And as luck would have it, THEY ARE FITTABLE ON CRUISERS. Battleships just have enough power to have more of them fitted.

Looking at the Zelot, a single 1600mm reinforced steel plate II add 2x the armor HP as the ship has to start with but somehow only would account for 23% of the total mass after put on the ship.
How does that make any sense?

Well at least you are taking that idea and running with it.

You know what armour for space craft really is? It's three or four layers of thin material with gaps between then, the first couple absorb the directed energy, and the last two protect the hull.

I used to test it for NASA.....so yeah twice the armour for a quarter of the mass does make sense.

.....and leave sense out of my eve, we DON'T want real physics around here.

You realize that the armor to stop space debris is not exaclty on the same league to resist to NUKES?

Looking at the Zelot, a single 1600mm reinforced steel plate II add 2x the armor HP as the ship has to start with but somehow only would account for 23% of the total mass after put on the ship.
How does that make any sense?

Yeah microasteriods moving 10km/s have no energy either. Like I said leave real physics out of it.

Sure needs 5km/s speed 15m sign radius hit with 425mm at 50 km (at least) and able to fit double xl-asb before implants ogb and combat boosters.

Minmatar are the fastest (except stupid Cynabal) do the best dps in fall off and selectable dmg, Vaga problem lies somewhere else: SFI and Stabber good enough to do the same job for cheaper, that's it.

I think that the bigger problem is the Cynabal, since most nano gangs are composed of Cynabals and fast tackle, plus boosts.

The Vaga will become viable when it is either A) 50% of the cost of a Cynabal or B) Better than the Cynabal.

Well at least you are taking that idea and running with it.

You know what armour for space craft really is? It's three or four layers of thin material with gaps between then, the first couple absorb the directed energy, and the last two protect the hull.

I used to test it for NASA.....so yeah twice the armour for a quarter of the mass does make sense.

.....and leave sense out of my eve, we DON'T want real physics around here.

Well at least you are taking that idea and running with it.

You know what armour for space craft really is? It's three or four layers of thin material with gaps between then, the first couple absorb the directed energy, and the last two protect the hull.

Most nano gangs are cynabals? Wait what?

Sure people use the cyna rather than the vaga atm.. But most proper nano gangs are just tier 3's because they are about six hundred times better (I did the math, don't question!)

Yea! If we had real physics we'd have to have bumping do damage!

I think that the bigger problem is the Cynabal, since most nano gangs are composed of Cynabals and fast tackle, plus boosts.

The Vaga will become viable when it is either A) 50% of the cost of a Cynabal or B) Better than the Cynabal.

the stubborness of people drives me crazy...
if they remain in the exact same role there will always be on better and one worse ship.
so ffs make them just a bit diffrent enough so they fill slightly diffrent roles.

Yeah microasteriods moving 10km/s have no energy either. Like I said leave real physics out of it.

Most nano gangs are cynabals? Wait what?

Sure people use the cyna rather than the vaga atm.. But most proper nano gangs are just tier 3's because they are about six hundred times better (I did the math, don't question!)

Have you tried making armor out of tritanium at nasa? Space materials!

Pure titanium, no. Titanium is actually really brittle, so it makes a poor shell, alloys absolutely.

The issue being that when you're dealing with hypervelocity impacts, they are no longer ballistic, everything turns into plasma from the heat and compression, so you are sitting against pressure waves really, not a ballistic mass/speed thing.

Thus bigger (thicker) may not be better, but it will always be heavier, and heavy is bad.

Note I'm not a physicist, I'm a computer engineer, I just did sensors for the most part......and that years ago.

I think that the bigger problem is the Cynabal, since most nano gangs are composed of Cynabals and fast tackle, plus boosts.

The Vaga will become viable when it is either A) 50% of the cost of a Cynabal or B) Better than the Cynabal.

Back on topic , CCP Rise , if find the changes pretty decent , it does not make them OP and they can still be strong with the right people flying them .The more i think about it the more i do not think they need more buffs, the role bonus is pretty strong imo. Just make sure to double check the CPU and powergrid, maybe add a bit to some especially since you dont want to gimp their fit if you fit a mwd , maybe even add a fitting bonus to mwd. GL

Back on topic , CCP Rise , if find the changes pretty decent , it does not make them OP and they can still be strong with the right people flying them .The more i think about it the more i do not think they need more buffs, the role bonus is pretty strong imo. Just make sure to double check the CPU and powergrid, maybe add a bit to some especially since you dont want to gimp their fit if you fit a mwd , maybe even add a fitting bonus to mwd. GL

The cap numbers for the Sac and Zealot seem reversed, and the Sac doesn't need the cap recharge bonus does it? That would be more useful to the Zealot, since it uses weapons that require cap. An explosion radius or explosion velocity bonus would be much better. The utility high is nice, but it's also underwhelming in terms of armour missile dps; it was already lagging behind the Cerberus, and the Cerberus gets a fairly significant dps buff with the extra launcher. An extra one or two percent per level for missile damage would go a long way toward equalizing missiles for shields vs armour.


Someone else mentioned the Sac as being intended for heavy tackle, which might explain lackluster dps. What -are- the intended roles for the HACs? Maybe that will help answer some of the questions about the rebalancing. You guys very nicely described differences for the T1 ships, such as Combat ships vs Attack ships, etc.

As terrible as most of Rise's changes are, they seem so much less terrible when compared to the stuff you guys are coming up with.

Pure titanium, no. Titanium is actually really brittle, so it makes a poor shell, alloys absolutely.

The issue being that when you're dealing with hypervelocity impacts, they are no longer ballistic, everything turns into plasma from the heat and compression, so you are sitting against pressure waves really, not a ballistic mass/speed thing.

Thus bigger (thicker) may not be better, but it will always be heavier, and heavy is bad.

Note I'm not a physicist, I'm a computer engineer, I just did sensors for the most part......and that years ago.

Yea because you're just full of great ideas for changes. What would those be again?