You heard it here first folks! It's risk-free to rat in an officer fit carrier, because you have a 100% chance to kill the rats.



[Ibis, Welp]
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'Cetus' ECM Shockwave I
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If 4 gankers can bring an extra 11(!) pilots and 150 million isk of hardware where 8 mil would do the job, I don't see why a 30+ man mining operation can't spend 450 thousand isk to put three alts in these. I'm sure at least a few of them have pew pew accounts with market/cyno/hauler alts to fit the bill. At the immense extra cost of 1 mil each, they can even fit a cloak and prop mod.


/facedesk

No. Concord will not blow you up resulting in a 1 or a 0.

Concord will turn your Catalyst into a Catalyst wreck containing anywhere from nothing, to half the value of a meta cat, up to 90% of a t2 cat if everything drops. You RISK the whole ship, but you will only LOSE ~75% of it if meta and ~55% if T2 fit on average. If the gank is executed properly, the loot fairy doesn't give you the middle finger, looter gets it all, gets out, and you get your pod out.

A 70 mil SP pilot is not risking a 2 mil meta cat in a gank. He's risking the ~500k expected loot drop from his own wreck and the 9 mil ISK it will cost him to upgrade the clone should he get podded.

Furthermore, you risk that should the 9 mil in mods actually drop from the cat it might be looted by the victim's friends. The T2 cat might drop better loot than the barge itself.

Even if you're a social reject with no alt account you can go to a quiet system. Bring the gank character in, log off. Bring the scanner, find a lone target in a belt, log off. Gank it, initiate pod warp to safe, close client, log scanner in, loot. You should be done and out before he can dock and reship to loot himself. Your pod may or may not get probed out and popped before you get it to safety. But the chance of you losing everything on your gank ship when you F1 is far from 100%.

P never really equals 1. It probably drifts around the 0.75 mark. With some hilarious welps that can turn an expected 5-6mil T2 cat loss into a couple guys needing to update clones and the "victim" coming out 20+ mil ahead in bonus loot. Bonus points if they had 5% small hybrid implants.


Every time you undock, you consent to people violencing your boat. This applies to the gankers every bit as much as it does to the miners. I've seen people sit on gate/station/probed safe in an interceptor with multiple points, catching outlaw cats before they even get so far as the warp-to-miner part. Faction police do the rest. Bonus tears if the rest of the cats still engage and welp on a barge with insufficient dps.

How exactly is a 50% drop chance, the chance of the target having better than expected defences, the target getting unexpected help and going suspect while looting the wreck (and thus, open to attack from everyone) not classed as risks?

So you are saying that everytime I suicide gank someone I know for a fact that I will not profit from it? Think about what you're saying there.

Of course you risk getting a profit! That has not been in question. Suicide ganking as an act, has 0 risk if you decide to blow up your ship. Death by cop is still the same as blowing off your own head with a shotgun.

If you buy a 5mil ship with the intention of getting it blown up by Concord for an unsolicited act of aggression, you are not considered as "risking" that ship. It is serving it's purpose.

You might be risking a profit in doing so, but that isn't in question.

[

Intent only determines the sign on your outcome: if the outcome is aligned with your intent, you generally put a plus sign in front of it; if the outcome is counter to your intent, you put a minus sign in front of it. If your intent is to calculate projected losses, then costs are positive and gains are negative.

It doesn't matter if it's a constant. A risk is a risk is a risk, and costs with p=1 are also risks because they are still a cost-probability duplet.

I buy all my ships with the intention of blowing them off.

Thank to you I realise I never take any risks :(

Well, if they just accepted the reality of what risks are (i.e. cost +ù probablity, where c can be both positive and negative and p can be anything from 0 to 1), they wouldn't have to be wrong so much in spite of having this simple fact explained to them over and over again.

Why should they get over that fantasy, when it has no connection to reality? After all, there are plenty of risks involved: the loss of the ship(s) being one; the destruction of the target being another; and getting the loot being a third. If you really want to go with the argument that they're just costs, then guess what? There is no risk for the gank victim either, because his loss is also just a cost. That leads us nowhere. Accepting the simple fact that ganks are risky means we can actually start to legitimately debate whether that risk is where it should be or not GÇö denying it only leaves you at an impasse with no proof for your case and no argument to change anything.

That's because you're not paying attention.

By that logic, there are no risks anywhere, ever. You don't risk getting blown up when you're getting ganked because dying to gankers is a result, not a risk. It's all a cost of doing business. See how that works?

GǪand the risk involved in doing that action is still a risk. You're confusing the projected and the actual outcome.

That's why it takes 4 hours ! Cool. Because EVE is harsh and cold, the tears collect and freeze. Interesting.

This means that people in Caldari ice space cry tears with a lot of nitrogen.

Try not to bamboozle people, throw out all the big fancy words and replace them with plain simple ones. A explanation that people can understand without having to refer to a dictionary will go a long way.

For example, my specialty is automotive telematics and control systems, most people will blink at telematics and switch off at control systems, especially if I start spouting acronyms and terms such as CANBUS, MOST, LIN or FlexRay.

If however I said I work with the computers that control modern cars, their security systems, and GPS navigation /tracking systems, people know what I'm talking about.

suicide ganking has its risks and the only way to mitigate those risks is to increase the cost of the gank

fly away

I have a feeling you're the one confusing the facts to suit your theories. The only thing you risk, is what you take a chance on. That's the definition of risk. You're trying to equate risk to losing something in regards to the fact the act is meant to consume the expenditure.

If you know there's a 100% of loss, there is no chance, the +/- is known and absolute and treated as a cost. Not a risk.

Again, suicide ganks are considered losses, not risks, until there is a chance you won't lose your ship, then you risk your ship in the hopes you will NOT lose it.

Which would mean you are not paying attention.

You mean:

suicide ganking has its costs and the only way to mitigate those costs is to increase the cost of the gank

wait what, but this makes no sense, I thought there were only costs, how can gankers get anywhere if they are always increasing the cost

Sure you do, since you're the one making the claim and since every time you've refused to do it, the suspicion has grown that you have no idea what on earth you're talking about. Dodging questions proves nothing except that you're unwilling to answer, which raises all kinds of questions about your motivation for not answering something you claim to know and understand well. It tends to imply inability rather than mere unwillingness, for instance.

If suicide ganking is riskless that would mean it is impossible to fail.

Thats the GOVT way of reducing cost.

So gankers are like big government

So gankers are like big government

Grr, proftable ganking, must nerf.

I buy all my ships with the intention of blowing them off.

Thank to you I realise I never take any risks :(

Huh I guess I never risk anything either. Now if I was a -highsec ice miner- expecting to be safe, then I'd be taking risks.

This is true. But before you use a very base and simple statement, define the words.

The gank being impossible to fail, or the suicide?

You can fail a gank easily enough. It's quite hard at failing to die when you attempt one though. By mechanics, it SHOULD be impossible, as a traditional suicide gank.

Only guarantee is the loss of your ship. Which is why it's a cost.

You mean:

suicide ganking has its costs and the only way to mitigate those costs is to increase the cost of the gank

wait what, but this makes no sense, I thought there were only costs, how can gankers get anywhere if they are always increasing the cost

This is true. But before you use a very base and simple statement, define the words.

You can profit from ganking too. Losing your ship might be totally overwritten by whatever you got out of the gank. If your ship going boom accomplish your goal, then you win even if the ship is an asset loss. If you fail your gank, the asset loss is a net loss. The risk in ganking is getting or not what you want out of the gank. Since this is not garanteed, then there is a risk involved or all gank would always be succesfull.

You have to see the grand scheme, not just your own ship. The greater goal is important. Much more than the asset you use to accomplish it. The risk of failure is always there unless your goal was only to lose your ship.

All gank are basicly a dice roll. You can load the dice in your favor but never enough to predict with 100% certainity what the final outcome will be. You take the risk by betting your ship to potentially win whatever you are looking for in a gank. Sometime you win, some time you lose. You can't get your bet back tho, only different kind of currency including but not limited to tears/ loot/salvage.

Except the suicide is not the key part of the action wich is why you ahve to evaluate the other part of the action, the gank part. The gank part is risky becasue the complete outcome is not set. There are plenty of way to gank without loosing your ship but each of them can also fail just like the suicide ones. The suicide part of a gank in high sec with no war dec or kill right is just an added rules being applied. You still face all the standard risk of ganks.