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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
636
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 17:37:00 -
[241] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:The CSM has been going from success to success, but ever since Goonswarm began killing miners in hisec, a gaggle of politically naive rabble have been making thread after thread about me.
Lies! We all know they are your alts 
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |

Vaffel Junior
NorCorp Security
65
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 17:38:00 -
[242] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:The CSM has been going from success to success, but ever since Goonswarm began killing miners in hisec, a gaggle of politically naive rabble have been making thread after thread about me.
While I can't keep track day-to-day if it's a "CSM is powerless and a joke" day or a "Mittani has too much power, oh god" day, either way I assure you that I enjoy your hypocritical rage.
Well said there sir... chairman of CSM Yeah.... maby CCP need a new way to comunicate with playerbase
|

Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
1071
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 17:46:00 -
[243] - Quote
what most ignorant highsec pubbies do not realize is part of the function of the csm these days is to filter out the feedback from utter idiots before the feedback reaches CCP
so these threads filled with the dumbest posts possible only solidify the need for the csm in its current iteration :sun: |

Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
1071
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 17:47:00 -
[244] - Quote
a quick browse of the features and ideas forum also makes this point pretty strongly |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
102
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 17:51:00 -
[245] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote: CSM 6's 0.0 'monotheism' came about mostly as a response to the reverse situation in CSM 5, except that 0.0 responded by getting out the vote, not screeching to Hilmar that the voting process was unfair and that we needed some form of positive discrimination to give seats to less popular candidates.
Well as you've probably noticed I'm not exactly that empathic about people whining about CSM and not voting - I do despise the section of the community that can't be bothered to vote and then says CSM doesn't represent them. But. There is a problem in that Nullsec alliances are simply better organized at conjuring bloc votes to get their candidates in and while you can leave it to tooth and claw and say "screw highsec if they can't get decent candidates and vote" I guess the reality of it is that highsec players tend to be more casual and less inclined to full engagement with the community.
I think that there's a better chance of highsec getting themselves better organised this time around now that everyone has seen that the CSM can have a substantial impact on how CCP operates, and in the light of the refocusing on Eve that's now taking place there's likely to be more on the table for the CSM to actually fight over.
0.0 players are inherently better able to get out the vote because of the nature of 0.0 existance, but then there's more highseccers out there to grab votes from. There's an analogy about small groups of well organised players versus "disorganised blobbing noobs" in there somewhere.
Quote:Quote: don't think this can work, simply because CSMs are human players rather than spaceship characters. If I have a highsec alt and a 0.0 alt and I run for CSM, which 'constituency' am I? Mittani currently spends most of his playing time killing ice miners in Gallente space, does that make him a highsec candidate? What if a 'highsec' character runs for CSM and his corp then joins a nullsec alliance? What if a nullsec candidate has their space invaded and they get evicted and flee to lowsec or wormspace? I guess you'd choose which kind of seat you wanted to contest at the time you entered the race - alongside registering your rl name and address and details etc you choose which kind of seat you were going for. Mittani would be free to run for a highsec seat but maybe only highsec players get to vote in that constituancy ? (who knows, I really don't have any specific proposal here) But something probably does need to be done to ensure more variety in future CSMs - I think none of us really benefit from the monotheistic ones for a couple of reasons -> 1. they do miss important issues (as this one managed to miss NeX) and 2. it does become easier for CCP to ignore a particular CSM when they are armed by the whines of the community saying its unrepresentative of most players. Really, as long as NeX stays vanity only then its a non-issue. You can say its the thin end of the wedge if you like, but even the hint of going to pay-to-win over the summer was enough to get the jita riots rolling, thousands of accounts unsubscribing and Eve dragged through the mud on pretty much every gaming news website out there. I doubt our new-and-improved spaceship-focused CCP has any desire to go through all that again.
As for CCP ignoring unrepresentative CSMs, CCP had no problem ignoring issues raised by previous CSM lineups that were much more 'equally' divided - see the hilariously long issue backlog for details. As I said earlier, this is a point about social interaction rather than the CSM - the way that you get things done with CCP is by being able to convincingly articulate your points to them as one human being to another, not by waving a equal opportunities badge around.
And really, I have my doubts about how much good a "representative" CSM could agree on to get done seeing as there's every chance that you'd end up with 2 'nerf supercaps' guys, 2 'don't nerf supercaps, nerf blobs' guys, 3 highseccers who just want level 4 missions and veldspar mining to be buffed, and 2 guys running on a platform of 'oppose everything that goons suggest because they're mean and want to destroy eve'. Seems to me that CCP would find it much easier to ignore a divided CSM and just do whatever the hell they thought of than it would be with something like CSM6 which has shown a largely united front. |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
102
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 17:52:00 -
[246] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote: CSM 6's 0.0 'monotheism' came about mostly as a response to the reverse situation in CSM 5, except that 0.0 responded by getting out the vote, not screeching to Hilmar that the voting process was unfair and that we needed some form of positive discrimination to give seats to less popular candidates.
Well as you've probably noticed I'm not exactly that empathic about people whining about CSM and not voting - I do despise the section of the community that can't be bothered to vote and then says CSM doesn't represent them. But. There is a problem in that Nullsec alliances are simply better organized at conjuring bloc votes to get their candidates in and while you can leave it to tooth and claw and say "screw highsec if they can't get decent candidates and vote" I guess the reality of it is that highsec players tend to be more casual and less inclined to full engagement with the community.
I think that there's a better chance of highsec getting themselves better organised this time around now that everyone has seen that the CSM can have a substantial impact on how CCP operates, and in the light of the refocusing on Eve that's now taking place there's likely to be more on the table for the CSM to actually fight over.
0.0 players are inherently better able to get out the vote because of the nature of 0.0 existance, but then there's more highseccers out there to grab votes from. There's an analogy about small groups of well organised players versus "disorganised blobbing noobs" in there somewhere.
Quote:Quote: don't think this can work, simply because CSMs are human players rather than spaceship characters. If I have a highsec alt and a 0.0 alt and I run for CSM, which 'constituency' am I? Mittani currently spends most of his playing time killing ice miners in Gallente space, does that make him a highsec candidate? What if a 'highsec' character runs for CSM and his corp then joins a nullsec alliance? What if a nullsec candidate has their space invaded and they get evicted and flee to lowsec or wormspace? I guess you'd choose which kind of seat you wanted to contest at the time you entered the race - alongside registering your rl name and address and details etc you choose which kind of seat you were going for. Mittani would be free to run for a highsec seat but maybe only highsec players get to vote in that constituancy ? (who knows, I really don't have any specific proposal here) But something probably does need to be done to ensure more variety in future CSMs - I think none of us really benefit from the monotheistic ones for a couple of reasons -> 1. they do miss important issues (as this one managed to miss NeX) and 2. it does become easier for CCP to ignore a particular CSM when they are armed by the whines of the community saying its unrepresentative of most players. Really, as long as NeX stays vanity only then its a non-issue. You can say its the thin end of the wedge if you like, but even the hint of going to pay-to-win over the summer was enough to get the jita riots rolling, thousands of accounts unsubscribing and Eve dragged through the mud on pretty much every gaming news website out there. I doubt our new-and-improved spaceship-focused CCP has any desire to go through all that again.
As for CCP ignoring unrepresentative CSMs, CCP had no problem ignoring issues raised by previous CSM lineups that were much more 'equally' divided - see the hilariously long issue backlog for details. As I said earlier, this is a point about social interaction rather than the CSM - the way that you get things done with CCP is by being able to convincingly articulate your points to them as one human being to another, not by waving a equal opportunities badge around.
And really, I have my doubts about how much good a "representative" CSM could agree on to get done seeing as there's every chance that you'd end up with 2 'nerf supercaps' guys, 2 'don't nerf supercaps, nerf blobs' guys, 3 highseccers who just want level 4 missions and veldspar mining to be more lucrative, and 2 guys running on a platform of 'oppose everything that goons suggest because they're mean and want to destroy eve'. Seems to me that CCP would find it much easier to ignore a divided CSM and just do whatever the hell they thought of than it would be with something like CSM6 which has shown a largely united front. |

The Mittani
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1379
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 18:10:00 -
[247] - Quote
Also, politically naive babbys don't understand that Trebor has one of the strongest voices on the CSM and we pretty much just defer to him when it comes to hisec issues.
CSM7 is likely to see both Trebor and Kelduum from Eve-Uni representing hisec, as well as only having one Goonswarm rep (Vile Rat is only running for one term).
What I wonder is: will the random tea-partiers of this forum still declare that I possess orbital mind-control lasers in the next CSM? |

SMT008
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
129
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 18:13:00 -
[248] - Quote
The Mittani wrote: What I wonder is: will the random tea-partiers of this forum still declare that I possess orbital mind-control lasers in the next CSM?
Oh wait, you didn't ? |

Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 18:55:00 -
[249] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:but this thread was sparked by Hillmar's comment that a lot of people are worried about the nullsec vote bloc dominated CSM.
A lot of people are worried the world is going to end in 2012, doesn't mean they're not all morons.
Forcing some kind of playstyle equality in CSM elections is only really being pushed by people who know they won't get elected any other way. The fact of the matter is most of the people who are engaged enough with the game to make a good CSM have at least some stake in 0.0. Not to mention where do you draw the lines when you're dividing constituencies? Sure the large alliance player deserves a representative but the guy who just logs in to fulfil his breast engorgement fantasies in the character editor probably doesn't.
What it comes down to is the CSM doesn't represent you, and it doesn't represent me. It represents the players of Eve and should be trying to do what is best for everyone collectively, not everyone individually. Sometimes things you don't like have to happen for the greater good. If you can't get your head around that then congratulations, you have the mental age of a spoiled, petulant child. |

Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
135
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 19:56:00 -
[250] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:
What I wonder is: will the random tea-partiers of this forum still declare that I possess orbital mind-control lasers in the next CSM?
If this is you trying to tell me you don't then I'm going to be more than a little pissed...
|

Vile rat
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
494
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 20:21:00 -
[251] - Quote
Vastek Non wrote:Vile rat wrote:Vastek Non wrote:I find Vile Rats sudden interest in High Sec life a bit surprising, however am trying to be optimistic rather than my initial cynicism.
Honestly my interest in highsec is because I've had several people point out (correctly) that we haven't done a good enough job bringing attention to this gameplay style and I agree. I'm going to make an effort and do what I can. Also I'm a one term candidate and have posted publicly, before I even got elected, that I was only going to run for one term. I don't have to care about 'pandering' accusations at all thankfully. Ok, good to hear (the bit about paying attention to more than just your powerblock). Honestly i'm mostly a HS player, but in reality we all know that massive sections of the game need looking at, mostly null to be honest. I have no problem with that and if you want to run for a second term and are looking out for the game, good luck to you.
Words are put in our mouth by those who want to paint us as devils. We don't really care so we come across as callous.
I have zero interest in reelection and I'm putting all my effort into this year. I want to see high sec worked on in a way that improves the game play of those who choose to play the game that way. I did not get elected on high sec issues, but I'm arrogant, I'm a complete ******* when I need to be, and I'm passionate about the game and I want to help if I can.
That's why we were sent here and that's why we've been so successful. Contact us with your issues and help us fix this damn game. That's what we're here for.
Also don't get too worked up if you see me talking **** to people posting stone throwing threads. I'm under no obligation to take them seriously and it's more fun to give them what they give me. If you have a serious issue, no matter your gameplay style, please contact me. Yes I play in nullsec, but I recognize the connection and value between all parts of this game and I represent myself accordingly. Let's get this **** fixed gentlemen. |

Cidwm
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 10:14:00 -
[252] - Quote
The main problem with the current CSM is that its way too bisaed to one style of play. anyone that challenges that style basically gets the opinion that the delightful Rhaegor stormborn gave us amongst many others :- "0.0 makes Eve. All you empire chumps are worthless."... riiiight.... So were does a good proportion of industry and commerce take place?
Also, take a look at the current CSM especially its loudest members... 4-5 of them come from the same power bloc alone! Surely this is open to abuse as a result in some way or another?
I know what some of you are saying when you say that high seccers should have voted more/better... but have you ever tried to organise them? high sec life is very very different from 0.0 mainly because in high sec there alot more fractured. Ive operated in systems with over 50+ people from as many corps with little to no communication going on with them. They don't belong to a massive alliance or coalition were loyalty more than sense wavers votes for specific people within there own power bloc because that serves there best interest rather than somone who could think in the best interest of EVE as a whole.
I'm interested to see what CCP want to do in regards to the CSM. As long as the EVE player base doesnt lose its ability to communicate with CCP and get there point across without moaning too much then it could well be a good thing indeed! |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
76

|
Posted - 2011.10.22 11:48:00 -
[253] - Quote
Thread has been cleaned of off topic and spam replies. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
81
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 13:19:00 -
[254] - Quote
Don't people think that changing the rules after one example is ridiculous reactionism?
So we finally see that the CSM can be a useful political tool, and instead of running some proper campaigns next time based on this new awareness, we want to neuter it back into obscurity? Is this really the best way to get the hisec voice heard?
If you guarantee hisec seats, then those hisec seats will be filled by people who sailed into the position because they had no real need to run a proper campaign and really get a majority of hisec players mobilized, heard, and represented. You're not talking about protecting a minority here, you're talking about reserving space for a huge majority who can't even be bothered to articulate their wants, and we suddenly think that forcing three seats will mean their voice gets heard?
You change things in this world through effort; just changing rules never guarantees the outcome you want. It's childish thinking. If the world worked that way we would just order everyone to be nice to each other, obviously this doesn't work that way.
Before we go neutering the csm back into obscurity, let's see if we can't get some proper hisec candidates to step up and run a campaign that actually does inspire their base and capture their sentiments. It's ultimately their race to lose, as they could fill every spot if they actually cared.
I'm honestly considering running on a hisec platform just to frame the issue and get people competing with me for hisec votes on an effective level. |

SMT008
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
138
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 14:29:00 -
[255] - Quote
The main problem with the highsec part of the CSM problem is that highsec peoples don't vote because they don't know about the CSM. They barely know what it is or what it did, they don't give a flying fsck about how it works and why they should vote.
CCP can fix that problem by allowing every candidate to send one, or two, evemails. To every single EVE account.
I know, it might be a little too much for the system to handle but I'm sure it can be done. And I'm pretty sure if you tell a highsec guy "Hey, if there are issues or things you would like to introduce in EVE, well, check the candidates, maybe one of them wants those issues fixed, vote for him ;)", he will take a second to read and vote. You just need to actually tell him in a way that no one can "avoid". The little box when you login, well, once you close it, it doesn't come up again until it's changed by CCP. Or you can just type your pass press enter and poof.
You can ignore it.
You can't ignore an EVEmail, especially if you're a highsec dweller who never receive EVEmails usually. |

Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
83
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 14:58:00 -
[256] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:The main problem with the highsec part of the CSM problem is that highsec peoples don't vote because they don't know about the CSM.
Absolutely. Let's talk about how to get hisec people voting and organized before we throw in the towel and force them to have 3 seats filled by people no one voted for.
|

Kengutsi Akira
78
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 15:23:00 -
[257] - Quote
best thing is, The in-chair Goons now are supported (indeed forced as Ive heard regardless of them pretending not) by the three biggest corps in the game at least. The biggest alliance in 0.0 at least. DCF what 72% of null sec?
Anyone in position now will never be voted out of position cause there arent enough votes what with alts and bots etc. Any DCF candidates elected afterwards just makes it worse till the CSM only represents one group in the game.
I agree remove it
Though the tears upon seeing a full Goon CSM would be magical What Mittani wants, Mittani gets, Mittani help us all
|

Mirima Thurander
Deventer Exploration An Acquisition
27
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 16:08:00 -
[258] - Quote
man i know why the CSM stays a null play thing now... ever time you speak of it in the most read forum section you thread gets locked or moved to this dismal place to be forgotten
I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. |

Kengutsi Akira
78
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 16:17:00 -
[259] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:man i know why the CSM stays a null play thing now... ever time you speak of it in the most read forum section you thread gets locked or moved to this dismal place to be forgotten
pretty much.... cause enough Goons report it (they arent the police of the game they say against allegations of them botting unless its against other CSM apparent;y or on the forums) it gets taken out What Mittani wants, Mittani gets, Mittani help us all
|

Reislier
13
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 17:16:00 -
[260] - Quote
A few players log into the forums. Every single player logs into the the charachter select screen.
Pop up a poll for voting if you must..
Or just solicit input from players right there.. It's a high tech game.. automate the function of the CSM. Build it right into the news feed that is already there. |

Dalketh
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 17:35:00 -
[261] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:I was pretty disappointed for the CSM allowing NeX for "vanity" items to slip in the game at all.
How would you have them "disallow" the NeX store from going ahead, exactly? Attack the NeX development team with Molotov cocktails while they were at the spring summit? Or do you just mean that the CSM should have made some feeble token gesture of protest, that CCP would have completely ignored and gone ahead anyway?
That is what they say they did.... 
|

Dalketh
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 18:03:00 -
[262] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Signal11th wrote: Humm half agree half not, People have been complaining about Goons for years, some of it deserved some of it not, I think there's a section of the populace that are just bored with them (not me btw I find them quite quaint)
yes but we didn't manage the deluge of goons :argh: post until we butchered over a thousand miners like swine
Actually I have seen these posts about the goon/null sec heavy CSM since the election.
You may be right, the increase may be fueled a bit by the goons war on ice miners or whatever you call it, as naturally that can **** some people off. However I think the 'deluge' here is because the CEO of CCP expressed his own concern about the CSM bias publicly, and people are feeling hopeful about that. Also with possible changes coming to prevent future CSM's from being too biased in ANY direction.
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Helena Russell Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 18:15:00 -
[263] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:The CSM has been going from success to success, but ever since Goonswarm began killing miners in hisec, a gaggle of politically naive rabble have been making thread after thread about me.
While I can't keep track day-to-day if it's a "CSM is powerless and a joke" day or a "Mittani has too much power, oh god" day, either way I assure you that I enjoy your hypocritical rage.
CCP CEO TO MITTENS:
"But some of my concerns right now relate to whether the CSM is maybe focused on a particular aspect of the game and I'm starting to get feedback from players that they worry the CSM is too pre-occupied by a certain playstyle. That might mean we may need to change the structure"
|

Takara Mora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 22:26:00 -
[264] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian --> love ur sig line:
"Reallocate funds for Icelandic air fare to developing an integrated player input function in the UI. Then talk directly to the customers with polls to collect demographics and game preferences"
Having a CSM is fine ... but real data should matter more ... |

C4LYP50
Solarwind Interstellar Mining and Production Ltd
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.23 06:27:00 -
[265] - Quote
Mr LaForge wrote:To the OP. STOP WHINING ABOUT NOTHING.
This CSM got CCP back on the right track in regards to EVE.
This. While I voted for someone else, I have to give credit to all the CSM this time around. These people jumped through hoops and dropped everything repeatedly to concentrate on fixing things that needed fixing, and were assailed on all sides for their stance, they were (and are) heroes to me. We owe them a bit of applause.
I don't always agree with what they say, or their views on alot of things, but over all, I feel these people were the guys we needed, on hand when we needed them. Cheers!
|

Mr R4nd0m
Ministry Of Mining And Industry Shit.Happens
22
|
Posted - 2011.10.23 13:58:00 -
[266] - Quote
C4LYP50 wrote:Mr LaForge wrote:To the OP. STOP WHINING ABOUT NOTHING.
This CSM got CCP back on the right track in regards to EVE. This. While I voted for someone else, I have to give credit to all the CSM this time around. These people jumped through hoops and dropped everything repeatedly to concentrate on fixing things that needed fixing, and were assailed on all sides for their stance, they were (and are) heroes to me. We owe them a bit of applause. I don't always agree with what they say, or their views on alot of things, but over all, I feel these people were the guys we needed, on hand when we needed them. Cheers!
Funny how you lot are in the MINORITY. Funny how more and more posts have risen, asking for the CSM to be removed. Not just me. Keep arguing your lame case. The simple fact is YOU HAVE NO SUPPORT. ITS GONE. GAME OVER.
The more you keep desperately clinging onto what ever dignity you have left, and trying to give some lame reason, the more stupid you are looking. IM sorry to be a bit flippant, but myself and many others have simple had enough.
|

Takara Mora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.23 15:13:00 -
[267] - Quote
How do we know the CSM had anything to do with any improvements? --> maybe it was CCP's balance sheet and shrinking subs instead? |

Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.23 15:47:00 -
[268] - Quote
Mr R4nd0m wrote: Funny how you lot are in the MINORITY. Funny how more and more posts have risen, asking for the CSM to be removed. Not just me. Keep arguing your lame case. The simple fact is YOU HAVE NO SUPPORT. ITS GONE. GAME OVER.
Funny how people who have no complaints with the product and/or service they are receiving rarely go complain on the internet eh? |

SMT008
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
145
|
Posted - 2011.10.23 16:04:00 -
[269] - Quote
Mr R4nd0m wrote: Funny how you lot are in the MINORITY. Funny how more and more posts have risen, asking for the CSM to be removed. Not just me. Keep arguing your lame case. The simple fact is YOU HAVE NO SUPPORT. ITS GONE. GAME OVER.
Come on, I too can create a bunch of forum alts and post IN CAPS all over the forums. It doesn't prove anything.
Also, you seems to be....somewhat mad about a video game. Go out, take a deep breath, it helps 
You might want to think about something like trains. You know, peoples complain when trains are late right ? They'll complain. When trains arrives right on time, they won't go all "Hurray nice job you did there !" because it's normal. It's how it's supposed to be. Deal with it.
|

Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
87
|
Posted - 2011.10.23 16:16:00 -
[270] - Quote
I assume he's forgetting to click the heels of his ruby slippers together while repeating things to make them come true. |
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