Cool but "Spaceship Piloting" ? Spaceship Command sounds better

you forgot "Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing". It has nothing to do with ewar or even with the other interfacing skills, it adds drone control range.

Hello people,
Ship Modifications: has all the skills related to rigs that previously were in the GÇ£MechanicsGÇ¥ skill group. Also contains all the Tech3 subsystem skills that previously were in the "Subsystems" group.

Electronic System: is the old GÇ£electronicsGÇ¥ group. Now only contains offense EW related skills.

I think the Subsystems group should stay as they are unique in that you can easily lose a level in them.

This is a good point

I'm missing quite a number of skills (Cynosural field theory to name one)

Electronic System: is the old GÇ£electronicsGÇ¥ group. Now only contains offense EW related skills.

Contains the Cloaking, Electronic Warfare, Frequency Modulation, Long Distance Jamming, Projected Electronic Counter Measures, Propulsion Jamming, Sensor Linking, Signal Dispersion, Signal Suppression, Signature Focusing, Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration, Target Breaker Amplification, Target Painting, Turret Destabilization and Weapon Disruption skills.

i dont know about weapon upgrades and AWU in engineering...
while the latter might be placed rightly there, the former governs wether you can use dmg-mods or not, which is to me tightly connected to guns and the gunnery path.

Two Things:

1. I agree spaceship piloting sounds bad, stick with spaceship command!

2. Multiple Targeting does NOT flow. I don't like how it rolls off the tongue. Normally I try to come up with some sort of recommendation instead of just saying no... but all I can come up with is MTT Systems and AMTT Systems ( Multiple target tracking systems & advanced multiple target tracking systems ). But from the sounds of it you're trying to make things easier to understand and i don't think those help.

How about "Polly-Targeting" and "Advanced Polly-Targeting"?

Then we can use the nickname of "Parroting".

As in "As a Logi Pilot I have to do a lot of parroting to keep my squad alive..."

*facepalm*

I like both the Target Acquisition and Target Management suggestions...

But I have further suggestions to make it even more newbie-friendly:
"Navigation" is renamed to "Align-time reduction"

Cool but "Spaceship Piloting" ? Spaceship Command sounds better

Please do not combine the subsystems group with the rigs group. They are not the same thing and adding 20 skills to the already long rig skill list will be counterproductive.

Please do NOT separate the PI skills into different places. It's counterproductive.

The game should not encourage new players to train immediately a skill that will be useless to them.

When you redo the certificate can I suggest that you move all the shield compensation skills from Shield reinforcement basic to shield reinforcement elite.

These skills were gutted to apply solely to passive hardeners and there are no really decent passive hardeners until you get to faction modules. Its ok for armor compensation skills to be in a basic certificate requirement because there are decent passive options for the new player - the default energized adaptive nano membranes for example.

There are no fully passive shield fits that would be recommended to new, and not so new, player - these fits are normally highly specialised fits on tech II ships or supers and there location in the certificate plan should reflect this.

I'm with this guy.

"Spaceship Piloting" is a little too limp-wristed.

I'm with this guy.

"Spaceship Piloting" is a little too limp-wristed.

I'm with this guy.

"Spaceship Piloting" is a little too limp-wristed.

Nanite Control: has been renamed "Neurotoxin Control" to make it clearer it's a booster related skill and not something tied with overheading(nanite repair paste comes to mind).
SKILL GROUP CHANGES

All the other skills groups (Corporation Management, Drones, Gunnery, Leadership, Navigation, Scoial, Trade) stay the same, except for skills that were moved out of them into one of the new groups mentioned above.

Implants > Skill Harviring: sorted harwiring implants to match the groups above.

GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+

Keep Electronics and Engineering names the same... might just be nestalgia but never heard they were a problem... seems quite straightforward to me.

Targeting - Target Acquisition

Multitasking - Advanced Target Acquisition

GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+

Don't change this ::

Spaceship Command - Keep it. We understand it. Unnecessary change. We are commanding a spaceship. Period, the end.

---

Please seriously Consider This


Targeting - Multiple Targeting sounds clunky. It needs another iteration. "Target Management" makes it sound like you can manage more targets, just as "CPU Management" lets you have more CPU.

Multitasking - I agree, bad name. "Advanced Target Management".

Keep the subsystems group. They're unique and are the only group you can lose skillpoints in. Mixing them with the riggings isn't a good idea.

---

Other Thoughts

Electronics - CPU Management - I agree with a comment above, that it seems like it's a very broad underlying skill. However, I think clarity is more important in this case than anything else.

Nanite Control - I agree, has confused me many times when I'm looking for Nanite Repair skills.

Have to disagree here, Multiple targeting gets right to the point in no uncertain terms, while the more vague 'management' could mean almost anything really.

Same for Adv. target mgmt idea, too vague a title.

Engineering: now has all skills related with energy management and fittings in general.

Contains the Advanced Weapon Upgrades and Weapon Upgrades skills [snipped for space].

So so but needs more work.

Some commentary:

What is Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration doing in Electronic systems?
Why did Industrial Reconfiguration end up in resource processing?
Both of these skills really ought to be elsewhere. TLR probably belongs in Armor or Engineering (along with tactical weapons reconfiguration) and IR probably belongs in Production or Engineering.

As far as groups go, maybe armor and shield should be combined in 'Protection'.

I'm missing quite a number of skills (Cynosural field theory to name one)

Whoa never change a running system.
why .... tell me why we need new names for the skills??
This is EVE, a harsh place to live, and not Hello Kitty in Space, let the new Player learn the old Names.

Damm next time comes the win button for new Players, because they can-¦t fly a Titan in 5 Days.

NO Mainstream ****

I have a suggestion.

Leave it.

If it aint broke don't fix it

spaceship command, not piloting.

A few comments.

CCP should really make an effort to make EVE more beginner-friendly, no doubt.
Some skills like Multitasking and Nanite Control ought to be renamed, because the name is utterly misleading. But.

You are going way to far with this concept.

As many before me have already stated, many of the proposed name changes are uninspiring.
Space Ship Command should really be spaceship command. Really, what's the point?

Also: Every name change that you do also has a NEGATIVE impact on the playability. Simply because all ressources on the web will be outdated.
I have experienced that over and over again with previous renamings (e.g. Auto-Targeting Missiles).
Maybe a newbie didn't get what a F.O.F. missile was.
But a newbie with some minimum cleverness managed to throw that expression into Google and whoa - here we go.
But try to find something if the name has changed during the last two years...
I am really sad about what happened (not) to Evelopedia. I used that A LOT, that was one of my primary ressources when I was a noob. But now it's utterly useless, because each and every single ship and item has been rebalanced.
That should of course not imply that you stop rebalancing because of Evelopedia - God forbid!
But it shows the effect.
There should be only things renamed when it'S REALLY necessary.
And maybe it would also be noob-friendly to update Evelopedia.

That said, I for example always thought it was good that some skills (Electronics, Engineering, Social...) had the same name as their category. That way I would always know which one was the "basc" skill in the category which I needed to train first.
The one that has the most impact on what I was doing.
Compare Electronics (+5% CPU) to Target Breaker Amplification (+?% weird nonsense).
Anything that makes it more likely that new players put their energy into the important skills to let them get into the game faster is a good thing.

As someone else has said, fix things stop changing things.

Rebalancing was annoying, giving tech one ships tech style roles. what fun can i have in a osprey now?

Dumb the game down, hope to increase subscription figures and playerbase.

gna start saving to buy my skillpoints.

Ps, EA gonna ruin you.

Don't fix what isn't broken.

GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+

Keep Electronics and Engineering names the same... might just be nestalgia but never heard they were a problem... seems quite straightforward to me.

Targeting - Target Acquisition

Multitasking - Advanced Target Acquisition

GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+GÇ+

Electronic Systems sounds vague. I think I'd much rather see the group called Electronic Warfare and the existing Electronic Warfare skill become Sensor Jamming.

Lumping Weapon Upgrades in with PG Enhancements seems odd, considering it's a perception / willpower branch and everything else is Int / Mem.

how about renaming hull upgrades to armour integrity so it actually explains that it improves your armour HP
and same with mechanics becoming structural integrity.

maybe split hull upgrades into its own skill because of the other mods that use it still.

Also it begs the question why do Assault frigs need mechanics lv5 as a prereq? .. weapon upgrades lv4 perhaps instead

...things...

These changes are moronic and cater to people too illiterate and incapable to be playing this game to begin with. I do not approve of any of these changes and hope they are withdrawn.

This smells of the homogenization and nerfing that has sent every other MMO into the dirt. This game is what it is because it requires attention and some reading skills. I do not want to lose this to the crybaby masses.

this is eve online, where we fit Alumel Omni ECCM Sensor Array to our ships. a little less clarity in the name of a skill is a fair price to pay for not feeling like an idiot while talking about it. multiple targeting sounds like multiple sclerosis and has to go away.

Stomping your feet and crying 'I want 10 years ago", doesn't seem to separate you much from those crybaby masses you so seem to hate.

1. it takes a lot of money to properly develop a video game long term, CCP has failed at this and that is why this game feels so "10 years old", when other games have done a much better job of keeping up with the times because they have the financial resources to do it.

2. As CCP brings in outside management talent i can assure you it isn't because they felt like they were on the right path with their past development ideology and resultant cash flow problem and small player base (no, i dont have access to CCPs financial records but i do understand the concept of 'lost opportunity costs' and CCP has lost out on millions if not tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars they could have used to keep this now antiquated game current).

3. The only hope this game has for a better tomorrow doesn't lie in the hands of players or developers that would shun casual players so stomp your feet and huff and puff all you like but we casuals will win because there are more of us in the gaming world and we have a lot more money to offer CCP if it plays to our desires and in the final analysis investors don't care if you like the changes or not they care about their quarterly profits and that is precisely what we casuals will give them.

4. btw, this response is appropriate to about 10 other respondents that are wondering why CCP cannot seem to keep up with necessary changes to their game, its simple EVE has been mismanaged and until the management starts making some serious changes CCPs financial constraints will have this game falling farther and farther behind other games in terms of its development.

All the skill names are just so confusing. You should really dumb everything down such that there is no imagination or flavor involved anymore. New player confusion will be immediately fixed this way. Suggestions:

[SBVP]

Remember, the goal is to prevent any confusion or learning for new players. Gotta focus on that.

1. Spaceship Command +1
2. Target Acquisition / Advanced Target Acquisition +1
3. Subsystem skills independent category +1
4. Planetary Interaction skills independent category +1

My personal thoughts:
Thanks alot, I just started a video series using all these old names.

masterfully trolled. Or searingly ignorant. Either way, you go, girl.

Edit: Or possibly much too aware of the truth and not interested in trying to change the course of things.

I would leave Weapon Upgrades and AWU in Gunnery since their primary/secondary stats are more in line with that group. They would be the only ones in the new Engineering group that would be Perception/Willpower.

All the skill names are just so confusing. You should really dumb everything down such that there is no imagination or flavor involved anymore. New player confusion will be immediately fixed this way. Suggestions:

Frequency Modulation -> EW Falloff Improvement
Sensor Linking -> Sensor Module Capacitor Use
Signal Dispersion -> ECM Strength
Energy Pulse Weapons -> Smartbombs
Tactical Shield Manipulation -> Low Shield Armor Protection
AWU -> Weapon Powergrid Usage
Controlled Bursts -> Turret Capacitor usage
Gunnery -> Turret Damage
Sharpshooter -> Turret Optimal Range
Surgical Strike -> Advanced Turret Damage

I could keep going, but you get the idea. Dumb everything down to take the flavor out.

Also, I suggest changing all ship names to their ship class and a number, it's way too hard to remember all those ships. for example, Amarr Frigate I, II, III. Or you could do Amarr Light Cruiser, Amarr Heavy Cruiser, Amarr EW Cruiser. This would help a lot.

Remember, the goal is to prevent any confusion or learning for new players. Gotta focus on that.

1. Thanks for the edit, that was quite decent of you.

2. I don't post troll, if i post it i believe it to be true (although you are entitled to disagree as you see fit)

3. um....why am i a girl?

4. I am very keenly interested in changing the face of EVE, just not in the direction you apparently prefer.

It's true, I don't prefer it. I enjoyed WoW for awhile and then this happened to it and ruined the elitist aspects I personally find most enjoyable. It's only natural that I would react defensively.

I do see that you're interested in changing the face of the game. As I said I don't like it, but my opinion isn't likely to be relevant in the end. I'm keenly aware of it.

Also, you're a girl because it's a churlish and petty way of being offensive on the internet, obviously. Or in grade school. They're the same thing, anyway.

I'm with this guy.

"Spaceship Piloting" is a little too limp-wristed.

Gotta agree with Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris that Guided Missile Precision needs to get an updated name like the suggested Missile Detonation Precision, much clearer to understand

Guided Missile Precision -> Detonation Radius Control
Target Navigation Prediction ->Detonation Velocity Control

Missile Projection -> Missile Velocity Control
Missile Bombardment -> Missile Flight Time Control
Warhead Upgrades -> Detonation Damage Yield

Next time just type:

SBVP

(Standard Bitter Vet Post)

• Armor - Seems good, but how about renaming it "Armor and Hull Systems".
• Electronic System - How about renaming it "Electronic Systems" and leaving the "Electronics" skill alone. Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration seems out of place here; put all 3 reconfig skills into "Engineering Systems" see below.
• Engineering - How about renaming it "Engineering Systems" and leaving the Engineering skill alone.
• Missiles - How about renaming it "Missile Weapon Systems".
• Neural Enhancement - I like!
• Production - How about renaming it "Manufacturing". One produces movies, not spaceships.
• Resource Processing - How about renaming it "Material Processing"
• Ship Modification - I don't like subsystems being in this group.
• Scanning - How about renaming it "Exploration". I don't like the planet skills moving here; keep them on their own, or move them into manufacturing (see above).
• Science - How about renaming it "Research" or "Research and Technology".
• Shields - How about renaming it "Shield Systems"
• Spaceship Piloting - PLEASE OH PLEASE DON'T RENAME IT THIS!
• Targeting - How about renaming it "Targeting Systems".

I'd be tempted to rename "Gunnery" group to "Turret Weapon Systems".

Note the common usage of the word "Systems" throughout.

Spaceship Piloting: is the old Spaceship Command group, no change except with the name.

You could make the same arument that Weapon Upgrades should be in the Missiles group. You need Gravitics for Warp disruption field generators, should that be in Electronic Systems? And so on.

But their primary function is as fitting skills, so that's why the CSM agreed they should go into the "Engineering" group.

I'm with this guy.

"Spaceship Piloting" is a little too limp-wristed.

Cool but "Spaceship Piloting" ? Spaceship Command sounds better

RENAMING SKILLS

This is done in an effort to reduce confusion between the skill names themselves and the groups they belong to. Usually, a group name is to be as generic as possible since it usually contains more than just a single theme. On the contrary, Skill names need to be as specific as possible to let players know what effects they have without having to read their description.

• Electronics: has been renamed to GÇ£CPU managementGÇ¥ not to conflict with group names and be more explicit at what the skill actually does.


• Engineering: has been renamed GÇ£Power Grid managementGÇ¥ not to conflict with group names and be more explicit at what the skill actually does.


• Targeting: for the same reasons as above, this skill has been renamed "Multiple Targeting".


• Multitasking: has been renamed "Advanced Multiple Targeting" for the same reasons as above.


• Nanite Control: has been renamed "Neurotoxin Control" to make it clearer it's a booster related skill and not something tied with overheading (nanite repair paste comes to mind).

Those change should be fixed like this:

Electronics has been renamed to "Basic Electronics"
Engineering has been renamed to "Basic Engineering"
Targeting has been renamed to "Elementary Targeting"

What is the reason for this, Microsoft taking over CCP?

Some pretty bad Engrish in there.
Some suggestions for improvement:


"Multiple Targeting" sounds ridiculous, change to "Multi-Targeting" and "Advanced Multi-Targeting".
"Electronic System" group should be "Electronic Systems" or, even better, "Electronic Warfare [Systems]".
"Missiles" might be better as "Missile Systems" or just keep it as is.
"Shields" and "Armor" to "Shield Systems" and "Armor Systems".
"Spaceship Piloting" should just stay "Spaceship Command", there's just no way "Piloting" would sound good there.
"Targeting" to "Sensors & Targeting"

I know I will be probably ignored but I just cannot let this go past without me saying my mind about it.

The whole refurbishing of the skill groups sounds nice, but...


Let us have a look at what my problems with this reorganisation is:
Armours
Shields
Electronic Systems
Engineering
Ship Modifications
Targeting
Scanning
Are all related to ships and ship fitting one way or another.
Plus PI has already its own group, but now they will be a part of another skill group GÇôread: they just dump PI into another group while at the same time clearly stating that they want every one of those groups to have a ground of their own GÇô sounds either hypocrite or not really thought out for me, youGÇÖll be the judge on that! :P

So what SHOULD we do?
If you dig deep, really deep down there are three core elements of the skill sets:
1: Productions one way or another (production/invention/exploration, etc)
2: Ship commands one way or another (pvp/pve)
3: Character managements one way or another (implants, leadership, /corp/ally management, etc.)
So how can we benefit from this? - By enabling sub-categories to emerge!
It is really not a difficult thing but would enable to have a logical build-up of skills:

Spaceship Command ALL T1 ship command skills
Gö£ Advanced Spacehip Command (Tech 2 ship command skills)
Gö£ Armour Management (Armour skills)
Gö£ Drone Management (Drone skills)
Gö£ Electronic Systems Management (CPU skills)
Gö£ Electronic Warfare Management (EW / Anti-EW skills)
Gö£ Engineering Management (PG skills)
Gö£ Gunnery Management (Gunnery skills)
Gö£ Missiles Management (Missile skills)
Gö£ Navigation Management (Navigation skills)
Gö£ Shield Management (Shield skills)
Gö£ Ship Modifications (Rigs and T3 subsystems skills)

Pilot Enhancement (Clone skills)
Gö£ Corporation Management (Corporation stuff(NO POS!))
Gö£ Neural Enhancement (Implants and boosters)
Gö£ Leadership Enhancement (Leadership skills)
Gö£ Social Relations (Social skills)

Science (Generic Science skills)
Gö£ Production (Manufacturing skills)
Gö£ Research (Invention, hacking, salvaging)
Gö£ Planetary and Personal Production (PI and POS skills)
Gö£ Resource Processing (Reprocess)
Gö£ Resource Harvesting (Mining)
Gö£ Trade Management (Trade skills)

I try to clear the dust a little:

Ship Commands: Everything related to ships (read: skills that affect ship properties when trained), basic command and module enabling skills go into here (odd one out for example: bubbles as they require anchoring which will be in Science in this new order)

Pilot Enhancements: Everything related to having a better performing character and cross-character relations. Implants, boosters, corporations skills, social standing. (read everything that affects the CHARACTER and/or the player GÇô and the player relations)

Science: Here goes everything related to acquiring stuff. (read: building stuff, erecting stuff (POS, Station), mining stuff, looting stuff, trading stuff etc).

And if you change the market groups and move subystems together with rigs it will be a mess.

every third party dev dealing with skills just slit their wrists

Bad changes:
[list]

Spaceship Piloting: this sounds cheap and childish

Now what makes me worry is that the old skills were grouped in the matter of the Attributes u needed mapped to train them the fastest. So now the Skill Tree in your character and the training queue atleast need 2 columns with primary attrib and secondary attrib so that u can see directly (like the groups before) what effects the training time. (Also it may help to add that to the market too but i dont know how precisly).

-1 as long as the attrib problem isnt solved. if it is solved +1

Electronic System: is the old GÇ£electronicsGÇ¥ group. Now only contains offense EW related skills.

Spaceship Piloting

Weapon Upgrades in the Engineering group.

Its not like you're making plans without 3rd party tools, and those cant care less about skill groups in EvE.

Well I know one thing, I'll miss the old names.

There's nothing wrong with the old names; some of the suggestions that CCP makes are scary steps down the WoW street.

Seriously.

EvE is complex, it's not a game for your average gamer, please don't turn it into some empty shell of itself.

Next thing you know we'll be able to have a parrot in our captain's quarters...

-Frank

Cool but "Spaceship Piloting" ? Spaceship Command sounds better