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Trolly McForumalt Republic University Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2013.05.23 19:12:00 - [1321] - Quote Ersahi Kir wrote: Seeing as how the fleet pest is hands down the worst faction battleship by miles I don't think it should be the gold standard for comparisons. The fact that the double turret bonused fleet pest is worse than the single bonused fleet typhoon says more about how horrible the design of the fleet pest is. How does the fleet tempest compare to the CNR? Somewhat favorably IMO. Just further illustrates the problem with the fleet typhoon.
Johnson Oramara Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 87	Posted - 2013.05.23 19:16:00 - [1322] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Johnson Oramara wrote: The drone bay is exactly what allows those ridiculous dps numbers on it. Losing 2 sentrys makes it a little more acceptable. I'm quite against nerfing the Phoon FI's drones, but I'd be more than happy to see a 5/5 layout. -Liang Actually, i might have jumped too quickly to that conclusion. I have been playing with autocannon+bouncer fitted TFI now and this just seems to underline how much more powerful the cruise+bouncer fitted TFI is. With ac's you get 1375dps at 5km, 1092dps at 20km, 855dps at 50km, 513dps at 81.25km which is it's targeting range. With cruises you still get 1349dps to 60km, 1259dps to 81.25km. And autocannons have the better rof damage bonus... cruise missiles are a bit on the op side.
stoicfaux 2748	Posted - 2013.05.23 19:22:00 - [1323] - Quote A potentially easy nerf/fix for the Fleet Typhoon is to cut its CPU. Which forces it to be an armor tank. An armor tank reduces the slots available for DDAs and BCUs. Large armor repper : ~50 CPU. XLSB: 170 to 230 CPU. Armor hardener: 16-36 CPU Shield hardener: 30 to 44 CPU DDA: 30 CPU Drone Link Augmenter: 55 CPU Garde II x5 : No DDA: 300 DPS + 1 DDA: 369 DPS + 2 DDA: 443 DPS + 3 DDA: 501 DPS With only 7 low slots for BCUs and tank, you have to decide between 4 BCUs and a 3 slot tank, or 3 BCUs and a 4 slot tank. I would like 8 low slots, but having 4 BCUs + a 4 slot tank + unbonused drones might still be a bit much.
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 747	Posted - 2013.05.23 19:28:00 - [1324] - Quote Gankalol Fleet Typhoon <3 honey me loves you removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 1905	Posted - 2013.05.23 19:30:00 - [1325] - Quote Johnson Oramara wrote: Few pages ago you said you hate using drones. Also using that strategy with MJD is tricky depending how many frigs there are some may catch up to you and with MJD's cooldown time you won't be doing that a lot. Now imagine a scramming frig in your deadly situation. You read that wrong, i don't "hate" using drones I just don't some times, sometimes I do. for instance when using a CNR (or 'Snake or more commonly nowadays a Navy Domi) as support in a dual boxing set up I use sentry drones assigned to my mach/nightmare/whatever. I don't use drones when I don['t have to because the UI can be a pain, but I never said i hated them. The current CNR with 3 BCUs, 2 DDAs and 3rd Wardens or Curators and an MJD is pretty nice. Quote: The range is ~50km where TP's still work fine. yea I know, I was responding to where you said "the rats are always coming at you". Quote: I actually use it as it was meant to and really like it. When i have someone for salvaging/looting i really like my CNR too. After Odyssey i will like my Golem even more but when i have friend salvaging/looting then TFI is going to be absolutely murdering the missions.[/quote[ Sand box, i use ships in creative ways, not the way they were "meant" if I can get away with it. This is why those little advantages mean so much. But even when used in "orthodox" fashion I like the CNR more than the Golem. I just can't personally be arsed to juggle tractors, salvagers, TPs, and targets. [quote] Btw, can you post some of your CNR fittings here? pretty standard set ups. When I'm doing something where I know i'll be using an MJD I got with medium deadspace booster, boost amp+ hardeners, BCUs and DCU in the lows, rigors and flares in the rig slots always. For tougher sites or missions I've used ASBs, or Deadpsace XL boosters + cap injectors. Lately (in the last month i've played with the 3 BCU/2DDA sentry MJD CNR and man, have I been missing out (i just never though of the CNR like that, but it's cool. The only thing Im going to miss from my high sec cnr is the ATS or dronle link aug I usually use. It's going to be more of a problem in null because I won't have a cloak, but that just means rat in systems with stations or poses (or have enough safe spots to warp around for 5 minutes after npc aggro so I can log. Noting I say is going to make you like the new CNR, i just don't think it's this terrible dog of a ship you seem to. It works fine for me.
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 1905	Posted - 2013.05.23 19:31:00 - [1326] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: A potentially easy nerf/fix for the Fleet Typhoon is to cut its CPU. Which forces it to be an armor tank. An armor tank reduces the slots available for DDAs and BCUs. Large armor repper : ~50 CPU. XLSB: 170 to 230 CPU. Armor hardener: 16-36 CPU Shield hardener: 30 to 44 CPU DDA: 30 CPU Drone Link Augmenter: 55 CPU Garde II x5 : No DDA: 300 DPS + 1 DDA: 369 DPS + 2 DDA: 443 DPS + 3 DDA: 501 DPS With only 7 low slots for BCUs and tank, you have to decide between 4 BCUs and a 3 slot tank, or 3 BCUs and a 4 slot tank. I would like 8 low slots, but having 4 BCUs + a 4 slot tank + unbonused drones might still be a bit much. I can dig it.
Ersahi Kir Infinite Mobility SpaceMonkey's Alliance 179	Posted - 2013.05.23 19:35:00 - [1327] - Quote Trolly McForumalt wrote: Ersahi Kir wrote: And now we're just shotgunning insults blindly hoping to hit the mark. You missed. The 125 drone bandwidth pretty much has to stay. With the way they pulled the carpet out from under many typhoon pilots with the new basic phoon they more or less promised to keep the main qualities of the old typhoon in the fleet typhoon. Namely, the large drone bay, armor tank, and the flexibility of fitting missiles, turrets, or other utility highs. Now I wouldn't be too opposed to going 5/5 turret-launcher split, or moving the bonus down to 5% RoF, or some other things to balance out the damage are fair arguments. But keeping the 8 highs, 125 drone bandwidth, and at least 7 lows are off the table to keep the spirit of the old typhoon alive. If you're insulted by my claim that you don't want your (increasingly apparent) 'new favorite toy' to get nerfed then that's your problem - not mine. Your reaction only makes it look like I 'hit the mark' as you said - otherwise you would've just let it go. Regardless... The drones and slot layout should absolutely be on the table. Not that what we type here will decide anything - it's CPP's call and I can guess what will happen... nothing. The stats will go live as is (unfortunately). Yeah, I'm an undercover fleet typhoon pilot. You caught me. But the statement still stands: 125 drone bandwidth, 8 highs, at least 7 lows. They can tinker with the bonuses to get the DPS where they want it, but they really need to keep the core of the typhoon Trolly McForumalt wrote: Ersahi Kir wrote: Seeing as how the fleet pest is hands down the worst faction battleship by miles I don't think it should be the gold standard for comparisons. The fact that the double turret bonused fleet pest is worse than the single bonused fleet typhoon says more about how horrible the design of the fleet pest is. How does the fleet tempest compare to the CNR? Somewhat favorably IMO. Just further illustrates the problem with the fleet typhoon. The don't compare well at all because they do completely different things. But some people are saying the new CNR is good, and some are saying it's bad. Everyone is saying the fleet pest is just bad.
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 284	Posted - 2013.05.23 19:36:00 - [1328] - Quote Lets not lose sight of the fact that the CNR is in /dire/ need of more CPU. DIRE.
stoicfaux 2748	Posted - 2013.05.23 19:38:00 - [1329] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: A potentially easy nerf/fix for the Fleet Typhoon is to cut its CPU. Which forces it to be an armor tank. An armor tank reduces the slots available for DDAs and BCUs. And here's an example that uses 705.81 CPU out of 825. My 1500 DPS Fleet Typhoon required a Co-processor and used 847.31 out of 907.5 CPU. So drop CPU (with skills V) to around 725 or so? This seems reasonable at a quick glance: 459 sustained tank versus EM/Therm 1168 raw DPS 868 with missiles 300 with Garde II. [Typhoon Fleet Issue, odyssey armor] Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Drone Navigation Computer II Drone Navigation Computer II Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II Garde II x5
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 1905	Posted - 2013.05.23 19:40:00 - [1330] - Quote Ersahi Kir wrote: Everyone is saying the fleet pest is just bad. Bad as in "bad ass super awesomesauce". Ok ok, yet, it's a bit much.
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 1905	Posted - 2013.05.23 19:42:00 - [1331] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: stoicfaux wrote: A potentially easy nerf/fix for the Fleet Typhoon is to cut its CPU. Which forces it to be an armor tank. An armor tank reduces the slots available for DDAs and BCUs. And here's an example that uses 705.81 CPU out of 825. My 1500 DPS Fleet Typhoon required a Co-processor and used 847.31 out of 907.5 CPU. So drop CPU (with skills V) to around 725 or so? This seems reasonable at a quick glance: 459 sustained tank versus EM/Therm 1168 raw DPS 868 with missiles 300 with Garde II. [Typhoon Fleet Issue, odyssey armor] Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Drone Navigation Computer II Drone Navigation Computer II Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II Garde II x5 I too like fast Sentry drones!
Sunuva Gunn Glowing Goat Black Fence. 21	Posted - 2013.05.23 19:43:00 - [1332] - Quote I'd missed this post. I've been whinging in the main Minnie BS thread for a while saying that I'd quit is CCP messed the Fleet Phoon up as much as they messed up the Phoon. I'm out. Accounts are canceled. (I'm such a drama queen, but I really did love the old Typhoon and Fleet Typhoon. These changes have broken my heart.)
Ersahi Kir Infinite Mobility SpaceMonkey's Alliance 179	Posted - 2013.05.23 19:49:00 - [1333] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Ersahi Kir wrote: Everyone is saying the fleet pest is just bad. Bad as in "bad ass super awesomesauce". Ok ok, yet, it's a bit much. Fit for a fleet pest that people are calling good?
Johnson Oramara Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 87	Posted - 2013.05.23 20:04:00 - [1334] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: pretty standard set ups. When I'm doing something where I know i'll be using an MJD I got with medium deadspace booster, boost amp+ hardeners, BCUs and DCU in the lows, rigors and flares in the rig slots always. For tougher sites or missions I've used ASBs, or Deadpsace XL boosters + cap injectors. Lately (in the last month i've played with the 3 BCU/2DDA sentry MJD CNR and man, have I been missing out (i just never though of the CNR like that, but it's cool. The only thing Im going to miss from my high sec cnr is the ATS or dronle link aug I usually use. It's going to be more of a problem in null because I won't have a cloak, but that just means rat in systems with stations or poses (or have enough safe spots to warp around for 5 minutes after npc aggro so I can log. Noting I say is going to make you like the new CNR, i just don't think it's this terrible dog of a ship you seem to. It works fine for me. Just tried those on EFT and i guess i have to give TFI a spin on SiSi. Less sig, faster, more sentrys + drone bay. I imagine ~300dps on the sentrys are more than capable to take care of all the frigs and cruisers since sadly the TP has to go. But that is not a issue since i will be shooting only the battleships with missiles and with frigs and cruisers quickly out of the way, apply even more dps on them. Oh, and i can slap DLA's on it too Looks promising, sadly this will likely have to wait until tomorrow.
Trolly McForumalt Republic University Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2013.05.23 20:11:00 - [1335] - Quote Ersahi Kir wrote: The don't compare well at all because they do completely different things. But some people are saying the new CNR is good, and some are saying it's bad. Everyone is saying the fleet pest is just bad. The fleet typhoon does everything. Also, the stars of the night sky are still present during the day. It is only due to the brightness of the sun that you aren't able to see them.
Ersahi Kir Infinite Mobility SpaceMonkey's Alliance 179	Posted - 2013.05.23 20:22:00 - [1336] - Quote Trolly McForumalt wrote: Ersahi Kir wrote: The don't compare well at all because they do completely different things. But some people are saying the new CNR is good, and some are saying it's bad. Everyone is saying the fleet pest is just bad. The fleet typhoon does everything. Also, the stars of the night sky are still present during the day. It is only due to the brightness of the sun that you aren't able to see them. Then why don't we all just fly the fleet typhoon and stop all the arguing. Because sun and stars and brightness and whatever.
Sunuva Gunn Glowing Goat Black Fence. 21	Posted - 2013.05.23 20:23:00 - [1337] - Quote Trolly McForumalt wrote: The fleet typhoon does everything. It always has done. I'm somewhat baffled as to why they had to change the low slot layout though. It means I'd have to rip out my current armour tank (if I was going to hang around long enough to have to fly the new version).
Trolly McForumalt Republic University Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2013.05.23 20:29:00 - [1338] - Quote Sunuva Gunn wrote: Trolly McForumalt wrote: The fleet typhoon does everything. It always has done. I'm somewhat baffled as to why they had to change the low slot layout though. It means I'd have to rip out my current armour tank (if I was going to hang around long enough to have to fly the new version). Ersahi Kir wrote: Then why don't we all just fly the fleet typhoon and stop all the arguing. A butter knife cuts. Why would we ever need a steak knife? The current bonuses are at 5% and it has 5 each of turret and launcher slots. That and cruise missiles used to suck. Compare the (unneeded) buff they gave the fleet typhoon to the... whatever it is they gave the CNR.
Trolly McForumalt Republic University Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2013.05.23 20:33:00 - [1339] - Quote Ersahi Kir wrote: Trolly McForumalt wrote: Ersahi Kir wrote: The don't compare well at all because they do completely different things. But some people are saying the new CNR is good, and some are saying it's bad. Everyone is saying the fleet pest is just bad. The fleet typhoon does everything. Also, the stars of the night sky are still present during the day. It is only due to the brightness of the sun that you aren't able to see them. Then why don't we all just fly the fleet typhoon and stop all the arguing. Because sun and stars and brightness and whatever. That will probably happen (in terms of navy BSes). Thank god for Minmatar FW plex farmers, eh?
Sunuva Gunn Glowing Goat Black Fence. 21	Posted - 2013.05.23 20:33:00 - [1340] - Quote Trolly McForumalt wrote: Compare the (unneeded) buff they gave the fleet typhoon to the... whatever it is they gave the CNR. I do agree that a lot of the 'tinkering' that has gone on here has been completely unnecessary and does more to make people bicker than it does to please the playerbase (re: the fact that some Amarr battleships are now a good deal faster than Minnie ones).
Deerin Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy 170	Posted - 2013.05.23 20:52:00 - [1341] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: CPU nerf suggestion You are only looking at it from PvE angle.....and using faction mods to calculate a CPU limit. Armor PvP fits tend to be CPU intensive too. To prevent fphoon from stepping shield tankers toes is easy. 8 4 8 5/5 keep new bonuses. Will make the ship a strict armor tanker and will open up shield tanking role for Fpest.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Initiative 3703	Posted - 2013.05.23 20:57:00 - [1342] - Quote Deerin wrote: stoicfaux wrote: CPU nerf suggestion You are only looking at it from PvE angle.....and using faction mods to calculate a CPU limit. Armor PvP fits tend to be CPU intensive too. To prevent fphoon from stepping shield tankers toes is easy. 8 4 8 5/5 keep new bonuses. Will make the ship a strict armor tanker and will open up shield tanking role for Fpest. I'm ok with this. Shield tanking would be possible but not with stacked up painters, omnis and such. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 284	Posted - 2013.05.23 21:09:00 - [1343] - Quote Or we accept that "PvE doesnt matter" and let it be - its not possible to fit such ridiculous gank/no tank in a valid, viable PvP fit on it.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Initiative 3703	Posted - 2013.05.23 21:24:00 - [1344] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: Or we accept that "PvE doesnt matter" and let it be - its not possible to fit such ridiculous gank/no tank in a valid, viable PvP fit on it. If we accept that PVE doesn't matter than the CNR is even more obsolete. Consider a Phoon Fleet vs a CNR: - Less sig - Faster - More EHP - More missile damage - More drone flexibility - More drone damage - Utility highs Consider a Phoon Fleet vs a Pest Fleet: - Less Sig - Faster - Very similar EHP - More damage - More drone flexibility - More drone damage - More utility highs Shall we go on? ;-) -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Icarius The Wings of Maak Defiant Legacy 8	Posted - 2013.05.23 21:40:00 - [1345] - Quote Trolly McForumalt wrote: Compare the (unneeded) buff they gave the fleet typhoon to the... whatever it is they gave the CNR. You are right. The +5% was enough Now with the +7.5% we have a bunch of brainless carebears only interested in their quest for their maximum damage projection against npcs red cross. It s why low slots for them are only good for dmg mods, none of them care about armor tank. It s why some of them even ask for additionnal med slot ... for more shield tank or painters, none of them care about the pvp. And if you want to explain why the loss of a low slot does not worth the +12% rof ...good luck. Only one guy posted a real fit with a point!!! someone we know well in amar fw. Pvp options and versatility are being sacrified. Why? to increase isk/hour in lvl4? to have a npc pawn machine alone in space sourrunded by npcs ... what a great change!!! One word ... distressing Ah .. and my congratulations to the one who proposed a cpu nerf .... with faction fit just after .... clap clap clap ... you can laugh even more by looking for his stats on eve-kill. Do not waste your time looking for a kill with a typhoon, of course there is none.
Rabid Rich Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.05.23 21:56:00 - [1346] - Quote Well said Icarius. ITT: people completely losing their minds over internet spaceships. Take a breath and step away from the computer. And some mod ought to take away liang's posting rights for a week- I think he needs rehab or something . God bless you Ccp rise.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Initiative 3704	Posted - 2013.05.23 22:01:00 - [1347] - Quote Rabid Rich wrote: Well said Icarius. ITT: people completely losing their minds over internet spaceships. Take a breath and step away from the computer. And some mod ought to take away liang's posting rights for a week- I think he needs rehab or something . God bless you Ccp rise. Why would I need rehab? I'm perfectly fine. This is my latest picture: http://i.imgur.com/Rsy0SqU.jpg -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Mina Sebiestar Mactabilis Simplex Cursus 356	Posted - 2013.05.23 22:24:00 - [1348] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: stoicfaux wrote: A potentially easy nerf/fix for the Fleet Typhoon is to cut its CPU. Which forces it to be an armor tank. An armor tank reduces the slots available for DDAs and BCUs. And here's an example that uses 713.81 CPU out of 825. My 1500 DPS Fleet Typhoon required a Co-processor and used 847.31 out of 907.5 CPU. So drop CPU (with skills V) to around ~~725~~ or so? edit: new CPU would need to be lower. Will contemplate it later. This seems reasonable at a quick glance: 459 sustained tank versus EM/Therm 1168 raw DPS 868 with missiles 300 with Garde II. [Typhoon Fleet Issue, odyssey armor] Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II Garde II x5 edit: Some people like their sentries drones to go fast. Others don't. I'm acquiescing to the unimaginative. nice mwd/mjd sebo eccm mods u got there...it need more faction stuff and less cpu me thinks... what it is used for...no gate medium dmg em l4 only if there is no neuts that is? you only need 2y of training too...seems legit...as in failed to post pve fit that ppl will use before realising that they are doing it wrong and swap to a better ship!!! http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Initiative 3704	Posted - 2013.05.23 22:29:00 - [1349] - Quote Mina Sebiestar wrote: nice mwd/mjd sebo eccm mods u got there...it need more faction stuff and less cpu me thinks... what it is used for...no gate medium dmg em l4 only if there is no neuts that is? you only need 2y of training too...seems legit...as in failed to post pve fit that ppl will use before realising that they are doing it wrong and swap to a better ship!!! Out of curiosity, what kind of mission completion times do you get? I'd love to see a pissing contest between you and stoic over who does better. :) -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Lugalzagezi666 143	Posted - 2013.05.23 22:30:00 - [1350] - Quote Roime wrote: Rest assured that all marauders will be better than navy BS in their specialty, which is PVE, when their time comes. Id say pve is quite general term in eve. You need someone to explain you what specialization means. I guess if some noob asked you, what are hics specialized in, you would answer "pvp." As far as I remember ccps plan is : "Tech 1 is the reference in ship balancing, while faction ships (navy and pirate variants) are most often plain improvements, tech 2 offer a specialized purpose and tech 3 give opportunities for generalization." Not a word implies that t2s should be outclassing faction ships in every way like golem will do to cnr in odyssey. But I guess cnr change along with 1400dps fleet phoon its the part of ccps master plan to make marauders unquestioned kings of "pve." Who knows, maybe we will even see wtfomgbbq blackops ships, since they are obviously "specialized in pvp" and they must be better in their specialty than everything else. Anyway, its good that this discussion is getting somewhere. Not that I believe it will change anything now. Btw anyone mentioning cnr and pvp in one sentence must understand, that without any utility high and proper damage bonus it is basically useless compared to fphoon and navyscorp. Icarius wrote: Only one guy posted a real fit with a point!!! someone we know well in amar fw. Oh, dont worry, you will be seeing more phoons in amarr/minnie fw than you will like. And fit? Depends on use, but for example : 6x cruise launchers, 2x 800acs/2x neuts mwd, web, point, tp/eccm/sebo/cap booster/ewar dc, 2x eanm, 2x plate, 2x bcu trimarks garde 2s/ogre 2s + bunch of lights and ecms

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