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Sticky:[Odyssey 1.1] Skill group name changes

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 8 post(s)
Harvey James Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 173	Posted - 2013.07.03 18:34:00 - [61] - Quote Alexila Quant wrote: Please do not combine the subsystems group with the rigs group. They are not the same thing and adding 20 skills to the already long rig skill list will be counterproductive. Please do NOT separate the PI skills into different places. It's counterproductive. perhaps have a rig section on its own and leave the PI section .. it makes more sense you need to reduce the amount of skills in each section really.. Drone improvements/ideas for improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133767 Electronic Attack Frigate ideas for improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1986048#post1986048
Throktar Deep Core Mining Inc. 29	Posted - 2013.07.03 18:34:00 - [62] - Quote +1 to most of this. Keep Spaceship Command...I command, I do not "pilot" Keep Planetary Interaction as is...its all there and what else do you do with it? Keep Sub-Systems as is...same as above
Hashi Lebwohl Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance 30	Posted - 2013.07.03 18:36:00 - [63] - Quote The game should not encourage new players to train immediately a skill that will be useless to them. When you redo the certificate can I suggest that you move all the shield compensation skills from Shield reinforcement basic to shield reinforcement elite. These skills were gutted to apply solely to passive hardeners and there are no really decent passive hardeners until you get to faction modules. Its ok for armor compensation skills to be in a basic certificate requirement because there are decent passive options for the new player - the default energized adaptive nano membranes for example. There are no fully passive shield fits that would be recommended to new, and not so new, player - these fits are normally highly specialised fits on tech II ships or supers and there location in the certificate plan should reflect this.
Isara Aulx-Gao GAO Industrials 0	Posted - 2013.07.03 18:40:00 - [64] - Quote Whoa never change a running system. why .... tell me why we need new names for the skills?? This is EVE, a harsh place to live, and not Hello Kitty in Space, let the new Player learn the old Names. Damm next time comes the win button for new Players, because they can-¦t fly a Titan in 5 Days. NO Mainstream ****
Harvey James Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 173	Posted - 2013.07.03 18:44:00 - [65] - Quote Hashi Lebwohl wrote: The game should not encourage new players to train immediately a skill that will be useless to them. When you redo the certificate can I suggest that you move all the shield compensation skills from Shield reinforcement basic to shield reinforcement elite. These skills were gutted to apply solely to passive hardeners and there are no really decent passive hardeners until you get to faction modules. Its ok for armor compensation skills to be in a basic certificate requirement because there are decent passive options for the new player - the default energized adaptive nano membranes for example. There are no fully passive shield fits that would be recommended to new, and not so new, player - these fits are normally highly specialised fits on tech II ships or supers and there location in the certificate plan should reflect this. Shield Resistance Amplifiers need a buff they use up too much cpu where as Armour Resistance Plating uses no cpu .. granted shield amps are better than the armour versions but still ... Drone improvements/ideas for improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133767 Electronic Attack Frigate ideas for improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1986048#post1986048
Obunagawe 157	Posted - 2013.07.03 18:52:00 - [66] - Quote Only name changes or will there be primary/secondary attribute changes to go with the changed groups...
Dersen Lowery Laurentson INC StructureDamage 585	Posted - 2013.07.03 19:01:00 - [67] - Quote +1 to keeping "Spaceship Command." Targeting could become "Target Acquisition" and Multitasking "Advanced Target Acquisition" if you wanted to change them (I can tell you that the name "Multitasking" confused the heck out of me when I started--I thought it controlled the number of targets you could shoot!). The rest of it is good enough. I don't understand why "Energy Systems Operation" and "Energy Management" doing become "Capacitor Operation" and "Capacitor Management" instead, though. If you're going to go there, go all the way. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
PinkKnife Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 364	Posted - 2013.07.03 19:52:00 - [68] - Quote I'm all for these changes. I've had so many new players get pissed off because in order to use a light missile launcher you need the unlock skill before the improvement skill. It makes sense in Dust, but not in EVE because there is no tree, just an arbitrary list with arbitrary names. obfuscation for the sake of "sounding sci-fi" or "immersion" is crap, and ruins the game. It isn't dumbing down the game to not make it a labyrinthine pain in the ass just to train skills. Accessibility != ease. "Wait you mean there's an electronics skill, and an electronics group"? ****, I've been playing this game for 3 years and I still get confused on what is in engineering and what is in electronics. New names are awesome, look what changing them did for the implants, It is SO much easier to understand what the game is conveying now. You don't need to read 7 books of lore to figure out what implants do what. As for the skill attributes, the idea of keeping things organized by remap plans is pretty weak. Almost all remapping plans use third party clients that map everything out for you. CCP has no in game remap/skill planning tools, so it makes no sense to keep these the same based on third party options, that already organize things based on skills priority/attribute/user preference. Also, Is there plans to update the certificates in general? A few of those are awfully out of date.
Sable Moran Moran Light Industries 182	Posted - 2013.07.03 20:09:00 - [69] - Quote Rayzilla Zaraki wrote: marVLs wrote: Cool but "Spaceship Piloting" ? Spaceship Command sounds better I'm with this guy. "Spaceship Piloting" is a little too limp-wristed. Spaceship piloting really is limp-wristed, to me it suggests taking a spaceship from A to B and nothing else. Commanding the spaceship includes such satisfactory experiences as blowing other spaceships up. Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Zetrick Resurrection Ninjas. That Escalated Quickly 31	Posted - 2013.07.03 20:34:00 - [70] - Quote I have a suggestion. Leave it. If it aint broke don't fix it

Freighdee Katt Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 237	Posted - 2013.07.03 21:21:00 - [71] - Quote As long as you proper case everything and get your singulars and your plurals all together, sounds good.
Qestroy Bio-Tech Research Tribal Band 6	Posted - 2013.07.03 21:57:00 - [72] - Quote Rayzilla Zaraki wrote: marVLs wrote: Cool but "Spaceship Piloting" ? Spaceship Command sounds better I'm with this guy. "Spaceship Piloting" is a little too limp-wristed. This and This. And the Engineering and Electronics points people have raised, they sound good, they are pre-reqs for basically everything, everyone has them at 5 super quickly and promptly forgets their existance. You're Fixing It. It Ain't Broke. Don't Fix It. *It Ain't Broke!*
Taoist Dragon The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing 486	Posted - 2013.07.03 22:58:00 - [73] - Quote Echoing the 'Keep Spaceship Command' skill group. We command our ships not pilot them! This isn't some twitch shooter THIS IS EVE! A deep complex space beheamoth that is generally awesome. Also keep the PI skills as they are 'Scanning' ?! Pfft! Subsystems are probably unique enough to warrant their own group as is. Especially since you can lose SP in these pretty easily. Other than that probably a good change for newer players but will just frustrate older players for a short while until they adapt to it. (I'm still not used to the bloody dock button's new position!!) That is the Way, the Tao. Balance is everything.
Aramis Defranzac Wild.Stallions 22	Posted - 2013.07.03 23:08:00 - [74] - Quote +1 for keeping "Spaceship Command" busy work indeed, put a toilet in my pilot house, I mean captain's quarters
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 593	Posted - 2013.07.03 23:12:00 - [75] - Quote Rayzilla Zaraki wrote: marVLs wrote: Cool but "Spaceship Piloting" ? Spaceship Command sounds better I'm with this guy. "Spaceship Piloting" is a little too limp-wristed. Not empty double-quoting.
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Academy The ROC 364	Posted - 2013.07.03 23:19:00 - [76] - Quote +1 for keeping Spaceship Command. As to the rest... I'll get used to it. I've learned over time what everything is and where it goes, but recently I have gotten my wife to start playing, and she is confused as all hell. So I can definitely see this as removing an unneccessary (that being the key) barrier to entry for new players. Please note, that I am all for barriers to gameplay for newbies, no one should get things handed to them. But like the scanning mechanics of the (ancient) past, this was just over complicated, for no good reason. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Little Dragon Khamez Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition 241	Posted - 2013.07.03 23:45:00 - [77] - Quote More dumbing down it seems. You asked for advice about certificates and come back with this ** when no one to my knowledge has ever complained about the skill names or descriptions. I do not want eve to be welcoming and easy to understand for noobs. The fact that it is hard to understand and requires some intellect is where we the community get our quality control from. This is not hello ***** kitty online. The day it starts to resemble it is the day you will lose your hardcore player base. We eve players are a cut above the players of other mmos, were all elite players even the noobs that decide to stick with eve because it's unique and beautiful and hard to master. Tiericide is tiers by another name.
Edward Olmops Sirius Fleet Cerberus Unleashed 74	Posted - 2013.07.03 23:53:00 - [78] - Quote A few comments. CCP should really make an effort to make EVE more beginner-friendly, no doubt. Some skills like Multitasking and Nanite Control ought to be renamed, because the name is utterly misleading. But. You are going way to far with this concept. As many before me have already stated, many of the proposed name changes are uninspiring. Space Ship Command should really be spaceship command. Really, what's the point? Also: Every name change that you do also has a NEGATIVE impact on the playability. Simply because all ressources on the web will be outdated. I have experienced that over and over again with previous renamings (e.g. Auto-Targeting Missiles). Maybe a newbie didn't get what a F.O.F. missile was. But a newbie with some minimum cleverness managed to throw that expression into Google and whoa - here we go. But try to find something if the name has changed during the last two years... I am really sad about what happened (not) to Evelopedia. I used that A LOT, that was one of my primary ressources when I was a noob. But now it's utterly useless, because each and every single ship and item has been rebalanced. That should of course not imply that you stop rebalancing because of Evelopedia - God forbid! But it shows the effect. There should be only things renamed when it'S REALLY necessary. And maybe it would also be noob-friendly to update Evelopedia. That said, I for example always thought it was good that some skills (Electronics, Engineering, Social...) had the same name as their category. That way I would always know which one was the "basc" skill in the category which I needed to train first. The one that has the most impact on what I was doing. Compare Electronics (+5% CPU) to Target Breaker Amplification (+?% weird nonsense). Anything that makes it more likely that new players put their energy into the important skills to let them get into the game faster is a good thing.
Salpad Carebears with Attitude 345	Posted - 2013.07.03 23:54:00 - [79] - Quote Thumbs up to these changes. As someone who has played EVE for well over 6 years, name changes are always very confusing, and I'm still struggling with the module renamings you guys did a year or two ago, but I have the ability to step out of my own personal situation and view things objectively, and when wieved this way, it is an improvement. It will make EVE a better game, make it more friendly and accessible for new players, without dumbing it down.
Taya Greathame Snuff Box Urine Alliance 73	Posted - 2013.07.04 00:12:00 - [80] - Quote As someone else has said, fix things stop changing things. Rebalancing was annoying, giving tech one ships tech style roles. what fun can i have in a osprey now? Dumb the game down, hope to increase subscription figures and playerbase. gna start saving to buy my skillpoints. Ps, EA gonna ruin you.

Danhiil Xadi Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.07.04 00:14:00 - [81] - Quote I'll just throw my support behind keep Spaceship Command, It's much better. I'll also +1 the suggestion for Biology to change to Neural Biochemistry oh and Planetary management is fine as a category. Other than that I approve.
Thandra Thul Section 8. Fatal Ascension 1	Posted - 2013.07.04 00:15:00 - [82] - Quote My gripes are: 1) Spaceship Command should stay 2) Planetary Interaction skills are scattered all over the place. (very unhappy with this one) 3) Multiple Targeting is a bad name Other than those 3 I have no complaints.
Sofia Roseburn True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators 45	Posted - 2013.07.04 00:16:00 - [83] - Quote Don't fix what isn't broken. If only we had more people like Launette Vylier.
Just Lilly 99	Posted - 2013.07.04 00:20:00 - [84] - Quote The new skill structure, have the touch and logic of a 12 year old to them Should atleast be a little easier for new players to wrap their heads around. Maybe. Powered by Nvidia GTX 690
Grarr Dexx Snuff Box Urine Alliance 197	Posted - 2013.07.04 00:34:00 - [85] - Quote What the **** was wrong with Spaceship Command?
AnarchoCap Ahashion The Riot Formation Unclaimed. 4	Posted - 2013.07.04 00:41:00 - [86] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: Nanite Control: has been renamed "Neurotoxin Control" to make it clearer it's a booster related skill and not something tied with *overheading*(nanite repair paste comes to mind). SKILL GROUP CHANGES All the other skills groups (Corporation Management, Drones, Gunnery, Leadership, Navigation, Scoial, Trade) stay the same, except for skills that were moved out of them into one of the new groups mentioned above. *Implants > Skill Harviring:* sorted harwiring implants to match the groups above. The ones that are like so are incorrect. overheating Social Hardwiring
Maldiro Selkurk CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS strain SELKURK 10	Posted - 2013.07.04 00:47:00 - [87] - Quote ChromeStriker wrote: GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+ Keep Electronics and Engineering names the same... might just be nestalgia but never heard they were a problem... seems quite straightforward to me. Targeting - Target Acquisition Multitasking - Advanced Target Acquisition GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+ Changing electronics and engineering while not necessary the proposed renames are better. Target Acquistion doesnt necessarily bring additional targets to mind, it brings to mind improvement in lock time or lock distance and not the number of ships you can lock. same for your Adv. Target Acquisition idea.
Galphii Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE 159	Posted - 2013.07.04 00:51:00 - [88] - Quote Excellent. I'm sure veterans will be perturbed by these changes, but it's better for the game in the long term. My brother recently started playing and complained about the lack of a 'skill tree', so that newer players could get an idea of skill progression in the game. I pointed him at the certificates section, which sort of does that, but I think it'd be good to clean it up a bit X
Maldiro Selkurk CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS strain SELKURK 10	Posted - 2013.07.04 00:52:00 - [89] - Quote Bloodpetal wrote: Don't change this :: Spaceship Command - Keep it. We understand it. Unnecessary change. We are commanding a spaceship. Period, the end. Please seriously Consider This Targeting - Multiple Targeting sounds clunky. It needs another iteration. "Target Management" makes it sound like you can manage more targets, just as "CPU Management" lets you have more CPU. Multitasking - I agree, bad name. "Advanced Target Management". Keep the subsystems group. They're unique and are the only group you can lose skillpoints in. Mixing them with the riggings isn't a good idea. Other Thoughts Electronics - CPU Management - I agree with a comment above, that it seems like it's a very broad underlying skill. However, I think clarity is more important in this case than anything else. Nanite Control - I agree, has confused me many times when I'm looking for Nanite Repair skills. Have to disagree here, Multiple targeting gets right to the point in no uncertain terms, while the more vague 'management' could mean almost anything really. Same for Adv. target mgmt idea, too vague a title.
Danhiil Xadi Hedion University Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.07.04 00:52:00 - [90] - Quote Okay I've had a little time to think and here's what I've come up with: Firstly echoing what everyone else is saying "Spaceship Command" is way better don't you dare change it. (I also think it's more lore friendly as the larger ships have crews you need to command, you wouldn't be flying them yourself. Most people want to play Kirk not Sulu) Engineering/ Electronics -> CPU/Power-grid Management Okay in theory however the existing skill descriptions talk about your skill at operating the relevant system so I'd say that CPU/Powergrid Optimisation fits a bit better. Targeting / Multitasking -> Multiple targeting / Advanced multiple targeting Just no that sounds really dumb. I'd agree they need changing but I'd suggest Targeting systems operation / Advanced targeting systems operation Nanite control -> Neurotoxin Control Yes, Nanite control sounds like it should be to do with repair paste, Neurotoxin Control still doesn't make it obvious what it does though. I'm struggling to think of anything better the closest I can come up with is "Side effect Mitigation" but that's really clunky. I'm okay with the groups as a whole but I'd say keep PI as it's own group and rather than "Resource processing" use "Resource Harvesting" as processing isn't a logical place to find mining skills. Keep up the good work



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