In PvE - you can on BS/BC's (if you can't, learn to fit a missile boat), and everything smaller than that will get one-volley'ed once the changes are through (except elite frigs/cruisers).

.

Yeah.. OK. Please do not misunderstand me. But I use CCC rigs and with my outskilled char with All Level 5 I do not recognize the speed of my enemy MISSION-NPC anymore. Perhaps the influence of Speed is something which will work for enemy frigates. But with my current skillset I even shoot frigates with my Cruise Missiles. Sure not the elite ones. But therefore I have drones.
Cruiser size is absolute NO problem for me (in missions). If they use a AB or MWD.. ist equal. Two or three salves (depending on NPC type) and they are gone.
I just recognized that I will miss the 25% rate of fire Bonus. I kill Frigates with CM. I have no Problem with explo Velo. Absolute null Problems. But I have a Problem with NO Rate Of Fire Bonus. Thats all. With my skillset; a ROF has much more influence than the laughable explo Velo or Speed of my NPC's. I have done missions nearly more than 5 years. And I know what I am talking about.

Like I said, you're not hitting them for full damage, you're hitting them hard, I'm not denying that, but its still not full damage.

+

You'll still volley BC's and BS like you're used to,

but you'll also kill smaller craft faster.

Go find the EFT mock up with these numbers, install it, and judge for yourself, stop trying to do math in your head when you dont have all the math in your head to do.

Are you asking me why better range and tracking are bad right now?

Better tracking means more dps applied to the target, better range means farther reach before damage starts to decrease or stop all together.

Its not like a little bit more tracking, with BS 5 you're looking at 37.5% more tracking, no matter what geniuses in that thread are telling you that is a relatively HUGE increase in overall tracking, that would require about 4+ fitting mods to achieve, essentially between the two bonuses you're getting 4 free tracking enhances on your ship that you wont have to fit in the slightest way.

No I'm asking you why they are "amazing" or in any way better than an Abaddon since the two ships mods and fitting are largely the same.




No it doesn't, beams already have the best long range weapon tracking and don't have a lot of trouble hitting cruiser targets at their optimal as long as their not at perfect orbit. What will this tracking bonus allow you to hit that you weren't hitting before? On the other side, if you're pulse fit and need the tracking, then why is an optimal range bonus useful, great another 8km of optimal or way less with IN MF crystal. Again, I'm not saying they're completely worthless, just inferior to both of the Abaddon's.



Lol 4 fitting mods? It's a single scripted faction tracking computer or only 7% more than a scripted TC II. Lets not go overboard. Those "geniuses" in the other thread actually backed up their claim with math while you're saying "omg noobs tracking paired with range for BS's is awesome".

Even if you thought you needed that much tracking to go after BC's why would you not use an Oracle? It can fit and fire a full rack of tach's that would cripple an Apoc's fit and do it at half the price.

But I'm not hitting them for full dmg... sure

Yup, I will kill them in one volley because of the 25% more volley damage,

Go fly the ship first, thank you.

POS-bashing with torps. 8 effective launchers vs. previous 9.3.

Lol 4 fitting mods? It's a single scripted faction tracking computer or only 7% more than a scripted TC II. Lets not go overboard. .

Kind of sad my torp CNR got murdered; no longer any good as a herocat capital killer.

Still, I can switch right over to the navy phoon so it's not a huge deal to me.

Wrong. Medium rails.

No, its called ignoring you because you have no idea what you're talking about, the changes to both the Apoc and the Napoc are amazing, and its literally dudes like the idiot a few posts above me who's pissed he can't fit a tractor beam and you who want a cap use bonus or some crap like that on the Apoc, or even worse, the CVA guy asking for falloff on lasers

wait what?

wait what?

Be nice guys, the poor roleplayer just really wants to know what it feels like to fly minmatar

ARMAGEDDON NAVY ISSUE

Amarr Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% Large Energy Turret rate of fire
-10% Large Energy Turret cap use

T2 tracking enhancer (the mod I quoted) gives you 9.5% tracking, this bonus will be stacking penalized with each new tracking enhancer you put on.

Meaning to get near 37.5% you will need a MINIMUM OF FIVE FITTINGS TO EQUAL THIS BONUS.

You see a Tracking Enhancer is the only thing that gives BOTH bonuses (tracking and optimal) so its the one I used for the comparison, those "geniuses" in the other thread simply don't understand what the hell they're talking about.

Why an optimal bonus? How about pushing scorch out to 90km? And while your out there tracking nearly as good as medium guns while applying BS gun sized DPS? (medium pulse lasar tracking .08 napoc MP II tracking will be around .04)

Also just because you were hitting doesn't mean you were hitting near hard enough with beams, imagine hitting hard even IF they have a perfect orbit, probably near doubling your applied dps.


Lastly, everything you're posting about seems to assume that you MUST balance a ship around PVE, whereas the Navy Apoc is VERY popular in PVP, as a fleet line battleship, this just made it better.

Just not for PL though right? I can't seem to find a BS battle on your killboards where an Apoc or Napoc were used even once (checked the most recent 10 large BS battles). Lots of Abaddons and Geddons though, but what do I know.

First, I never mentioned anything about PvE. You said 4 tracking mods at first so I quoted you TC's number and why you only need 1. How 37.5% on 0.04 tracking gets you anywhere close to 0.08 for medium is beyond me or why you'd consistently want that at 90km over a straight damage bonus.

Yea its in there, you couldn't make up the stuff that they're flinging in this thread.


Like the guy who swears his missiles always hit for full damage, or the other guy who jumped in some dudes butt because TD's work on missiles and have since retribution or the fact that tracking on BS guns is a wasted bonus or OH MY GOD IT FEELS LIKE MY HEAD MIGHT EXPLODE FROM THE HEAPING MOUNDS OF BULLSHIT

Yea its in there, you couldn't make up the stuff that they're flinging in this thread.


Like the guy who swears his missiles always hit for full damage, or the other guy who jumped in some dudes butt because TD's work on missiles and have since retribution or the fact that tracking on BS guns is a wasted bonus or OH MY GOD IT FEELS LIKE MY HEAD MIGHT EXPLODE FROM THE HEAPING MOUNDS OF BULLSHIT

Just not for PL though right? I can't seem to find a BS battle on your killboards where an Apoc or Napoc were used even once (checked the most recent 10 large BS battles). Lots of Abaddons and Geddons though, but what do I know.

First, I never mentioned anything about PvE. You said 4 tracking mods at first so I quoted you TC's number and why you only need 1.

you're getting 4 free tracking enhances on your ship

How 37.5% on 0.04 tracking gets you anywhere close to 0.08 for medium is beyond me or why you'd consistently want that at 90km over a straight damage bonus.

Well I've been moderately converted.
I do believe (which I didn't before) that the tracking bonus on the Apoc and Napoc is an improvement over what we had before.
I still believe however that lasers are in need of a lot of work.

And thus we have the problem. If you want to know what a 37.5% tracking bonus looks like on a napoc, fit 5 tracking enhancers and look at the tracking on a mega pulse two. Its not that hard, this isn't quantum physics here, and if you can't see why you'd want damage projection and tracking out to 90km then I firmly believe there might not be any saving you. If the idea of applying DPS from 0-90+km (with 2 optimal range scripted TC's you'll actually break 100km) with great tracking doesn't make sense to you then you have literally no idea what you're doing.

Ok then Malcanis just made my enemy list.

FOREVER MALCANIS, YOU HEAR ME, FOREVER.

Yea i know its better but I'm trying to put these changes into terms the lvl 4 mission runners and mechanic nubbin crowd might understand because one guy literally honest to go was mad that its not a fall off bonus....on lasars.