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Sticky:[Winter] Marauder rebalancing

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 30 post(s)
Xequecal GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 64	Posted - 2013.09.05 14:14:00 - [2551] - Quote marVLs wrote: Xequecal wrote: For PvE, they have no competition at all in wormholes. They are vastly superior to everything else by an absurd degree. These ships (well, not the Golem) crap out 1200+ DPS while still tanking the site, have the range bonuses to fully apply that DPS, and now have super-webs so drones must not be risked to kill frigate waves. They also salvage everything, no need to come back with a Noctis. Oh and you can also put a probe launcher on it too so you don't have to worry about getting stuck or having a probing alt. When people think of C3/C4 solo right now, they think of a 600-700 DPS Tengu. These come in and do double that DPS. 1200 DPS kills a C3 Sleeper battleship in a minute, that's a 15-20m ISK rat killed in a minute. lol where You got 1200DPS on long ranges? Maybe on Vargur? hmm nope, 1,1k DPS on 5km in Bastion Kronos? nope, on null 1,1k DPS on 20few km in Bastion rest wont reach 1,2k DPS without some extreme mods, and still will be around 50-60km in Bastion so meh for not moving 3x Imperial Navy heatsink Core C-type LAR Em/Therm hardeners CPR II 100MN AB 3 Tracking computers 4 MP II, Conflag 2x CCC II 1239 DPS, 30+20 range, (within orbit range of all sleepers except Sleepless Upholders, these have the worst tank of all sleeper BS so shoot them first) cap stable, tanks any C3 site except for FFRD. Having 12,500 base capacitor lets you do a lot. Swap the AB for a MJD if you really want, your tank won't be perfect without the ability to speedtank BS missiles and ****** Upholder tracking but it's still doable.

CCP Ytterbium C C P C C P Alliance 2633	Posted - 2013.09.05 14:24:00 - [2552] - Quote To quote this other post. CCP Ytterbium wrote: We haven't decided on anything regarding Marauders yet regarding web bonuses, remember until release this is an open discussion we're having. We will still be running internal tests on both proposed versions on the Marauder thread, as well as some other variations - so consider yourself warned if things evolve in the future. And by that we mean, Winter release is still quite some time away, we want to take our time to shape those things right, and see them on public testing before coming up with a final decision. Theory crafting is nice, but they also need to be put into practical situations.

Lloyd Roses Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 222	Posted - 2013.09.05 14:27:00 - [2553] - Quote wonders if people realize that with t2 resists, you don't need the repairamoutnbonus anymore... and that webs is kind of optional like the tractors. Still works fine neglecting those. Now actively requesting any faction / new faction willing to produce these:-áhttp://eohgames.com/labs/Ships/Vanir%20Federation%20Talos-á
Hayman Wakefield Trans-Stellar Salvage Shipping and Securities 8	Posted - 2013.09.05 14:29:00 - [2554] - Quote Given the last couple of balances have worked as : 1st iteration -people rage so gets changed to iteration 2, then some minor fitting tweaks and then release its a bit worrying that we will see these turned into that weird mismash you proposed earlier with some minor fitting changes.
MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 1275	Posted - 2013.09.05 14:30:00 - [2555] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: wonders if people realize that with t2 resists, you don't need the repairamoutnbonus anymore... and that webs is kind of optional like the tractors. Still works fine neglecting those. Yes because 90% kin resistance helps me defend against sansha amd blood raiders right? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request
Leats ELVE Industries Brothers of Tangra 0	Posted - 2013.09.05 14:31:00 - [2556] - Quote I just want to throw out something... why should i fly a Marauder when they get F***** in the ass? A Vindicator does all of its jobs by far better, i had someone in my corp who had a 1800dps Vindicator for ratting... In PvP Vindicators are also the best pick for BS sized ships afaik... And the whole standings still for 1 Min. without Logistic-support eliminates the possibility to use them in pvp anyways... I dont understand where this is going, why should i risk my incredible expensive ship for a rang bonus? I would use them in PvE if they would be usable as a nice Long range dps boat with Carrier like dps, but like this i dont see a scenario where the new Marauders would fit in. Correct me if i am wrong. ;D Greetings
Debora Tsung The Investment Bankers Guild 370	Posted - 2013.09.05 14:31:00 - [2557] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: To quote this other post. CCP Ytterbium wrote: We haven't decided on anything regarding Marauders yet regarding web bonuses, remember until release this is an open discussion we're having. We will still be running internal tests on both proposed versions on the Marauder thread, as well as some other variations - so consider yourself warned if things evolve in the future. And by that we mean, Winter release is still quite some time away, we want to take our time to shape those things right, and see them on public testing before coming up with a final decision. Theory crafting is nice, but they also need to be put into practical situations. I like that approach. :) @F&I crowd: GUYS, WHINE MORE! AND LOUDER! WE NEED THAT 30% BONUS BACK! There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance.
Lloyd Roses Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 222	Posted - 2013.09.05 14:32:00 - [2558] - Quote MeBiatch wrote: Lloyd Roses wrote: wonders if people realize that with t2 resists, you don't need the repairamoutnbonus anymore... and that webs is kind of optional like the tractors. Still works fine neglecting those. Yes because 90% kin resistance helps me defend against sansha amd blood raiders right? Then choose appropriate hull... It's not that hard. Now actively requesting any faction / new faction willing to produce these:-áhttp://eohgames.com/labs/Ships/Vanir%20Federation%20Talos-á
Debora Tsung The Investment Bankers Guild 370	Posted - 2013.09.05 14:35:00 - [2559] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: Then choose appropriate hull... It's not that hard. Lol, I'm sure once you're rich enough you won't need to refit anymore, you just have a ship for each possible fitting. And a backup. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance.
Ralph King-Griffin Var Foundation inc. 19	Posted - 2013.09.05 14:40:00 - [2560] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: To quote this other post. CCP Ytterbium wrote: We haven't decided on anything regarding Marauders yet regarding web bonuses, remember until release this is an open discussion we're having. We will still be running internal tests on both proposed versions on the Marauder thread, as well as some other variations - so consider yourself warned if things evolve in the future. And by that we mean, Winter release is still quite some time away, we want to take our time to shape those things right, and see them on public testing before coming up with a final decision. Theory crafting is nice, but they also need to be put into practical situations. I Gota say man, I don't envy your position right now. what's that saying "Hell hath no fury like the scorn of a sp/isk invested mmorpg community" If in doubt...do...excessively.

Grarr Dexx Snuff Box Urine Alliance 252	Posted - 2013.09.05 14:45:00 - [2561] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: To quote this other post. CCP Ytterbium wrote: We haven't decided on anything regarding Marauders yet regarding web bonuses, remember until release this is an open discussion we're having. We will still be running internal tests on both proposed versions on the Marauder thread, as well as some other variations - so consider yourself warned if things evolve in the future. And by that we mean, Winter release is still quite some time away, we want to take our time to shape those things right, and see them on public testing before coming up with a final decision. Theory crafting is nice, but they also need to be put into practical situations. Yes, truly the epitome of practicality, giving a web strength bonus to a ship that also has a role bonus to a module that jumps you 100km in any direction.
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 1501	Posted - 2013.09.05 14:48:00 - [2562] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Now thigns are better.. Eve is a PVP GAME, all ships that bear weapons should be PVP ships as much as possible. It is a sandbox, and by that right I can say F*U to your PVP. I don't think asking for one solid, dedicated PVE ship in the hordes of PVP ships out there. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement
Ravasta Helugo Republic University Minmatar Republic 147	Posted - 2013.09.05 14:48:00 - [2563] - Quote Debora Tsung wrote: CCP Ytterbium wrote: To quote this other post. CCP Ytterbium wrote: We haven't decided on anything regarding Marauders yet regarding web bonuses, remember until release this is an open discussion we're having. We will still be running internal tests on both proposed versions on the Marauder thread, as well as some other variations - so consider yourself warned if things evolve in the future. And by that we mean, Winter release is still quite some time away, we want to take our time to shape those things right, and see them on public testing before coming up with a final decision. Theory crafting is nice, but they also need to be put into practical situations. I like that approach. :) @F&I crowd: GUYS, WHINE MORE! AND LOUDER! WE NEED THAT 30% BONUS BACK! I'm right there with ya! And the 7.5% rep bonus back, too! And to hell with the incursion bears ****** web.
sten mattson Virtus Crusade Curatores Veritatis Alliance 52	Posted - 2013.09.05 14:49:00 - [2564] - Quote web bonus is back! me likey! now the only thing you need for the paladin to be perfect is to roll the capacitor capacity bonus into the hull like you did with the regular apoc years ago and put in a useful bonus! im a little sad to see the armor tanking bonus go , since this will mean that the hyperion will be the only battleship with that particular bonus, but since t2 resists are back i cant really complain. IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!!
Moneta Curran Lunar Industries Ltd 174	Posted - 2013.09.05 14:52:00 - [2565] - Quote Please diversify more. I don't like the idea of a web bonus on shield tankers. Thanks.
Yun Kuai Justified Chaos 52	Posted - 2013.09.05 14:55:00 - [2566] - Quote @CCP I have a question regarding the weapons timer on the bastion module and how this will effect Maruaders. Currently, the mini-siege cycle is 60secs. Does this weapons timer that comes from activating the module mean that I would have to wait an additional minute of "deaggressing" after the mini-siege cycle ends before I could jump through the gate or dock up? If this is the case, this will need to be looked at. If I'm forced in a situation where I need to deaggress from the "super awesome" repping of bastion mode because there are to many people or to much incoming DPS, I'm now forced to wait another minute outside of bastion mode.... I believe there is some missing logic there. Especially when you consider the fact that you took away the native repping bonuses from the hulls. Just for some basic comparison, my dual rep armor BS (no native rep hull bonuses)with legion boost and strong exile booster couldn't tank a Cruise phoon, sleipnir, prophecy, 2 caracals, and gate guns. Now you expect me to take a 1bil BS so I can lose that due to lol active tanking and reduced boost efficiency. Round 3 is waiting CCP, go find it and bring it to us so we can give you guys some praise.
Silvetica Dian Manson Family 71	Posted - 2013.09.05 14:56:00 - [2567] - Quote What this thread most reveals is the need for a dislike button. Likes received, dislikes received and net like/dislikes. Even including Harry's posting this thread has been the one where i wanted it most.
Unseen Spectre Shadow Eye Ops 36	Posted - 2013.09.05 15:01:00 - [2568] - Quote I have not followed this thread very closely, but one thing I noted is that it seems contradictionary to make the ship's sub-Warp speed slower while giving them a bonus to webs which only has a limited range of 10 km for T2 webs - should they not be faster to utilize this bonus efficiently?
Kaeden Dourhand T.O.R. 8	Posted - 2013.09.05 15:04:00 - [2569] - Quote Yun Kuai wrote: my dual rep armor BS (no native rep hull bonuses)with legion boost and strong exile booster couldn't tank a Cruise phoon, sleipnir, prophecy, 2 caracals, and gate guns. Yes, this is completely relevant. cough As for feedback on the most recent proposal; what the hell are you doing devs? As someone mentioned before, take a step back and ask yourself what you're trying to achieve with this rebelance and these ships, because at the moment it is all over the place with bonuses/roles/features that do not mesh well, or at all. Specific feedback on the bastion module? What the hell? I didn't consider it worthwhile at the first iteration, but with the resist removal of the 2nd iteration there is EVEN LESS incentive to use it. immobility and loss of RR potential for 25% range and boost to local rep? Thanks, but no thanks. As for specific ship feedback, the only ship I can talk about is the paladin that I currently fly. And the current proposal is a hit in the face for the paladin. I'm not even talking about the incompatibility of web + range of bastion, but I am talking about the loss of the tanking boost for an (arguably) useless web boost, in exchange for t2 resists. Not a bad trade a lot of people say, but the paladin's t2 resists do nothing to help against its common missioning enemies (EM/therm). This forces more slot allocation for the tank to reach the same local rep potential outside of bastion mode (which most likely is no longer possible).
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction 485	Posted - 2013.09.05 15:11:00 - [2570] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: Kagura Nikon wrote: Now thigns are better.. Eve is a PVP GAME, all ships that bear weapons should be PVP ships as much as possible. It is a sandbox, and by that right I can say F*U to your PVP. I don't think asking for one solid, dedicated PVE ship in the hordes of PVP ships out there. its PVP GAME!!! What you want is IRRELEVANT regarding that. Sure you can try to balance ships for PVE, but not at the cost of makign them USELES for PVP

Ralph King-Griffin Var Foundation inc. 19	Posted - 2013.09.05 15:14:00 - [2571] - Quote Silvetica Dian wrote: What this thread most reveals is the need for a dislike button. Likes received, dislikes received and net like/dislikes. Even including Harry's posting this thread has been the one where i wanted it most. The 'one-line bad idea' thread If in doubt...do...excessively.
Karak Bol Crepuscular 104	Posted - 2013.09.05 15:14:00 - [2572] - Quote The first iteration was more interesting, more inovative. Webs und everything is just, making marauders more boring. I vote for 30% resis and rep.
Kaeden Dourhand T.O.R. 9	Posted - 2013.09.05 15:16:00 - [2573] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: its PVP GAME!!! What you want is IRRELEVANT regarding that. Sure you can try to balance ships for PVE, but not at the cost of makign them USELES for PVP I heard that if you use more exclamation marks and more capitals your message gets across better and people are more inclined to agree with you.
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction 485	Posted - 2013.09.05 15:17:00 - [2574] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: To quote this other post. CCP Ytterbium wrote: We haven't decided on anything regarding Marauders yet regarding web bonuses, remember until release this is an open discussion we're having. We will still be running internal tests on both proposed versions on the Marauder thread, as well as some other variations - so consider yourself warned if things evolve in the future. And by that we mean, Winter release is still quite some time away, we want to take our time to shape those things right, and see them on public testing before coming up with a final decision. Theory crafting is nice, but they also need to be put into practical situations. And that is exaclty what we are asking. THe mini siege , MJD and range bonus is in NO way pratical with web streght bonus, unless you add some web range bonus. Change that web bonus into an extra damage bonus and the ship gets focused and logical.
Elsa Nietchize School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 39	Posted - 2013.09.05 15:19:00 - [2575] - Quote I guess my question comes down to how does this change affect my current fit? Quote: [Kronos, Unnamed loadout] Corpus C-Type Large Armor Repairer Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 425mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Hybrid Collision Accelerator I Large Anti-Thermic Pump I Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 This gives me 830ish dps out to 90km. Somewhat reasonable locking times and fantastic tracking at close range. This setup also gives an 854dps tank against serpentis. T2 resists mean that I may only have to use 1 resistance mod and can fit a TE in the low. This frees up a mid slot. The less sucky scan resolution may mean I don't need the sensor booster but I doubt it. So now I have a free med for a web, maybe? More likely a 100AB or 100MWD. I really don't know what CCP is trying to do with the change. T2 resists are welcome. I'm glad I'm not losing my web bonus. The tractor beam bonus is still pants-on-head ********. Close range weapons still aren't viable but they're getting closer. The only stance I can honestly take is "wait and see".
Jowen Datloran Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 634	Posted - 2013.09.05 15:19:00 - [2576] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: Kagura Nikon wrote: Now thigns are better.. Eve is a PVP GAME, all ships that bear weapons should be PVP ships as much as possible. It is a sandbox, and by that right I can say F*U to your PVP. I don't think asking for one solid, dedicated PVE ship in the hordes of PVP ships out there. its PVP GAME!!! What you want is IRRELEVANT regarding that. Sure you can try to balance ships for PVE, but not at the cost of makign them USELES for PVP PvP takes so many shapes and forms in Eve-O that your point is pretty moot. Regardless, I can find many better ships to go pew-pew'ing in that the proposed Marauder. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á
Ejderdisi Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion 5	Posted - 2013.09.05 15:20:00 - [2577] - Quote Ok we will have new fleet doctrines now with Marauders!! Well they have a useless web bonus but who cares. Btw didnt you guys in CCP just killed %5 resists to %4 to make RR'ing a little bit less powerful. Btw a cruise golem fleet will kill anything while tanking like BOSS!! no need to use any other BS for fleets. Change the web bonus back into something damage bonus for the last nail in the coffin
Lloyd Roses Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 222	Posted - 2013.09.05 15:20:00 - [2578] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: Kagura Nikon wrote: Now thigns are better.. Eve is a PVP GAME, all ships that bear weapons should be PVP ships as much as possible. It is a sandbox, and by that right I can say FU to your PVP. I don't think asking for one solid, dedicated PVE ship in the hordes of PVP ships out there. Thinking about that, PvE appears to require a mixture of mobility, longrange damage-application and sustained tank. It should be well possible to achieve those traits given the tools as they stand right there. Also want to mention that even with those latest changes, Marauders still won't be contested as c4-blitzers and quite viable to run highclass DEDs. Imo their L4 performance is way less important compared to the specific capabilities in incursions/null/whs, and over there they just rock on a different level with the still remaining defenses, factoring in the bastionthingytransformermoduleTM. As a positive sideeffect, the highslotallocation can be used not only for tractors/salvagers, but also for highgrade utility. The Tractorrange should be well enough for most situations, if anything, add a salvagemodule-cycletime reduction to round up the traits. I wouldn't see any issues with having a twosided rolemodifier, as in MJD cooldown/bastionuse for pvp, and tractorrange/salvagecycles for the relics of pve. Edit: Lots of contradiction (longrange/webbonus/bastion at all/tractorboni) make for a wonderful, not allt o specialised platform leaving out a lot of playstyle to the way you fit. Me like. Looking forward to updates! Now actively requesting any faction / new faction willing to produce these:-á*http://eohgames.com/labs/Ships/Vanir%20Federation%20Talos-á
Mina Sebiestar Mactabilis Simplex Cursus 413	Posted - 2013.09.05 15:21:00 - [2579] - Quote Random not thinked thru idea overheating bastion module further reduce circle time by minor amount. Also would like to know is animation will affect bastion deployment or is it click=boost. http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
Alizebeth Phoenix Gothic Pioneers Shadow of Honor. 4	Posted - 2013.09.05 15:26:00 - [2580] - Quote dafuq? what am i supposed to do with the web bonus on my Golem? Right now i use the webs with Kronos and Paladin, especially the Kronos because of rails. But i can not see much use on the Golem. And as i understand the Bastion Mode till now it wants me to jump away, go to bastion and fight long range. So why the hell would i want a web? Even if you resist on giving web bonus... i want a range bonus so i really can use the web! But to be honest for me this change is even more bad than the whole change itself. I really expected something usefull for me as mission runner and this is not! Of course i will give it a try but as someone who has and uses all 4 marauders i am extremely disappointed, really was expecting something else. When i want to do some pvp there are so many other ships (also the new balanced BS), that i would never use a marauder... they are for missioning, at least till now.



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