as well.

I assure you that people many years into this game still do incredibly stupid things.

But this opinion you have about scamming, ganking, and so on, does it apply to only noobs? Are more experienced players fair game, in your opinion? If so, how would you define a noob? Keep in mind that this definition has to avoid being gamed in order to confer protection to more veteran players.

If, for instance, all accounts under a certain age or SP couldn't be scammed, I would use alts that fit that description to do all my business. In fact, I would probably use those alts to scam other people in a way that could be played off as ignorance.

There is no 'technically..." aspect about it. If that were the case, then you could argue that someone scamming you out of anything in game is stealing "technically" since, due to the transitive property, item X is worth 600M isk (in-game) and that is equivalent to the price of a PLEX (an in-game item) which can be purchased for $15.

Heck...for that matter, if someone violences my tricked out mining boat...can I take them to small claims court?

It's slippery slope that CCP has consistently cutoff by reminding you that once you convert at GTC to PLEX or have a PLEX in-game, it is a virtual, in-game item and holds no real world value.

And, reading the OP, it sounds like the supposed new player went to the Help channel to whine about being scammed...the actual scam took place in private convo.

KB

Its easy to define a noob. A kid who wants to sell a PLEX his mom got him and who doesn't know how to contract it. That is by definition a noob, and someone that needs a bit of direction.

The trick here is not to try and enforce or investigate the matter after the fact, you are correct that is futile. Rather scamming noobs should be against policy, and DM's should go out acting like noobs and then ban the scammers that go after them.

Once the scammers are not sure if they are talking to a kid or a DM they will be less brazen. I guess they will just use alts. Is there a way to know if alt accounts are from the same comp? or a way to track the PLEX once the scammer has it?

There are two ways to learn lessons: the easy way and the hard way and the poor kid got it in the hard way, as simple as that although i feel bad about the incidence in all

The problem is that this was a RL lesson learned from a ridiculous video game. Do you really think that the cold horrifying "reality" of Eve is a good model with which to teach kids about life? Gahhh! They would all grow up to be hateful lawyers that carried guns.

Its easy to define a noob. A kid who wants to sell a PLEX his mom got him and who doesn't know how to contract it. That is by definition a noob, and someone that needs a bit of direction.

Do you really think that the cold horrifying "reality" of Eve is a good model with which to teach kids about life? Gahhh!

Some posts in this thread make me smile.

EVE is a harsh and unforgiving place... But you can't scam noobs. At the same time, it's perfectly OK if said noob goes and buys his first battleship, outfits it with nice bling, takes it to low sec and gets immediately blown up by a gate camp. What's that? He should know better than to take a BS into lowsec without a scout? Well, he should also know better than trade a PLEX with a random char in station too. And the contradictions just keep piling up...

You guys should really make up your minds. If you want the game to be harsh and unforgiving, then make it harsh and unforgiving. If you want it to be Hello Kitty Island Adventure, then make it so. But don't come up with dozens of arbitrary exception cases of what is OK and what is not OK. For example, at what point does a player stop being a noob anyway? 14 days? 21 days? What if he only actively played for 1 of those 21 days, is he still a noob? Is a noob someone who is clueless regardless of the time spent in game? By that logic I can claim all my losses should be refunded because I'm a noob too, when it comes to certain things. Etc., etc.

Bottom line, in this particular case, if the kid doesn't get his PLEX returned, he'll probably quit the game. Which also explains why the game is having trouble reaching even 500k subs. On the flipside, had this kid gotten the ISK for his PLEX and used ISK to buy a nice ship and then lost it - be it to suicide gankers, NPCs, lag/connection issues, etc., he'd probably quit as well. Which also explains why the game is having trouble reaching that same 500k subs. The only possible "happy ending" is the guy gets really lucky, doesn't make any mistakes, and sticks around long enough to learn enough not to fall for obvious things. It's the way the game is designed. I don't know why anyone would expect anything different.

They don't prohibit suicide ganking noobs. They prohibit suicide ganking noobs in the newbie starter systems.

I think Eve should be a harsh place. Highsec should be patrolled by DM's acting like noobs, and people that go after them because they are noobs should get fined or banned. Nothing wrong with having that kind of oversight in the sandbox. Call it "emergent content" it would be brilliant.

i'm pretty sure chargebacks get you permabanned

I'm no lawyer, but if I took $20 dollars off a child, my community would disown me and the law would make me pay - harshly where I live.

All the mother needs to do is write to her senator/MEP or equivalent. It wouldn't take much of a push for a senator to see EVE promoting terrorism, piracy, theft and scamming to decide that this game isn't something a child should have any part in - perhaps even adults. Now that I think about it, I wouldn't let my kids play EVE either, and I'm starting to think CCP are so childish and immoral that I soon may no longer have patience to tolerate their game further.

I'm no lawyer, but if I took $20 dollars off a child, my community would disown me and the law would make me pay - harshly where I live. I'm not aware of a country where theft is lawful actually - I'm going to test my google-fu after I post this to see if there is such a place.

All the mother needs to do is write to her senator/MEP or equivalent. It wouldn't take much of a push for a senator to see EVE promoting terrorism, piracy, theft and scamming to decide that this game isn't something a child should have any part in - perhaps even adults. Now that I think about it, I wouldn't let my kids play EVE either, and I'm starting to think CCP are so childish and immoral that I soon may no longer have patience to tolerate their game further.

Actually, yeah, I think EVE model is a good way to teach kids about life. It just depends on what you want in the end - a savvy kid or a naive kid who will soon be parted with his money (if any). It teaches risk management, resource allocation, basic economics, etc. In terms of education, EVE is way above average when it comes to gaming.


Frankly I wish I had EVE when I was growing up. Sadly when I was that age, ZX Spectrum was cutting edge technology...

Gotta disagree with you here. Remember this is the same age group that is paying all those f2p pay to win games on Facebook and PSN and the like. Parents give their kids in game money for stuff all the time (I've bought my kids cards for their games for their birthdays before).

The problem is, in Eve, your stuff can be taken away from you pretty easily, whereas in those other games, it generally is yours once you get it.




Fundamentally, I agree with you.

However, the headache for CCP will be when mom calls her credit card company and says "That's an invalid charge because my son didn't get the thing I bought." TBH, I was surprised when CCP started allowing you to undock with PLEX - it's got to be mkore of a hassle for them than they first anticipated.

Loosing a blingmobile in lowsec is different than having a PLEX taken. The kid got to buy and fit the ship, fly it around a bit, and a big warning sign appeared before he went into low. If he gets ganked then at least he gets to see CONCORD extract some vengeance. This kid asked for help and someone used his newness to take from him.

I think Eve should be a harsh place. Highsec should be patrolled by DM's acting like noobs, and people that go after them because they are noobs should get fined or banned.

Nothing wrong with having that kind of oversight in the sandbox. Call it "emergent content" it would be brilliant.

And yeah, if someone says "Give me $200, and I'll give you $400 back.", EVE will teach you it's a scam, and hopefully it'll cost you just some ISK. Same with contract scams - that ask to trade a PLEX + 500 mil for a single PLEX. It teaches you to read the fine print (and in EVE's case, it teaches you to read the BIG print). Which will come in handy when the kid is buying his first cell phone plan or whatever else.

Apperently everyone doesn't read the EULA, ESP the part that says, "Everything contained within is the sole property of CCP Games"

So, every ship/bullet/module/drone and *gasp* PLEX is "owned" by CCP and CCP only. The kid "lost" the $20 the moment he bought it from his acct management page.

Now, what if he undocked with it in his cargo hold, and he got ganked? Next half of you will be up in arms to ban the ganker!!!

Sure, the scammer was low and scammed a noob!
Did the scammer say ANYTHING in the "Help" channel?
No, he did not, he private convo'd him.
This happens ALL THE TIME with recruitment scams!

Tell the kid to suck it up and say "Welcome to EVE"

/thread

He did get the thing that she bought though, he just gave it away to someone.

Okay, so anyone who is a kid that wants to sell a PLEX his mom got him is a noob. Is there anyone else that is a noob? How can you confirm that this person is a kid? Most kids online are instructed to not tell anyone they're a kid. And if kids are going to get special consideration, what's to prevent someone like me from pretending to be a kid?

I walk up to a man on the street and say "please let me borrow $20, I'll give it back to you", he gives it to me, and I never give it back.

Is it theft? Ethically, perhaps. Legally?

I'm no lawyer, but if I took $20 dollars off a child, my community would disown me and the law would make me pay - harshly where I live. I'm not aware of a country where theft is lawful actually - I'm going to test my google-fu after I post this to see if there is such a place.

All the mother needs to do is write to her senator/MEP or equivalent. It wouldn't take much of a push for a senator to see EVE promoting terrorism, piracy, theft and scamming to decide that this game isn't something a child should have any part in - perhaps even adults. Now that I think about it, I wouldn't let my kids play EVE either, and I'm starting to think CCP are so childish and immoral that I soon may no longer have patience to tolerate their game further.

It would also be an effective waste of their time.

Like moderating a chat forum for game geeks? If DM scam patrollers remove 50% of noob scammer's and that means that 10 kids per month don't get screwed. If those kids did get screwed then 70% of them would leave. So for a few hours of DM time 7 subs were saved. I actually think that is a great use of DM time. Better than answering petitions about lost items and bugged missions all day.

EVE is a harsh and unforgiving place... But you can't scam noobs

They don't moderate the forum or the in game chat. It's rare that they even use it.

Why? If they have ISK and are careless, they should by able to learn a lesson.

So much miss-information posted with so much confidence.


"Scamming is part of the game, the only place it is not allowed is in the help channels. "

Eve is a harsh and unforgiving place...but CCP still needs to turn a profit.

Does that make it any clearer?

Eve is a harsh and unforgiving place...but CCP still needs to turn a profit.

Does that make it any clearer?

Mr Epeen

Given EVE is still up and running after 10 years and growing for all that time I would say its working just fine.

See what I mean, this person learned RL lessons from Eve. Are these the kind of people you want to live with in the RW. Nothing would get done as contracts were studied and looked over by lawyers, and as people worked as hard as possible not to create but to steal.

as if the real world isn't already like that?

Eve is real.

Its easy to define a noob. A kid who wants to sell a PLEX his mom got him and who doesn't know how to contract it. That is by definition a noob, and someone that needs a bit of direction.

The trick here is not to try and enforce or investigate the matter after the fact, you are correct that is futile. Rather scamming noobs should be against policy, and DM's should go out acting like noobs and then ban the scammers that go after them.

Once the scammers are not sure if they are talking to a kid or a DM they will be less brazen. I guess they will just use alts. Is there a way to know if alt accounts are from the same comp? or a way to track the PLEX once the scammer has it?

So, if I read this correctly, which is unlikely.....

New player gets a plex to sell, gets scammed by some player.....

Technically, the scammer stole $15 from a kid, I wonder if it's actionable as petty theft?

What's the guy called? I will help him.

What's the guy called? I will bounty him.

I hope you're trolling. By that way of thinking, every time someone blows up my ship I can take legal action against them. Derp

I feel sorry for the guy if(pretty big if)he's telling the truth, but scamming is part of the game. Also, it's not that hard to figure out that if you're putting a plex in a trade window, and the isk amount the other character has put in is ZERO, you probably shouldn't be expecting to get paid.

It's not CCP's or anyone's responsibility to make sure that people don't do stupid ****. By clicking accept on the trade window you are accepting whatever is in that exchange window. Same with the market, same with contracts.

If i were the OP, and I truly felt bad about what happened and new the person to be telling the truth, I'd just buy them a plex and show the other side of the EVE community to them.

Okay, so anyone who is a kid that wants to sell a PLEX his mom got him is a noob. Is there anyone else that is a noob? How can you confirm that this person is a kid? Most kids online are instructed to not tell anyone they're a kid. And if kids are going to get special consideration, what's to prevent someone like me from pretending to be a kid?

The kid left and his name got lost in the help scroll. He is one case and I feel bad about that, but giving him isk wont fix what is a problem.

PLEX is not like other in game items, it needs different management tools is all.

I was trying to stealthily get his name to do just that (20 million or so) and didn't get a name, since you stated why you wanted his name you will get a ton of people just trying to get free isk. Moot point now.

I have found the flaw in your logic chain. The above statement is incorrect.

PLEX is an in-game virtual item...just like a 1MN Afterburner.

KB

Well I can detect bullshits at 20 yards and didn't specify what the help was did I?

Would it affect your game negatively if PLEX were changed from an in game item to one that is managed from accounts? I think that would solve a lot of problems.

I mean that I am good at filtering bullshits in regard to your aformentioned concern that as I had proffered help to the individual I would get "it was me" begging attempts.

Don't worry about me - worry about our games poor newbs!

I have lost 40 000 000 ISK in the first 14 days of this game to a scam. No one gave a **** about that, and me either. HTFU and L2P. Pirate tricked me into attacking his little ship and he got back with friends, he said he will stop shoting my ship for 300 000 000 ISK, and i believed, he grabbed the money and destroyed ship worth 500 000 000 ISK, I was like, oh well, better never do that again.

Will you cry?

Will you give me ISK?

Hold on, I don't need it, and never will. I have been like HTFU, and it worked.

Yes it would.

Would it affect your game negatively if PLEX were changed from an in game item to one that is managed from accounts? I think that would solve a lot of problems.

But what if the pirate said "send me 40$ via paypal or I will blow up your ship!"

Some kid was just on help saying that he tried to sell a PLEX and another player convod him and got the kid to just do an in station swap. Is that frowned upon? And does CCP do anything to discourage it?

Just curious, I felt kind of bad about the story. The kid was like "my mom bought it for my birthday =-(

It was awful!

Wouldn't affect MY game one iota. However, I am not the type of person to request widespread, fundamental game changes in order to accomodate a handful of players who cannot fend for themselves.

KB

Was I the only one who thought perhaps this kid was scamming all of help chat....?

I would give him my middle finger. Real money is real money. And i learned, that you don't have real money in this game, even PLEX isn't real money. Its game item and can be traded, you can steal it, you can do everything with it in game, but you can't exchange it for money. It would be RMT.


PLEX is game item, not money, deal with it. The whole game is just what it is - a game, and i realised it when the pirate looked for loot in my wreck. The whole point to HTFU is to do what you want despite the problems, to think and stay vigilant, to achieve your goal in game finally. RW is real money, PLEX is just game item.

This is a forum thread with a few hundred hits, it is hardly a venue with a lot of weight behind it.

I am bothered by an in game dynamic that I feel would be better managed out of game. And wanted to talk a bit about it. If I could press a button right now and make the changes that I have suggested I would not do it. I have no clue how things work at CCP or how you would go about implementing such a change, or what the effects of that change would be.

I spout ideas and analyze them with other players because I enjoy doing so, not because I expect CCP to copy all of them down and have them implemented by the next patch.

It would be great If a mod or dev reads this and thinks 'well maybe it is something we should look at." But I'm not going to stop playing if they don't.

I get what you mean, but PLEX used to have a "special" status and CCP made the decision to relegate them to "in-game item" and I figure they did all of the legal and financial analysis necessary when they made that choice.

KB

Fair enough. Would you have any problems if PLEX were removed as an in game item? Assuming that there is another way to use ISK to pay for game time.

Wouldn't affect MY game one iota. However, I am not the type of person to request widespread, fundamental game changes in order to accomodate a handful of players who cannot fend for themselves.

Did the scam occur because the kid mis-read the isk amount in the trade window, or was it the trade window bug/trick (if that even still works)? If the latter, then the kid should be reimbursed and the scammer punished. Abuse of a faulty interface is not a legitimate scam imo.

The kid left and his name got lost in the help scroll. He is one case and I feel bad about that, but giving him isk wont fix what is a problem.

PLEX is not like other in game items, it needs different management tools is all. An auction where ftp players can bid a certain amount of ISK for a block of gametime. They would put the ISK in escrow, and if someone wanted to buy ISK they could look at the market and accept one of the bids, probably the highest.

Bids more than 5 or 10% below the mean would not even have to show up. And that market window should be different from the regular market window to emphasize the fact that you are dealing with real money on a secure account page.

Whatever they decide to do there's no good reason for this sort of thing to continue.

For me no, But for others yes. They could not trade it for ISK on market when it would be removed, for as much ISK as the player is willing to pay for it, that's important, And players could not loot it, nor steal it.
It should stay as game item. Important game item.

Hay guys, I just started today, what's with this scam going on? Don't want to get ripped off so early in my career.

I personally do not care for the practice of buying in game currency, but for those who want to participate it should be an option.

Jita contracts you see spammed in local are the best and reliable.

There's also doubling your isk, but those are a bit riskier.

His Mommy and Daddy bought it...anyone willing to be so careless with money obviously either has a lot of it or it wasn't theirs hat was lost.

I'm all for helping new players, but seriously...if he knows enough about EVE to know to buy PLEX and that he can sell it for ISK then he knows it has in game value and therefore should know not to just give it away.

In fact, I don't even think I buy this story. I think the kid was joking. There's noway in hell someone could be that stupid...


...and holy crap....Solstice Project has a conscience???

Starting to make me rethink my Atheism there....

Thanks! Off to Jita to double my ISK.

Look, I'm sorry you feel bad, I sympathize with the victim in the same manner I sympathize with a noob that gets his first battleship blown up on accident or whatever, but your whole way of thinking about this is incorrect.

As soon as you redeem PLEX it is exactly like every other in game item. It is able to be sold, bought, traded, contracted, scammed, exploded, dropped, ect. Maybe that should be made more clear when you are purchasing plex if it isn't already(I haven't bought plex with dollars in awhile).

The system for a plex auction you are describing is EXACTLY what the market does already with the exception of it being "different" than the regular market window. 5 - 10 percent below top price obviously shows up, but you can sort by price so that isn't an issue.

You're right in that there isn't any good reason for this sort of thing to continue. That reason being people should be intelligent/diligent enough to not get scammed. It's not like anyone forced him to not take the time to understand what it was that he was doing. He didn't get tripped, slip, then fall onto the accept button. It's very much his own fault.

If I misread a contract and give someone a billion isk for one tritanium, should that be dealt with by CCP. You'll say no of course not, but plex is different. Well what if I bought a bunch of plex, sold that plex for isk, then gave a billion isk for a tritanium piece? According to your thinking should I not get my money I spent on the plex back??

Hopefully you see how your logic unravels?

EVE is the only MMO worth playing for more than a few weeks due to the fact that there are pretty real consequences to your actions. Sometimes people get taken advantage of, there's nothing to be done about it without ruining what EVE is. If you still feel that something needs to be done, then I suggest you do something about it, instead of asking CCP to change the game to your way of thinking without consideration to other people's thoughts.

That is a well presented argument. And I agree with the idea that Eve should be a place that has real consequences for not being intelligent and diligent. I like the fact that it is unforgiving.

But the first rule of Eve is don't fly what you cant afford to lose. The problem with PLEX is that it forces inexperienced pilots to handle an in-game item that

a: they cannot afford to loose and

b: are not experienced enough to make intelligent and diligent decisions about.

This kid and many more like him will not send CCP any more money. That will cause the price of PLEX to go up. I'm surprised more of the ftp guys aren't up in arms about this. The only players who benefit from PLEX being an in-game item are scammers. They don't create content and they don't make Eve dark and gritty; they sit in station and screw up local. The game will be better without them.

It really comes down to what Epeen said, the PLEX program is taking money away from CCP in the form of lost deposits. Simple as that.

Anyways...
I have a some choice property I'm trying to sell, I've got a few interested folks from mentioning it in the help channel; figured I'd throw it out here as well.

Scamming is allowed in this game and it hasn't hindered its growth.

Simple fix:

WARNING: PLEX can be scammed, stolen, or destroyed the same as every other in-game item. CCP advises that you take the time to understand how the market works prior to redeeming and selling PLEX.

I like this idea.
Add it into the plex info description and thus you make it better.
Much like the safety button.

Should they do it for all items too?

Simple fix:

WARNING: PLEX can be scammed, stolen, or destroyed the same as every other in-game item. CCP advises that you take the time to understand how the market works prior to redeeming and selling PLEX.

CCP allows all scamming minus character bazaar. They don't care if your a new player, if its done in public or private. Expensive lesson in scams.

There is no scientific proof on whether it does or not.

Statistically, chances are people have quit because they have been scammed, though.

Or am I missing something important about the difference between an ETC and a plex?

Also the difference between plex and other scams is that PLEX uses real monies, where as the other items are pixels.

I do think PLEX should remain ingame as a method of changing RL money for ISK, but I feel that the predation on the young is detrimental to EVE as a game an institution and CCP as a company.

Much as greifing in newbie systems is prohibited I feel that such rules should expand to scamming of PLEX.

"scientific proof?"

scamming clearly hasn't hindered the growth of this game considering that, well, it's grown

statistically, chances are people have quit because of the skill system, are you going to suggest that everyone starts out with all skills at 5?

He didn't say "scientific proof" indicates one thing or the other. He said that "statistically" people don't continue to do business with the same entity that scammed them. IDK if thats true or not. I bet it is.

"scamming clearly hasn't hindered the growth of this game considering that, well, it's grown" Growth of the game in no way proves that certain aspects of the game haven't held it back.

Your post is horrible. Misquotes and bad logic. I'm surprised.

No, it should not.

Held it back from what? This game has been active for close to 10 years with no decline, and EVE has 450,000+ subscribers between Tranquility and Serenity. I'd call that a success.

You don't have to be a 5 year veteran to see that a contract asking for 2 PLEX in exchange for 600M is a scam when 1 PLEX costs 550M. You don't have to be a 5 year veteran to figure out that the market is where the majority of stuff in the game is purchased, considering that the goddamn tutorials teach you how to use it, how to use contracts and have absolutely nothing on the trade window.

There's a huge difference between being a newbie and an idiot. I'm sorry if you thought EVE was a themepark wonderland where the developers hold your hand at every turn so that you don't fall over and bruise your knee, but that isn't what this game is about.

That rule hasn't destroyed content, or made Eve dull and easy. There is no reason not to expand it to PLEX. despite your personal objections.

You exaggerate about the effect that removing PLEX would have. It will not be like a wonderland. It will still be Eve, except there will be a few more kids that get involved.

You and I both know that.

But what do you think he's going to tell mommy?

okay let's see here

1) new players aren't the only ones who buy PLEX
2) there is no way to tell who is a "new player" and an alt of a guy playing since 2003 and I doubt the "ban first, ask questions later" GMs go off checking that
3) every rule meant to protect "new players" has always ended up protecting older players, e.g. the recruitment channel rule which was, according to GMs, meant to "protect new players" while people were getting negwalleted for scamming 2006 idiots
4) considering that a newbie can buy a pile of PLEX and use that to buy a character off the market, that creates even more ambiguity

so yeah your idea is terrible, just learn how to use the market and stop asking CCP to hold your hand, don't worry, the rest of us managed to get through the darkness

If CCP enbedded ID codes on all PLEX and spent some time baiting such scammers then Eve would be a better place with more new subscribers.

Well damn son we might as well add mounts, /salutes and dances so we can get all of the kids playing EVE Online because CCP CLEARLY INTENDED EVE ONLINE TO BE A CHILDREN'S GAME RIGHT?

They would have to pay people to do this, making it a colossal waste of money.

You keep trying to make this about me wanting CCP to hold my hand and I don't know why. Is it because you had it tough and made it through a tough initiation that you think its now your turn to initiate someone, your turn to sit back and laugh while someone gets hammered like you perhaps did?

Most organizations are doing away with hazing for just this reason.

Ok you are now prohibited from docking at any noncorp station.
Navies now will kill any ship caught
Any items left in NPC stations or lost to a captued station is gone forever.
At anytime a director may take whatever they please from your wallet or hangars.
There will be no usage of help sites.
Oh and you will have to submit a birth certificate copy proving you are over 20 to play.
There no more child's play for you.

"you can dock in any NPC station in EVE, this is clearly indicative that it is a game intended for 11 year olds"

You are right. PLEX should just not be an in game item.

Can you come up with a good reason why they shouldn't be an ingame item?

because 12 year olds with their single mom's american express blue card will get scammed, apparently

Birthday money scam stories really are the best.

your argument is still "we need more kids playing eve online, an MMO for children"

Why not? PLEX gives people who don't want to pay real money the opportunity to pay with ingame money instead. they are also used to buy fanfest tickets & as a way to donate money to [insert major natural disaster here]. Can you come up with a good reason why they shouldn't be an ingame item?

Put another way: If PLEX cant be stolen then people will buy more PLEX. With more PLEX on the market the price of PLEX will go down.

Put another way: If PLEX cant be stolen then people will buy more PLEX. With more PLEX on the market the price of PLEX will go down.

"They can't prohibit suicide ganking newbies without prohibiting suicide ganking in its entirity, since making special cases for new players adds excessive GM workload when everyone who gets suicide ganked regardless of how long they have been playing tries to get their stuff back under a vague provision."

And yet they ban for suicide ganking newbs. There's no reason they can't make a provision for scamming as well.

After they leave their little starter-station they are subject to the same cruel Galaxy as the rest of us

Thank you sir, I fixed it ;) Yes, of course the starter systems not just the station, and Arnola (Sisters of EVE arc system) if I'm not mistaken.

Anyway, CCP, if anyone is listening, I'm happy with the current PLEX system and scammability of noobs. ;) Good work.

Interestingly enough there was a case in Japan several years ago that set a precedent for theft of virtual property under International Law, the malefactor was convicted in absentia and the gaming company was required to replace the virtual goods taken. Not all jurisdictions recognise gaming company agreements as legal contracts and international warrants can be issued where local/state legislation overrides them.

Against the rules and Wrong are 2 different things. It was wrong. Scamming a few million isk is one thing, but that was 20$, and now the kid feels like **** about the game. No reason for that.

And that is why eve online has never became a succes subscription number wise.
New players might end up with a bad experience, together with a long training time to do the fun stuff.

The guy who stole this PLEX is a champ.

Like real life scams, EVE scams can be easily avoided by reading words & using common sense. EVE's success in subscription numbers comes in the form of steadily rising numbers for 10 years running.

Am too dum to make iskies except fow scamming.

No, the problem is with PLEX. It is a problem because it puts too much value into a package that is too vulnerable.

Eve online is a game....

Eve online subscription numbers are 400k atm thanks to a 2nd server in china, most of which are multiboxing accounts.
A steady increase yes, but most of which are plexed accounts from the same owners, but still a very low number for mmo's.

Eve online is a game....

Eve online subscription numbers are 400k atm thanks to a 2nd server in china, most of which are multiboxing accounts.
A steady increase yes, but most of which are plexed accounts from the same owners, but still a very low number for mmo's.

Wow!

The goon damage control boys are on this like stink on crap!

Wonder why?

Really? I never would've guessed...



The 400k number you just handed out has nothing to do with China's subs, & that number is wrong anyway. It's a low number because it's a niche game. The masses like cookie-cutter MMO's, which EVE is not.

'Cause the omniscient CIA word-recognition software detected the words "scamming new players"?

To stop another bad change like the barge buff from happening.

Mistah, are you actually argueing that the tank or dps of a ship should be tied to price? Are you saying that it should take 20 10m isk ships to kill a 200m isk ship?

And you expect this will somehow help little old 8m-isk-per-hour bot aspirant miner against active players who actually *do* things?

So you can't gank a 200M ship with a couple of 20M dessies?

No idea why that happened?

So...in a nutshell, your game is ganking, scamming noobs?