RIP moros

Never fails. I buy a ship, it gets nerfed. Anyone have a ship they want nerfed? Let me know.

Not a complaint by the way. I think these are good changes.

Never fails. I buy a ship, it gets nerfed. Anyone have a ship they want nerfed? Let me know.

Not a complaint by the way. I think these are good changes.

Anyone want a gallente dreadnought skillbook?

Hello once again everyone. We've got a small package of tweaks to capital weapons to announce, intended to help bring us a little bit closer to balance between the different dreadnoughts.

For the most part you all know the major balance problems with the class, the relative dominance of the Moros and the fact that the Phoenix has extreme difficulty applying damage to moving targets, even a moving carrier. These changes apply directly to the capital blasters, autocannons and pulse lasers, as well as to the siege modules themselves.

These changes are not expected to bring the class into perfect balance, but it should be a step in the right direction and be something we can build upon as we go forward.

X-L Blasters: -15% tracking, -10km optimal, +10km falloff

X-L Autocannons: -10% tracking

X-L Pulses: +6.666% optimal

Citadel missiles: Remove the explosion velocity penalty from siege modules

Let us know what you think!

I don't believe this change is significant enough. Dread blapping is still going to be a major issue.

-Liang

i hope this is a joke post

Why so much hate for Gallente, also is this applied to titan guns too?

It's to the guns themselves so yes it applies to titans.

I don't believe this change is significant enough. Dread blapping is still going to be a major issue.

-Liang

It's to the guns themselves so yes it applies to titans.

Fozzie: while we are on the subject of capital modules, please allow supercarriers and titans to fit capital tractor beams

i would dearly love to see how many of those die with their surreptitious looting modules on

RIP blappy Moros 2012-2013 u were a saint ;_;

It's still the best one tbh.

So whats gonna happen when is titans turn to balance? Bring them back where it was before the guns ?

You know nothing Jon Snow.


I guess Moros wont be able to hit towers anymore since they already have trouble using antimatter on large towers due to the VERY crappy range.

Fozzie whats up with your crusade of making gallente-anything crap and useless?

First the 7 Turrets online navy battleship and now a Moros with 3km optimal, way to go man....

Citadel missiles: Remove the explosion velocity penalty from siege modules

Let us know what you think!

Was there such an uptick in Naglfar use to warrant nerfing XL autocannons? I get it that the Moros needed nerfing because was so far ahead of the others and everyone just switched to it but the Nag?

Just seems like you're removing an incentive for people to use the Nag, which is already a very underused hull despite the recent changes.

If only you could use something that wasn't antimatter to increase your range eh? That would be pretty sweet

Cool, but what about light missile kiting and rifters?

IF the rest of ammunition wasnt **** dmg when you compare to the rest of the dreads who will be able to sue their highest dmg ammunition you know... or not sicne you seem to be Fozzies alt =p

It's still the best one tbh.

IF the rest of ammunition wasnt **** dmg when you compare to the rest of the dreads who will be able to sue their highest dmg ammunition you know... or not sicne you seem to be Fozzies alt =p

Nerfing the Moros tracking is fine, it could be nerfed more TBH, but why gut the optimal? You can't even hit a large POS in optimal with close range ammo now. Kind of silly IMO.

some of us spent many many many months of training time to max out Moros - thanks for the second nerf to this ship

At 31km with antimatter and two range scripted TCs it loses 3% of its dps.

Hello once again everyone. We've got a small package of tweaks to capital weapons to announce, intended to help bring us a little bit closer to balance between the different dreadnoughts.

X-L Blasters: -15% tracking, -10km optimal, +10km falloff
[
Citadel missiles: Remove the explosion velocity penalty from siege modules

Let us know what you think!

CCP Fozzie. You are by far the most inept, ham-handed Dev to swing the nerf bat. The word 'tweak' doesn't exist for you. It's all about breaking some mechanic so hard it ain't worth having.

I object to your halfwit addle brained excuses for wasting all the time we players spent maxing out Moros skills. I dare you to be so clumsy around the super capital crowd. Oh wait....that would be bad for your old alliance

CCP Fozzie. You are by far the most inept, ham-handed Dev to swing the nerf bat. The word 'tweak' doesn't exist for you. It's all about breaking some mechanic so hard it ain't worth having.

I object to your halfwit addle brained excuses for wasting all the time we players spent maxing out Moros skills. I dare you to be so clumsy around the super capital crowd. Oh wait....that would be bad for your old alliance

some of us spent many many many months of training time to max out Moros - thanks for the second nerf to this ship

Nerfing the Moros tracking is fine, it could be nerfed more TBH, but why gut the optimal? You can't even hit a large POS in optimal with close range ammo now. Kind of silly IMO.

[quote=wallenbergaren]Nerfing the Moros tracking is fine, it could be nerfed more TBH, but why gut the optimal? You can't even hit a large POS in optimal with close range ammo now. Kind of silly IMO.

Any chance of getting T2 XL Guns and ammo?

CCP Fozzie. You are by far the most inept, ham-handed Dev to swing the nerf bat. The word 'tweak' doesn't exist for you. It's all about breaking some mechanic so hard it ain't worth having.

I object to your halfwit addle brained excuses for wasting all the time we players spent maxing out Moros skills. I dare you to be so clumsy around the super capital crowd. Oh wait....that would be bad for your old alliance

-15% tracking I'm fine with, but -10km optimal for XL Blasters? Come on guys, be serious. -5km tops or GTFO.

Have you played around with the new Nag yet?

Citadel missiles: Remove the explosion velocity penalty from siege modules

Let us know what you think!

And can still be speedtanked while coasting in siege/triage.

c'mon Fozzie you know why the Phoenix is so terribad right now, just fix it.

A quick EFT tells me that Plutonium, Uranium and Thorium all out dps Multifrequency.

CCP Fozzie. You are by far the most inept, ham-handed Dev to swing the nerf bat. The word 'tweak' doesn't exist for you. It's all about breaking some mechanic so hard it ain't worth having.

I object to your halfwit addle brained excuses for wasting all the time we players spent maxing out Moros skills. I dare you to be so clumsy around the super capital crowd. Oh wait....that would be bad for your old alliance

Supers and titans are getting nerfed, just remains to be seen exactly how badly they get hit.

It's still the best one tbh.

Nerfing the Moros tracking is fine, it could be nerfed more TBH, but why gut the optimal? You can't even hit a large POS in optimal with close range ammo now. Kind of silly IMO.

Stop trying to fix things that are perfectly fine now..

Now you've just ruined lowsec fights, thanks m8.

RIP EVE

To all those going "wah wah wah you always nerf Gallente"

Nerf, nerf, nerf.

The only thing that is happening lately with ship "balancing" is nerfing the **** out of everything ppl. train for.

As a WH lvl 5 Gallente Dread pilot this hurts but I not upset as this nerf was a required for balance.

On string of captial balance do feel that supercapitals need great vulnerabilities to sub capitals to force alliance to support supercaptials with smaller ships or risk massive vulnerability.

At 31km with antimatter and two range scripted TCs it loses 3% of its dps. Hardly crippling.

As much as people don't want to hear it: nerfs reduce power creep in Eve, so by all means nerf away. I'd rather have a ship doing less (damage, speed, tracking, etc.) than to have an OP-of-the-month arms race because everyone wants their ships buffed until all ships are so comical in their stats that it's not even worth playing the game anymore.

Capital Hybrid Turret V is a long skill train dude - And now you are proposing to take away most of my time investment for that skill level?

Edit - since you are taking away most the the bonus for training it to level V, can I has my investment SP back?

Oh stop being a sniveling weasel. Training Cap Hybrid Turret is +5% damage per level, which this change doesn't effect. You still get 5% more damage. The base damage of the turrets themselves hasn't changed.

Try investing in some tracking implants and boosters instead of this very unbecoming public display of indignation.

That's right folks, spend 200mil on implants and hardwires (even if you have something in the slot), and don't forget to take boosters which still haven't been fixed.

Just don't get podded.

That's right folks, spend 200mil on implants and hardwires (even if you have something in the slot), and don't forget to take boosters which still haven't been fixed.

Just don't get podded.

That's right folks, spend 200mil on implants and hardwires (even if you have something in the slot), and don't forget to take boosters which still haven't been fixed.

Just don't get podded.

lol, not being able to own everything as reliably with dropping dreads ruins low sec pvp? Terrible.

Also: Wormholer complaining about the price of something el oh el.

Hello once again everyone. We've got a small package of tweaks to capital weapons to announce, intended to help bring us a little bit closer to balance between the different dreadnoughts.

For the most part you all know the major balance problems with the class, the relative dominance of the Moros and the fact that the Phoenix has extreme difficulty applying damage to moving targets, even a moving carrier. These changes apply directly to the capital blasters, autocannons and pulse lasers, as well as to the siege modules themselves.

These changes are not expected to bring the class into perfect balance, but it should be a step in the right direction and be something we can build upon as we go forward.

X-L Blasters: -15% tracking, -10km optimal, +10km falloff

X-L Autocannons: -10% tracking

X-L Pulses: +6.666% optimal

Citadel missiles: Remove the explosion velocity penalty from siege modules

Let us know what you think!

Oh and maybe fix that shooting a pos shield doesnt require you to lock/shot the pos itself under it .That +20km realy hurts some weapon systems.

Oh great, i just finished Siege 5 for a moros.

Now crosstraining into amarr

CCP hates Gallente, Caldari, Amarr and Minmatar according to the players.

Wormhole PvE will now be done with a Carrier and the Dread will sit in stations and collect dust, like they did for years.

In case anyone is wondering why they are 'balancing' XL weapons.

They're there. Use them.

Also: Wormholer complaining about the price of something el oh el.

Considering cap escalations will be MUCH more difficult now, the isk will be less.

Bear in mind that this will also affect everyone's T3s. Your prices will rise as supply dwindles.


Also, we tend to get podded quite a bit (it's the most effective way to remove someone from the fight given it's often in their hole)

While I'm guessing thats somewhat in jest - theres a fair point in there - Eve has always been about playing the long game and far too many changes recently have made a big difference to things people will have spent time working and planning towards. Eventually people may become reluctant to invest too much in working towards a long term goal in Eve (and possibly lose interest in the game) wary of arbitary changes making all their efforts a waste of time before or shortly after getting there. To a certain extent its unavoidable but its something that seems to have been forgotten a little too much of late.

These changes are a good start. I think all dreads (except for lolPhoenix) will still be blapping, but I am happy to see how much this impacts things before further changes are made...

if you are gonna nerf the moros then nerf the moros, don't make a useless ship. I haven't done the math but seriously...everyone has a moros because it's the best dread...now everyone is gonna have to get rid of them with no buyers?...great

While I'm guessing thats somewhat in jest - theres a fair point in there - Eve has always been about playing the long game and far too many changes recently have made a big difference to things people will have spent time working and planning towards. Eventually people may become reluctant to invest too much in working towards a long term goal in Eve (and possibly lose interest in the game) wary of arbitary changes making all their efforts a waste of time before or shortly after getting there. To a certain extent its unavoidable but its something that seems to have been forgotten a little too much of late.

This is actually a pretty salient point, considering that it's not possible to "respec" or grind up the necessary new skills given constant change. However, as is the case with any flavor-of-the-month system, you should always train for what playstyle you enjoy, and then you can enjoy it while you're playing instead of always wishing you had trained for X because it was the FOTM. I will echo some similar complaints, however, that the game is feeling very homogeneous lately, and I think the risk there is that many ships will turn out being very vanilla with a mix of middlesome stats while not truly excelling at anything.

Anyone want a gallente dreadnought skillbook?

It's still the best one tbh.

X-L Pulses: +6.666% optimal

CCP Fozzie. You are by far the most inept, ham-handed Dev to swing the nerf bat. The word 'tweak' doesn't exist for you. It's all about breaking some mechanic so hard it ain't worth having.

I object to your halfwit addle brained excuses for wasting all the time we players spent maxing out Moros skills. I dare you to be so clumsy around the super capital crowd. Oh wait....that would be bad for your old alliance

BLASTER WILL END UP WITH LESS OPTIMAL AND LESS FALLOFF OF AUTOCANNON
so u need to nerf also small, medium and large blaster to bring them in line.
Hybrid was great years ago, after become **** ( medium rail are still ****), after boost the come back in use and now let's nerf again f-uck you

Why is the optimal range of the Blasters less than the optimal range of the Autocannons? How exactly does that make sense?

Why is the optimal range of the Blasters less than the optimal range of the Autocannons? How exactly does that make sense?

What I heard here is that we want to nerf the optimal on autocannons... +1!

-Liang

I'm going to counter this argument of homogeneity: it feels to me that the Caracal, Moa, Omen, and Arbitrator are all very different ships. The variety is still there, and the question is whether Eve would be better off with only four cruisers instead of all the ones we actually have. I'd say we're better off with the ships that are middlesome without excelling than not having them at all.

-Liang

It's still the best one tbh.

Cool story, it was bad for years... remember when it couldn't reach reveleation dps even with drones (that u could lose?)

Naglfar = capless turret , damage selection
Revelation = no ammo waste (more space for fuel), good layout for armor tanking
Phoenix = good pos bash, worst by far for everything else (patch doesn't change this)
Moros = dps king, **** on his feet, use cap, use ammo

Now, if u nerf blaster moros will **** on his knees.
In addition u are nerfing also tracking enhancers....... why u try to broke something u fixed?

Less optimal, more falloff on hybrids. Autocannons are only losing some tracking, no falloff.

XL Blasters were out of line anyways.

Neutron Blaster Cannon II with faction AM: 4.500 + 12.500
Ion Siege Blaster Cannon with faction AM: 18.750 + 18.750
New Ion Siege Blaster Cannon with faction AM: 8.750 + 28.750 (approx)

They were out of line in the first place. This change will make them actual blasters again, instead of pulse lasers with autocannon falloff.

WTF! U ****** up suppers. so ppl who get suppers dont have much to do with them beside structure shooting. Isnt so that ppl who get suppers stop playing or just let them rot?
Now u try to make some dreads useless. OMG this game is only for newbs. And im gonna f... off from this game soon.

More space for fuel? You know Dreads have a fuel bay, right?

You know they also need stront right? A rev goes farther/fights longer without needing a resupply

I don't believe this change is significant enough. Dread blapping is still going to be a major issue.

-Liang

Good sir if u check TQ now u will see that adding 10km falloff to x-l blaster u will have less falloff than autocannon x-l, just saying
15km + 10km = 25 km for blaster (+ skills)
28,8km for autocannons (+skills)

These changes are a good start. I think all dreads (except for lolPhoenix) will still be blapping, but I am happy to see how much this impacts things before further changes are made...

Hello once again everyone. We've got a small package of tweaks to capital weapons to announce, intended to help bring us a little bit closer to balance between the different dreadnoughts.

For the most part you all know the major balance problems with the class, the relative dominance of the Moros and the fact that the Phoenix has extreme difficulty applying damage to moving targets, even a moving carrier. These changes apply directly to the capital blasters, autocannons and pulse lasers, as well as to the siege modules themselves.

These changes are not expected to bring the class into perfect balance, but it should be a step in the right direction and be something we can build upon as we go forward.

X-L Blasters: -15% tracking, -10km optimal, +10km falloff

X-L Autocannons: -10% tracking

X-L Pulses: +6.666% optimal

Citadel missiles: Remove the explosion velocity penalty from siege modules

Let us know what you think!

Even with these changes my Phoenix is still the worse of the 4 dreads.

There is something else you can give it to bring it more in line with the others?

Something, I accept anything:

more damage
more hp
better missile travel time

or

even maybe something to fix an annoying thing: allow the guns to fit 5 more missiles so we have ammo at least for a full siege cycle.

please

The problem is that you do not understand missile damage math.

Let us know what you think!

I dont think these changes will achieve what you are hoping to. I cant speak for anything but wormhole space except these will not solve dread blapping. As is anything im shooting with my moros is moving 5m/s and heavily target painted, so -15% tracking will not stop be from blapping it.

I think you should look into stacking of webs instead.

So I'm just going to say this

The term "balance" seems to be more "make everything the same" at least that's what these changes seem to be.

That's right folks, spend 200mil on implants and hardwires (even if you have something in the slot), and don't forget to take boosters which still haven't been fixed.

Just don't get podded.

It's still the best one tbh.

Hello once again everyone. We've got a small package of tweaks to capital weapons to announce, intended to help bring us a little bit closer to balance between the different dreadnoughts.

For the most part you all know the major balance problems with the class, the relative dominance of the Moros and the fact that the Phoenix has extreme difficulty applying damage to moving targets, even a moving carrier. These changes apply directly to the capital blasters, autocannons and pulse lasers, as well as to the siege modules themselves.

These changes are not expected to bring the class into perfect balance, but it should be a step in the right direction and be something we can build upon as we go forward.

X-L Blasters: -15% tracking, -10km optimal, +10km falloff

X-L Autocannons: -10% tracking

X-L Pulses: +6.666% optimal

Citadel missiles: Remove the explosion velocity penalty from siege modules

Let us know what you think!

Tracking nerf, sure, is not excessive and it balances things a bit. But the optimal nerf on the blasters is rather harsh, they basically won't be able to hit **** with antimatter.

I dont think they need to be "brought in line" more. Moros deals best dmg, rev has best tank and doesnt use ammo, naglfar has best dmg projection and doesnt use cap for its guns. Phoenix can change its dmg type easily and is the best anti-cap dread.

they each have a use and purpose.

So wake up call to all whiners.

Base tracking of the limited mega ion siege blaster 1, Im using the meta because im a WHer and Im pro, is 0.0054125. Fifteen percent of this is 0.000811875. Now for those that fail at math, and if CCP doesnt fail at math, then the new number WILL be 0.004600625. Again this number is assuming CCP do something funny and completely fail at math.

The current tracking of the Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser 1 is 0.0040512. This means that the moros will still have noticeably better tracking than the rev. Anyone who has ever tried to do dread blapping with the rev knows that it is not bad. Rev blapping is pretty easy.

The optimal range nerf is not that bad either. The moros gets 5 mid slots. So for a tracking dread, you would use 2 sebos, and 3 TCUs. Two tracking one optimal range. Thats 14KM of optimal and 34 KM of falloff. With 2 webbing ships on field webbing down what you are shooting, its going to die. No questions asked, its going to die.

The moros gets 5 mid slots. So for a tracking dread, you would use 2 sebos, and 3 TCUs.

There is a reason you see a whole lot of Moros's in w-space these days, and this change should help fix the reason for that. I have no problem with the Moros doing the most damage, but it should have severe range problems while doing so.

I don't actually remember any other dev who was as hated for his "changes" as this one.
And yeah, the "everything is to be the same" approach to balance is disturbing.

A dread touching a POS shield should be able to get 100% damage against it without special configuration.

A dread touching a POS shield should be able to get 100% damage against it without special configuration.

CCP Fozzie. You are by far the most inept, ham-handed Dev to swing the nerf bat. The word 'tweak' doesn't exist for you. It's all about breaking some mechanic so hard it ain't worth having.

I object to your halfwit addle brained excuses for wasting all the time we players spent maxing out Moros skills. I dare you to be so clumsy around the super capital crowd. Oh wait....that would be bad for your old alliance

I don't think he's trying to stop dread blapping, I think he's trying to improve balance between dreads.

if you are gonna nerf the moros then nerf the moros, don't make a useless ship. I haven't done the math but seriously...everyone has a moros because it's the best dread...now everyone is gonna have to get rid of them with no buyers?...great

if you are gonna nerf the moros then nerf the moros, don't make a useless ship. I haven't done the math but seriously...everyone has a moros because it's the best dread...now everyone is gonna have to get rid of them with no buyers?...great

About time my beloved Phoenix gets some actual love.

I think so to but not sure this is the best way to go about it - I'd rather see some adjustments to the whole dreadnaught package guns, ammo, ship hulls, etc. with player feedback taken into account and more testing before it comes to TQ than doing it piecemeal chucking in some changes to one aspect.

:(

I can understand nerfing the moros tracking but optimal also?

It's still the best one tbh.

Ouch!

Nobody will be training for the minnie dread now. The whole point was that it would be excellent tracking but now why even bother. Will remain unused with such a heavy handed nerf.

The moros nerf is especially hard. I'd suggest an optimal nerf of -5 to -7km, while mantaining the falloff bonus, and not touching the tracking.

Dreads and especially titans don't track for **** without tp's or webs unless shooting at bc's or drakes so I simply don't understand this nerf. These are not being over-used or abused and seem like they're fufilling a good niche to counter sub-caps. This simply takes another tool out of the hand to counter massive bs or bc blobs with such a heavy-handed nerf.

If this is what you think doesn't it deserve to be nerfed even more? Look anywhere and when dreads are concerned it's almost all gallente dreads.

:(

I can understand nerfing the moros tracking but optimal also?

was the Nags tracking actually too high? It has to shield tank really so it doesnt have tracking computers with tracking scripts in the mids like the armor dreads can, this will mean a fit nag will have less tracking than a Rev is that intended?

Regarding pheonix I think a massive improvement would be to change the 5% kinetic damage per level to 5% missile damage per level so it can take advantage of the multiple damage types of missiles. Also reduce the volume of capital missiles a bit so a variety can be kept in cargo.

Doing 100% kinetic damage is a massive massive weakness of a pheonix its too easy to tank 1 damage type

Fozzie, I think that you should read this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=228586&find=unread

This is something really interesting that you could have a good use for it.

It is realted to caldari and galente.

why all the whines and boos, and all the hard nerfing forth and back ?
why not just remove the dreads and supers and titans, and reimburse all players. get back to the ground table. do all other balancing first and then come back with new ideas for dreads, titans and supers and fresh datas....


honestly, i really think ,ccp you should reset all players sp to zero and let the users allocate the sp to whatever they wanted. you have changed the game so much recently and even more with the next release, that eve is and becomes a totally different game then it was last year..

...He said while smiling uncontrollably.

Hello once again everyone. We've got a small package of tweaks to capital weapons to announce, intended

X-L Blasters: -15% tracking, -10km optimal, +10km falloff

Let us know what you think!

Is it joke? For real CCP!

You make Neglf most DPS dread. MOST! He making tonn of damage with new bonus. And you nerf moros MORE? Just delete all other dreads from game it change nothing. People will take naglf.

You know that "new" moros cant even do normal dps to Large control tower? For now moros have 20+20 with AM X-L charges.
And will have 10+30. Its just half of hes total dps - ~5-6k in siege. And lets take a look at naglf:
20+39... Autocan have MORE optimal than blaster. What the hell is that? So make that doctrine to all autocan! Let's delete blasters (hardest weapon in game to deal "tonns of damage") from the game...

What the **** are you blabbering about? Nag still has 15% less DPS than Moros.

So galente are still best at something...caps and supers, cause quite honestly everything else still sucks, apart from a few select ships. Medium blasters and rails are still worthless compared to any other platform. Small are fine, but they are smalls, who really cares. Larges are really only a viable platform on a non-gal ship, which makes me rather sad.

While the moros nerf, now that I looked more closely at the math still leaves it as the best dread, the gap from moros to say rev is now much narrower than the gap between amarr bs and galente bs, which honestly no one really flies seriously. Now this might change with the upcoming domi which seems to be op, but I doubt much will change with the rest. Time will tell what works and what doesn't.

Next thing you are gonna nerf the nyx right? cause clearly it's op as well and people should fly Hels.

Nobody except all of PL. Work on your propaganda.

The tracking IS the major problem on the Moros. The optimal and falloff were high for a "close range" weapon, but -5/+5 would have probably sufficed.

Imagine this: Titans and Dreads, being capitals, are supported by a smaller, more agile fleet. Not a fleet of capitals, mind you. Perhaps a fleet of sub-capitals. Ships that support the big one in doing its job. Not everyone drops 50 Supers on frig, or thinks "Hey we have a fleet of subcaps to kill here....get the Titans spooled up."

#PLProblems

What the **** are you blabbering about? Nag still has 15% less DPS than Moros.