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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
Scarlet Thellere
University of Caille Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 18:53:00 -
[871] - Quote
Some dps bonus in bastion should be in place. Yea, you will be able to tank small gank, but they will be free to just move away from you while you are locked in place for 1min AND you can't get reps, or they can just suck your cap dry and 50% of Marauders will stop shooting and repping leaving only Vargur and golem really viable for pvp. Just not worth it in pvp. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4558
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 18:55:00 -
[872] - Quote
nahjustwarpin wrote:i like how devs rebalanced other ship, but i think this time you chose wrong path.
this rebalance is a clear nerf to marauders without bastion mod in what was considered staple trait of kronos and paladin, web bonus. also reduction of drone bay, and big speed nerf can't go unnoticed.
But what we got is mod that allows to almost tank every mission/complex in game. What if i told you that we can do it already and bastion module doesn't improve anything in here? problem is those little pesky t2 npc frigs, that can get under your gun and without web bonuses, you'll start losing time to take them down because you'll often have to mjd away and back.
I believe that is why god created light drones. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
962
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 18:56:00 -
[873] - Quote
I really like the changes but i have a game mechanics question?
Why is the mass being increased on the marauders? I'm guessing that increasing the mass has a direct impact on the agility and acceleration of the ship...
As a wormholer, battle ship mass is already too restrictive and so increasing it means a lot of people (especially in low class WHs) won't be able to use these new ships.
@ CCP, if you can adjust the agility/velocity/acceleration without increasing the mass, please do that because it would be nice to fly something other that T3 in W-space Putting work in since 2010. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4558
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 18:58:00 -
[874] - Quote
nahjustwarpin wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Gabriel Karade wrote:Hope the feedback on webs is being noted, its really quite simple: Kronos=Duvolle Duvolle=Blasters Blasters=webs If you fit blasters to a battleship hull 'damage projection' is not about using Null (tough break for non T2 guns eh?)... its quite simply about pinning a target in place (90% web) and smashing it to pieces with max damage ammo - this was the beauty of the blasterthron of old; pile into the enemy(s) at point blank and do or die. If you remove the web bonus from the Kronos you delete the last pure-bred Gallente blasterboat. A web bonus is great for in your face battles, but for the most part these ships are designed to fight at range. Granted, we will see folks use their MJD's to land on top of their enemy, but to make the most of their abilities they'll use their bastion module and be immobile... meaning that unless they are stupid they will have other ships at hand to perform tackle and web. you know that with removal of web bonus, you could be scrammed by an assault frig that can alsoturn your mjd off while few alpha ships pick you off? it's not for pvp. it was stated already I believe this is why god created Large Neuts.
Also, whats not for PVP? MJD's?
Please find me the quote that says you're not supposed to use them for PVP. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
nahjustwarpin
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
77
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 18:59:00 -
[875] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Of course there will be a lot of complaints, there always is when something will need to be used differently than what people are used to.
Of course the use of MJD's is becoming commonly adopted by mission runners, so that opposition should die out fairly quickly.
For PVP use a group of Marauders would be an ideal compliment to a group of sentry wielding Domi's, since neither group relies on conventional mobility.
It might even be worth mounting that module (whose name I never can remember) that breaks target locks more effectively the more people are targeting you. With it's huge tank bonus in Bastion mode, combined with that module, it may not miss having a dedicated logistics chain at all. Note, that's pure speculation. I have not used that module myself. Although if a change in bonuses is considered a boost to that module might be an appropriate alternative.
mjd is adopted by mission runners, because they use domis for that and have no range issues when sniping with drones. It becomes a problem when you have to mjd away in a short range boat, because you won't be able to apply damage for next 2 minutes. and if you plan to fit rail or beams on palading, then just stop wasting your ammo and get a domi, you'll do the same dps with it.
for PVP, do you really think your marauder will suddenly become a fortress able to tank 20000 dps alone? No, you won't even have enough buffer to survive 5 seconds of 50 sentry domis hitting you at once |
Battle Cube
Cubes' Freakout Room.
7
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:00:00 -
[876] - Quote
nahjustwarpin wrote:i like how devs rebalanced other ship, but i think this time you chose wrong path.
this rebalance is a clear nerf to marauders without bastion mod in what was considered staple trait of kronos and paladin, web bonus. also reduction of drone bay, and big speed nerf can't go unnoticed.
But what we got is mod that allows to almost tank every mission/complex in game. What if i told you that we can do it already and bastion module doesn't improve anything in here? problem is those little pesky t2 npc frigs, that can get under your gun and without web bonuses, you'll start losing time to take them down because you'll often have to mjd away and back.
i agree so much with everything this guy just said |
Battle Cube
Cubes' Freakout Room.
7
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:01:00 -
[877] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:nahjustwarpin wrote:i like how devs rebalanced other ship, but i think this time you chose wrong path.
this rebalance is a clear nerf to marauders without bastion mod in what was considered staple trait of kronos and paladin, web bonus. also reduction of drone bay, and big speed nerf can't go unnoticed.
But what we got is mod that allows to almost tank every mission/complex in game. What if i told you that we can do it already and bastion module doesn't improve anything in here? problem is those little pesky t2 npc frigs, that can get under your gun and without web bonuses, you'll start losing time to take them down because you'll often have to mjd away and back.
I believe that is why god created light drones.
all 5 of those light drones.....and if 1 or 2 die well.... haha ...ha....ha |
nahjustwarpin
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
77
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:03:00 -
[878] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:nahjustwarpin wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Gabriel Karade wrote:Hope the feedback on webs is being noted, its really quite simple: Kronos=Duvolle Duvolle=Blasters Blasters=webs If you fit blasters to a battleship hull 'damage projection' is not about using Null (tough break for non T2 guns eh?)... its quite simply about pinning a target in place (90% web) and smashing it to pieces with max damage ammo - this was the beauty of the blasterthron of old; pile into the enemy(s) at point blank and do or die. If you remove the web bonus from the Kronos you delete the last pure-bred Gallente blasterboat. A web bonus is great for in your face battles, but for the most part these ships are designed to fight at range. Granted, we will see folks use their MJD's to land on top of their enemy, but to make the most of their abilities they'll use their bastion module and be immobile... meaning that unless they are stupid they will have other ships at hand to perform tackle and web. you know that with removal of web bonus, you could be scrammed by an assault frig that can alsoturn your mjd off while few alpha ships pick you off? it's not for pvp. it was stated already I believe this is why god created Large Neuts.
there's a module called nosferatu, which is also buffed in odyssey. With scram requiring about 1Gj/s your neut can run all the time, because my nos will give me enough cap to perma scram you |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4558
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:03:00 -
[879] - Quote
nahjustwarpin wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Of course there will be a lot of complaints, there always is when something will need to be used differently than what people are used to.
Of course the use of MJD's is becoming commonly adopted by mission runners, so that opposition should die out fairly quickly.
For PVP use a group of Marauders would be an ideal compliment to a group of sentry wielding Domi's, since neither group relies on conventional mobility.
It might even be worth mounting that module (whose name I never can remember) that breaks target locks more effectively the more people are targeting you. With it's huge tank bonus in Bastion mode, combined with that module, it may not miss having a dedicated logistics chain at all. Note, that's pure speculation. I have not used that module myself. Although if a change in bonuses is considered a boost to that module might be an appropriate alternative. mjd is adopted by mission runners, because they use domis for that and have no range issues when sniping with drones. It becomes a problem when you have to mjd away in a short range boat, because you won't be able to apply damage for next 2 minutes. and if you plan to fit rail or beams on palading, then just stop wasting your ammo and get a domi, you'll do the same dps with it. for PVP, do you really think your marauder will suddenly become a fortress able to tank 20000 dps alone? No, you won't even have enough buffer to survive 5 seconds of 50 sentry domis hitting you at once
I think you'll be hard pressed to find support for your theory that MJD's are only good for PVE.
Even so, you do realize that if your "short range boat" does need to MJD out even the shortest ranged weapon will have around a 60km range (more if you set up for additional range).
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
81
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:06:00 -
[880] - Quote
Zaxix wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Just another quick update.
- We are removing the BASTION TRANSFORMERTHINGIEGäó SKILL, as the name was just too awesome to be released to the public (ok ok, more seriously we got the point: having to train a new rank 8 skill just for this module wasn't appealing). Instead, the bastion mode will use high energy physics 4 and energy grid upgrades 5. The former is rank 5, the later you already need to fly the class. The bastion mode cycle time will be reduced to 60s by default to compensate.
- We hear you regarding having to drop the safeties to use the bastion mode in high-sec - we're going to fix it so you don't have to drop them to use the module. However you'll still receive a weapon timer when activating it.
Adjusting OP to reflect this. EDIT: remember all of this is subject to change - training high energy physics is at your own risk if the bastion mode skill requirements change. I like this quick feedback thing. More please! swap tractor for something awesome
TARGET BREAKER!!!!!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA |
|
Invisusira
The Rising Stars The Initiative.
210
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:08:00 -
[881] - Quote
nahjustwarpin wrote:mjd is adopted by mission runners, because they use domis for that and have no range issues when sniping with drones. It becomes a problem when you have to mjd away in a short range boat, because you won't be able to apply damage for next 2 minutes. and if you plan to fit rail or beams on palading, then just stop wasting your ammo and get a domi, you'll do the same dps with it. I know you're used to Rat frigates that travel at 300 m/s, but you do realize that in PvP a frigate can close the MJD gap in a matter of seconds, right? Core Skills | EVE Music | Internet Spaceship Killboard Link |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4558
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:08:00 -
[882] - Quote
nahjustwarpin wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:nahjustwarpin wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Gabriel Karade wrote:Hope the feedback on webs is being noted, its really quite simple: Kronos=Duvolle Duvolle=Blasters Blasters=webs If you fit blasters to a battleship hull 'damage projection' is not about using Null (tough break for non T2 guns eh?)... its quite simply about pinning a target in place (90% web) and smashing it to pieces with max damage ammo - this was the beauty of the blasterthron of old; pile into the enemy(s) at point blank and do or die. If you remove the web bonus from the Kronos you delete the last pure-bred Gallente blasterboat. A web bonus is great for in your face battles, but for the most part these ships are designed to fight at range. Granted, we will see folks use their MJD's to land on top of their enemy, but to make the most of their abilities they'll use their bastion module and be immobile... meaning that unless they are stupid they will have other ships at hand to perform tackle and web. you know that with removal of web bonus, you could be scrammed by an assault frig that can alsoturn your mjd off while few alpha ships pick you off? it's not for pvp. it was stated already I believe this is why god created Large Neuts. there's a module called nosferatu, which is also buffed in odyssey. With scram requiring about 1Gj/s your neut can run all the time, because my nos will give me enough cap to perma scram you Preaching to the choir son, but there are ways around that... particularly since you have multiple utility high slots to work with. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Invisusira
The Rising Stars The Initiative.
210
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:09:00 -
[883] - Quote
The Kid thought he might transform himself into somethin' a bit more.... formidable. Core Skills | EVE Music | Internet Spaceship Killboard Link |
nahjustwarpin
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
78
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:10:00 -
[884] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:nahjustwarpin wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Of course there will be a lot of complaints, there always is when something will need to be used differently than what people are used to.
Of course the use of MJD's is becoming commonly adopted by mission runners, so that opposition should die out fairly quickly.
For PVP use a group of Marauders would be an ideal compliment to a group of sentry wielding Domi's, since neither group relies on conventional mobility.
It might even be worth mounting that module (whose name I never can remember) that breaks target locks more effectively the more people are targeting you. With it's huge tank bonus in Bastion mode, combined with that module, it may not miss having a dedicated logistics chain at all. Note, that's pure speculation. I have not used that module myself. Although if a change in bonuses is considered a boost to that module might be an appropriate alternative. mjd is adopted by mission runners, because they use domis for that and have no range issues when sniping with drones. It becomes a problem when you have to mjd away in a short range boat, because you won't be able to apply damage for next 2 minutes. and if you plan to fit rail or beams on palading, then just stop wasting your ammo and get a domi, you'll do the same dps with it. for PVP, do you really think your marauder will suddenly become a fortress able to tank 20000 dps alone? No, you won't even have enough buffer to survive 5 seconds of 50 sentry domis hitting you at once I think you'll be hard pressed to find support for your theory that MJD's are only good for PVE. Even so, you do realize that if your "short range boat" does need to MJD out even the shortest ranged weapon will have around a 60km range (more if you set up for additional range).
sorry, but blasters with VOID have 7+6k range, if i'll start shooting with NULL, it's 12.6+16.8 and does only about 1k dps with 3 fed magstabs. why would i fly a 1b ship that gain 25% of that range when i can just field 10x cheaper domi that actually has buffer and does 80% of that damage and ALSO can mjd away? hell i could even use an active tanked hyperion because it MOVES |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4558
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:12:00 -
[885] - Quote
/facepalm To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:17:00 -
[886] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:Lixia Saran wrote:Jessica Danikov wrote: Who doesn't want a Bastion Rokh? Makes a lot more sense than trying to twist the Raven/Golem into it.
Golem with the Rokh hull? YOU HAVE MY VOTE! seriously, the Rokh needs a faction / Tech 2 hull. Scorpions and Ravens already have their multiple versions. blops rokh with kaalakiota colors is what we really need :| Transforming Abaddon hull Paladin...
It would take a bit getting used to. |
nahjustwarpin
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
78
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:17:00 -
[887] - Quote
Invisusira wrote:nahjustwarpin wrote:mjd is adopted by mission runners, because they use domis for that and have no range issues when sniping with drones. It becomes a problem when you have to mjd away in a short range boat, because you won't be able to apply damage for next 2 minutes. and if you plan to fit rail or beams on palading, then just stop wasting your ammo and get a domi, you'll do the same dps with it. I know you're used to Rat frigates that travel at 300 m/s, but you do realize that in PvP a frigate can close the MJD gap in a matter of seconds, right?
read first few words, |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
819
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:19:00 -
[888] - Quote
not good for PvE?
Are you ******* kidding me?
This is awesome. Had no reason to get into a Vargur, Ever. Now I does.
Thank you CCP, from the bottom of my isogen drained bittervet heart. Eve is Real |
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:20:00 -
[889] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:Sekeris wrote:Veng3ance wrote:Honestly this is all pretty worthless without a damage increase from the bastion module.
They will just get blapped super fast by any sized fleet and the benefit of having extra range and tracking is NOT going to make it worth using. Considering that they lost a fair portion of thier drone dps some sort of dmg boost would be nice, it does not have to be times crazy like the dreads, but a 50, or 100% dmg boost would make this worth something. The dammage projection is very nice, as is the tank, but i needs something a little extra. I'd be happy with even a 25-50%(someone can run numbers if they want and tell me exactly how wrong I am for the goal as stated below). Just enough to put them at the same level or just above Pirate BS while in Bastion, but below them while out. Choosing RR/mobility or Damage. Again, I don't think a damage boost is warranted here. I'd be happy with a 25% Tracking/Explosion bonus. Same DPS, but more of it is applied. Fits the stated role rather well, I think.
|
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
364
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:23:00 -
[890] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Just another quick update.
- We are removing the BASTION TRANSFORMERTHINGIEGäó SKILL, as the name was just too awesome to be released to the public (ok ok, more seriously we got the point: having to train a new rank 8 skill just for this module wasn't appealing). Instead, the bastion mode will use high energy physics 4 and energy grid upgrades 5. The former is rank 5, the later you already need to fly the class. The bastion mode cycle time will be reduced to 60s by default to compensate.
- We hear you regarding having to drop the safeties to use the bastion mode in high-sec - we're going to fix it so you don't have to drop them to use the module. However you'll still receive a weapon timer when activating it.
Adjusting OP to reflect this. EDIT: remember all of this is subject to change - training high energy physics is at your own risk if the bastion mode skill requirements change.
I'd prefer a new skill over a carebear industry skill tbh. |
|
Henry Montclaire
Sirius Cybernetics Corperation And Co-operative Dalek Asylum
59
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:23:00 -
[891] - Quote
This looks really interesting. I think I'll start training towards a Marauder now! |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2646
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:24:00 -
[892] - Quote
The next invasion of Delve is gonna sound like this. |
Bacchanalian
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
226
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:25:00 -
[893] - Quote
These look gimmicky, and don't appear to add much inherent value to a fleet comp that no one would currently engage anyway. Besides with blap dreads, which this fleet would provide a field day for. Kill three of em and you've won the isk war even if you lose a dread. And to kill three of them you simply have to cycle your guns three times (maybe 6 if they're buffered). |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
774
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:26:00 -
[894] - Quote
Notice how two most "liked" comments in this thread are (approximately) "worst idea ever".
Please, add script for damage boost instead of standard tracking / range - so bastion module won't be useless in incursions (structures shooting).
And replace new skill with standard tactical weapon reconfiguration (to make transition from BS to dreads easier).
Also local repair bonus does not scale during fleet encounters. Could be great to replace all local repair bonuses with "received healing" bonus (for command ships too). |
Jaz Antollare
Deadly Loneliness
25
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:29:00 -
[895] - Quote
Give marauders some sensor strength, +5 maybe. and increase the tractor bonus! Other than that it looks really great!
Btw the safety control must be in yellow or in red? (I think the yellow would be just fine) |
Admiral EnderWiggin
Battlestars Ex Cinere Scriptor
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:29:00 -
[896] - Quote
I wouldn't risk a marauder in incursion with the way bastion is designed now. Unless I could easily solo tank. Which would be kinda OP. Please review the concept. |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
81
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:30:00 -
[897] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Just another quick update.
- We are removing the BASTION TRANSFORMERTHINGIEGäó SKILL, as the name was just too awesome to be released to the public (ok ok, more seriously we got the point: having to train a new rank 8 skill just for this module wasn't appealing). Instead, the bastion mode will use high energy physics 4 and energy grid upgrades 5. The former is rank 5, the later you already need to fly the class. The bastion mode cycle time will be reduced to 60s by default to compensate.
- We hear you regarding having to drop the safeties to use the bastion mode in high-sec - we're going to fix it so you don't have to drop them to use the module. However you'll still receive a weapon timer when activating it.
Adjusting OP to reflect this. EDIT: remember all of this is subject to change - training high energy physics is at your own risk if the bastion mode skill requirements change. I'd prefer a new skill over a carebear industry skill tbh.
Multitasking at 5 would be nice. |
Tzel Mayon
Wind And Flame Stellar Eclipse
6
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:33:00 -
[898] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Joining the call for the Bastion Module to use Tactical Weapons Reconfig, like Siege Modules. I'm sure that your coders are capable of dealing with the small aspect of the fuel reduction on the skill not messing things up easily in the next four months. It creates a good flow through for ships which have similar functions. Much like Covert Ops have the same sub skills needed for function as recons do. And EAF need to train the same EWar skills. They don't suddenly change EWar skills simply because you have gone up a ship size.
Also the low base sensor strength still needs a look at. EWar immunity is all fine & dandy when deployed, but they should have at least T1 BS strength on their sensors to allow for any kind of mobility. Otherwise the MJD bonus part is utterly useless since any time not deployed you can't do anything.
To be honest, "Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration" should be renamed to "Siege Operations" ... Or something like that.
An /actual" Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration that allowed you to, oh say ... "Tactically reconfigure your weapons" would be awesome.
Perhaps something that affected ammo reload times and crystal damage, or going as far as to let you reconfigure your current weapons to enter a different mode, (perhaps high power modules that allow you to temporarily add more range/tracking at the expense of heat damage, or something.)
There are a lot of Misnomers in Eve.
I don't want to perpetuate the problem by having "Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration" apply to something that is actually "Tactical Hull Reconfiguration." or "Siege Operations". |
luredivino
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
24
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:40:00 -
[899] - Quote
A reduction in the effectiveness of energy neutralizers would be another useful bonus. Would make it so these things could run level 5s or certain complexes without getting drained to 0 instantly. |
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
243
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:42:00 -
[900] - Quote
Props for going the tough road.
It'll be a nightmare to balance (I won't comment on the details, I am not qualified.), so this surely looks like the first class to have a look at again Winter 1.1 and thereafter...
I DO like the idea, especially the bridge between sup-cap and capital operations |
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