| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 [17] 18 .. 18 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Skia Aumer
Atlas Research Group
46
   |
Posted - 2013.05.23 06:40:00 -
[481] - Quote
E'lyna Mis Dimaloun wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:Alright, I've built graphs of damage application for new XL guns, which I'd like to present here: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1305/guns.PNGThe lower graph is for large guns, for reference. They are built for more or less realistic fittings, with 2xTE for autocannons and 2xTC for lasers and blasters. As you can see from those graphs: 1. Blasters and autocannons have exactly the same range performance. It never happened for subcapital guns and I still dont understand why it is made that way for new XL guns. I think it's a way to homogenization, and it's boring. 2. All three weapons have exactly the same effective range. It means lasers sux, just plain and simple. Blasters and projectiles can compete in different categories, for example: blasters win in DPS and tracking, but ACs win in cap-less functioning and selectable damage. But lasers loose it all - mediocre DPS, poor tracking, eat cap, and cannot switch damage type. Fozzie, do you call it a good balance? EDIT: The following graph includes skills and short range ammo effects: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1305/guns2.PNGIn fact, lasers sux even more. Is that Odyssey TE or the current ones?
I used new rebalanced TEs. With 10%/20% bonus. |
Skia Aumer
Atlas Research Group
46
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 06:47:00 -
[482] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:where are the missiles?
oh wait nobody uses those ,especially after naglfar overboost
gj ccp
In my opinion, capital missiles should have splash damage. Otherwise, they'll remain useless. But just imagine - the whole fleet of slowcats is muted with only one Phoenix. Goons in panic! |
Baracuda
FinFleet
Raiden.
33
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 09:03:00 -
[483] - Quote
Thx for nerfing Titans, again. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
Whores in space
344
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 10:53:00 -
[484] - Quote
Still think CCP need to rolefy a bit the dreads. For example. Increase lasers damage but reduce their tracking. They becoem the worse battleship blappers but good against capitals.
And really I still think the Siege module could be changed to nonly disable warp and jump and allow sub light speed. Would at least make the combat more interestign and make the range balancing easier for the devs. |
Skia Aumer
Atlas Research Group
46
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 11:50:00 -
[485] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:And really I still think the Siege module could be changed to nonly disable warp and jump and allow sub light speed. Would at least make the combat more interestign and make the range balancing easier for the devs.
Letting them propel themselves may be too much, but at least bumping should be allowed. |
Vincent Gaines
Cold Moon Destruction.
Transmission Lost
528
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 11:54:00 -
[486] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:
where are the missiles?
Considering missiles don't lose damage over distance, it wouldn't really be applicable to the graph.
Quote:
oh wait nobody uses those ,especially after naglfar overboost
gj ccp
Not "overboost" but quite a boost.
Not a diplo.-á
The above post was edited for spelling. |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
204
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 15:54:00 -
[487] - Quote
ThaMa Gebir wrote:I can only hope you are reinstating the drones and bonus on the Moros or you will have finally kicked it to the grave.
The entire point of having the blasters do the range originally was because EVERYTHING else had the range to hit even large towers with the biggest damaging weapons possible on the ships...
Now you are removing that aswell?
Nice move. Next you will be removing the utility high slot from the megathron... oh wait... you did that already.... PSA: There are other ammo types besides Antimatter! *blows mind*
* * * EXTRA! EXTRA! Coming Summer 2003 in Eve Online: Second Genesis--Ammo Types! No longer will you be forced to fire only Antimatter at -50% optimal range! New ammo types offer various ranges, damage profiles, bonuses to optimal, falloff or cap use! This can all be yours NOW!
|
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
738
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 16:12:00 -
[488] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:PSA: There are other ammo types besides Antimatter! *blows mind*
* * * EXTRA! EXTRA! Coming Summer 2003 in Eve Online: Second Genesis--Ammo Types! No longer will you be forced to fire only Antimatter at -50% optimal range! New ammo types offer various ranges, damage profiles, bonuses to optimal, falloff or cap use! This can all be yours NOW!
Pah, sounds deeply implausible. Next you'll be telling me that the Moros's falloff is being increased such that it does more damage at range without even having to use these magical "different ammo types".  |
Skia Aumer
Atlas Research Group
48
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 07:59:00 -
[489] - Quote
Was my feedback constructive enough? I think it was.
Yet no one from CCP obviously gives a ****.
Unsubscribed from the thread. |
iskflakes
461
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 08:03:00 -
[490] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Was my feedback constructive enough? I think it was.
Yet no one from CCP obviously gives a ****.
Unsubscribed from the thread.
Fozzie left this thread on about page 3, making this an announcement not a request for feedback. He does not want to explain why dreadnoughts have received an average nerf to tracking and optimal, or why the phoenix is still terrible.
- |
Baracuda
FinFleet
Raiden.
33
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 09:03:00 -
[491] - Quote
Fozzie, please explain to us, why you want to nerf titans again. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
Whores in space
350
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 15:35:00 -
[492] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:Was my feedback constructive enough? I think it was.
Yet no one from CCP obviously gives a ****.
Unsubscribed from the thread. Fozzie left this thread on about page 3, making this an announcement not a request for feedback. He does not want to explain why dreadnoughts have received an average nerf to tracking and optimal, or why the phoenix is still terrible.
I can explain that.. They do not want dreads to pop battleships so easily. Simple heh?
They fear that making phoenix good against smaller things woudl make it overpowered against large things unless they change missile mechanics. Simple... And anyoen can see that just annalysing metagame |
iskflakes
462
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 17:15:00 -
[493] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:I can explain that.. They do not want dreads to pop battleships so easily. Simple heh?
They fear that making phoenix good against smaller things woudl make it overpowered against large things unless they change missile mechanics. Simple... And anyoen can see that just annalysing metagame
These changes also affect titans, which are unable to shoot battleships, so your explanation doesn't explain the tracking nerf. If it is fozzie's intention to make blapping harder he should answer in the thread and say so.
- |
J U
The Scope
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.25 06:52:00 -
[494] - Quote
-í-í-á -¦ -ü-¦-+-æ-+ -¦-â-à-¦. -æ-¦-Ç-¦-+-ï, -ç-é-+ -é-â-é -ü-¦-¦-+-¦-é-î.... |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
914
|
Posted - 2013.05.25 13:14:00 -
[495] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:I can explain that.. They do not want dreads to pop battleships so easily. Simple heh?
They fear that making phoenix good against smaller things woudl make it overpowered against large things unless they change missile mechanics. Simple... And anyoen can see that just annalysing metagame These changes also affect titans, which are unable to shoot battleships, so your explanation doesn't explain the tracking nerf. If it is fozzie's intention to make blapping harder he should answer in the thread and say so.
Are you saying this will be the rise of the sig tanking nano moros? =O
BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
|
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
Whores in space
354
|
Posted - 2013.05.25 14:02:00 -
[496] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:I can explain that.. They do not want dreads to pop battleships so easily. Simple heh?
They fear that making phoenix good against smaller things woudl make it overpowered against large things unless they change missile mechanics. Simple... And anyoen can see that just annalysing metagame These changes also affect titans, which are unable to shoot battleships, so your explanation doesn't explain the tracking nerf. If it is fozzie's intention to make blapping harder he should answer in the thread and say so.
YEs it explains the TRACKIGN NERF. Jsut because they also affect titans doe snto mean that they were nto intended to affect dreads mostly.
Hwy peopel ahve to create such nonsense logic that makes life so much ahrder to understand? |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard
Templis Dragonaors
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 05:30:00 -
[497] - Quote
When will tech 2 weapons be added to the Extra Large weapons class? |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
428
|
Posted - 2013.05.27 10:54:00 -
[498] - Quote
When they want the meta capital guns to become useless.
The tracking is the nerf I see being the worst. Though they do partially balance this with tracking nerf to Autos, so that lasers aren't as far behind in tracking.
-10km to optimal, in practical terms, means -5km to optimal because people will be using antimatter.
yet falloff increases by 10km... it seems ok to me.
If optimal is not quite enough, buy more meta 2 XL guns for 10% higher optimal (and 10% more damage, and 10% less cap use), make my concord LP in more demand.
However, I really like the suggestion that dreads should be able to move, jut not warp/jump, while sieged.
Falloff is better for moving engagements... if everyone is sitting still, tracking doesn't matter, dictating range is moot, and its simply sitting there, firing at optimal with perfect tracking at a structure or enemy seiged boat. |
Alec Freeman
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
240
|
Posted - 2013.05.28 06:31:00 -
[499] - Quote
I like this change Tbh. Would rather more buffs to bring other dreads in line and the phoenix is still broken. The moros still tracks extremely well (moros vs nag either can have better tracking depending on fit) and it still does the most dps at 30km.
All dreads bar phoenix can still blap Bs's with webs (the rev could do it before and its tracking is still slightly less than post need nag / moros albeit you will most likely no longer be able to blap unwebbed bs's at ~50km like you could before which was imbalanced.
Most of the folks in this thread are most likely either not dread pilots or folks who just trained the moros last year because it was the flavour of the month.
Im a nag pilot fyi and I flew them before they where "cool" so im still happy with what I have |
MisterAl tt1
Pretenders Inc
W-Space
109
|
Posted - 2013.05.29 13:32:00 -
[500] - Quote
Still a question, AFAIK you were going to nerf tracking enhancers too. Did you have that nerf in mind when thought of this nerf? |
Giullare
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
RAZOR Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:24:00 -
[501] - Quote
Fozzie showed during streaming the difference between programming and playing a game.
No way he'll read this forum.
CCP Dev don't even know how's EVE gameplay. |
Jon Chninkel
Les chevaliers de l'ordre
Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 11:30:00 -
[502] - Quote
RIP Moros.
Can't shoot anymore a large POS outside shields with AM... becomes an "attack dread" made for speed an short range DPS ?
Better reprocess it.
More seriously, stop and compare dreads, begin to ask yourself what this class of ships is made for.
|
SPYDER245
Black Wormholes of Apocrypha
TOGETHER WE STAND
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 14:27:00 -
[503] - Quote
I dont understand all these nerfs and fixes. Shouldn't the idea be that every class of ships should have the same efficiency against the lowers, equal and higher classes ? i.e. dreads should be as effective against battleships as battleships are against cruisers, cruisers against frigs and supercapitals against capitals.
I cannot stop feeling like the last couple years all the changes were directed to favor large alliances using fleets with big numbers of smaller ships. |
SourceFour
Aviation Professionals for EVE
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 16:23:00 -
[504] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:wallenbergaren wrote:Nerfing the Moros tracking is fine, it could be nerfed more TBH, but why gut the optimal? You can't even hit a large POS in optimal with close range ammo now. Kind of silly IMO. At 31km with antimatter and two range scripted TCs it loses 3% of its dps. Hardly crippling. Well longer term hopefully you guys will revisit the POS 'shield' mechanics. It seems pretty silly that, to shoot the shield, your shots have to magically pass through it to hit the tower beyond - fix that and you fix issues surrounding blasters/drones (of all sizes) right away...
^^ What he said. +1000000000 |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
747
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 16:54:00 -
[505] - Quote
You're getting confused between the tower's shield and its force field. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Tribal Band
532
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 19:28:00 -
[506] - Quote
I haven't used any dreadnoughts, but I feel a little bit opposed to a tracking nerf for the autocannons. I feel like it would be better to nerf their DPS instead. I see the Naglfar as more of the assault-other-capitals vehicle which should have lower DPS and higher tracking than any other dreadnought, good for slow-moving targets. The Moros should be fine no matter how far you nerf blaster tracking as long as it has top DPS. You don't need tracking to hit a station.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. |
Goldensaver
ArTech Expeditions
180
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 22:46:00 -
[507] - Quote
SPYDER245 wrote:I dont understand all these nerfs and fixes. Shouldn't the idea be that every class of ships should have the same efficiency against the lowers, equal and higher classes as the others ? i.e. dreads should be as effective against battleships as battleships are against cruisers, cruisers against frigs and supercapitals against capitals.
I cannot stop feeling like the last couple years all the changes were directed to favor large alliances using fleets with big numbers of smaller ships.
I dunno, I see the heirarchy between classes as less of BIG>Medium>small, but rather as each class has a larger ship that counters base class, but due to its size is more vulnerable to the next ship class. So more of a "Battleship>Battlecruiser>Cruiser>Destroyer>Frigate" sort of scenario. I find a Frigate or two can take down a cruiser just fine because the cruiser can't track them well, with exceptions that are more effective at some things than others, of course (SFI, RLM Caracal).
Perhaps if there were a stepping stone between Battleships and Capitals that was perhaps 800m sig radius and met mid way for speed and agility (so at a snails pace, but not continental drift), then it would make sense for Dreads to be a hard counter to that.
But to simply outclass an entire "tier" of ships? I don't think that's quite fair.
Jon Chninkel wrote:RIP Moros.
Can't shoot anymore a large POS outside shields with AM... becomes an "attack dread" made for speed an short range DPS ?
Better reprocess it.
More seriously, stop and compare dreads, begin to ask yourself what this class of ships is made for.
Perhaps if it's only supposed to be for bashing structures and stationary capitals, they should bring back the old tracking penalty when sieged, but make it even larger. Maybe an 80% tracking penalty, but a 60% range increase when sieged? Would that make you happy? You'd be able to shoot a POS through the bubble from in optimal with Antimatter, after all, there's no such thing as other types of ammo.
By the way, this picture was linked earilier in the thread by Deerin here. It shows the changes in Moros damage post patch. The lime green line is the Old Moros, the red line is the New Moros. At 35km you're dealing more damage than the old Moros with AM. Lets not even get into the discussion about how you can change to other types of ammo to still outdamage the other dreads, but at even larger ranges.
Also, since I doubt you always have all your Moros humping the bubble when POS smashing, and it can be assumed you're at around 35km from the POS, you're really not losing any DPS, and any range over that is where you begin to outdamage the old Moros. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
196
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 22:54:00 -
[508] - Quote
Jon Chninkel wrote:RIP Moros.
Can't shoot anymore a large POS outside shields with AM...
How fortunate for you then that there is a complete range of XL-sized hybrid charges to choose from, including such flavorful options as Iridium, Thorium, Tungsten and Lead!
In fact, there are even XL-sized railguns if you'd prefer to keep your Antimatter! It's not exactly like they're useful on any other dread. |
SPYDER245
Black Wormholes of Apocrypha
TOGETHER WE STAND
2
|
Posted - 2013.06.02 06:12:00 -
[509] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:Perhaps if there were a stepping stone between Battleships and Capitals that was perhaps 800m sig radius and met mid way for speed and agility (so at a snails pace, but not continental drift), then it would make sense for Dreads to be a hard counter to that.
Absolutely, but since there is no stepping stone ( except maybe for the orca, which is the right size but not a combat vessel ), dreads are rendered quite useless in combat by the huge number of nerfs applied periodically. Considering their price is 10x the price of a battleship, i think they should be able to make a stand against 3-4 of them quite easily - like battleships can do something against 3-4 cruisers ( well mods like agility/T2 variants should count ofcourse, but basically a 1v1 when both ships are at their basic speed/defense levels should have about the same outcome as an encounter between the next/previous 2 classes of ships ). Maybe make the siege mode efficient against structures/other capitals alone but leave the possibility to shoot smaller ships in normal mode. Supercaps are VERY effective against capitals, even without DD weapons, why shouldnt capitals be equaly effective against battleships ? |
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
6281
|
Posted - 2013.06.03 11:48:00 -
[510] - Quote
I have to say that I thought XL Artillery would get looked at during this patch.
So far, the Moros hits for around 60-70k per volley on a standard Archon setup. The Artillery Naglfar (Designed for alpha) is hitting around 50-60k every 14 seconds. This seems hugely wrong and needs to be looked at. Why no lookie CCP? The Arty Nag should be hitting a standard archon for at LEAST 110 - 140k. |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 [17] 18 .. 18 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |