We should really keep the status quo with the current game economy because it is currently working.

Maybe you shouldn't assume what people are and aren't involved in and actually converse. Almost every time I see a statement like this, its always crying "no you're wrong!" and whining like a child rather than trying to prove it. Jumping to assumptions about what someone is or isn't involved in frankly is immature or desperation. It isn't a legitimate claim without something actually backing it up. I could have just said "none of you are economist, you don't know what you're talking about, stfu" but that would have been immature and hypocritical. That statement isn't much different. You don't suddenly hold the only right to opinion for any reason and others could very easily know about something but possess a different viewpoint from you. If you want to bash it rather than talk about it, then really, it stops being about opinions and is just being childish.

I see sort of what he's getting at about all that stuff generally being exported to high sec to be produced in safety, I just don't agree with the method of handling it.

Captain Tardbar has also argued in the past that all expansions since Dominion are good because subs are higher now than then.

I see sort of what he's getting at about all that stuff generally being exported to high sec to be produced in safety, I just don't agree with the method of handling it.

Kind of sick of seeing this.

No, we do not play different games. It's the same game, with the same rules, and the same economy.
You are not the no impact man just because you fly arund high sec, shooting rocks.

Your stance of 'cyno mechanics are the problem' is flawed because it seeks to treat the symptom instead of the cause.

Do you really think if CCP got rid of Hi-Sec people would come out of the wood work demanding to play EVE?

People would sign up in droves to shoot people like you, then do crazy things like build T1 goods and sell them on the market for higher than their mineral cost because now there is some sort of profit margin to play with.

High Sec people are ery good at seeing only that which pleases them, and with the exception of rare (in the grand scheme of things) suicide gank, the game lets them keep on believing what they want without consequence.

People would sign up in droves to shoot people like you, then do crazy things like build T1 goods and sell them on the market for higher than their mineral cost because now there is some sort of profit margin to play with.

He would unsub or never undock !!

Why don't you get all those people to start a kickstarter campaign to donate money to CCP if they get rid of hisec?

Or maybe you will have to use all that money to buy plex to pay for you 10 billion ships since no one is making ships anymore at reasonable prices.

Or maybe you will have to use all that money to buy plex to pay for you 10 billion ships since no one is making ships anymore at reasonable prices.

Not quite advocating for that but you are close, I would rather see the wardec evasion exploit removed and NPC corps to be something to avoid rather than to live in. Sounds a lot more reasonable, because it was the way highsec was designed to be.

For a guy who seemingly knows a lot about industry, you sure know nothing about market forces.

Jita isn't the entirety of the economy.

A normal trade hub in high sec isn't selling everything at production cost because there aren't 100k people trying to sell the same thing as you.

If it cost you more to build something in high sec, even at NORMAL market value, those items would still be more then profitable.

What would happen then is that jita costs would go up, because it's the large trade hubs that are primarilly where everyting is sold at near production levels, and the volumes in jita will always keep goods at near production levels.


Real simply,

Lets say "something" costs 1 million to build today. Doesn't really matter where you build it, it cost roughly 1 million.
In random system, 10 jumps from a major trade hub, that something sells for 3 million.
In the null sec, I want to sell that item for 3 million.
In Jita that item is sold for 1 million.
It gets purchased in buik because it makes sense to buy something for the same price you can build it.
It ends up in a null market for 10k over 1 million.

If you make that item cost 1.75 million to build in high sec, the guy 10 jumps from jita can still sell it for 3 million and it would be a good profit.

If you make it cost 1 million to build in null, then I'm more likely to get closer to being able to sell it for 2 million instead of 1.

Null sec can't be buffed to do that. CCP would have to make the lines pay me everytime I use them with the way things are set up today.

How do you buff a production line that has no intall or per hour cost? You can't, you can however increase the line costs in high sec.

And that's the situation that needs to happen in order for there to be fair competition.

I'm not sure if you see the cause and effect in economics land.

Jita and Hi-Sec industry keeps the prices low which helps people on fixed income (Missioners and Ratters).

If hi sec went away tomorrow the first thing that would happen is that mineral prices would go through the roof simply because miners would be unable to mine (at the rate that they do).

This would lead to massive cost increases to people who manafacture who get less of a profit. Therefore people who manufacture would have to have to sell their wares at a higher price.

People who are on fixed income (missioners and ratters) would suddenly discover their incomes are no longer able to purchase the same amount of goods as before.

Unable to replace their ship losses (also related to loss of hi-sec) without resorting to plex, many players that are on fixed income will consider quitting the game because of the fact they can no longer afford to play.

Simple.
Economics.

I'm not sure if you see the cause and effect in economics land.

Jita and Hi-Sec industry keeps the prices low which helps people on fixed income (Missioners and Ratters).

If hi sec went away tomorrow the first thing that would happen is that mineral prices would go through the roof simply because miners would be unable to mine (at the rate that they do).

This would lead to massive cost increases to people who manafacture who get less of a profit. Therefore people who manufacture would have to have to sell their wares at a higher price.

People who are on fixed income (missioners and ratters) would suddenly discover their incomes are no longer able to purchase the same amount of goods as before.

Unable to replace their ship losses (also related to loss of hi-sec) without resorting to plex, many players that are on fixed income will consider quitting the game because of the fact they can no longer afford to play.

Simple.
Economics.

[edit]

By fixed income I mean incomes that are limited simply by the static numbers CCP sets on certain tasks. When you kill a rat you earn a fixed amount of isk set by CCP. Those incomes do not change because market prices do.

Not quite advocating for that but you are close, I would rather see the wardec evasion exploit removed and NPC corps to be something to avoid rather than to live in. Sounds a lot more reasonable, because it was the way highsec was designed to be.

For a guy who seemingly knows a lot about industry, you sure know nothing about market forces.

You are asking CCP to modify the economy in your favor. You are basically saying "Make the game so I earn more money than other people."

I am saying "Leave the game alone. It works."

The game works for a large portion of the player base. The shear activity alone in Jita shows that people are participating in the current system. In fact Jita is often full on the weekends. People can't get in to make their trades it is so popular.

If you can sell goods at a higher price in Nullsec why don't you just HTFU up and haul goods from Jita to Null and make money that way.

I'm not sure if you see the cause and effect in economics land....

If hi sec went away tomorrow the first thing that would happen is that mineral prices would go through the roof simply because miners would be unable to mine (at the rate that they do).

This would lead to massive cost increases to people who manafacture who get less of a profit. Therefore people who manufacture would have to have to sell their wares at a higher price.

People who are on fixed income (missioners and ratters) would suddenly discover their incomes are no longer able to purchase the same amount of goods as before.

Unable to replace their ship losses (also related to loss of hi-sec) without resorting to plex, many players that are on fixed income will consider quitting the game because of the fact they can no longer afford to play.

Simple.
Economics.

You could buy a drake in Jita for 35m, that's damn near what it costs to build with no waste and line costs.

Pretty much anywhere else in EVE, that isn't one of the major trade hubs, you can get 50-60 million for them.

JIta is not the entirely of the economy.

I'm sorry, you're either full of **** or just out of touch.

Jita wasn't desinged by CCP. Jita was never intended to be what it is today.

The playerbase is entirely responcible for jita. CCP had to remove all the content from the system because of us. They did not design high sec around a jita trade hub.

You making baseless arguements, trying to imply that jita is by design and for purpose. It is not, and you are incredibly wrong.


WTF do I know. I only spent 5 years playing entirely in high sec, and the last year or so in null.
Jita is not benefitting the rest of the game, it only benefits the people that use it to sell large volumes of stuff.

People outside of jita, and away from the major hubs sell **** at normal prices.

People are not poor in EVE for crying out loud. New players do not struggle to make ISK. Missions and mining are absurdly easy, and both pay extremely well, everying in EVE pays extremely well.

It takes NO EFFORT to make a million isk an hour. You would have to be at your computer dead to not be able to do 1m an hour, and I have a feeling even a dead guy could do it.

No, I'm saying that production costs are to low in high sec.

Why is it ok for you assholes to tell me that I shouldn't be allowe to dictate how you play. All the while you guys trivialize my entire playstyle.

These responses are exactly what makes me want to just tell people to go **** themselves. It's hypocritical bullshit. Youy guys get invonvenienced once in a blue moon and it's to the forums to demand CCP do something.

Bumping!

The **** if it's ok for me to point out a legitimate issue that actually impacts an entire playstyle.

How the hell would you guys like it if everytime I shot a rat in null, isk was removed from your wallet.

You cant understand how that annology even works because you don't participate in this playstyle. You're not a ******* null industrialist, you have no frigging clue.

Missioners and ratters can do this thing called 'reshipping to a barge' if the incentive to mine and manufacture was so much higher incentivized, Economics Master.

If they want to mine and manufacture, chances are they're already doing it. Pushing someone to do what they don't want to do is probably the worst possible thing you can do in a game.

So you want CCP to say to a large portion of the player base "Sorry you spent months training up those skills and spent millions or billions on those ships that you no longer have a viable option to play in a game play style that you obviously were enjoying. Also sorry that mining is so boring. Maybe the constant ganking will make it exciting."

Do you think those players are going to keep playing or just cut their losses and quit outright.