As you point out, they have been talking about walking in stations since 2006. Which is well before the micro-transactions business model was in use. In 2006 people would have laughed at you for talking about selling in game items for real money. So they couldn't have proposed WiS just for the purpose of selling us micro-transaction. Think before you post man.

It's a very nice a promising start, but the state that we have in EvE today is awful.

When you say "People weren't mad about Incarna, they were mad about microtransactions" you chose to overlook the fact that the only reason Incarna was developed in the first place was as an environment to show off your microtransactions.

CCP sold you a bucket of empty promises and hype about immersion and social environments and corp offices to mask the reality that all they were providing were catwalks for you to parade around in your monocles and space shoes after paying for the same game twice, and they were so locked into that goal that they released the NeX Store and Captain's Quarters even when every other promise made for Incarna had fallen by the wayside. Amazingly, some of you are so easily fooled that you're still buying into that hype today, long after the charade has collapsed in flames and what work has been done on WiS since then is the gameplay concepts that should have been in development back in 2006.

You are moving the goal posts.

First it was; Theres no microtransactions before 2006
Then; Theres no major game using a lot of microtransactions before 2006
Now its; a popular largely micro-transaction based game around in 2006

All I said was that you were wrong on the first count
However, after a little research I find you are wrong on the other two as well

While I actually support all of your ideas, I have to raise a slight argument.

If you considered all of the above implemented as a stand alone game, as "EvE - Life in Stations" or such.

I don't think you'd find enough supporters.

Partly because a solid chunk of current EvE players would scream "WHERE'S THE SPACESHIPS!" but also because players who really want what's was described can find that in several other games.

Could any of the above be added without considerable amount of resources invested, fine, but I don't that's possible.

Since I am of the opinion that the current state of 'Avatar' engine in EvE is nowhere near able to provide the above it has to be considered almost as a new game.

Don't mix what were CCP's attempts vs what the players wanted or want.

CCP has been free to try with WiS + Aurum, golden ammo, $1000 pants, MTs and freeware gutting licensing and likewise we have been free to stick the huge middle finger.

That's market 101 for you.

Now the ball is in CCP's court and they'll decide what / if to do knowing a bit more about big fingers.

You are moving the goal posts.

The idea that CCP decided to make content specifically for a business model that was either not in use, or had no noteworthy games at the time is ludicrous.

He said that Incarna was developed for the purpose of introducing micro-transaction. The idea for everything Incarna was leading up to was thought up before 2006. The idea that CCP decided to make content specifically for a business model that was either not in use, or had no noteworthy games at the time is ludicrous.

Exactly!

So why are you suggesting that no such thing existed!?

It HAD to exist and within literally SECONDS of you making it clear you believed that this concept was not in existance in 2006 I found a game from 2005 that had a solid player base and was micro transaction based!

But no its okay, I must be lying because this argument is so much fun for me...

Perhaps the way to go is an Eve online expansion pack with an increased monthly subscription to pay for it. Undock, enter the CQ walk to the door and click the red button and the client loads the additional pack. That way people who don't want it and don't want to pay for it don't have to.

So why are you suggesting that no such thing existed!?

It HAD to exist and within literally SECONDS of you making it clear you believed that this concept was not in existance in 2006 I found a game from 2005 that had a solid player base and was micro transaction based!

But no its okay, I must be lying because this argument is so much fun for me...

As you point out, they have been talking about walking in stations since 2006. Which is well before the micro-transactions business model was in use in EvE.

In 2006 people would have laughed at you for talking about selling in game items for real money In EvE.

the entire argument we just had completely irrelevant as neither of us understood what the other meant in the first place.

Would it really?

It's been used by several studios, to varying effect.

I don't think it will work for EvE.

And that's down to my earlier analysis, EvE - Life in Stations, wouldn't sell well enough.

I beg to differ. But both sides are so entrenched their will be no convincing.

We've identified a fundamental disagreement in this thread already: some people think that the core of EVE is spaceships, some others think that the core of EVE is the sandbox and that spaceships are the medium through which the sandbox reaches us.

Of course, people in the former group are objectively wrong.

Have you even tried it?
It's very pretty but as a 3D engine goes it's plain bad.

It's a very nice a promising start, but the state that we have in EvE today is awful.

CCP will probably not answer in 3-5 years, but I'm quite sure that the state of the avatar engine currently used at the Georgia office isn't the one currently in the EvE client.

Well I really only have one suggestion - How can you take load off the development team, yet also introduce constant new avatar-content? Follow the example of places like IMVU and SL by seeding a derivable framework of items and allow players themselves to create the content such as rooms, clothes, items and accessories. Then go back to focussing on spaceships and let your community do the rest.

TTP: 0.0001 seconds.

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Transgender Telepathic People?

Thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura?

I like the WiS stuff but at this point they need to focus on inspace things.

Time to [male sexual organ] GÇö the completely scientific measure of how much freedom any player-driven content creation mechanic provides and how much that creativity therefore has to be restricted.