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** HILMAR - Remove the CSM Now...**

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Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 792	Posted - 2011.10.21 14:32:00 - [211] - Quote Mr Management wrote: The CSM is broken. The game was better in CCP's hand. When 5000 people can vote for their alliance leader who publically writes that he wants to break Eve then the system is flawed. No. It show that the system works. The "broken" part is that they only need 5,000 to get him the chair because the complainers can't stop complaining instead of activating and motivating an opposition. That's a flaw in the opposition, not the system. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Mr R4nd0m Ministry Of Mining And Industry Shit.Happens 16	Posted - 2011.10.21 14:35:00 - [212] - Quote Tippia wrote: Mr Management wrote: The CSM is broken. The game was better in CCP's hand. When 5000 people can vote for their alliance leader who publically writes that he wants to break Eve then the system is flawed. No. It show that the system works. The "broken" part is that they only need 5,000 to get him the chair because the complainers can't stop complaining instead of activating and motivating an opposition. That's a flaw in the opposition, not the system. Wow anything about goons, you are there feeling butthurt, goon alt spotted.... go away tippia you offer nothing of any worth.... 0/10
Jacob cirth Ion Corp. Citex Alliance 1	Posted - 2011.10.21 14:37:00 - [213] - Quote The problem with the CSM is they operate without the consent of the players. There was no option for "no CSM at all", and instead, a lot of people just clicked "abstain" or didn't bother to vote in the first place.
Ciar Meara Virtus Vindice 178	Posted - 2011.10.21 14:37:00 - [214] - Quote Karadion wrote: Ciar Meara wrote: Karadion wrote: "Goons this, goons that, goons everything, goons are ruining my "Walking in Station" experience! Give me my incarna, wah wah wah." Go play Second Life or in traffic. At least the CSM had some influence in getting CCP to dump their stupid Vampire MMO and scale down Dust that both of would have never worked. 1: They didn't 2: The Mittani was anything but critical in his view towards incarna and MT 3: Vile Rat didn't even care about buying golden scorpions with Aurum 4: CSM was late jumping on the bandwagon and is now some are trying to claim victory while all they did was ride along. 1) Yes they were 2) Wrong 3) Yes he did 4) Wrong again. All typical empire pubbie answers. I'll enjoy proving you wrong on all those statements. But I have to dig out the relevant forum topics where Vile Rat being is usual charming self and states that he doesn't care about golden scorpions and insults everybody for hours until somebody explains him about what everybody is talking about (him being CSM we explain it slowly, because he truly is clueless) and he (eventually) flip flops. (Mittani stated it also but at least he was drunk in a bar in Iceland when he did) The expansive posts, articles and twits of the Mittani saying its very good that MT is in the NeX/Incarna store because then it wouldn't impact FiS and it is a bold new plan yadayada etc. We all know the NeX was stillborn together with incarna cause without player driven content you can't actually DO anything while walking around. The teams working with WiS said exactly that a week or so ago. The Mittani even recanted and almost claimed he was wrong himself in one of his more recent articles showing that at least he has some sense. The minutes you like to rever to where a sad, useless and nothing saying document that held nothing of interest. Showing once again what the CSM truly is good at. Offcourse you don't have to argue with actual arguments, you can just go and continue to "yes, sir" without actually looking at facts, It is just easier that way, isn't it? I am not saying that A CSM isn't usefull I am saying that in this, only a select few had impact, and it was only by chance. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
SMT008 Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation 126	Posted - 2011.10.21 14:39:00 - [215] - Quote Mr Management wrote: The CSM is broken. The game was better in CCP's hand. Sure. More walking in a closet and more monocles. Go ahead. When 5000 people can vote for their alliance leader who publically writes that he wants to break Eve then the system is flawed. Nope. Check what's happening in real life. I'll take America as an exemple, despite how stupid that is. Two entites. Democrats and Republicans. Democrats ideas are stupidities, for Republicans. Republicans ideas are stupidities, for Democrats. If a Democrat wins the election because he had more votes, the republicans will yell at everyone something along the lines of "When peoples can vote for someone who publically says he wants to do that kind of things and that kind of things (Which are equals to self destruction, in the eyes of a republican), the system is flawed". I'm sorry but that's it. One's terrorist is another one's freedom fighter, am I right ? And damn it the CSM isn't all about the Mittani you know. The current list is : The Mittani (GSF) Vile Rat (GSF) UAxDeath (Legion of Death) Seleene (PL) Draco Llasa (Thundercats) Trebor Daehwood (Dirt Nap Squad) Meissa Anunthiel (Rooks and Kings) Killer2 (Morsus Mihi) White Tree (Elite space guild) GSF don't hold the majority of the council. Actually, more like 1/3 of it. And that's if you want to believe that everyone in GSF follow and blindly love everything the Mittani says. Which is untrue, but hey, can't force you to believe something you don't want to believe into, right ? Also, the one who wrote about how the fight between Country A and Country B is unbalanced because Country A has more peoples, well then Country B should try to find peoples to fight Country A with. You know, allies. If you don't have allies, get mercenaries to help you. If you don't have neither allies nor some spacemoney to pay mercenaries, well then why are you here in the first place ? Also, the tools to fight the blob exist. Those are called bombers (Ask Morsus Mihi, they use those. PL does aswell). Or, they are called "kiting fleets". You know, Tengus, Munnins, that kind of things. PL knows about Tengus and how they can still win outnumbered. They had a number problem, they came up with a well thought-out solution. Supercapitals en masse weren't counter-able. You can't kite, speed tank, sigtank, you can't jam them, you can't slow them down with webs, logistics or any kind of interdiction ships were blowed up to bits by Titans or endless hordes of drones and all fuckups were covered by the CTRLQ elite maneuver. That's why the supercapital nerf was needed.
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 1066	Posted - 2011.10.21 14:39:00 - [216] - Quote Mr R4nd0m wrote: Tippia wrote: Mr Management wrote: The CSM is broken. The game was better in CCP's hand. When 5000 people can vote for their alliance leader who publically writes that he wants to break Eve then the system is flawed. No. It show that the system works. The "broken" part is that they only need 5,000 to get him the chair because the complainers can't stop complaining instead of activating and motivating an opposition. That's a flaw in the opposition, not the system. Wow anything about goons, you are there feeling butthurt, goon alt spotted.... go away tippia you offer nothing of any worth.... 0/10 didn't you say you were getting out of the thread anyway offtopic post spotted, reported
Ya Huei Imperial Collective 18	Posted - 2011.10.21 14:39:00 - [217] - Quote Mr R4nd0m wrote: Well I guess Hilmar as the same reservations and concerns as us 'non goons' do. Who died and made you public speaker for all 'non goons' ?
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 1066	Posted - 2011.10.21 14:40:00 - [218] - Quote Jacob cirth wrote: The problem with the CSM is they operate without the consent of the players. There was no option for "no CSM at all", and instead, a lot of people just clicked "abstain" or didn't bother to vote in the first place. sure there is you run as a candidate who promises to do nothing when elected not our problem that not one of the thousands of you idiots thought up the solution I spotted in seconds
Mr R4nd0m Ministry Of Mining And Industry Shit.Happens 16	Posted - 2011.10.21 14:41:00 - [219] - Quote Weaselior wrote: Mr R4nd0m wrote: Tippia wrote: Mr Management wrote: The CSM is broken. The game was better in CCP's hand. When 5000 people can vote for their alliance leader who publically writes that he wants to break Eve then the system is flawed. No. It show that the system works. The "broken" part is that they only need 5,000 to get him the chair because the complainers can't stop complaining instead of activating and motivating an opposition. That's a flaw in the opposition, not the system. Wow anything about goons, you are there feeling butthurt, goon alt spotted.... go away tippia you offer nothing of any worth.... 0/10 didn't you say you were getting out of the thread anyway offtopic post spotted, reported Yeah sorry... I leave now...
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 1066	Posted - 2011.10.21 14:42:00 - [220] - Quote I will be that candidate, I am extremely lazy and will do nothing but jabber about worthless crap, vote for me
Meeogi Debitum Naturae RED.Legion 8	Posted - 2011.10.21 14:43:00 - [221] - Quote This has been the most effective CSM team in the history of the program. Good job guys.
Brooks Puuntai Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN. 206	Posted - 2011.10.21 14:43:00 - [222] - Quote Mr R4nd0m wrote: Tippia wrote: Mr Management wrote: The CSM is broken. The game was better in CCP's hand. When 5000 people can vote for their alliance leader who publically writes that he wants to break Eve then the system is flawed. No. It show that the system works. The "broken" part is that they only need 5,000 to get him the chair because the complainers can't stop complaining instead of activating and motivating an opposition. That's a flaw in the opposition, not the system. Wow anything about goons, you are there feeling butthurt, goon alt spotted.... go away tippia you offer nothing of any worth.... 0/10 So everyone who disagrees with you is a goon alt? Kindof a silly logic. Plus Tippia is awesome and pretty well known around the forums. Next your going to say Akita T or Chribba are Goon alts if they don't agree with you.
Mr R4nd0m Ministry Of Mining And Industry Shit.Happens 16	Posted - 2011.10.21 14:46:00 - [223] - Quote Brooks Puuntai wrote: Mr R4nd0m wrote: Tippia wrote: Mr Management wrote: The CSM is broken. The game was better in CCP's hand. When 5000 people can vote for their alliance leader who publically writes that he wants to break Eve then the system is flawed. No. It show that the system works. The "broken" part is that they only need 5,000 to get him the chair because the complainers can't stop complaining instead of activating and motivating an opposition. That's a flaw in the opposition, not the system. Wow anything about goons, you are there feeling butthurt, goon alt spotted.... go away tippia you offer nothing of any worth.... 0/10 So everyone who disagrees with you is a goon alt? Kindof a silly logic. Plus Tippia is awesome and pretty well known around the forums. Next your going to say Akita T or Chribba are Goon alts if they don't agree with you. Lol well known for his terrible posting, and his self righeous attitude you mean? Oh btw read hilmars quote (himself and OTHER PLAYERS) are concerned.. there must of been quite alot for him to pay attention..dont you think? anyway im out....now the post has been moved to jita, its just gonna get trolled by you lot...\o
Ya Huei Imperial Collective 18	Posted - 2011.10.21 14:47:00 - [224] - Quote hey u started it...
Vastek Non State War Academy Caldari State 24	Posted - 2011.10.21 14:57:00 - [225] - Quote Mr R4nd0m wrote: Brooks Puuntai wrote: RougeOperator wrote: BUT i can say that the CSM is not the issue here after reading the interview. Your right the current CSM isn't. However the CSM Process could be changed to have delegate positions for different aspects of the game, high, low, null. etc. So the CSM isn't completely biased towards a certain play style. This is the issue, not the current CSM or Goons. Sadly the OP is too butthurt over goons to realize this. I await getting reported for personal attack. You are entitled to your own opinion. If you want to lower yourself to the state of your forums, and participate in personal attacks, then thats up to you also. Seriously you need to calm down man. You are being trolled mercilessly by the Goons and are feeding them tasty cookies. I agree that their in game and forum response to people is pretty hopeless, to be polite, but why give them attention?
Vastek Non State War Academy Caldari State 24	Posted - 2011.10.21 15:01:00 - [226] - Quote Vile rat wrote: Vastek Non wrote: I find Vile Rats sudden interest in High Sec life a bit surprising, however am trying to be optimistic rather than my initial cynicism. Honestly my interest in highsec is because I've had several people point out (correctly) that we haven't done a good enough job bringing attention to this gameplay style and I agree. I'm going to make an effort and do what I can. Also I'm a one term candidate and have posted publicly, before I even got elected, that I was only going to run for one term. I don't have to care about 'pandering' accusations at all thankfully. Ok, good to hear (the bit about paying attention to more than just your powerblock). Honestly i'm mostly a HS player, but in reality we all know that massive sections of the game need looking at,mostly null to be honest. I have no problem with that and if you want to run for a second term and are looking out for the game, good luck to you.
Jade Constantine Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction 630	Posted - 2011.10.21 15:15:00 - [227] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: Jade Constantine wrote: While I wouldn't be quite so crass as the poster above me. This does actually illustrate a problem with this CSM. Mittani's personality is quite dominant in that group and it has become apparent its a case of mr Mittani organgrinder and his half dozen monkeys. It does damage the balance of the CSM when its quite obvious only one person is calling the shots and the rest are just acting like beta followers rather than presenting individual and independent viewpoints. Some people with strong personalities are able to dominate those around them. Even if what you say is true, what you describe is not a 'problem with the CSM', its a basic feature of human interaction. Yes and no. I do agree it is an issue with human interaction certainly. This CSM has been pretty smooth internally with a united front and all that - but it has seemed a bit monotheistic at times. Good and bad I guess, but this thread was sparked by Hillmar's comment that a lot of people are worried about the nullsec vote bloc dominated CSM. I guess the proposal might be that in the future nullsec get 3 seats, hisec get 3 seats, lowsec/fw/RP etc get 3 seats? I dunno something like that. That way you might at least get 3 sets of stronger personalities rather than one alpha male and other bloc vote candidates who either drop out earlier or learn to tow the line. Not sure exactly how it would (or could) work but its clearly something being considered. For what its worth I think Mittani and this CSM have achieved some good things with publicising the Jita Riots and working on our behalf to mobilize the gaming press against CCP's summer insanity. Sometimes you need unity! But the bad things like the NeX collaboration (boo-hiss) happen because Mittani didn't care and nobody else was sufficiently different enough in opinion and strong enough to stand up and be heard on it. Despite the crazy horror show that was the battles on the first CSM (where certain delegates had to get threatened with being thrown in the habour) it did at least serve as a meeting point of different interest groups who genuinely did their best to represent and advocate message from their parts of the community. It was a constant internal war but it did at least bring Eve together on the conference floor. The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting!
Jade Constantine Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction 630	Posted - 2011.10.21 15:19:00 - [228] - Quote Tippia wrote: Mr Management wrote: The CSM is broken. The game was better in CCP's hand. When 5000 people can vote for their alliance leader who publically writes that he wants to break Eve then the system is flawed. No. It show that the system works. The "broken" part is that they only need 5,000 to get him the chair because the complainers can't stop complaining instead of activating and motivating an opposition. That's a flaw in the opposition, not the system. Listen to Tippia. She knows what she's talking about. The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting!
Signal11th 152	Posted - 2011.10.21 15:20:00 - [229] - Quote Jade Constantine wrote: Tippia wrote: Mr Management wrote: The CSM is broken. The game was better in CCP's hand. When 5000 people can vote for their alliance leader who publically writes that he wants to break Eve then the system is flawed. No. It show that the system works. The "broken" part is that they only need 5,000 to get him the chair because the complainers can't stop complaining instead of activating and motivating an opposition. That's a flaw in the opposition, not the system. Listen to Tippia. She knows what she's talking about. Wel not exactly hidden knowledge that one is it? Talk about saying the blindingly obvious. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster.
baltec1 129	Posted - 2011.10.21 15:24:00 - [230] - Quote Mr R4nd0m wrote: baltec1 wrote: I'm betting this thread would not even be here if it wasn't for the war agaist the ice giants. Nothing but tears and attempts to get back at people doing pvp in a pvp game. Wow you really believe that? People were not whining about goons untill they started the ice war and the boot CSM posts started soon after. So yea, I do. Personally, this CSM have pushed to get many problems I have had with eve for years and given that the vast bulk are now getting fixed I would say successfull CSM, will vote for them again.
Signal11th 152	Posted - 2011.10.21 15:29:00 - [231] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Mr R4nd0m wrote: baltec1 wrote: I'm betting this thread would not even be here if it wasn't for the war agaist the ice giants. Nothing but tears and attempts to get back at people doing pvp in a pvp game. Wow you really believe that? People were not whining about goons untill they started the ice war and the boot CSM posts started soon after. So yea, I do. Personally, this CSM have pushed to get many problems I have had with eve for years and given that the vast bulk are now getting fixed I would say successfull CSM, will vote for them again. Humm half agree half not, People have been complaining about Goons for years, some of it deserved some of it not, I think there's a section of the populace that are just bored with them (not me btw) CSM for me have been pretty good as I've mentioned in lots of posts I even quite like Darius for his not give a damn attitude. My only problem with them is it's slightly 0.0 heavy but thats the voters lack of action causing th eproblem not the CSM's God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster.
Weaselior BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation 1068	Posted - 2011.10.21 15:43:00 - [232] - Quote Signal11th wrote: Humm half agree half not, People have been complaining about Goons for years, some of it deserved some of it not, I think there's a section of the populace that are just bored with them (not me btw I find them quite quaint) yes but we didn't manage the deluge of goons :argh: post until we butchered over a thousand miners like swine
Signal11th 154	Posted - 2011.10.21 15:47:00 - [233] - Quote Weaselior wrote: Signal11th wrote: Humm half agree half not, People have been complaining about Goons for years, some of it deserved some of it not, I think there's a section of the populace that are just bored with them (not me btw I find them quite quaint) yes but we didn't manage the deluge of goons :argh: post until we butchered over a thousand miners like swine you may have a point God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster.
baltec1 129	Posted - 2011.10.21 15:54:00 - [234] - Quote Signal11th wrote: you may have a point I think its safe to say the skull mountain has made many bitter
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 101	Posted - 2011.10.21 16:34:00 - [235] - Quote Jade Constantine wrote: Scatim Helicon wrote: Jade Constantine wrote: While I wouldn't be quite so crass as the poster above me. This does actually illustrate a problem with this CSM. Mittani's personality is quite dominant in that group and it has become apparent its a case of mr Mittani organgrinder and his half dozen monkeys. It does damage the balance of the CSM when its quite obvious only one person is calling the shots and the rest are just acting like beta followers rather than presenting individual and independent viewpoints. Some people with strong personalities are able to dominate those around them. Even if what you say is true, what you describe is not a 'problem with the CSM', its a basic feature of human interaction. Yes and no. I do agree it is an issue with human interaction certainly. This CSM has been pretty smooth internally with a united front and all that - but it has seemed a bit monotheistic at times. Good and bad I guess, but this thread was sparked by Hillmar's comment that a lot of people are worried about the nullsec vote bloc dominated CSM. CSM 6's 0.0 'monotheism' came about mostly as a response to the reverse situation in CSM 5, except that 0.0 responded by getting out the vote, not screeching to Hilmar that the voting process was unfair and that we needed some form of positive discrimination to give seats to less popular candidates. Quote: I guess the proposal might be that in the future nullsec get 3 seats, hisec get 3 seats, lowsec/fw/RP etc get 3 seats? I dunno something like that. That way you might at least get 3 sets of stronger personalities rather than one alpha male and other bloc vote candidates who either drop out earlier or learn to tow the line. Not sure exactly how it would (or could) work but its clearly something being considered. I don't think this can work, simply because CSMs are human players rather than spaceship characters. If I have a highsec alt and a 0.0 alt and I run for CSM, which 'constituency' am I? Mittani currently spends most of his playing time killing ice miners in Gallente space, does that make him a highsec candidate? What if a 'highsec' character runs for CSM and his corp then joins a nullsec alliance? What if a nullsec candidate has their space invaded and they get evicted and flee to lowsec or wormspace?
Vaffel Junior NorCorp Security 65	Posted - 2011.10.21 16:34:00 - [236] - Quote CCP.... Do CSM their job ? Or have it turned in to weapon ? Maby find a new way to get EVE playerbase opinion ?
Jade Constantine Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction 635	Posted - 2011.10.21 17:00:00 - [237] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: CSM 6's 0.0 'monotheism' came about mostly as a response to the reverse situation in CSM 5, except that 0.0 responded by getting out the vote, not screeching to Hilmar that the voting process was unfair and that we needed some form of positive discrimination to give seats to less popular candidates. Well as you've probably noticed I'm not exactly that empathic about people whining about CSM and not voting - I do despise the section of the community that can't be bothered to vote and then says CSM doesn't represent them. But. There is a problem in that Nullsec alliances are simply better organized at conjuring bloc votes to get their candidates in and while you can leave it to tooth and claw and say "screw highsec if they can't get decent candidates and vote" I guess the reality of it is that highsec players tend to be more casual and less inclined to full engagement with the community. Quote: don't think this can work, simply because CSMs are human players rather than spaceship characters. If I have a highsec alt and a 0.0 alt and I run for CSM, which 'constituency' am I? Mittani currently spends most of his playing time killing ice miners in Gallente space, does that make him a highsec candidate? What if a 'highsec' character runs for CSM and his corp then joins a nullsec alliance? What if a nullsec candidate has their space invaded and they get evicted and flee to lowsec or wormspace? I guess you'd choose which kind of seat you wanted to contest at the time you entered the race - alongside registering your rl name and address and details etc you choose which kind of seat you were going for. Mittani would be free to run for a highsec seat but maybe only highsec players get to vote in that constituancy ? (who knows, I really don't have any specific proposal here) But something probably does need to be done to ensure more variety in future CSMs - I think none of us really benefit from the monotheistic ones for a couple of reasons -> 1. they do miss important issues (as this one managed to miss NeX) and 2. it does become easier for CCP to ignore a particular CSM when they are armed by the whines of the community saying its unrepresentative of most players. The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting!
Mallak Azaria Hole Plunderer's 16	Posted - 2011.10.21 17:04:00 - [238] - Quote This thread delivers.... Carebear tears!
Signal11th 157	Posted - 2011.10.21 17:10:00 - [239] - Quote Mallak Azaria wrote: This thread delivers.... Carebear tears! It also delivers fail posts God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster.
The Mittani GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1378	Posted - 2011.10.21 17:20:00 - [240] - Quote The CSM has been going from success to success, but ever since Goonswarm began killing miners in hisec, a gaggle of politically naive rabble have been making thread after thread about me. While I can't keep track day-to-day if it's a "CSM is powerless and a joke" day or a "Mittani has too much power, oh god" day, either way I assure you that I enjoy your hypocritical rage.

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