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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
Mc Cormeg
Friends Of Harassment
2
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:07:00 -
[571] - Quote
Why dont just leave them bascally as they are but give them some more sensor strength, the proposed bonus changes (so the Kronos gains some more short range capabillity, the other marauders are fine in short range) and as a new feature:
- a strong heatdmg bonus depending on your marauder skill-
So they gain a buff in dmg, in tank, in electronic systems and if you make salvager heatable, they even get the desired salvage buff.
And it is for the player to choose which aspect of is ship he wanna buff by choosing which modules he overheat. At the same time you gain alot more PVP potential.
That would do a lot more to the actual marauder gameplay (which is fine as it is) than this crazy experimental transformer mode and mjd bonus which combine a lot of gamestyles into one single ship without being able to provide realy strong synergy effects between the different proposed mechanics. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
56
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:09:00 -
[572] - Quote
Lore Varan wrote:Antoine Jordan wrote:
- Extends all large turret falloff and tracking by 25%
- Increases all large missile max velocity by 25%
This is weird. Falloff helps certain gun classes more than others. Missiles don't get a damage to application at all, just projection. If you have application/projection targets you're trying to hit, I think you'd be better off evening out the Bastion module effects in case of future use, and tweaking the specific Marauder stats to hit the goals. This Guns should get optimal and falloff. or Missiles should get velocity and explosion velocity Also The bastions weapons timer. Does that start and then count down on activation or does the count down only start once the bastion deactivates. Just curious If Tanking out agression timers ( Bastion and deagress ) is an intended design feature ?
Check the OP and the Dev responses first next time. Tracking was put on there by mistake and has been removed from the OP. There's a comment in this thread from CCP Rise on the issue.
Jessica Danikov wrote:Bastion module... interesting idea, but why Mauraders? I think the MJD aspect fits them well, but the Bastion module feels tacked on- especially if you going to be reworking the hulls so they can transform.
Sounds like a new ship line to me. T2 Rokhs/Maelstroms/Abaddons/Hyperions would far more suit the Bastion idea (can picture them transforming far easier) and you can really focus on what makes Bastion-enabled ships exciting, fun to use and balanced without being polluted with the preconceptions and baggage from Mauraders.
It also rounds out the Battleship T2 tier.
Does still mean you have to rebalance Mauraders without the Bastion module, but who said this would be easy? ;)
This still leaves Marauders in a crap spot being basically everything the new T2 ships are not supposed to be. They have a solution here as things stand and it seems to be fairly popular so why shove them back to the drawing board just because you don't like that a ship-class has "baggage".
It's not like this is their first prototype iteration, this is what they came up with after crossing off lots of high-concept and probably even fairly fleshed out ideas. It's then been refined to the point that they were ready to show it to us as a first-pass, and your argument is... that you don't like the ship model? Take it up with the art department. |
Paul Clancy
Korpu no Byakko
39
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:11:00 -
[573] - Quote
Please make Bastion mode so it also reflect Energy Neutralizers/Vampires, mean out of 100 theoretically neuted capacitor, 50 will be neuted from Marauder and 50 from one who neutralizes (same as Capacitor Battery).
Otherwise it'll be too susceptible to capacitor warfare (if you do not mean Neutralizer immunity too). |
Lore Varan
Caltech Shipyards
5
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:13:00 -
[574] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: Check the OP and the Dev responses first next time. Tracking was put on there by mistake and has been removed from the OP. There's a comment in this thread from CCP Rise on the issue.
Real men post first and ask questions later |
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
92
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:18:00 -
[575] - Quote
Cheng Chai wrote:The amount a vargur can tank atm is already crazy. Now give it 30% resist across the board and double the shield repair amount....
That thing will be absolutly crazy. Looking forward to doing c6 sites solo in a ASB Vargur. (ASBs will also be buffed with odyssey 1.1 fyi) Have fun trying to active tank without cap Sleeper neuts hurt |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse
673
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:23:00 -
[576] - Quote
Hey, got a funny idea.
100% Heat Dissipation when in Bastion mode. How about that ? That's a refreshing bonus that has never seen before. You could reduce some tanking bonuses if you think it would make it "too much".
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Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
139
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:23:00 -
[577] - Quote
Aquila Sagitta wrote:Cheng Chai wrote:The amount a vargur can tank atm is already crazy. Now give it 30% resist across the board and double the shield repair amount....
That thing will be absolutly crazy. Looking forward to doing c6 sites solo in a ASB Vargur. (ASBs will also be buffed with odyssey 1.1 fyi) Have fun trying to active tank without cap Sleeper neuts hurt
Notice the 'ASB' there? |
Jam Kirk
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:23:00 -
[578] - Quote
Moroccan Tourist wrote:Who give a **** about carebears and their L4s , although incursion might become popular again . And I'm theocrafting a shield Paladin I'm sure carebears care |
Infiltrator2112
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
5
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:26:00 -
[579] - Quote
QT McWhiskers wrote:Also the skill should just be tactical weapon reconfiguration. (That way dread pilots will have a reason to level their siege skill to 5.)
Because T2-Siege is definately not a reason.
U wot mate? |
Vendrin
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
8
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:33:00 -
[580] - Quote
Seems like a one trick pony. I like the concept, but tankiness doesn't do much for a ship with 0 mobility, as it will just be instablapped by dreads than.
You want to make marauders interesting, give them an anti capital role when they go bastion. |
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Klingon Admiral
Black Hole Cluster
72
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:40:00 -
[581] - Quote
RIP Paladin, one more nail in PvE-Armortanking's coffin |
Ersahi Kir
The Eminence Front SpaceMonkey's Alliance
336
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:42:00 -
[582] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:This still leaves Marauders in a crap spot being basically everything the new T2 ships are not supposed to be. They have a solution here as things stand and it seems to be fairly popular so why shove them back to the drawing board just because you don't like that a ship-class has "baggage".
It's not like this is their first prototype iteration, this is what they came up with after crossing off lots of high-concept and probably even fairly fleshed out ideas. It's then been refined to the point that they were ready to show it to us as a first-pass, and your argument is... that you don't like the ship model? Take it up with the art department.
The problem is that they're trying to shove marauders into a niche that doesn't exist so they can stand by their crappy "tech 2 are specialized and worse than pirate ships" picture.
I wish they had never made that picture because it has caused more harm than good. "Specialization" makes sense when you're talking about EWAR, interdiction, and cloaky ships, but what the hell is the difference between a "specialized" brawler/kiter ship and a more generic brawler kiter ship? Did CCP somehow forget that blood raiders ships are highly specialized in cap warfare when making the more general comment?
And while I'm ranting about that stupid ass picture what about the entire tech 3 confusion. Tech 3 ships are highly specialized to train for, they take more effort to collect materials for, they require specific and highly specialized industry skills to research and build, and on top of that they're expensive to construct and they're the only ship type that you lose skill points for getting blown up in and yet they're going to make them "more general." WTF does that even mean to be "more general.".
If you've looked at the tiericide re-balance you can see how their little picture hasn't cleared anything up. There are specialized T1/faction/T2 ships, and there are general T1/faction/T2 ships. Every time they've attempted to apply the specialized role to a T2 brawler ships they've failed horribly.
So please, stop referencing that god damn picture. It's a waste of server space when used as a reference of how ships should be balanced. |
Danica Fox
money talks dirty
1
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:49:00 -
[583] - Quote
U should think about it if u want it a pve or pvp ship and bring the Bonuses in one Line.
For PVE boost the Tractor Range to the Jump Range ak 120km and give it a salvage or salvage drone Bonus
For PVP Remove Tractor Bonus and give it Optimal and not Falloff (Missiles get a Optimal since their Nature)
Vargurs doing in the actual state around 500 dps once they go over around 30km Range so even with absurd Falloff Bonus i would have to fit Artys to use it with Bastion ...
And Really Blasters with 60km Falloff ??? also no(read under half) Dps at around 30 km even with that bonuses
most extreme examples CNR - correctly Rigged fittet 1k DPs from point blank to 250km (cruise and above) Vindicator 1,8k dps to 25km
Marauders (2 skill more ! marauders and the new x8 (read 8 times longer) skill ) not even near these numbers and dont forget BS to 5
why should i take that long training detour for those Bonuses its not viable
u will Kill a complete Class in PVE( exept golem maybe) (For everyone who understands APPLIED not Paper DPS)
In PVP these might have a use for the AT and maybe in wh but fleet scale its rather uninteresting because
without logistics they die (yeah could u use the other bonuses)
In conlusion change the Bonuses that it is 1 SHIP not 4 Half SHIPS
Make it a PVE Boat (salvage/tractor bonuses) OOOORRR A Mini Dread forget about tractors and give it a damage!! Bonus so they might actually used at Pos shoots or something..
I knew u wouldnt Fix the Class u destroy it stomp on it and try to make a new one
and again wtf falloff no damage bonus 100km jumpng around (where the lock range come to my mind will it be boostet?) to do no damage @all until the enemys get back close ?!?!?!
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Evanga
Way So Mad Axiomatic Dominion
83
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:51:00 -
[584] - Quote
Do black ops now plz! |
To mare
Advanced Technology
230
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:52:00 -
[585] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote: BASTION TRANSFORMERTHINGIEGäó SKILL(name not final)
please keep that name for the skill |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
244
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:53:00 -
[586] - Quote
Cheng Chai wrote:Looking forward to doing c6 sites solo in a ASB Vargur. (ASBs will also be buffed with odyssey 1.1 fyi) Unless something has changed, nothing is being done with ASBs in Ody1.1 - "No change to Small/Medium Deadspace boosters, all sizes of ASBs, Capital boosters, Capital reps". It'll still be able to tank well in Bastion-mode though. Just not as insanely well as you might of hoped. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
350
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 09:53:00 -
[587] - Quote
Danica Fox wrote:For PVE boost the Tractor Range to the Jump Range ak 120km and give it a salvage or salvage drone Bonus I always hated the tractor beam bonus on my golem. It was useless as wart on my balls, wasted valuable letters that could've been used for a funny one liner and didn't do anything in the end because of the mere fact that the Noctis exists. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
McBorsk
Multispace Technologies Inc Yulai Federation
13
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:55:00 -
[588] - Quote
AWW YISS! |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
56
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:55:00 -
[589] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:The problem is that they're trying to shove marauders into a niche that doesn't exist so they can stand by their crappy "tech 2 are specialized and worse than pirate ships" picture.
I wish they had never made that picture because it has caused more harm than good. "Specialization" makes sense when you're talking about EWAR, interdiction, and cloaky ships, but what the hell is the difference between a "specialized" brawler/kiter ship and a more generic brawler kiter ship? Did CCP somehow forget that blood raiders ships are highly specialized in cap warfare when making the more general comment?
The difference is that one is a generic ship that can brawl and kite, where as the specialized ship has bonuses specifically tailored to make it a better brawler or kiter. It may be able to do other things but it will likely be ignoring those bonuses if it does. This is shown very clearly in the Command Ships who can completely ignore their link bonuses if they want to but still definitely have a focused role there.
Ersahi Kir wrote:And while I'm ranting about that --------------- picture what about the entire tech 3 confusion. Tech 3 ships are highly specialized to train for, they take more effort to collect materials for, they require specific and highly specialized industry skills to research and build, and on top of that they're expensive to construct and they're the only ship type that you lose skill points for getting blown up in and yet they're going to make them "more general." WTF does that even mean to be "more general.".
T3 ships can do a lot of things but not as well as focused T2 ships. That is exactly what it means. It has nothing to do with the training required to fly them effectively in all of those potential rolls or the cost of the ships.
Ersahi Kir wrote:If you've looked at the tiericide re-balance you can see how their little picture hasn't cleared anything up. There are specialized T1/faction/T2 ships, and there are general T1/faction/T2 ships. Every time they've attempted to apply the specialized role to a T2 brawler ships they've failed horribly.
If you could give specific examples rather than throw out overly general statements that would be great and help me respond to them more effectively. As things stand I don't know what, specifically, you have a problem with.
Ersahi Kir wrote:So please, stop referencing that ------------ picture. It's a waste of server space when used as a reference of how ships should be balanced.
I am sure you have your own ideas on how ships should be balanced, I'm simply reiterating CCP's stated intentions toward ship-re-balancing. Within game-design theory it makes a lot of sense. If you have multiple redundant options then the player-base will gravitate toward whatever they consider to be the best of those options and the others will be ignored.
Giving T2 ships special bonuses rather than having them compete more directly with T1 and Faction ships solves this problem nicely, preserves game-balance, and ensures that we don't get into a power-creep inducing arms race between T2 and Pirate-Faction ships. |
Danica Fox
money talks dirty
1
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:56:00 -
[590] - Quote
and i forgot about null PVE is around ticks more damge more money no one LIKES PVE they do it for pvp
so they will use the efficent one (carries Piratehigh dps or mutibox low maintance solutions like multiple droneboats)
and for missions they are to vast to much flying 30km (no help from mjd) to a gate and something like that spaning @ 100+km
marauders will not shine there (dualprop capinjected targetpainter/tracking computer bs dont tent to have space for tank arent they )
I heard u have a real PVP pro sitting @ the changes where is te guy thats doing pve some time and tells u that u messed up
thats only the pve point the pvp point is in my other post
sandbox is dieing.... |
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Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
398
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:57:00 -
[591] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:but what the hell is the difference between a "specialized" brawler/kiter ship and a more generic brawler kiter ship?
A specialized brawler has skills towards close range abilities, which enhance its close range dps in particular. A good example is Vindicator, whoes web bonus is useless outside brawling range. On the other hand, a generic brawler has skills that enhance close range damage, but can also be used for long range damage. A good example here is Megathron, which is designed as a close range ship, but can be used as a long range one too or a Rokh on the other side, which is specifically a railgun platform, but can be used as a blaster boat too. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
56
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:59:00 -
[592] - Quote
Danica Fox wrote:and i forgot about null PVE is around ticks more damge more money no one LIKES PVE they do it for pvp
I like PvE, I find it much more relaxing and enjoyable than PvP which tends to be fun, but also stressful and much more mentally taxing. Toward this end I very much like the idea that allows me to pull range and watch as the AI blindly charges into me as I Q [F1] them off the field one at a time. |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
1303
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Posted - 2013.08.30 10:00:00 -
[593] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Why not have the Bastion module just use Tactical Weapons Reconfiguration?
+1
Excellent changes, I am really looking forward to how these will perform in fleets. I do however agree that adding another skill is not necessary if you can tie the use of the Bastion module in to Tactical Weapons Reconfiguration.
o7 Personnel Division Director - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse CEO Sanctuary Pact Alliance --áSanctuary Pact |
To mare
Advanced Technology
230
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 10:04:00 -
[594] - Quote
tbh if this is the way CCP want to go why not just give the a -x% on fitting req for siege modules :D |
Emmerik
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
24
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Posted - 2013.08.30 10:05:00 -
[595] - Quote
We don't care about stats that change or modules that a being added. The only thing we want is screenshots of the Bastionmode!!!
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Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
141
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Posted - 2013.08.30 10:06:00 -
[596] - Quote
Question: When activated, does Bastion continue to cycle until deactivated? ie: Is there any set time limit, cooldown (etc.) for how long Bastion can run? (since it's not capacitor or fuel dependent) I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
139
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Posted - 2013.08.30 10:08:00 -
[597] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:The new skill is needed because the Tactical Reconfiguration one gives a fuel reduction to Strontium Clathrates. I'm pretty sure you guys don't want to overflow your cargo with those Also, remember the bastion cycle time is only 60 seconds when maxed. For Incursions, you can always pulse it on / off depending on circumstances.
So..why can't the siegs skill (TWR) simply double dip?
Strontium reduction for siege modules, time reduction for bastion modules.
OR better yet:
Strontium reduction AND time reduction for siege (and bastion - see below) modules, while a the same time increasing base cycle time for siege modules to end up with the same time for skill V. If you also reword the strontium reduction to 10% instead of the flat 25, it would end up being the same value, but you could also apply it to the 0 consumtion of bastion (=large siege, s.b.) modules.
Then rename siege modules to CAPITAL siege modules and bastion modules to LARGE siege modules and you end up with a consistent system. |
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
94
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Posted - 2013.08.30 10:08:00 -
[598] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:The capacitor amount number is way off. The current base capacitor is 7031, so one of the two numbers is off.
/my guess is 8000 capacitor is correct, 9406 seems like an extremely strange and not round number
Base capacitor for Paladin: 5625 With Energy Management 5: 7031,25 With Energy Management 5 & Amarr BS 5: 8789,06 (heh, just because you need that Amarr BS 5 just to sit in one and you shouldn't fly battleships without energy management 5)
5625 + 2375 = 8000 |
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
135
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 10:13:00 -
[599] - Quote
8 as training time multiplier for the bastion skill is too high. That is the same as for dreads (tactical weapon reconfiguration)... Should be 4-5 at most. I even wonder why a new skill is needed? Why can't the module require level 2 TWR? Would make more sense and give extra reason to train it apart from dread siege mode...
I get you want to add skills but giving all new skills high multipliers "just because" is pointless. You just making it a lot harder for new players to get in a marauder since corps will expect you to have this skill before flying a marauder and to qualify for the SRP. Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first. |
Agent Eagle Zero
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.08.30 10:16:00 -
[600] - Quote
The Bastion module gives equal bonuses to optimal and falloff. Shouldn't it be a double bonus for falloff, just like for example the Tracking Enhancer or Tracking Computer? Otherwise the autocannon Vargur and in lesser degree the blaster Kronos would receive an inferior damage projection bonus to the Paladin. |
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