All these people who are proposing that we make super asteroids or better low ends or whatnot have no idea what they're talking about or why the imbalance exists.

Generally one of the complaints is lack of reward for being in a more dangerous area. How does improving what is available out there not improve on that? Maybe be constructive rather than whine.

you're not going to nerf high sec mining's isk/hour unless you introduce low ends to null.

I'm not interested in nerfing high sec mining's isk/hour. As far as I'm concerned that's fine where it is.

That's not the point. The point is it's being proposed here as the simple fix that would make everything worthwhile. Well, frankly, it isn't. Sure mining in null could use some work. Mining EVERYWHERE could use work. But as far as industry as a whole goes, that needs even more work and most of these people are proposing these alternate schemes because they're scared to death of highsec getting nerfed. They don't care about the health of the game, they only care about preserving a system they benefit from.


I'm not interested in nerfing high sec mining's isk/hour. As far as I'm concerned that's fine where it is.

Pretty sure I never said that either.
You can buff mining isk/hr in null without having to nerf it in highsec.

In any case, what's going to happen is that the reduction in consumption by nullsec of highsec minerals will probably cause a decrease in their income anyway, probably offset by the loss of mineral imports from nullsec.

Quit being so damned self righteous. The often suggested nerfs to high sec won't help the health of the game any more than many other ideas out there.

Stopped reading right there. As we've demonstrated several times, you can't make nullsec industry viable without nerfing highsec industry. This is not controversial. It's fact. Don't pretend otherwise.

Let's be honest here people (even if only because you need to take a break from ISK scamming every once in a while)...

It seems you can't go 24 hours without some ganker posting another tired "nerf hisec" thread. It's tired. It's old.

Stopped reading right there. As we've demonstrated several times, you can't make nullsec industry viable without nerfing highsec industry. This is not controversial. It's fact. Don't pretend otherwise.

Good, you have identified a facet of this problem, ergo that the base refinery rate for a POS even after the upgrade is only 50%.

Quit being so damned self righteous. The often suggested nerfs to high sec won't help the health of the game any more than many other ideas out there.

Stopped reading right there. As we've demonstrated several times, you can't make nullsec industry viable without nerfing highsec industry. This is not controversial. It's fact. Don't pretend otherwise.

It was more the point,

We're not here, because we're there. Everyone seems to have a problem with us not being where they expect us to be, but when people explain why we're not there they don't want to hear it.

As one model high seccer put it, "we would control the economy!!!1" Which is a bunch of bullshit. We'd control OUR eocnomies.

When was the last time some of you high sec ******* dropped a billion in a null market, buying **** made by a null industrialist? Because I've gone through over 3 billion this buying **** in high sec.

Honestly, I'm at the point of just wanting to repsond to most of these threads with a big go **** yourself to the ignorants that have no idea how **** works outside of high sec. All I see are people who want the unbalance to remain because it benefits them.

This is where the null vs high sec animosity stems. Bunch of self entiltled twats who want everything for nothing and have no problem telling the rest of us to go **** ourselves because this is how it should be. Nevermind that those of us joining player run corps in null sec, with much higher difficulty aren't being rewarded; while guys are flying around high sec half braindead and alseep, putting in no effort, crying when someone so much as targets them (oh ******* god, he bumped me!), and getting better rewards for playing on "I'm a down child difficulty".

Can't know anything of the sort without trying.

It could just as easily be focused around how easy it is to jump goods into nullsec cheaply and safely.

In fact I'd say it'd take nerfing high sec into oblivion for your method to work if done on its own.

Obliterating the game's economy is not something that creates balance.

Why would someone from high sec go to the place where things are more expensive to buy stuff? Which really is the thing. Because null sec has low supply, they have high prices. This isn't going to magically change. An interesting part of this is a lot of the most valuable materials come from null sec, but they still bring it to high sec to sell. This isn't going to change unless high sec became null sec, which isn't a reasonable expectation no matter how much some people want it to be. And don't give me that crap about you guys not being rewarded. The most valuable stuff is in null sec and wormhole space. If that isn't a reward, then what the hell is? I'll be heading out to wormhole space and null eventually for just that reason. I'm more than for ways to prevent shipments from reaching null sec safely. Not however for ideas that instead cater to whining about not being able to do whatever they want, when they want, where they want. And that's my problem with a lot of these null sec "suggestions". While their intentions might be one thing, the results go far far beyond their intentions. It always ends up being about these massive drastic changes that change pretty much everything except what's actually broken in the first place or ends up breaking other things, and really those sort of ideas aren't worth much.

We all play different games.

Try to enjoy yours.

We all play different games.

No, we sure as hell do not. You're not only wrong, you're spouting bull that goes against everything this game stands for.

Nobody is suggesting that. Nobody wants that. God, you're dense...

Your solution greatly reduces the supply, which increases cost at a rather high rate. This supply is lost both from the refining nerf and more ships getting destroyed out in null, so even if you found what would be the balance "in theory", the increased production costs and startup cause problems of their own that you're ignoring, trying to act like it doesn't exist. These things are things that can't be easily estimated and a mistake there WILL cause massive problems. Assuming you can get enough industrials to stick around in the first place.

Higher prices are a good thing. The game is already facing heavy power creep. Making it harder to acquire "things" means more generic every day content merely from the creation and acquisition of goods.

The people who care about a hisec indy nerf are the miniscule minority of super-industrialists that produce on such a massive scale in the pure safety of hisec that the vast majority of players are priced right out of even trying to compete. Everyone else shouldn't suffer poorer game play because a few people want to have their mega empires with 14 accounts all minmaxing enormous industrial chains perfectly safe from any form of interference or new market entrants.

A thousand tears for the ~200 hypernerds that will no longer be able to price everyone else out of a major element of the game.

Your solution greatly reduces the supply, which increases cost at a rather high rate. This supply is lost both from the refining nerf and more ships getting destroyed out in null, so even if you found what would be the balance "in theory", the increased production costs and startup cause problems of their own that you're ignoring, trying to act like it doesn't exist. These things are things that can't be easily estimated and a mistake there WILL cause massive problems. Assuming you can get enough industrials to stick around in the first place.

Supply of what? Minerals? Did you consider the fact that because a really freaking huge amount of minerals goes into building ships to be exported to null that constitutes a much greater drain on supply than the loss of perfect refining?