Base stats without skills are:
From 30k Optimal 15k Falloff
to 20k Optimal 25k Falloff

That means -%33 optimal +%66 falloff

There will be a small area where old one has a slight dps advantage (not more than 5%). Other than that XL blasters will be reaching even further.

Where's the nerf?

But, as I said, it's difficult to reconcile these number with Fozzie's statement of -3% DPS at 31 km with two TCs, so I don't know what's going on.

You are bad, their optimal + falloff are both 45km, so they will do equal damage at 45km and the old blasters will do more damage at ranges shorter than that (not taking skill, mods and ammo into account obv.)

You are being worse by not applying skills mods ammo.

Here is the relevant graph with 2 tc's full skills nodmg mods

http://i.imgur.com/BtRcwjx.png

Green Pre Odyysey Moros
Red Post Odyysey Moros
Blue Post Odyysey Naglfar
Cyan Post Odyysey Revelation

At the highest gap the DPS difference between pre odyssey and post oddysey moros is %3.2.

Post odyssey moros completely and utterly dominates the dreads for all the ranges below 50k, where as current moros' reign ends at 40k.

I don't see a Nerf. It is still OP as hell.

Oh and I believe revelation could use a buff in dmg department. Absence of XL scorch equivalent puts pulses in a bad position. Even though rev can use more dmg mods, it sacrifices med slots (cap) for it which crucial for an amarr ship.

So i would like to know, will there actually be any further discussions or modifications to these proposed changes or are they set in stone? It seems from reading through this entire thread that most people are overall NOT happy with this proposal.

I'm going to firmly put myself in the camp of "Lets get the other 3 dreads up to the level of the Moros" and even though i don't fly them and never would, please do something about the Phoenix to make it a viable combat ship.

So i would like to know, will there actually be any further discussions or modifications to these proposed changes or are they set in stone? It seems from reading through this entire thread that most people are overall NOT happy with this proposal.

I'm going to firmly put myself in the camp of "Lets get the other 3 dreads up to the level of the Moros" and even though i don't fly them and never would, please do something about the Phoenix to make it a viable combat ship.

Though not being able to use anti matter without a bunch of mods on a large pos because of shields is kinda ********.

Given the current trend with changes, basically they have been posting the changes, say give us feedback and just ignore it and go ahead with the changes regardless.

For the life of me, I do wonder why they even ask in the first place.

Though I would like to be hopeful that they will fix the b@stard child and the capital missile systems with this update or just buff the phoenix to compensate for the weapon system.

It just looks like everything that is a bit better than the rest will be nerfed, and one day we will fly in basically same ships in different skins.

Why? Why should the shortest-range weapon expect to be able to use the shortest-range ammo against a large tower?

Surely this is a situation where the Rev and Phoenix should be superior to the Moros.

some of us spent many many many months of training time to max out Moros - thanks for the second nerf to this ship

Oh. Oh, gosh, I bet they didn't know that some people had spent time training Moros skills, or they never would have done this.

Clearly, your time investment entitles the Moros to be overpowered indefinitely.

Quite frankly CCP just needs to buff the other dreads to be on par with the moros. Doesnt have to be exact damage, but it shouldnt be thousands of dps less.

Considering the Rev and Phoenix are not superior in any form. Its rather petty to be at point blank range on a pos and not being able to use your short range ammo.
They could put make it where the antimatter range is right at point blank on a large pos. Technically we should be hitting shield and not tower.

The mass increase hasn't always been there, it was added three years ago. The reason it was added was because bumping dreads was way too easy, and since they have almost no tracking they need to be stationary to hit anything.

A Nerf to one is a buff to all the rest.


Why do you feel that the Moros is the healthy place for Dreads to be, rather than, say, the Revelation or the recently buffed Naglfar (the Phoenix, of course, being a troll ship, not a real one)?




Incidentally, even with the change, the Moros will be significantly out-Damaging the Rev at POS Bashing ranges.

With 3 Damage Mods, a Revelation does 8873 DPS with faction Multi.

With 3 Damage Mods, a Moros does 8020 DPS with Faction Lead. 9022 DPS with Faction Thorium. So long as Thorium Optimal can reach the tower, the Moros will be doing more damage than the Revelation.


Why is Antimatter so special that you must be allowed to use it for full damage on POSes for the Moros to be useful?

Just because you think it's a bad change doesn't automatically make it a bad change.
The same things were said about the HM nerf but in time most of the community came to recognize that these changes were necessary.

You actually think the HM nerf was good and not excessive?

Funny you say that but even people who complained about them being over powered say they are horrible now...

Here's an idea, instead of swinging the nerf bat everytime someone *****'s that their ship, A, isn't as op as the other ship, B, why don't you make ship A op as well. boom ship A and B are now balanced an ship B isn't bitching for being nerfed.