I'm getting rather tired of every ship 'upgrade' having a new, or multiple, associated skills go along with it.

Anyone else think that their Paladin is going to go "vertical"








huehuehuehue

Yeah, because the problem with eve was that level 4 missions were just too slow.

I have no idea why you are buffing empire missioning to such a large degree.

I really didn't expect this! Interesting - won't help me for PvE though!

Anyone else think that their Paladin is going to go "vertical"








huehuehuehue

This may not be the thread for it, but why? There are definitely people running out of things to train and -- let's face it -- this one in particular is far from a mandatory skill for most purposes. Unless you make a habit of removing high sec towers it seems pretty niche.

hey how come the siege module only gives missiles one bonus?

guns get application bonus + range
missiles get range

doesnt really make sense to me

CCP is intentionally adding skills to increase training time to effectively use old ships, mods, etc. Instead, they should just roll the 'bastion' skillbook into say, Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration, as it serves the exact same function.

Uses no specific fuel or capacitor - we were discussing the use of Heavy Water as fuel. However, it doesn't really provide any gameplay (as CCP Rise mentioned, capacitor is the main limiting factor in combat with those ships). Plus it adds more consumables to a class that already commonly uses charges for weapons, cap boosters and need to keep cargo for possible salvaging.

BASTION MODULE

Provides 30% shield, armor and hull resistances when activated, which function on the same way than Damage Control modules (not stacking penalized)

Do you mean that only one can be fitted per ship and I don't understand the (not stacking penalized) comment. Does this in fact mean that you could fit MOAR THAN ONE and activate two at the same time? *Cue wet pants*.

Very interesting...

On the specifics of the proposal... Can you start to spool your MJD in Bastion mode? Assuming EWar immunity includes Scrams what is to stop a small gang of these in low-sec? Just Bastion mode for 60 seconds, spool your MJD at 55 seconds, and you are gone before you can be tackled.

That said Marauders V finishes in 2 days, so I am looking very much looking forward to flying these.

Badly needs a DPS bonus to go with it. For having to be 100% committed to an action for that kind of time, it should AT LEAST be able to kick around 3k DPS, 4k would be better. This is, after all, a highsec/subcapital WH dread.

Yes, this can be used in high-sec of course. You just get a weapon timer (requires security to be turned off though).

Do not underestimate the use of the bastion module, even for missions. The innate tank allows removal of tanking modules on fittings and the projection bonus helps a lot as well. I remember reaching 55-60km falloff on a Neutron Blaster Kronos on our internal test server

Only one bastion module may be fitted, but the resistance given don't stack, just like Damage Control. You can still fit one -with- a damage control though.

Looks like a pretty useful ship for solo ships to clear out higher level DED sites and maybe incursion stuff.

As someone with Marauders V trained on three different accounts, I'm excited about changes to this ship class. What I am not excited about is a new skill. Why can't the new module use either Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration or Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration? This game doesn't need more skills. If necessary add a fuel bay and make the ship use Strontium or Heavy Water or something.

that's just dumb ... don't caps do 2-3k dps??
these are clearly more about tank and range than raw dps

Yes, this can be used in high-sec of course. You just get a weapon timer (requires security to be turned off though).

Do not underestimate the use of the bastion module, even for missions. The innate tank allows removal of tanking modules on fittings and the projection bonus helps a lot as well. I remember reaching 55-60km falloff on a Null Neutron Blaster Kronos on our internal test server

Only one bastion module may be fitted, but the resistance given don't stack, just like Damage Control. You can still fit one -with- a damage control though.

As someone with Marauders V trained on three different accounts, I'm excited about changes to this ship class. What I am not excited about is a new skill. Why can't the new module use either Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration or Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration? This game doesn't need more skills. If necessary add a fuel bay and make the ship use Strontium or Heavy Water or something.

we were discussing the use of Heavy Water as fuel. However, it doesn't really provide any gameplay (as CCP Rise mentioned, capacitor is the main limiting factor in combat with those ships). Plus it adds more consumables to a class that already commonly uses charges for weapons, cap boosters and need to keep cargo for possible salvaging.

so whats the time scale for their release?

The new skill is needed because the Tactical Reconfiguration one gives a fuel reduction to Strontium Clathrates. I'm pretty sure you guys don't want to overflow your cargo with those

Also, remember the bastion cycle time is only 60 seconds when maxed. For Incursions, you can always pulse it on / off depending on circumstances.

55-60km falloff on a Null Neutron Blaster Kronos

The new skill is needed because the Tactical Reconfiguration one gives a fuel reduction to Strontium Clathrates. I'm pretty sure you guys don't want to overflow your cargo with those

Also, remember the bastion cycle time is only 60 seconds when maxed. For Incursions, you can always pulse it on / off depending on circumstances.

Umm Winter?

have you considered reducing the strength of the bonuses a little so many 10% bonuses 100% bonuses seems too much once stacked alongside this bastion module and in general?

I like.

What sort of fuel of any will bastion use?
what is the cycle time?

And you guys wonder why small ships are irrelevant in actual fights.

will you fix mjd's so that people cant jump when pointed anymore?

it's pretty dumb... caps can't jump when pointed or bubbled, yet a watered down version of them can...

will you fix mjd's so that people cant jump when pointed anymore?

it's pretty dumb... caps can't jump when pointed or bubbled, yet a watered down version of them can...

Since you mentioned faction, you dev's should probly start thinking about boosting the ehp on both blood frigate and cruisers i wanna fly a ashimu and murder everthing.

So are we going to see blap-dreads with blap-marauder support? :p

The new skill is needed because the Tactical Reconfiguration one gives a fuel reduction to Strontium Clathrates. I'm pretty sure you guys don't want to overflow your cargo with those

Also, remember the bastion cycle time is only 60 seconds when maxed. For Incursions, you can always pulse it on / off depending on circumstances.

Not from Tribal Band. From us? Who knows?

The amount a vargur can tank atm is already crazy. Now give it 30% resist across the board and double the shield repair amount....

That thing will be absolutly crazy. Looking forward to doing c6 sites solo in a ASB Vargur.

..and need to keep cargo for possible salvaging.

So if I did my math right, a max skilled MJD pilot with a Marauder can jump in 2.7 seconds? 9 * .3 (70% reduction) = 2.7

i think you need to read mjd description, you can't use it if you're warp scrambled

The amount a vargur can tank atm is already crazy. Now give it 30% resist across the board and double the shield repair amount....

That thing will be absolutly crazy. Looking forward to doing c6 sites solo in a ASB Vargur. (ASBs will also be buffed with odyssey 1.1 fyi)

"Skill at the operation of siege modules. 25-unit reduction in strontium clathrate consumption amount for Siege Module activation per skill level."

Without proper bonus to salvaging (reduced cycle time) fitting Salvager on Marauder is not viable option. In current state, it's just better and faster to make bookmark on wreck and bring Noctis. And 3 Tractor beams for looting is the best option.
I wonder why you don't want to increase tractor beam bonus? It's not like it might affect PVP balance in any way or leave Noctis without currrent role.

I'll make sure we talk tomorrow about the tracking bonus for turret ships (I had understood that neither turrets or missiles were getting an application bonus). I believe its meant to say 25% optimal and 25% falloff.

Either way it won't be unequal as it is currently listed.

No, that's the spool up timer when you activate the MJD. The bonus reduces reactivation time by 70%. Thus, 180s*0.3 = 54 seconds.

No, that's the spool up timer when you activate the MJD. The bonus reduces reactivation time by 70%. Thus, 180s*0.3 = 54 seconds.

will you fix mjd's so that people cant jump when pointed anymore?

Does this mean that all 90% webs are going the **** away?

Because that would be awesome.

Also this is so weird i dont' really have an opinon on it... But this is definitely better than dedicated mission ships/bs's with t2 res like i was expecting.


Edit: Ok actually one thing

Why the flying freck is it acceptable to have blasters hitting up to 50 km? what the ****?

Does this mean that all 90% webs are going the **** away?

Because that would be awesome.

Also this is so weird i dont' really have an opinon on it... But this is definitely better than dedicated mission ships/bs's with t2 res like i was expecting.


Edit: Ok actually one thing

Why the flying freck is it acceptable to have blasters hitting up to 50 km? what the ****?

GÇóExtends all large turret falloff and tracking by 25%

why just falloff and not optimal range? does this not give a big boost to arty/blaster setups and not much for rails and lazors?

As a final combo bonus, we also are changing Target Painter cycle time from 10 to 5 seconds, and reducing their cap usage to compensate - waiting for the Target Painter cycle to finish before swapping targets is quite annoying on the Golem.

I'd rather see a tracking penalty and a DPS increase. As is, where are you expecting these to be used? In nullsec, they will get eaten alive by bombers, in w-space they use too much mass (and can't fit into C1 holes where you really might like a mini-dread).

It seems to me like they will still be PVE boats, which you claimed you wanted to change.

GÇóExtends all large turret falloff and tracking by 25%

why just falloff and not optimal range? does this not give a big boost to arty/blaster setups and not much for rails and lazors?

Magic

Quoted the best part.

The new skill is needed because the Tactical Reconfiguration one gives a fuel reduction to Strontium Clathrates. I'm pretty sure you guys don't want to overflow your cargo with those

Also, remember the bastion cycle time is only 60 seconds when maxed. For Incursions, you can always pulse it on / off depending on circumstances.

what?i dont even know where to start

Extends all large turret falloff and tracking by 25%
Increases all large missile max velocity by 25%

why missiles dont get a second bonus?turrets get falloff and tracking.

Add a fuel bay. Problem solved.

If you are going to make them PVE boats, how about a large salvage drone bonus? Less clicking for salvage makes people happy

what like you want explosion velocity... wonder how much of an affect that would have on torps.

Why not have the Bastion module just use Tactical Weapons Reconfiguration?

2 cents
Default movement modes (warping, flying, jumping) does not require any fuel, but every other special movement type (siege mode etc.) does
Bastion mode is not a default way marauders fly, so for the sake of consistence it should consume some resources whether it's heavy water or ozone or whatever else
Adding extra fuel bay is a way to go

This. If bastion is a stepping stone to dreads just make it the same skill.

Yes, this can be used in high-sec of course. You just get a weapon timer (requires security to be turned off though).

Do not underestimate the use of the bastion module, even for missions. The innate tank allows removal of tanking modules on fittings and the projection bonus helps a lot as well. I remember reaching 55-60km falloff on a Null Neutron Blaster Kronos on our internal test server

Only one bastion module may be fitted, but the resistance given don't stack, just like Damage Control. You can still fit one -with- a damage control though.

Add a fuel bay. Problem solved.

Mini Dreads? Completely unnecessary. Why not just use a dread? Surely you guys can start coming up with more unique ship applications instead of mimicking what's already there.

good, all your marauders will be alphaed off the field pretty fast when you can't use logis on them :)

The ultimate gay station games ships.

This. If bastion is a stepping stone to dreads just make it the same skill.

Also what's the point of the mass addition in bastion mod when it can't move anyway?

Also what's the point of the mass addition in bastion mod when it can't move anyway?

Change the tractor beam bonus for something more useful, this is the noctis era after all.

Mini Dreads? Completely unnecessary. Why not just use a dread? Surely you guys can start coming up with more unique ship applications instead of mimicking what's already there.

And as if players needed to be even more dominate in missions. Really?

Also receives a weapons timer that prevents station docking or gate jumping

Will i be able to jump through WH with active bastion ?

You can't move with an active Bastion so I doubt it.

to jump you dont need to move

Also what's the point of the mass addition in bastion mod when it can't move anyway?

Well i expected the marauder "rebalancing" will be stupid, but damn, this is a whole new level of dumb, while you're at it, make the remaining 4 slots into yu-gi-oh card launchers.

How hard is it to make a t2 bs, with t2 resists and decent sensor strenght?

I especially find the harrasing angle funny, you're making a slower, less base armor/shield, less dps, than pirate/faction battleship into a "harrasing" bs, just because you should fit a MJD. You do realize that people actually fit scramblers?
And how exactly does that add to the fitting options? Looks like MJD and Cap booster are going to be mandatory along with the bastion module.

Anyway stop using alcohol or drugs while changing the game, worse, if you're sober while doing it, fire the people behind those ideas.

You already ****** up the marauders once, don't do it again.

I know your just going to ignore everything I just wrote, since you have an infinite number of fanboys wanting transformation effects, but can I at least get my skillpoints back from the marauders V skill?

Thought for Bastion Mode -

Can we get it so the Marauder in Bastion Mode is unprobable?

This would help it immensely survive against on-grid probing if it's in a sniper role, as there's little point in being fixed at near-warpable distances that isn't a death sentence. (It also incentives Interceptors or MJDing battleships hunting them down)

This also has the dual-purpose of making Marauders very good for dangerous mission running in Low Security / Null Security. If your mission is trying to be broken into, you can Bastion mode to disguise yourself and protect the mission. Hunters will have to wait for you at stargates or stations then, unless they play the waiting game with you.

That would give them a very useful niche PVE role as well, as only Tech 3 Cruisers could hope to mission in that manner. Unlike the Tech 3s, though, the Marauder doesn't have system wide affecting capabilities (boosting).

Thought for Bastion Mode -
This also has the dual-purpose of making Marauders very good for dangerous mission running in Low Security / Null Security. If your mission is trying to be broken into, you can Bastion mode to disguise yourself and protect the mission. Hunters will have to wait for you at stargates or stations then, unless they play the waiting game with you.

That would give them a very useful niche PVE role as well, as only Tech 3 Cruisers could hope to mission in that manner. Unlike the Tech 3s, though, the Marauder doesn't have system wide affecting capabilities (boosting).

DON'T FIX WHAT AIN'T BROKEN - LEAVE IT AS IT IS!!!

-Snipped- I think the specialization provided by these T2 BSs is very clear, concise and awesome. Their role is clear, and outside of a few tweaks, I'm excited to give them a shot when they hit singularity.

You're missing the entire point of the Marauder rebalancing. The goal is not to have stronger T1 BSs, which is what you're wanting with "a t2 bs, with t2 resists and decent sensor strenght" (sic). If you want stronger dps, then use a pirate or Navy BS, and if you're looking for strong tank, then use a Marauder.

They'll have plenty of application as tanky weapons platforms, and the lack of sensor strength is compensated with the immunity to ewar. There isn't necessarily a need for strong sensor strength outside of bastion if CCP is trying to give compelling reasons to fly one ship over the rest.

If these ships just performed like a Vigilant or Mach, what would be their intent? Why use these over them or a Navy BS? CCP is creating the situation that if you want a strong, mobile platform that tanks extremely well, but has to commit to it, then use a Marauder. If you want a strong tank on a platform that very agile and doesn't have to commit, but has a lot of dps, then a pirate BS is what you should be looking at. Lastly, if you want an agile BS with good tank and strong ehp and damage, fly a Navy BS, and they'll be cheaper to boot. (Then of course you can always fly T1 for a solid all-around performer at a bargain-basement price.)

I think the specialization provided by these T2 BSs is very clear, concise and awesome. Their role is clear, and outside of a few tweaks, I'm excited to give them a shot when they hit singularity.

Main problem with marauders for PvE - which is the only part of EvE I know crap about - is the low resists and thus low ehp. Really hoped you'd fix that instead of adding dancing girls or making it a mini dread. All in all this will still be interesting, but waltzes around the real problem.

Edit: Love the PG additions, especially having a Vargur that can fit arties.

If these ships just performed like a Vigilant or Mach, what would be their intent? Why use these over them or a Navy BS?

but has to commit to it,

I think the specialization provided by these T2 BSs is very clear, concise and awesome.

Maybe you missed the part in the original post that stated:

Bastion Module:
"Provides 30% shield, armor and hull resistances when activated"

The "mini dread" part of your reply you almost state as if it is a negative against these hulls. I couldn't disagree more. Having better damage application through the Bastion Module is going to allow missions to be blitzed much faster.

Who cares about this?
You are wrecking both the Kronos and Paladin by removing a key element: the web bonuses, plus gimping all of them in DPS by nerfing the drone bays.

Yah, you have made this into a PvP ship, but once again wrecked another PvE ship.

All part of the plan, I assume.

Awesome (i proposed long time ago transforming BS's by myself ;) but for T3 ships).

But i still don't like TP bonus on Golem... You removed EW bonus from other marauders but leave this...
I rather see 5% explosion radius reduction in it's place (with removing mid slot)


Second thing is Bastion module, looks very cool but...

• Extends all large turret falloff and tracking by 25%
• Increases all large missile max velocity by 25%

Why two bonuses for turrets and only one for missiles? It should be 25% for missile max velo and explosion radius (then i will live somehow without expl bonus on Golem...). I believe it's only mistake because as You say it should give marauders better damage aplication, but without explo radius bonus it wont give it to missiles...

i would agree that losing the drones and web buff would just make these a huge liability in PvE, yeah you could tank for a long time but that will do little to help you deal with the frigs that get close and keep you scrammed and webbed. would make marauders mostly a liability in a mission

Nopes, didn't miss that at all. Low ehp isn't a problem in actual PvE, but mainly at gates/station. Won't bastion there, will you now?

i would agree that losing the drones and web buff would just make these a huge liability in PvE, yeah you could tank for a long time but that will do little to help you deal with the frigs that get close and keep you scrammed and webbed. would make marauders mostly a liability in a mission

Yea it's not like they're going to be stupidly OP for most PvE roles with the current listed changes anyway.

Awful idea.

Yes, because being able to MJD off to range and siege up to one-shot the frigs is such a liability, especially when you're a bare few seconds from being able to MJD again when you come out of siege mode on these things.

what?i dont even know where to start

Extends all large turret falloff and tracking by 25%
Increases all large missile max velocity by 25%

why missiles dont get a second bonus?turrets get falloff and tracking.

And they're MWD'ing towards your Golem...let's think about that for a bit...

Seems like CCP forgot the PVE side of the Marauders.

also,why only 4 guns/marauder?with the extra slot gained,you guys can increase the gun/missiles slot to 5

also,why only 4 guns/marauder?with the extra slot gained,you guys can increase the gun/missiles slot to 5

Moving these ships to pvp is nice and all but at the expense of slashing its ability to do pve is not really that fair.