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        | Author | 
        Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 35 post(s) | 
      
      
      
          
          raven666wings 
          Cyber Chaos Crew
  206
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.14 12:58:00 -
          [661] - Quote 
          
           
          raven666wings wrote:Seriously though, Guard already sorted out and aligned the previous matter to a point where discussion and suggestions can be made to determine the rewards given to community services and fansites.  The prizes still need to be settled and the guidelines that will qualify the entities to receive them still have to be written and publicly disclosed, but that matter is partially out of the way. However the matter regarding Somer Blink's use of isk tokens to reward those who buy a GCT through their referral system still needs to be addressed by Guard and/or other CCP representatives.  We are aware that if CCP wants to they can turn a blind eye on this matter and interpret and/or change the game's EULA and specifically the rules of conduct about selling game currency/items for real money in a way that it won't make Somer Blink's actions illegitimate.  This will however further confirm their favoritism and support of Somer Blink's actions within the sandbox and the game, so the question about whether other players will be able to engage in similar conducts still stands and requires their pronunciation on it so that an agreement can be aligned in the same way that it was for the community services and fansite rewards issue. Gogela wrote:
 
 
  ATTN: CCP Guard
 
 
  I would like to put up a link on a web property I own that sells 30, 60, and 90 day GTCs via affiliate link. I would like the same return on referrals that SOMER gets, and I want to offer 150, 300, and 450 million isk to players who purchase GTCs via my affiliate link. Is this possible?  
  BUMP | 
      
      
      
          
          Din Chao 
           386
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.14 15:54:00 -
          [662] - Quote 
          
           
          Just posting this again, as there have been more than 10 pages since I posted this without any CCP response.
 
 Din Chao wrote:Sorry if this question has already been answered (though based on what I've read of this thread, nothing of substance has actually been answered):
  What kind of transparency, if any, has SOMER Blink given to CCP as to how their "lottery" actually works?  How does CCP know for certain that SOMER is running a legitimate operation and what guarantee do you have that they will continue running this way in the future? Is CCP privy to the specifics of the transactions between SOMER and the players? Who at CCP is working with SOMER to ensure that they are not cheating on their lotteries and/or stealing from the players? Does SOMER random = random?
  If these are questions that can't be answered, than how can CCP officially endorse SOMER Blink, effectively legitimizing what may or may not be legitimate?
  You say SOMER was selected because of EVE Vegas, and SOMER being a gambling site. But the state of Nevada has a Gaming Commission, a government entity, whose job is to guarantee, to the best of their ability, the "fairness" of gambling in their state. Does CCP have such oversight?
 
  EDIT: I see now that some of these questions/concerns were brought up in the FIRST reply to this thread and were completely ignored. I won't be holding my breath for a response...  
  | 
      
      
      
          
          Gogela 
          Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
  2687
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.14 16:54:00 -
          [663] - Quote 
          
           
          Din Chao wrote:Just posting this again, as there have been more than 10 pages since I posted this without any CCP response.
   
  I think I would need a weekend away from the angry internet spaceship nerds from time to time too... 
  Also I'm not sure we're going to get an immediate response to some of these questions because I don't think CCP has the answer right now. They're probably going to want to have a power lunch over a few of these...
 Don't drink and fly expensive spaceships. Also: don't drink, fly expensive spaceships, and just start shooting random people at Jita 4-4. That's all I know about EvE.  | 
      
      
      
          
          Din Chao 
           389
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.14 17:13:00 -
          [664] - Quote 
          
           
          Gogela wrote:Din Chao wrote:Just posting this again, as there have been more than 10 pages since I posted this without any CCP response.
   I think I would need a weekend away from the angry internet spaceship nerds from time to time too...  Also I'm not sure we're going to get an immediate response to some of these questions because I don't think CCP has the answer right now. They're probably going to want to have a power lunch over a few of these...   No, don't get me wrong, I understand it was the weekend. But it's Monday now, and I don't think Columbus Day is observed in Iceland (though, I guess it could be another holiday, I haven't looked). The point was, I really would like these questions answered, and I didn't want them buried in the threadnaught.
  As for the answers to my questions, these are all questions that they should have been able to answer BEFORE they decided to endorse SOMER. So, if they still need time to think about it, they're doing it wrong. | 
      
      
      
          
          raven666wings 
          Cyber Chaos Crew
  210
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.14 17:25:00 -
          [665] - Quote 
          
           
          By now they already realised the mess they got themselves into and are assessing the possible solutions for it, taking the time to choose the one that best fits their interests before they make another announcement. We might have to wait a bit. | 
      
      
      
          
          Kate stark 
           621
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.14 17:25:00 -
          [666] - Quote 
          
           
          Kate stark wrote:monday tomorrow. wonder if CCP will have anything new to say to us.  
  home from work and nope.
  not sure what i was expecting, really. Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this. | 
      
      
      
          
          The Legendary Soldier 
          Interworld Venom
  252
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.14 17:37:00 -
          [667] - Quote 
          
           
           Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, ignoring hundreds of angry posts shows a startling level of arrogance and ignorance.
  Over the weekend is one thing, but it must be past close of business in Iceland now, and they are clearly hoping we will just forget about it. Need to place a high-sec POS? Premade corps for sale, or your corp's standings boosted. Trading since January 2012. Many corps sold/boosted - see my thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63128&find=unread | 
      
      
      
          
          Gogela 
          Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
  2689
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.14 17:58:00 -
          [668] - Quote 
          
           
          Din Chao wrote:Gogela wrote:Din Chao wrote:Just posting this again, as there have been more than 10 pages since I posted this without any CCP response.
   I think I would need a weekend away from the angry internet spaceship nerds from time to time too...  Also I'm not sure we're going to get an immediate response to some of these questions because I don't think CCP has the answer right now. They're probably going to want to have a power lunch over a few of these...  No, don't get me wrong, I understand it was the weekend. But it's Monday now, and I don't think Columbus Day is observed in Iceland (though, I guess it could be another holiday, I haven't looked). The point was, I really would like these questions answered, and I didn't want them buried in the threadnaught. As for the answers to my questions, these are all questions that they should have been able to answer BEFORE they decided to endorse SOMER. So, if they still need time to think about it, they're doing it wrong.   Well... CCP isn't a startup anymore, and you get diminishing returns as a company grows. Sometimes the right and left hands are moving independently. Affiliate programs are probably run by marketing, so I doubt many of the Devs are clued in to every aspect of what they are up to. I mean if your job is to make internet spaceship skins, why would you care or bother about how 3rd party sites are advertising? I mean outside of how your art is being displayed in a banner ad or something, why would you care? I sure wouldn't. So these different wings of CCP are probably trying to figure out, collectively, what is going on before they can even comment on anything. There will be meetings. There may be doughnuts at those meetings. Then an email will be sent. Then a follow up email asking if the first email was received. Then a confirmation email sent back that confirms receipt of the first email but without an answer to the question it contained. Then another one sent back asking that the question in the first email be addressed. Then a reply asking that the first email be resent because it was accidentally deleted...
 Don't drink and fly expensive spaceships. Also: don't drink, fly expensive spaceships, and just start shooting random people at Jita 4-4. That's all I know about EvE.  | 
      
      
      
          
          Josef Djugashvilis 
          Acme Mining Corporation
  1438
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.14 18:44:00 -
          [669] - Quote 
          
           
          I would suggest that CCP have read the player feedback on this issue and that they are formulating a response to past events and how they intend to proceed in the future.
  It is better that they take their time and get it right, rather than posting something just for the sake of posting. This is not a signature. | 
      
      
      
          
          adarma 
          Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
  9
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.14 18:54:00 -
          [670] - Quote 
          
           
          Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I would suggest that CCP have read the player feedback on this issue and that they are formulating a response to past events and how they intend to proceed in the future.
  It is better that they take their time and get it right, rather than posting something just for the sake of posting.  
 
  Well, at least they can post just what you are saying then... that they are formulating something and not ignoring this. | 
      
      
      
          
          Din Chao 
           392
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.14 19:41:00 -
          [671] - Quote 
          
           
          Gogela wrote:Well... CCP isn't a startup anymore, and you get diminishing returns as a company grows. Sometimes the right and left hands are moving independently. Affiliate programs are probably run by marketing, so I doubt many of the Devs are clued in to every aspect of what they are up to. I mean if your job is to make internet spaceship skins, why would you care or bother about how 3rd party sites are advertising? I mean outside of how your art is being displayed in a banner ad or something, why would you care? I sure wouldn't. So these different wings of CCP are probably trying to figure out, collectively, what is going on before they can even comment on anything. There will be meetings. There may be doughnuts at those meetings. Then an email will be sent. Then a follow up email asking if the first email was received. Then a confirmation email sent back that confirms receipt of the first email but without an answer to the question it contained. Then another one sent back asking that the question in the first email be addressed. Then a reply asking that the first email be resent because it was accidentally deleted...   Mmmmmm... doughnuts...
  You're right. I work for one of the largest companies in the world and I've seen simple customer service emails go through 15 people before they get to the person that can take care of the problem. But I also know CCP, and if you don't keep up the hounding, they tend to drift. | 
      
      
      
          
          Steve Ronuken 
          Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
  1943
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.14 20:31:00 -
          [672] - Quote 
          
           
          Considering that this is about policy, I'm really not surprised responses are slow. Creating policy, in any organisation over a handful of people, takes time. 
  In part because it's not just writing it. It's also the processes to manage that policy. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter | 
      
      
      
          
          Maximilian Akora 
          It's just business.
  61
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.14 23:30:00 -
          [673] - Quote 
          
           
          You don't need policy, policy is for people who lack common sense and/or a decent understanding of the subject at hand. All you need is someone at CCP who understands EVE and its history to realise that CCP can't play footsie with any political or for profit entity within EVE. It's not difficult, you don't need rules and you don't need to have an IQ of 135 for it.
  And if there's an "if in doubt" moment going on then CCP created a think tank a while back to help them with these "difficult" issues, it's called the CSM. I'm fairly sure the vast majority of current and past CSM members would within one second realise the possible "oops" this whole thign would turn in to, and suggest to CCP to refrain from these kinds of actions. | 
      
      
      
          
          Money Makin Mitch 
          Paid in Full
  106
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.15 00:19:00 -
          [674] - Quote 
          
           
          keep their feet to the fire. we can't let them get away with this   | 
      
      
      
          
          Cameron Freerunner 
          Long Jump.
  62
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.15 02:03:00 -
          [675] - Quote 
          
           
          The wait continues. 
  Time keeps on slippin', slippin', slippin' into the Future: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zT4Y-QNdto
  Most likely outcome, they all Take the Money and Run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz0NKWpRO6g
 
  | 
      
      
      
          
          StuckAtTheLock 
          Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
  7
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.15 02:55:00 -
          [676] - Quote 
          
           
          Welp, my account lapses in 24 hrs. If ccp responds after then - I won't be able to give any input. 
  Thanks for taking... coming on 1.5 weeks to respond to this fiasco ccp.
  Hopefully there are plenty that will keep the pressure on about the blatant RMT and favoritism business because as it currently stands I won't be coming back. | 
      
      
      
          
          Argus Sorn 
          Star Frontiers Dirt Nap Squad.
  309
  
          
                 | 
        Posted - 2013.10.15 04:32:00 -
          [677] - Quote 
          
           
          Funny someone pointed out the RMT thing a year ago and nothing was done:
  https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=130803&p=2
  I have cancelled every alt account over this. I am in a tough spot with my main because I have a corp full of people I have to think about. Trust me, if I did not, I'd be done with CCP tonight. I am fed up with CCP favoritism.
  This is RMT, and SOMER should not be allowed to do it. The fact CCP would ignore it is shameful and we deserve an explanation and for this to be addressed once and for all. | 
      
      
      
          
          Shai 'Hulud 
           72
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.15 05:16:00 -
          [678] - Quote 
          
           
          I'm just glad I never got around to ordering the new collector's edition  
  Bad enough my accounts had all been paid up just a few days before CCP started "blowing" (see sig.)   All the sand has blown away... now it's just a box. | 
      
      
      
          
          Kate stark 
           621
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.15 05:25:00 -
          [679] - Quote 
          
           
          Steve Ronuken wrote:Considering that this is about policy, I'm really not surprised responses are slow. Creating policy, in any organisation over a handful of people, takes time. 
  In part because it's not just writing it. It's also the processes to manage that policy.  
  lack of communication was the root cause of the issue...
  an update isn't too much to ask for.
  "we're still working on it" takes 30 seconds to type and would go a long way with the community. we don't want them to rush an answer, we merely want to be informed of what is happening (if anything). Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this. | 
      
      
      
          
          Deka Ekato 
          Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
  74
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.15 05:29:00 -
          [680] - Quote 
          
           
          As the EveVegas 2013 event is on this weekend, I suspect that CCP will not respond to this issue until after the event.
  Why? I suspect that CCP still wants to support and "cozy up" to Somer and maintain their relationship together.
  CCP, if you actually do this, well this will look extremely bad for you.
  CCP, for the sake of what little integrity you have left, you have to come to terms that your relationship with Somer is over. Cause, by disassociating yourself from Somer will be only a small but vital part to fixing this issue.
  Somer is a scam. Somer deals in RMT. CCP needs to investigate and audit them. Somer being a means of financial revenue for CCP is over.
  CCP, there are many questions from many concerned and upset customers. They all need to be addressed and responded to.
  CCP, please provide us with a response on this issue before the weekend.
  Thanks. Deka. | 
      
      
      
          
          Argus Sorn 
          Star Frontiers Dirt Nap Squad.
  314
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.15 05:31:00 -
          [681] - Quote 
          
           
          Shai 'Hulud wrote:I'm just glad I never got around to ordering the new collector's edition   Bad enough my accounts had all been paid up just a few days before CCP started "blowing" (see sig.)    
 
  I bought the collector's edition. The USB hub will be good for something I guess. Or, maybe I can get enough for it on ebay to pay Chris Roberts for a "rear admiral" package. 
  If I am going to play a game with RMT'ing, might as well throw in with one that is as shamelessly blatant as Star Citizen. 
 
  As for your sig, I've updated a bit:
  "All the sand has blown away... now it's just a box... full of %*#$."
  (T-shirts anyone?) | 
      
      
      
          
          Vaerah Vahrokha 
          Vahrokh Consulting
  4398
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.15 07:19:00 -
          [682] - Quote 
          
           
          Argus Sorn wrote:
  I bought the collector's edition. The USB hub will be good for something I guess. Or, maybe I can get enough for it on ebay to pay Chris Roberts for a "rear admiral" package. 
 
 
  
 
  This is unlikely. I have got that read admiral package and had to shell out $275 to get it. It's unlikely you'll get so much with an hub thingie, expecially if you watch around and notice how EvE is despised everywhere (and thus it's collectibles). In SC there are whole threads about asking that the game WILL be different than EvE. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
  Twitter channel | 
      
      
      
          
          adarma 
          Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
  11
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.15 08:44:00 -
          [683] - Quote 
          
           
          Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Argus Sorn wrote:
  I bought the collector's edition. The USB hub will be good for something I guess. Or, maybe I can get enough for it on ebay to pay Chris Roberts for a "rear admiral" package. 
 
 
  This is unlikely.  I have got that read admiral package and had to shell out $275 to get it. It's unlikely you'll get so much with an hub thingie, expecially if you watch around and notice how EvE is despised everywhere (and thus it's collectibles). In SC there are whole threads about asking that the game WILL be different than EvE.  
 
  I can understand people with a bad taste from EVE. For some, it can become a second job; a job for which some sweat hard to pay for and ironically on which some others milk easy isk and (very possibly) cash... which brings us back to the topic of the thread. | 
      
      
      
          
          Rob Crowley 
          State War Academy
  243
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.15 10:06:00 -
          [684] - Quote 
          
           
          Maximilian Akora wrote:You don't need policy, policy is for people who lack common sense and/or a decent understanding of the subject at hand. All you need is someone at CCP who understands EVE and its history to realise that CCP can't play footsie with any political or for profit entity within EVE. It's not difficult, you don't need rules and you don't need to have an IQ of 135 for it.  I can't really agree with you here. Common sense is a treacherous thing. Common sense might tell you that "rewarding players who contribute something extraordinary to the game" is a good thing. Because it certainly looks right and positive at first glance. Only when you think a bit more thoroughly about it you might find the inherent problems which can make it a negative thing.
  And it's not enough to have "someone at CCP who understands", because I'm sure there are a bunch of people there who understand why it wasn't a good thing to do. Problem is: they were not involved. And policy making is exactly this, involving as many people with as many arguments as possible to come up with a well thought-out policy instead of relying on individual employee's common sense. Of course this process takes some time, but I'm willing to wait a bit in order to get it done properly.
  That said, little updates are never a bad thing even if there's not much new to tell.
 
 Quote:And if there's an "if in doubt" moment going on then CCP created a think tank a while back to help them with these "difficult" issues, it's called the CSM. I'm fairly sure the vast majority of current and past CSM members would within one second realise the possible "oops" this whole thing would turn in to, and suggest to CCP to refrain from these kinds of actions.  Yeah, without a doubt CSM should've been consulted about this and should generally be consulted more often. I just have to point out that even some of the CSM members' common sense didn't tell them immediately that this incident was wrong. Some of them agreed it was wrong from the beginning, at least one of them listened to arguments and changed his opinion and AFAICS one of them still thinks everything done was alright. So even they might need some time and discussion sometimes to come up with the "right" common sense.   | 
      
      
      
          
          Miss Ladybird 
          Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
  44
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.15 10:39:00 -
          [685] - Quote 
          
           
          https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=285907&find=unread
 
  My thread got Ignore-locked.
 
  Apparently I am supposed to keep discussion in this thread, as if I might get an answer to my question?
 
  CAN I COPY SOMERBLINK?
 
 
  I want to sell ladybird credits for real life cash (like blink credits). The ladybird credits can be redeemed with me in game for ships.
 
  I just wanted to ask CCP before doing this as I know RMT is bannable
 
  PS: They seem to be ignoring and locking all threads that try to get to the bottom of why SOMERblink is being permitted to perpetuate a RMT business. How come? | 
      
      
      
          
          The Legendary Soldier 
          Interworld Venom
  252
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.15 11:08:00 -
          [686] - Quote 
          
           
          Miss Ladybird wrote:
  PS: They seem to be ignoring and locking all threads that try to get to the bottom of why SOMERblink is being permitted to perpetuate a RMT business. How come?
  
  ROCK > CCP < HARDPLACE
  or if you prefer...
  DEVIL > CCP < DEEP BLUE SEA Need to place a high-sec POS? Premade corps for sale, or your corp's standings boosted. Trading since January 2012. Many corps sold/boosted - see my thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63128&find=unread | 
      
      
      
          
          Rammix 
          TheMurk
  89
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.15 11:44:00 -
          [687] - Quote 
          
           
          Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:expecially if you watch around and notice how EvE is despised everywhere (and thus it's collectibles). In SC there are whole threads about asking that the game WILL be different than EvE.   I think you're getting it wrong. Those who don't like eve either have different taste for games (like elf-fans, or spacecraft-FPS fans) or don't even have enough brains/patience to get past the tutorials and find their place to have fun: Eve has a relatively high barrier to entry, that's a known fact, and in my opinion it's a good thing.
  Regarding spacecraft-FPS part, I'm waiting for the day when ccp connects Valkyrie to Eve (like piloted fighter drones etc), and for the day when they introduce WIS + ruined station exploration. OpenSUSE 12.2, wine 1.5 | 
      
      
      
          
          Argus Sorn 
          Star Frontiers Dirt Nap Squad.
  317
  
          
                 | 
        Posted - 2013.10.15 11:51:00 -
          [688] - Quote 
          
           
           First I agree that there needs to be a policy, as the mistake in the first place is to rely on "common sense". I work in the medical field, and we have risk management folks and institutional ethics folks who's very job is to approve of certain relationships with other organizations to be sure no conflicts of interest exist. Clearly CCP also needs someone to review these sorts of things from an ethical standpoint. That requires not only policy but a department of folks which they may or may not have. The CSM can HELP, but remember that 'popular' opinion may not always equate to 'ethically right' (such as CCP Guard's assertion that they were correct in what they did due to the popularity of SOMERblink).Ethical clarity does not, unfortunately, come naturally to some folks - and to be fair some issues can be complicated. 
  As for the rock and a hard place - this isn't so difficult. The fact is, that what comes hard in ethics is not necessarily deciding what is right, but simply doing what you decide. The answers here are easy - acting on them them is only hard if CCP feels intimidated by SOMERblink. But the fact is, they are RMT'ing and they should be dealt with the same as any other RMT group. CCP needs to remain "above the fray" or they cannot be trusted to properly adjudicate their own game. It isn't difficult, you just need to do it.
 
  "Honor isn't about making the right choices. It's about dealing with the consequences." - Midori Koto
 
  "The moment you lose your honor, that's when your learn the hard way. Your choice, ALWAYS come back around." - CCP
 
  | 
      
      
      
          
          Josef Djugashvilis 
          Acme Mining Corporation
  1443
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.15 12:20:00 -
          [689] - Quote 
          
           
          'Common sense', how you just 'know' the world works when you are 18.
  I think that the length of time CCP is taking to respond, is an indication that they are talking all the relevant issues very seriously.
  Also, capital punishment is very popular with the masses in the UK, - it's common sense, innit? - this does not make it right. This is not a signature. | 
      
      
      
          
          Sal Landry 
          School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
  96
  
          
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        Posted - 2013.10.15 12:56:00 -
          [690] - Quote 
          
           
          Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I think that the length of time CCP is taking to respond, is an indication that they are talking all the relevant issues very seriously.  
  And I think they've decided to let this entire issue quietly die and never speak of it again, now that the post frequency about it has diminished. | 
      
      
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