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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
1259
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Posted - 2013.07.04 00:59:00 -
[91] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Have to disagree here, Multiple targeting gets right to the point in no uncertain terms, while the more vague 'management' could mean almost anything really.
Same for Adv. target mgmt idea, too vague a title.
this is eve online, where we fit Alumel Omni ECCM Sensor Array to our ships. a little less clarity in the name of a skill is a fair price to pay for not feeling like an idiot while talking about it. multiple targeting sounds like multiple sclerosis and has to go away.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Soren Chelien
Invicta Animas
3
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Posted - 2013.07.04 01:05:00 -
[92] - Quote
"Spaceship Piloting" sounds a bit off, now "Space Command" is a name with power to it. |
Darth Kilth
Silver Guardians
Fidelas Constans
130
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Posted - 2013.07.04 01:11:00 -
[93] - Quote
Am I the only one who kind of prefers the skills/skillgroups sounding a bit more in-universe? |
Systems Online
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.07.04 01:12:00 -
[94] - Quote
I do not like a skill name starting with an acronym. Pronouncing "SEE PEE YOU" Management. is just awkward.
I suggest "Processor Management" "Electronics Management" "Electronics Systems Operation" or something like that.
+1 for KEEPING "SPACE SHIP COMMAND" there is NO reason to change this.
+1 for Target Management instead of "Multiple Targeting" |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS strain SELKURK
11
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Posted - 2013.07.04 01:13:00 -
[95] - Quote
Quote:Engineering: now has all skills related with energy management and fittings in general.
Contains the Advanced Weapon Upgrades and Weapon Upgrades skills [snipped for space].
1. Weapon Upgrades has always been a vague title so it needs changed (same with Adv. Wpn. Upgrades).
2. Moving Weapon Upgrades to Engineering really doesn't work as someone else pointed out, a better solution would be to divide the skill into a turret and missile variants with appropriate refund for those skilled into it already.
3. Minmatar often don't need weapon upgrades but do need Advanced Weapon Upgrades and skilling up to 5 in a skill you dont need is painful, please rename both weapon upgrades and Adv. weapon Upgrades and then remove weapon upgrades as a prerequisite for Advanced weapon upgrades as they have nothing to do with one another, completely different aspects of fitting weapons.
whereas the semantics of naming wpn upgrades and adv. wpn upgrades and where they ultimately end up in the skill tree is relatively unimportant in the grand scheme of things, the third suggestion to unhook wpn. upgrades as a prerequisite for adv. wpn. upgrades is absolutely vital. |
Lockefox
Koshaku
Gentlemen's Agreement
1
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Posted - 2013.07.04 01:13:00 -
[96] - Quote
Really glad to see skills getting a once-over for understandings sake.
One feature I think was missed here though is balancing this reorganization against skill attributes.
Far and away, the current system is attributes are grouped by skill group:
Mechanic: Memory/Intelligence
Weapons: Perception/Willpower
Science: Intelligence/Memory
... etc
And with the current grouping we're crossing a lot of streams. PI skills do not have the same attribute pairs as scanning (Command Center Upgrades/Interplanetary Consolidation have Charisma/Intelligence). Weapon Upgrades does not have the same pairing as the rest of the fitting skills...
I think it might be worth while to evaluate the attribute pairs as well in this pass. If players can already pick skills in groups that make sense, shouldn't it be a priority to enable them to balance their attributes with those goals?
Second:
There are a lot of skills that are kind of ambiguous in their bonuses and use. Pairs like Energy Management and Energy Systems Operation can be somewhat confusing to newer players. Is there any consideration being paid to either changing the skill names, or pairing down/combining some skills? Personally, I'd love an attention to re balancing skills/ranks/attributes of the same magnitude as the recent T1 ship balances, but that's fiddling with the backbone of EVE.
Outside of those two points, I think this is an excellent change! Less overhead and confusion is better for everyone! |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS strain SELKURK
11
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Posted - 2013.07.04 01:20:00 -
[97] - Quote
Echo Mande wrote:So so but needs more work.
Some commentary:
What is Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration doing in Electronic systems?
Why did Industrial Reconfiguration end up in resource processing?
Both of these skills really ought to be elsewhere. TLR probably belongs in Armor or Engineering (along with tactical weapons reconfiguration) and IR probably belongs in Production or Engineering.
As far as groups go, maybe armor and shield should be combined in 'Protection'.
I'm missing quite a number of skills (Cynosural field theory to name one)
"Protection" is a vague term as ECM is also a form of protection.
Keeping Armor and Shields separated is appropriate i dont want to look through a huge list of armor skills as a shield pilot. |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS strain SELKURK
11
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Posted - 2013.07.04 01:30:00 -
[98] - Quote
removed as poster retracted his statement. |
Defiant Blessings
United Miners Inc.
Wrath.
9
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Posted - 2013.07.04 01:36:00 -
[99] - Quote
- Spaceship Command +1
- Target Acquisition / Advanced Target Acquisition +1
- Subsystem skills independent category +1
- Planetary Interaction skills independent category +1
My personal thoughts:
Thanks alot, I just started a video series using all these old names. 
Eve Business Insider
Dedicated to all things passive, our new series focuses on showing younger players the tools required to effectively manage wealth and build financial stability!
http://www.youtube.com/user/EveBusinessInsider |
pmchem
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
540
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 01:38:00 -
[100] - Quote
every third party dev dealing with skills just slit their wrists
@pmchem on twitter || GARPA || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS strain SELKURK
11
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Posted - 2013.07.04 01:40:00 -
[101] - Quote
Isara Aulx-Gao wrote:Whoa never change a running system.
why .... tell me why we need new names for the skills??
This is EVE, a harsh place to live, and not Hello Kitty in Space, let the new Player learn the old Names.
Damm next time comes the win button for new Players, because they can-¦t fly a Titan in 5 Days.
NO Mainstream ****
Next time just type:
SBVP
(Standard Bitter Vet Post) |
Yazzinra
Scorpion Ventures
Rim Worlds Protectorate
4
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Posted - 2013.07.04 01:41:00 -
[102] - Quote
spaceship command, not piloting.
keep the PI tree together. seriously, less booze when discussing changes.
also, who wants to start the pool on how many skills you currently have at 5 end up at 0, or not showing up at all. |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS strain SELKURK
11
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Posted - 2013.07.04 01:45:00 -
[103] - Quote
Zetrick wrote:I have a suggestion. Leave it. If it aint broke don't fix it 
Becoming used to a broken system doesn't fix the system, change is needed. |
Allianc
Novatech Armada
Against ALL Authorities
5
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Posted - 2013.07.04 01:46:00 -
[104] - Quote
lets keep the Spaceship Command and Missile Launcher Operation groups. They sound nice. |
Sirran The Lunatic
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
10
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Posted - 2013.07.04 01:47:00 -
[105] - Quote
Yazzinra wrote:spaceship command, not piloting.
Agreed.
Sounds 85% lamer when placed with "Piloting"... |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS strain SELKURK
11
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 01:52:00 -
[106] - Quote
Edward Olmops wrote:A few comments.
CCP should really make an effort to make EVE more beginner-friendly, no doubt.
Some skills like Multitasking and Nanite Control ought to be renamed, because the name is utterly misleading. But.
You are going way to far with this concept.
As many before me have already stated, many of the proposed name changes are uninspiring.
Space Ship Command should really be spaceship command. Really, what's the point?
Also: Every name change that you do also has a NEGATIVE impact on the playability. Simply because all ressources on the web will be outdated.
I have experienced that over and over again with previous renamings (e.g. Auto-Targeting Missiles).
Maybe a newbie didn't get what a F.O.F. missile was.
But a newbie with some minimum cleverness managed to throw that expression into Google and whoa - here we go.
But try to find something if the name has changed during the last two years...
I am really sad about what happened (not) to Evelopedia. I used that A LOT, that was one of my primary ressources when I was a noob. But now it's utterly useless, because each and every single ship and item has been rebalanced.
That should of course not imply that you stop rebalancing because of Evelopedia - God forbid!
But it shows the effect.
There should be only things renamed when it'S REALLY necessary.
And maybe it would also be noob-friendly to update Evelopedia.
That said, I for example always thought it was good that some skills (Electronics, Engineering, Social...) had the same name as their category. That way I would always know which one was the "basc" skill in the category which I needed to train first.
The one that has the most impact on what I was doing.
Compare Electronics (+5% CPU) to Target Breaker Amplification (+?% weird nonsense).
Anything that makes it more likely that new players put their energy into the important skills to let them get into the game faster is a good thing.
Leaving a messed up system of naming and hierarchy because 3rd party application producers will have to do some work isnt a valid reason for keeping things the same, if we use that logic then CCP would have to freeze all development on EVE as any development would have 3rd party app. builders doing rework.
If a 3rd party app producer cannot keep up with the game as it changes perhaps they need to stop developing apps and do something else with their time.
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Taleden
North Wind Local no. 612
45
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Posted - 2013.07.04 01:53:00 -
[107] - Quote
A lot of folks have been asking about attributes, but only in terms of preserving the current scheme of primary/secondary attributes affecting training time and having consistent patterns of those attributes across skills within a group.
I'd like to take that discussion a step further and ask whether attributes' effects on skill training time are really a game mechanic you want to keep, or whether it's time to let them go. The upside of that system is that it allows people to feel like they're tailoring their character toward what they want to do -- combat pilots can remap to per/wil to train almost all ship command and weapons skills, while industry characters can remap to int/mem to train science and production skills.
But the system has significant downsides as well -- it encourages people to *not* train skills that they could use in the short term, simply because training against their current remap would be "less efficient" than waiting until they can remap attributes. This is especially bothersome for brand new combat pilots who need lots of int/mem support skills to go with their per/wil combat skills. Those pilots must make a lame choice: train "inefficiently" in order to get all the skills they need, or use up bonus remaps or wait over a year before they can be combat-effective.
I'm not sure the upsides really outweigh the downsides at this point. You made a similar conclusion about the Learning skills years ago, and I think that was the correct one, but I think it's time now to make the next step and do away with attributes affecting skill training time.
The simple fix is to just remove attributes entirely, but that would be frowned on by everyone who's invested in expensive implants. Another possible alternative is to let attributes grant some slight amplification of the skills they affect, rather than a training time bonus. So, for example, remapping to per/wil grants an extra +5% amplifier to all skills which are governed by per/wil (i.e. Surgical Strike grants +3% turret damage per level if you're remapped to int/mem, but +3.15% per level if you're mapped per/wil).
Regardless, I'd love some discussion of whether the skill training time optimization mechanic via attributes and remaps is really an interesting enough game mechanic to be worth the un-fun waiting-to-train or training-inefficiently gameplay that it brings along with it. |
Bob Shaftoes
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
17
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Posted - 2013.07.04 01:54:00 -
[108] - Quote
I too wish to know what effect this is going to have on skill attributes
Right now they are all grouped into pairs of attributes which are basically given via what skill category you are in.
Spaceship command and gunnery are per / will and electronics / engineering are always int / mem
Will all this shifting around change the attributes of the skills as defined by the category or will they stay the same?
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS strain SELKURK
11
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Posted - 2013.07.04 02:01:00 -
[109] - Quote
Taya Greathame wrote:As someone else has said, fix things stop changing things.
Rebalancing was annoying, giving tech one ships tech style roles. what fun can i have in a osprey now?
Dumb the game down, hope to increase subscription figures and playerbase.
gna start saving to buy my skillpoints.
Ps, EA gonna ruin you.
1. They are fixing a broken system.
2. Off topic references aren't helpful to the current topic of discussion.
3. See also: Standard Bitter Vet Post (SBVP)
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS strain SELKURK
11
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Posted - 2013.07.04 02:12:00 -
[110] - Quote
Sofia Roseburn wrote:Don't fix what isn't broken.
Exactly !
But do fix a very broken skill naming structure and heirarchy:
example: weapon upgrades which affects missiles is listed under turrets and i personally took a month to realize it was there, probably would have been longer if i wasn't an avid help channel watcher.
Just one of many changes that are currently needed. |
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Alpheias
Euphoria Released
Verge of Collapse
2203
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 02:28:00 -
[111] - Quote
If you are going to change Spaceship Command to something, go with Starship Control. :p
Something else I'd look at it is to combine the two specialization skills for each gun type in the gunnery tree into something resembling what you find in the missile tree, like heavy missile specialization.
Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on. |
Mirel Dystoph
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
75
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Posted - 2013.07.04 02:30:00 -
[112] - Quote
This whole idea is one of the worst since the item renaming thing.
Just don't touch it.
Or maybe just touch what is broken. (Hint: Not everything is broken)
"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise."-á |
Draconic Slayer
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
29
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Posted - 2013.07.04 02:51:00 -
[113] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+
Keep Electronics and Engineering names the same... might just be nestalgia but never heard they were a problem... seems quite straightforward to me.
Targeting - Target Acquisition
Multitasking - Advanced Target Acquisition
GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+
Yes.
Sentient Blade wrote:Electronic Systems sounds vague. I think I'd much rather see the group called Electronic Warfare and the existing Electronic Warfare skill become Sensor Jamming.
Lumping Weapon Upgrades in with PG Enhancements seems odd, considering it's a perception / willpower branch and everything else is Int / Mem.
Yes.
Harvey James wrote:how about renaming hull upgrades to armour integrity so it actually explains that it improves your armour HP
and same with mechanics becoming structural integrity.
maybe split hull upgrades into its own skill because of the other mods that use it still.
Also it begs the question why do Assault frigs need mechanics lv5 as a prereq? .. weapon upgrades lv4 perhaps instead
Yes.
Also, keep Planetary Interaction skills in their own independent category along with Spaceship Command the same. |
MItchell Jensen
Gravit Negotii
Northern Associates.
27
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Posted - 2013.07.04 03:08:00 -
[114] - Quote
Some of those names are really... boring. They don't really sound that science fictiony.
I mean seriously, Spaceship Piloting?
You're giving skills for adults to fly kilometer long ships that have the capability of putting a hole in the crust of a planet and you're making our skills sound like we're still in the 8th grade.
I know my disagreement will not be recognised (I'm also convinced that only 2 people will read this) but all in all I'm a bit disappointed with this naming change.
CCP Dropbear: rofledit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir. |
Sarkelias Anophius
Strange Energy
Gentlemen's Agreement
1
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Posted - 2013.07.04 03:16:00 -
[115] - Quote
These changes are moronic and cater to people too illiterate and incapable to be playing this game to begin with. I do not approve of any of these changes and hope they are withdrawn.
This smells of the homogenization and nerfing that has sent every other MMO into the dirt. This game is what it is because it requires attention and some reading skills. I do not want to lose this to the crybaby masses. |
Brother Mercury
Fire on the Mountain
4
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Posted - 2013.07.04 03:17:00 -
[116] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
...things...
Okay, I guess.
Now go spend your time doing something important. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5402
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Posted - 2013.07.04 03:18:00 -
[117] - Quote
Sounds mostly fine, but I really don't like spaceship piloting. It's meh to start with and sounds like many of the navigation skills could/should belong in it. Spaceship command sounds better and is much more clearly separated from the actual navigation of a spaceship. |
Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
76
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Posted - 2013.07.04 03:30:00 -
[118] - Quote
Multiple Targeting -----> Multi Targeting |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
484
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Posted - 2013.07.04 03:35:00 -
[119] - Quote
Good to see that your team is hard at it changing fields in the database.
What are you guys going to do for the other 364 days of the coming year?
Rifterlings Corporation is now recruiting pilots for faction warfare solo & small gang frigate PvP. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Rena Monachica
Capital Hot Rods
0
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Posted - 2013.07.04 03:35:00 -
[120] - Quote
looks ok
I could live without the change, but whatever floats your boat
anyway, keep Spaceship Command. Piloting just sounds lame |
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