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Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12257
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 23:46:00 -
[421] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:this thing called social skills Not on my EVE Online General Discussion. Only trolling skillZ. Shh Goonie (GrrGäó) Trolling is social skills in your alliance 
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
119
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 00:01:00 -
[422] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Firstly Tippia is male.
Don't care. I base my pronouns on avatars unless asked to do otherwise.
Quote:Secondly we've yet to see evidence that you're familiar with the technical subjects that you post about, most of what you've posted in the past can be pulled from wikipedia or google with little or no effort.
Given that you can find the vast majority of human knowledge on google, I'm not really sure what you're expecting. Posting at anything deeper than a Wikipedia level always proves pointless, which isn't saying much - Wikipedia goes pretty deep. Similarly, I'm not trying to show you that I'm smart, I'm simply trying to get you to believe what I'm saying. When you dismiss things like Wikipedia and Yale course material, I'm not sure what else I can do.
Quote:Tippia at least provides evidence to back up his claims.
What? Where?
Quote:I have a specialist technical background myself, and I can talk to people about it without sounding being boastful or insulting. They might not actually understand what I'm talking about in detail, but I can get the basics across. It's this thing called social skills, you need to work on them.
I'm all ears if you have some pointers; it's not something I'm good at.
However, I might point out that while getting people to smile and nod is a very useful skill, it doesn't seem appropriate here. |

Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
143
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 00:45:00 -
[423] - Quote
S Byerley wrote: However, I might point out that while getting people to smile and nod is a very useful skill, it doesn't seem appropriate here.
But the smiles are the entire point of people like myself visiting the forums, while performing otherwise boring tasks in game |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4210
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 04:49:00 -
[424] - Quote
The ice is melting. In space. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |

Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12275
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 05:33:00 -
[425] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:It's this thing called social skills, you need to work on them. I'm all ears if you have some pointers; it's not something I'm good at. However, I might point out that while getting people to smile and nod is a very useful skill, it doesn't seem appropriate here. Step one, try not to bamboozle people, throw out all the big fancy words and replace them with plain simple ones. A explanation that people can understand without having to refer to a dictionary will go a long way.
For example, my specialty is automotive telematics and control systems, most people will blink at telematics and turn off at control systems, especially when I start spouting acronyms and terms like CANBUS, MOST, LIN and FlexRay.
If however I said I work with the computers that control modern cars and GPS navigation /Tracking systems, people know what I'm talking about.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |

Spectatoress
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 05:55:00 -
[426] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Just confirming that this is a 20 page thread about how insignificant and unworthy of attention Goons are.
confirmation from someone with the attention span of a 6-year old isnt of much value .... the thread consist to 30% of the usual braindead oneliner of zergswarm goonies like you and 60% are ************ of some forum-heros about definitions no one cares about with an iq above room temparature .... but hey, thats foreign territory to you as you have just proved with your "confirmation" and your "friends" following suit almost immediately babbling about "tears" that are nowhere to be seen.  |

William Walker
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
262
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 06:02:00 -
[427] - Quote
Spectatoress wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:Just confirming that this is a 20 page thread about how insignificant and unworthy of attention Goons are. confirmation from someone with the attention span of a 6-year old isnt of much value .... the thread consist to 30% of the usual braindead oneliner of zergswarm goonies like you and 60% are ************ of some forum-heros about definitions no one cares about with an iq above room temparature .... but hey, thats foreign territory to you as you have just proved with your "confirmation" and your "friends" following suit almost immediately babbling about "tears" that are nowhere to be seen. 
As a CFC pet I am required by my honour and binding word to my liege to say: deal with it. pâ+(*GîÆGêçGîÆ*)n+ë pü+(pé£GêçpÇü-¦)pü+ (GùòGÇ+GùòG£+) |

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1317
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 06:06:00 -
[428] - Quote
When did they start measuring IQ in degrees Celcius? |

Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12278
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 06:40:00 -
[429] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:When did they start measuring IQ in degrees Celcius? When Spectatoress started posting, although given the content of that post, I'd say room temperature is sitting at about absolute zero (measured in degrees C)
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4005
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 06:44:00 -
[430] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:So there is no risk in ganking. Just expenditure. There is the risk that some or all of the shots could miss.
That is chance or probability, and what you are describing is the probability of failure. The risk in the endeavour is the cost of trying (ie: the catalyst, fittings, a few rounds of ammo) x the probability of failure (the chance that you don't do the expected damage to the target ).
The for the for-profit gankers, there is the chance that the loot doesn't drop, the chance someone else scoops the loot first, then the usual risks of the hauler getting blown up while carrying the loot to market.
The poor things.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |

Spectatoress
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 07:26:00 -
[431] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:When did they start measuring IQ in degrees Celcius? When Spectatoress started posting, although given the content of its post, I'd say room temperature is sitting at about absolute zero (measured in -¦C)
Funny post of Mr. "automotive telematics and control systems" aka "Look at me mummy blabla". Wouldnt be surprised if alt of Tippia. Please continue. But beware of your signature.  |

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1317
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 07:38:00 -
[432] - Quote
i think that's a compliment, jonah |

Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12283
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 07:54:00 -
[433] - Quote
Spectatoress wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:When did they start measuring IQ in degrees Celcius? When Spectatoress started posting, although given the content of its post, I'd say room temperature is sitting at about absolute zero (measured in -¦C) Funny post of Mr. "automotive telematics and control systems" aka "Look at me mummy blabla". Wouldnt be surprised if alt of Tippia. Please continue. But beware of your signature.  When you understand my signature please get back to me, until then kindly crawl back under your bridge, I believe there's some goats on their way.
Benny Ohu wrote:i think that's a compliment, jonah I'll take it as such, even if it is coming from an obvious shiptoasting alt.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
119
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 08:00:00 -
[434] - Quote
Spectatoress wrote:Funny post of Mr. "automotive telematics and control systems" aka "Look at me mummy blabla". Wouldnt be surprised if alt of Tippia. Please continue. But beware of your signature. 
I assumed that bit was there for rhetorical contrast given the context? |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16196
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 09:30:00 -
[435] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:But I didn't contradict myself? Yes you did. Go back and read it in sequence.
First you said I couldn't multiply the two probabilities together because there was a dependency. Then you showed a formula where you multiply two probabilities together. Then you claimed you could do this because they were not dependent. Then you noted that the probabilities were the ones you initially couldn't multiply together because there was a dependency..
Quote:So far she's been wrong in every objective fight she's committed to; including but not limited to:
past forum events, the formal definition of risk, and compound probability of dependent events Presumably you mean the past event where you contradicted yourself in the manner illustrated above? The formal definition of risk I've used has been correct all along (it's probability times cost, by the way, where probability can be anywhere from 0 to 1, and cost can be both positive and negative), and the compound probability of dependent events was also correct all along but you managed to confuse yourself over whether they were dependent or not. So if you want to prove me "wrong in every objective fight" you've already lost because you chose to pick the qualifier "every" and then gave examples where I was correct... unless you're somehow implying that "including" does not refer to the objective fights you're talking about.
No, I'll tell you what. How about you prove that you have any clue what you're talking about by backing up your claim and showing how you would write the two in order to control for the dependence of p(stolen)?
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:For example, my specialty is automotive telematics and control systems, most people will blink at telematics and switch off at control systems, especially if I start spouting acronyms and terms such as CANBUS, MOST, LIN or FlexRay. Funnily enough, I know what three of those acronyms mean.  GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
119
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 10:11:00 -
[436] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Then you noted that the probabilities were the ones you initially couldn't multiply together because there was a dependency..
I'm sorry that the notation confused you, but P(B|A) is not the same thing as P(B).
Quote:The formal definition of risk I've used has been correct all along (it's probability times cost, by the way, where probability can be anywhere from 0 to 1, and cost can be both positive and negative),
Your preferred source, ISO 31000, clearly disagrees - as noted by several others.
Quote:and the compound probability of dependent events was also correct all along but you managed to confuse yourself over whether they were dependent or not.
No, events A and B are independent if and only if P(B) = P(B|A)
P(not stolen) is clearly not the same as P(not stolen | dropped) because the items can't be stolen if they don't drop, ie P(not stolen | not dropped) = 1.
Quote:So if you want to prove me "wrong in every objective fight" you've already lost because you chose to pick the qualifier "every" and then gave examples where I was correct... unless you're somehow implying that "including" does not refer to the objective fights you're talking about.
Fortunately, I never said anything about making you admit it.
Quote:No, I'll tell you what. How about you prove that you have any clue what you're talking about by backing up your claim and showing how you would write the two in order to control for the dependence of p(stolen)?
I don't have to, I already proved you were wrong. Why should I, the person who pointed out your mistake, have to prove my knowledge to you, the person who made the mistake? The reverse seems more appropriate.
|

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
38866
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 10:21:00 -
[437] - Quote
 
Attempting to apply logic formulas to EVE is about on par with dancing about architecture. |

Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
476
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 10:51:00 -
[438] - Quote
Can't you guys go find another thread to argue about the risks involved in ganking? Nobody here cares, and you're ruining a perfectly good CFC hate/miner tears thread.
I get that one or both of you have just finished school and want to use all your magic knowledge before you get a job and realise it all means **** all at the end of the day, but go do it in your own thread. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16196
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 10:55:00 -
[439] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:I'm sorry that the notation confused you, but P(B|A) is not the same thing as P(B). ...and I'm sorry that you ever thought it was a P(B). Was it the implicit nature of something that can't happen without the other thing happening first that tripped you up?
Quote:Your preferred source, ISO 31000, clearly disagrees - as noted by several others. Not really, no. They use the same multiplication of probability and cost (which they rename to "outcome" as to not use a loaded term).
Quote:Fortunately, I never said anything about making you admit it. Nor did I ever claim that you did, but considering how often you asked me to admit to thing, maybe I should...
Sure you do, since you're the one making the claim and since every time you've refused to do it, the suspicion has grown that you have no idea what on earth you're talking about. Dodging questions proves nothing except that you're unwilling to answer, which raises all kinds of questions about your motivation for not answering something you claim to know and understand well. It tends to imply inability rather than mere unwillingness, for instance. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
119
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 11:17:00 -
[440] - Quote
Tippia wrote:...and I'm sorry that you ever thought it was a P(B). Was it the implicit nature of something that can't happen without the other thing happening first that tripped you up?
You separated the variables, indicating that you were not making such an assumption. I even covered my bases both by saying the combined variable was correct and asking if you meant something else.
Is that the best you have? "You should have assumed what I meant, not what I wrote." That **** doesn't fly with equations, sorry.
Quote:Not really, no. They use the same multiplication of probability and cost (which they rename to "outcome" as to not use a loaded term). They do not arbitrarily remove possible valid values for probabilities.
They qualify that the event must be uncertain => P < 1, very clearly and repeatedly.
Quote:Dodging questions proves nothing except that you're unwilling to answer
Yes. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16197
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 11:31:00 -
[441] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:You separated the variables, indicating that you were not making such an assumption. I separated the variables for the same reason you write it as P(A)P(B|A), and you even got the mentioned that assumption yourself, but then failed to actually include it in your thinking.
That's why I was so confused by your first claiming that they couldn't be multiplied together and then demonstrating that that's how you do it (and why), which is why I'd like to you actually demonstrate some personal ability in the matter.
So how would you write the two in order to control for the dependence of p(stolen)?
Quote:They qualify that the event must be uncertain [citation needed]
Quote:Quote:Dodging questions proves nothing except that you're unwilling to answer, which raises all kinds of questions about your motivation for not answering something you claim to know and understand well. It tends to imply inability rather than mere unwillingness, for instance. Yes. So which one is it? Unwillingness or inability? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
119
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 11:52:00 -
[442] - Quote
Tippia wrote:S Byerley wrote:You separated the variables, indicating that you were not making such an assumption. I separated the variables for the same reason you write it as P(A)P(B|A), and you even got the mentioned that assumption yourself, but then failed to actually include it in your thinking.
I'm not much of a griefer, but I have to admit it's fun watching you backpeddle after spending so many posts trying and failing to set up a gotcha.
Tippia wrote:[citation needed]
Citation already given.
S Byerley wrote:Tippia wrote:Dodging questions proves nothing except that you're unwilling to answer
Yes.
FTFY, please don't misquote me. |

baltec1
Bat Country
7642
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 12:18:00 -
[443] - Quote
If suicide ganking is riskless that would mean it is impossible to fail. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16197
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 12:22:00 -
[444] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:I'm not much of a griefer, but I have to admit it's fun watching you backpeddle after spending so many posts trying and failing to set up a gotcha. ...if by back-pedaling you mean driving the point forward until you finally manage to spit out a proper answer, and if by setting up a gotcha you mean making you realise where you went off the tracks. I'm sorry if you feel like you're being hounded, but if you tried being a bit more forthcoming, these methods of extracting answers would not be necessary and the feeling would probably go away.
Quote:Citation already given. No. You've provided a quote that defines risk; not one that defines uncertainty or puts any obligation on it being P<1, and in fact no citation whatsoever of the numerical methods involved. So [citation still needed]
Quote:Quote:Dodging questions proves nothing except that you're unwilling to answer, which raises all kinds of questions about your motivation for not answering something you claim to know and understand well. It tends to imply inability rather than mere unwillingness, for instance. Yes. So which one is it? Unwillingness or inability?
If you're going to QQ about people changing your quotes, start by not doing it yourself. Then answer the question. I have come to realise that answering question makes you break out in hives and causes severe nausea in you, but that's a price I'm willing to pay. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
395
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 12:23:00 -
[445] - Quote
Watching Tippia and S Byerley argue is like watching two octopi have sex.
You sure as hell can't figure out what's going on, but you know someone is getting screwed. Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
|

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1317
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 12:45:00 -
[446] - Quote
methods of extracting answers |

Paul Chung
Spectres Syndicate
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 12:53:00 -
[447] - Quote
Oh look, a thread that's 23 pages. Guess I check out the last page and see what's going on. Oh look, it's Tippia engaging in yet another pointless, off topic argument. Maybe if she makes the argument convoluted enough, the other guy will run out of patience and she can declare victory. We all know how she [i][loves/i] to declare victory. |

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
38906
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 12:56:00 -
[448] - Quote
Paul Chung wrote:Oh look, a thread that's 23 pages. Guess I check out the last page and see what's going on. Oh look, it's Tippia engaging in yet another pointless, off topic argument. Maybe if she makes the argument convoluted enough, the other guy will run out of patience and she can declare victory. We all know how she loves to declare victory.
edit: fixed mah italics
Well, they can't ever be accused of being hollow victories  |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
742
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 13:05:00 -
[449] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:If suicide ganking is riskless that would mean it is impossible to fail.
This. Being smart about how you gank can help mitigate the risk and the loss involved, but it is not riskless. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
120
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 13:56:00 -
[450] - Quote
Tippia wrote:...if by back-pedaling you mean driving the point forward until you finally manage to spit out a proper answer
By backpeddling I mean trying to go back and change the explicit assumptions under which we were working. You buried them like you always do, and no one cares enough to look, but you know and I know. It can be our little secret.
If you were trying to teach me to interpret my probabilities ambiguously, I'm glad I didn't indulge your socratic line of inquiry. Also, the socratic method isn't appropriate here.
Quote:No. You've provided a quote that defines risk; not one that defines uncertainty or puts any obligation on it being P<1, and in fact no citation whatsoever of the numerical methods involved. So [citation still needed]
Nope, that's there too; look harder. (hint: it's the second sentence)
S Byerley wrote:Quote:Dodging questions proves nothing except that you're unwilling to answer Yes.
FTFY, please don't misquote me
Quote:If you're going to QQ about people changing your quotes, start by not doing it yourself.
If I misquoted you I apologize; please direct me to the offending post so I can rectify it. However, please be aware that quoting only a portion of your post doesn't constitute a misquotation. |
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