Daniel Plain " in missions anything more than a flight of lights (and maybe a flight of salvage drones) is absolutely irrelevant in terms of dps."

So anything more than 5 lights in any mission any where is doing it wrong? How magnanimous of you to let us know how wrong we have been all these years, using more than 5 lights. Man, what were we thinking? I get 190 dps from 3 sentries or 3 heavy drones but my fitting window must be broke cause thats nearly double the DPS I get with 5 lights?

Presumably for the same reasons that people choose to fit a painter over a TC when using turrets - ignoring the multiple modules and stacking argument, that is.

The skilled painter gives a bigger bonus to tracking than a tracking-scripted TC (37.5% (or 40% for a 20 mill RF one) and 30%), but ofc the TC has the option of the range script. If a missile guidance computer follows this path then it'll give less to precision than a painter, but have an option for a script to increase missile velocity or flight time.

Fair Point, in that case i would say they need about 20% more resistance to make it so they can cope, so maybe a 4% bonus per level buff on the ship

After thinking about this for somtime time..

Leave marauders as they are

But as for these mini-dreads - Rokh, Baddon, Hype & Mael - are all yet to see a T2 varient!

so people who want the mini dreads can have them
& those they still love the marauders as they are can still have them too!!

.....
I'm all up for interesting changes, and this definitely is something new, but I do have some practical concerns regarding the use of rails for Kronos in PvE situations.

1) From actual experience, I do know that rail Kronos has hard time applying DPS on Angel battleships inside 10km range without 90% webs.
.....

Do you even know what you're talking about?

Marauders are fine for any content highsec can throw at them tank-wise. If you can't tank it in a marauder, you're doing it wrong.

In incursions using these would even be super-bad since you can't get RR anymore.

The defensive bonuses of the bastion mode are lost on highsec players, simply because it's overkill. Maybe you can fit a 4th weapon upgrade or something, to squeeze out an extra 50-100dps or so, but that's DPS lost anyway because of the removal of drone bandwith.

Sorry, have been away for a few days, but now to answer you... not true. If you can boost the tank with 1 module in the highslots then you can free other mid/lowslots for better damage application or even dps. And if your case would be true then the HS bears wouldn't mind not being able to use it, right?

I just think it would make sense to make a mod like this only available in the lower security regions to lure people to go there. Give people reasons to move out of their little empire space and if it's just to unleash the full power of their marauders! I don't see why this would be a big issue, it works for many other mods, too - and especially as a stepping stone between BS - Cap-sized ships it'd make sense.

T2 hyperion... heh. I can imagine a youtube channel dedicated to the 20:1 gatecamp fights...

Hyp is my favourite ship, but I don't think even I would argue for a T2 monster hyperion in the game

But I agree with your sentiment.

Try thinking of it like this. You don't need to fit a massive tank, you can strip modules that are otherwise required for a mission like a Shield Boost Amp for a Golem off and replace them with damage application mods like extra Target Painters, missile damage app mods if we ever get them, cap mods, or prop mods.

The extra range can make Torp fits more viable, especially combine with the Target Painter bonus and freed up slots.

E-War is fairly common is missions and sites as well, and while it's not crippling it cuts down on completion times and is very frustrating. The Bastion mode E-War immunity lets you get around this and speeds up your mission or site times. It also gets rid of a frequent complaint with Marauders without giving them a flat buff for PvP.

The Defender Missiles point is very valid and I'd like to see something like a Missile HP buff added either to the Golem or to Bastion to make up for it since that seems to really hinder the ship at least with Cruise-Missile setups.

Overall though if you want to stick to your CNR that's your choice, I think if the ship is completely too good to resist then CCP have over-buffed it.

A few problems: One, it requires a long train on-map than the proposed skill does off-map. Two, it will likely cause confusion about whether or not the module requires fuel to operate. Three, it's meant to buff and unlock a single largely unrelated module (the only thing they have in common is the basics of the siege mechanic, nothing else).

The new fitting on the Vargur, with these bonuses, and the fact it's already one of the sexiest looking ships in the game, makes me unreasonably excited.

Not going to dig through 74 pages to find if it was mentioned already.

I dont see why should I prefer Marauder over Carrier for nullsec ratting. Carriers have better tank, more DPS, better projection, dont have to deploy and cost only a tad more. So what's the point?

Not going to dig through 74 pages to find if it was mentioned already.

I dont see why should I prefer Marauder over Carrier for nullsec ratting. Carriers have better tank, more DPS, better projection, dont have to deploy and cost only a tad more. So what's the point?

I'm not sure I follow this - if you're talking about missions, a web bonus is not needed - with turrets, you snipe the frigates first before they come in close. Even when they do come close, a 90% web usually isn't enough to keep transversal down to hit them with large guns.

When they're close, use drones - and Marauders still have enough dronebay to use lights and take care of that. With missiles, bit pointless to shoot frigates first. In all cases the web strength is highly situational in missions. Maybe using 2 webs? But that's a bit overkill when they can just be dealt faster with drones while you focus on larger ships with guns.

However, the extra resists, damage projection, EW immunity is going to be of tremendous help in missions like "The Blockade" where there are 1346454 NPCs using E-war while in Bastion mode. Even without it, Kronos and Paladin new falloff and optimal range bonuses are going to be useful 100% of the time, instead of extreme close range like a web bonus.

With the PW upgrade, could vargur fit 1200mm?

With the PW upgrade, could vargur fit 1200mm?

Not going to dig through 74 pages to find if it was mentioned already.

I dont see why should I prefer Marauder over Carrier for nullsec ratting. Carriers have better tank, more DPS, better projection, dont have to deploy and cost only a tad more. So what's the point?

So why are you reducing the ships capacity to use drones?

If you are going to limit to bandwidth to dictate what size drones can be used, there is no need to reduce the drone bay. It is a curious decision when you look at the Kronos... It can use 5 medium drones but can also only carry 5 med drones. Once is loses one is has no ability to replace it withouts restocking at a station.

The Kronos should either have a bay big enought for 10 med drones or the bandwidth should be reduced to 25... Personally, I'd prefer the former.

Not going to dig through 74 pages to find if it was mentioned already.

I dont see why should I prefer Marauder over Carrier for nullsec ratting. Carriers have better tank, more DPS, better projection, dont have to deploy and cost only a tad more. So what's the point?

Are you saying that the bastion module makes you feel safer about lowsec pve?

I think most people would see the bastion module as a liability in lowsec, in the same way as triage mode on carriers. Being forced to stay still is a huge liability.

Are you saying that the bastion module makes you feel safer about lowsec pve?

I think most people would see the bastion module as a liability in lowsec, in the same way as triage mode on carriers. Being forced to stay still is a huge liability.

I fail to see what these new ship designs really have to do with the spirit of the Marauder - they seem to be essentially a new ship class under an old name.

Marauders the very name itself symbolises speed, agility, self sufficient hit and run operations deep behind enemy lines.

I would ask CCP to give us a true Marauder plus develop this mini-Dread concept more fully with the help of the community perhaps even using a different tier battleship hull as the starting point. The Bastion module idea is a decent addition to the Eve technology base but tacking it onto the Marauder class is a mistake in my opinion.

Gort

C4 sites, get ready.

You gon' get Vargurified.