CCP clearly said in a recent statement that EVE is, in fact a game about internet spaceships, and so therein lies the primary development focus.
So don't wait up at night expecting WIS to arrive anytime soon. And on your latter question, not to promote another game, but i believe Star Citizen will have said walking in stations, or at least in your ship hangar.

Yup but they did spend 4 years of development on it... so that was just a complete waste then?

So it has been over two years since the fateful walking in stations expansion Incarna. I am wondering if it ever came out; who at CCP messed up the whole walking in stations idea that badly?

I think many of us remember back in 2007 the ten ton hammer video of CCP showing us a glimpse of walking in stations, it was gorgeous and we waited anxiously for 4 years to see this come out. What we got was completely different from what was shown to us before. It was not anything like we expected or was advertised, a total let down.

So who made the big decision to scrap the good walking in stations for what we have now? Why did CCP drop development of walking in stations when all they had to do was come out with what everyone was looking forward to...walking around a station. Being able to walk up to your ship and zoom out to see the awesome size comparison.

Do you know there are sci fi games coming out that are in beta right now that allow you to walk up to your ship? After ten years of EVE and two years of incarna, why cant the biggest sci fi game in the world still not let players walk up to their awesome ships? What are you doing wrong CCP?

Concerned customer.

So it has been over two years since the fateful walking in stations expansion Incarna. I am wondering if it ever came out; who at CCP messed up the whole walking in stations idea that badly?

I think many of us remember back in 2007 the ten ton hammer video of CCP showing us a glimpse of walking in stations, it was gorgeous and we waited anxiously for 4 years to see this come out. What we got was completely different from what was shown to us before. It was not anything like we expected or was advertised, a total let down.

So who made the big decision to scrap the good walking in stations for what we have now? Why did CCP drop development of walking in stations when all they had to do was come out with what everyone was looking forward to...walking around a station. Being able to walk up to your ship and zoom out to see the awesome size comparison.

Do you know there are sci fi games coming out that are in beta right now that allow you to walk up to your ship? After ten years of EVE and two years of incarna, why cant the biggest sci fi game in the world still not let players walk up to their awesome ships? What are you doing wrong CCP?

Concerned customer.

CCP clearly said in a recent statement that EVE is, in fact a game about internet spaceships, and so therein lies the primary development focus.
So don't wait up at night expecting WIS to arrive anytime soon. And on your latter question, not to promote another game, but i believe Star Citizen will have said walking in stations, or at least in your ship hangar.

The players did , whith their massive revotls, riots and demands that CCP scrapped the focus on incarna in favor of SPACE. CCP lost a LOT of costumers and only started gettign them back after they complied.

THey leaarned a lesson. Do not expect anything incarna related soon.

Yup but they did spend 4 years of development on it... so that was just a complete waste then?

So who made the big decision to scrap the good walking in stations for what we have now?

The players did , whith their massive revotls, riots and demands that CCP scrapped the focus on incarna in favor of SPACE. CCP lost a LOT of costumers and only started gettign them back after they complied.

THey leaarned a lesson. Do not expect anything incarna related soon.

Of course not, it was just part of their development for WoD, a game which has the potential to make CCP even more money that Dust!

EVE is dying

Eve's becoming the Nokia, Kodak of online games it needs a fresh look and quickly, Dust was always going to fail 80% of the player base said so, nobody listened.

Don't get me wrong I still love the game but it's more to do with friends, familiarity and the fact that it's still so large, but for how much longer? With the holidays things will pick up but there's unmistakably a gradual trend.

It's heart breaking, CCP are laying down in the road with a large bus (or two) hurtling towards it and it appears clueless as to how to pick itself up.

Have you used CQ?

Have you used CQ?

Highly unlikely they will make the same mistake twice. WiS needs a place in EVE, even if it's only a very small part of the game. Yes it's about spaceships, pew pew and all that BS, but for some it's also about the lore and immersion of EVE. And the worse thing is...CQ teases us constantly with "what could have been".

"Then just look at the hangar when you dock."

Not the same, never will be.

EVE radiates something other games fail to grasp. It's design and massive lore demand more then just spaceship fights. Hence the 2 other products of CCP. A WiS expansion that is properly implemented without damaging the economy or the precious internet spaceships would benefit the game allot, and finally attract new some new players to EVE.

Start small, ease into the process. Use lube, as some of the fanboys still are a bit butthurt from the last time.

Of course not, it was just part of their development for WoD, a game which has the potential to make CCP even more money that Dust!

One of the biggest issues was the speed of progress. Incarna took almost a year and was released with just one interior complete. It took them another expansion to get the other races done.

Then you must consider the fact that Incarna as it was delivered is unusable for its original design. Its simply too resource intensive for the majority of people to use if other people will be interacting on screen.

It was poorly conceived and executed. It would really be have to remade from scratch and I (along with many others) don't want to lose a another year to Barbie Dress-up in Space.

some people see it as just "dress up barbie" or "doesnt have anything to do with internet spaceships" they are wrong , there are customers (players) who want the immersion avatars bring, imagine a hangar with your ships parked in a row that you can walk up to and touch.... many people would love that.

yes of course keep expanding on an already great spaceship game but ccp seems to not realize they are going to lose customers if they do not tap into the avatar or walking in a station aspect of science fiction. especially if it allows for more game play such as trade shops and avatar interaction .

One of the biggest issues was the speed of progress. Incarna took almost a year and was released with just one interior complete. It took them another expansion to get the other races done.

Then you must consider the fact that Incarna as it was delivered is unusable for its original design. Its simply too resource intensive for the majority of people to use if other people will be interacting on screen.

It was poorly conceived and executed. It would really be have to remade from scratch and I (along with many others) don't want to lose a another year to Barbie Dress-up in Space.

Now they are still going wrong and pretend that they didn't needed incarna and thus it's OK to dismiss avatars and devote their efforts to developing three other games and god knows what apps.

As for losing customers, how many years has it been since Incarna failed to materialise? Exactly when is this mass exodus going to begin?

Well CCP is going to lose alot more players if they just ignore avatars and walking in stations because there are a great many players (i know of) who want that to be part of the game they play.

With competition coming, many will just go to the other games if CCP cant deliver. My point is, if one company can do a decent job with avatars and walking in station in BETA, why cant CCP do something decent for its customers who want walking in stations with their awesome internet spaceships?

As for losing customers, how many years has it been since Incarna failed to materialise? Exactly when is this mass exodus going to begin?

Yes, we'll lose all the people who look for avatar gameplay in games and currently sub to a game with no avatar gameplay. Might lose some married bachelors too.

OP doesn't ask "Why did WiS development stop?" as everyone posting in this thread seems to assume, he asks:



l2r

With competition coming....

Those developers whose games actually exist are answerable to this thing called reality, in which EVE going pure-spaceships-development actually brought people back to the game.

CCP Avatars are really great, there is soooo much potential in the walking in stations. If you compare EVE avatars to almost any other MMO out there, EVE blows them all away in detail and look. Polish up the movement a bit, add more features like already discussed and ... also add more options for your character look and clothing and you will have one heck of an avatar system in gaming. Sadly i think CCP has given up on it all, so sad.

Exactly, they brought people back. But they aren't drawing in new customers, and thus the PCU has been stagnating since Incarna, despite that CCP is spending more and more money in advertising.

And, do you guess what else is stagnating too? Interest in EVE.

They lost almost 1/3 of their players. IT was nto a few..w as enough that CCP had to lay off a large ammount of their workforce. IT was a clear statemernt.. focus on incarna and loose the whole game within a year.

Well CCP is going to lose alot more players if they just ignore avatars and walking in stations because there are a great many players (i know of) who want that to be part of the game they play.

"Focus on incarna" wasn't what caused the lay-offs. Poor management, unrealistic goals, making a games engine they didn't need (taking up content development time), releasing content that didn't work, terrible micro-transactions, removing current features that people liked and not delivering on what they said they were going to achieve is what caused lay offs. The dream of Walking in Stations had nothing to do with it.

When ever I see someone blame the WiS idea for CCP's problem, I see someone who is completely ignorant to what actually happened. Walking in stations, done well, would have been amazing. What CCP had planned to develope didn't lose them players. What they actually did, cost them players. That's a massive difference you are conveniently ignoring.

Good riddence then :P

WIS was a terrible idea that we all told CCP would be terrible when they announced it in the first place, turns out it was terrible, hate to say i told you so CCP, so the project was scrapped, they used that experience for other things like dust, if you have ever walked around in the pre-game lobby you will notice it feels pretty much identical to CQ but with generic clone troopers

I for one will not miss CQ if it were to be removed completely as the only time i see it is when i reinstall and have to disable CQ because its the default option, there were a couple of minor cool features CCP said they wanted with WIS but seeing as the base product failed we wont ever see those interesting features :P

So yeah, if you're going to quit because of no space barbie simulations then please feel free to do so, but before you quit, can i have your stuff?

Yup but they did spend 4 years of development on it... so that was just a complete waste then?

turns out it was terrible

well said... so does anyone know if CCP is going to revisit walking in stations? or is it dead for good

Also the lesson CCP should have taken from incarna is to never let whoever the lead designer of incarna touch anything with EVE again, he failed horribly. Put someone in there who knows how to get the job done right, if they don't know what to do, then talk to customers and get ideas. It should not be that hard.

some people see it as just "dress up barbie" or "doesnt have anything to do with internet spaceships" they are wrong

There are customers (players) who want the immersion avatars bring, imagine a hangar with your ships parked in a row that you can walk up to and touch.... many people would love that.

yes of course keep expanding on an already great spaceship game but ccp seems to not realize they are going to lose customers if they do not tap into the avatar or walking in a station aspect of science fiction. especially if it allows for more game play such as trade shops and avatar interaction .
do we have a csm that cares about this kind of stuff?

Holy ****. The arrogance in this statement is just amazing, other peoples opinions are GÇ£wrongGÇ¥? Its an opinion, I.E subjective.


There are also people who donGÇÖt want that, who want CCP to fix the myriad of problems that have existed for years.



I think CCP are fully aware of the markets and demographics they target their game at. Has it occurred to you that maybe, just maybe they have looked at the future of their own company regarding competition in their chosen field?
Given the development times required I would guess that theyGÇÖve looked at it decided that the rewards (keeping a minority of players happy) do not out way the costs (pissing off the majority of players)

Highly unlikely they will make the same mistake twice.

Well CCP is going to lose alot more players if they just ignore avatars and walking in stations because there are a great many players (i know of) who want that to be part of the game they play.

That's fine. If people can't live without wizard robes and dance emotes they shouldn't be playing Eve in the first place.

All the people who want WiS don't want those things, so your comment applies to no one. In which case, why bother posting it at all?

Well CCP is going to lose alot more players if they just ignore avatars and walking in stations because there are a great many players (i know of) who want that to be part of the game they play.

With competition coming, many will just go to the other games if CCP cant deliver. My point is, if one company can do a decent job with avatars and walking in station in BETA, why cant CCP do something decent for its customers who want walking in stations with their awesome internet spaceships?

They say they don't want those things but when they actually list what they do want wizard robes and dance emotes are actually less offensive. Roleplayers are the worst.

Your kind are the worst.

Of course not, it was just part of their development for WoD, a game which has the potential to make CCP even more money that Dust!

I can't quite communicate the feel I get from seeing posts saying this after having spent nearly a decade seeing posts saying this.

EVE can be something for all of us who love EVE, not just for pixel spaceship fans.

And there in a nutshell is the problem. Eve can be many things, but a development team can only focus on one thing at a time. In 2010 I remember CCP announcing there would be no development on any other aspect of the game other than WIS / Incarna for the next 18 months.

Sure they screwed up, but the real hatred for WIS is that everything else went out the window for an incredibly long time before CCP finally gave up on the project and that is why so many are against CCP trying to divert resources to it again.

To all those people talking about WiS that was almost complete and then arbitrarily thrown out to start again on a new engine. Rubbish! WiS failed, for whatever reason they couldn't get it working. They gave up on it. What we got was a face saving exercise, which failed to do even that. CCP are never going to work on it again, but after so much time and effort wasted, they are too embarrassed to admit it. That is why no CCP employee has commented on this thread.

CCP: Walk around in stations, pose, ERP, itll be fun and a nice test for WoD

Forums: Wah, complain, grissle, Saceship gaem, GrrCCP, ruiners, waste of time, Moar ships, less barbie, why you no listen CCP to customers

CCP: Ok


*Two Years Later *

CCP: Here, more ships, do more, modules, tactics, maybe even ares

Forums: OMG GrrCCP BLINK, ruiners, waste of time, where WiS??

CCP: sigh

Sure they screwed up, but the real hatred for WIS is that everything else went out the window for an incredibly long time before CCP finally gave up on the project and that is why so many are against CCP trying to divert resources to it again.

And there in a nutshell is the problem. Eve can be many things, but a development team can only focus on one thing at a time. In 2010 I remember CCP announcing there would be no development on any other aspect of the game other than WIS / Incarna for the next 18 months.

Sure they screwed up, but the real hatred for WIS is that everything else went out the window for an incredibly long time before CCP finally gave up on the project and that is why so many are against CCP trying to divert resources to it again.

To all those people talking about WiS that was almost complete and then arbitrarily thrown out to start again on a new engine. Rubbish! WiS failed, for whatever reason they couldn't get it working. They gave up on it. What we got was a face saving exercise, which failed to do even that. CCP are never going to work on it again, but after so much time and effort wasted, they are too embarrassed to admit it. That is why no CCP employee has commented on this thread.

And there in a nutshell is the problem. Eve can be many things, but a development team can only focus on one thing at a time. In 2010 I remember CCP announcing there would be no development on any other aspect of the game other than WIS / Incarna for the next 18 months.

Sure they screwed up, but the real hatred for WIS is that everything else went out the window for an incredibly long time before CCP finally gave up on the project and that is why so many are against CCP trying to divert resources to it again.

To all those people talking about WiS that was almost complete and then arbitrarily thrown out to start again on a new engine. Rubbish! WiS failed, for whatever reason they couldn't get it working. They gave up on it. What we got was a face saving exercise, which failed to do even that. CCP are never going to work on it again, but after so much time and effort wasted, they are too embarrassed to admit it. That is why no CCP employee has commented on this thread.

Reported for racism.

As above. You've had this explained to you before Rhes. Ignorance is not an argument.

shakes me head....

Then explain why people are *still* crying about WiS when CCP has made it very clear that Eve is about spaceships. Incarna was over two years ago...if you can't live with the state of avatar gameplay at this point why are you still playing?

The players did , whith their massive revotls, riots and demands that CCP scrapped the focus on incarna in favor of SPACE. CCP lost a LOT of costumers and only started gettign them back after they complied.

THey leaarned a lesson. Do not expect anything incarna related soon.

CCP: Walk around in stations, pose, ERP, itll be fun and a nice test for WoD

Forums: Wah, complain, grissle, Saceship gaem, GrrCCP, ruiners, waste of time, Moar ships, less barbie, why you no listen CCP to customers

CCP: Ok


*Two Years Later *

CCP: Here, more ships, do more, modules, tactics, maybe even ares

Forums: OMG GrrCCP BLINK, ruiners, waste of time, where WiS??

CCP: sigh

You supported the notion that CCP spent 18 months developing the CQs when they didn't, I dispelled the notion

I really hate revisionist history.

The statue shooting and unsubscribing was over the NeX, Pay-to-Win, and because Incarna didn't deliver enough avatar gameplay for the time it took to develop it.

No, you didn't.

[quote=Ila Dace]
Do you think we all just made up our memories of US screaming "it's a space ship game" to CCP and our CSM reps?

You going to support that statement? No. Know why? Because you can't. That's as much talking to you as I can stand today.

i really do hate it when i accidentally press the captains quarters tbh

WiS types are delusional.

They say they don't want those things but when they actually list what they do want wizard robes and dance emotes are actually less offensive. Roleplayers are the worst.

Don't assume you speak for others. You don't.

No we hold on to the subject because CCP is doing the same. There is no definitive NO WiS, and here in lies the problem and why some of us keep bringing it up. Oh and the fact that ALLOT of people want to see it happen of course.

Roleplayers are bad.

Then explain why people are *still* crying about WiS when CCP has made it very clear that Eve is about spaceships. Incarna was over two years ago...if you can't live with the state of avatar gameplay at this point why are you still playing?

The arguments in favor of avatars still are the same now as they were in 2011:

-expand EVE beyond its "cult" niche

We want CCP to continue with internet spaceship fixes in this internet spaceship game.

The arguments in favor of avatars still are the same now as they were in 2011:

- provide a immersive New Player Experience
- improve player attachment to the game
- optimize and exploit the resources spent in developing WoD
- gain female players
- enable vanity microtransactions
- expand EVE beyond its "cult" niche

And currently there's a few more:

- attract new players
- compete against a new generation of "classic" space games sporting avatars
- expand beyond its stagnant niche

Must be noted that all the above ecept the expansion can be achieved without additional gameplay. Must be noted too that the ongoing Hallelujah Plan does not adress any of the above.

To all those people talking about WiS that was almost complete and then arbitrarily thrown out to start again on a new engine. Rubbish! WiS failed, for whatever reason they couldn't get it working. They gave up on it.

What we got was a face saving exercise, which failed to do even that. CCP are never going to work on it again, but after so much time and effort wasted, they are too embarrassed to admit it.

That is why no CCP employee has commented on this thread.

Yeah we do, this doesn't mean they can't take like 1% of their time and draw up some rooms we can walk around in.

Yeah we do, this doesn't mean they can't take like 1% of their time and draw up some rooms we can walk around in

Why in the name of Garp would we want THAT?!

Are you insane!?

WiS types are delusional (as evidenced by you people still harping on this 2 years after it's all been decided).

Do you think we all just made up our memories of US screaming "it's a space ship game" to CCP and our CSM reps?

You must have missed the Reddit AMA where CCP Rise made the statement in my signature.

Some people can't help but see the Waldorf Astoria (EVE Online) and yern to turn it into the Econo Lodge (games that are not EVE Online).

Yup but they did spend 4 years of development on it... so that was just a complete waste then?

WoD is going to crash and burn like 95% of MMO's out there. I hope they scrap that vampire stuff and focus 100% on EVE.... then again having fangs in a spaceship game sounds promising....

The arguments in favor of avatars still are the same now as they were in 2011:

- provide a immersive New Player Experience
- improve player attachment to the game
- optimize and exploit the resources spent in developing WoD
- gain female players
- enable vanity microtransactions
- expand EVE beyond its "cult" niche

And currently there's a few more:

- attract new players
- compete against a new generation of "classic" space games featuring avatars
- expand beyond its stagnant niche

Must be noted that all the above except the expansion can be achieved without additional gameplay. Must be noted too that the ongoing Hallelujah Plan does not adress any of the above.

- expand EVE beyond its "cult" niche

Reported for racism.

Context is important you know.

He was referring to role players.

OMG THAT SOUNDS SO FRICKIN AWESOME


And here I am wasting my time flying a spaceship around when I could be walking IN AND OUT OF ROOMS!

It's a young thread, and one that might bring up quite emotional reactions memories from CCP staff.

Remember that when we got parts of a future game removed or delayed, they had friends who lost their jobs.

Now.

Since it doesn't look like we are getting any avatar based game play in the close future (which in EvE terms means not for then next 3-5 years) it either means that you have a better understanding of the market and/or are much smarter then CCP management.

Or that they have other opinions and/or access to information that you don't have.

Since I refuse to question your intelligence I think it comes down to the latter.

But one thing.


Is that really very wise?

Isn't that what has kept EvE alive for 10 years, despite "EvE Killers" popping up every 6-12 months?

If you are running a small but successful and commercially stable book shop focussed on a narrow but enthusiastic audience. Is going for wider audience always the best solution?

Or could, for example, using what you have a try to create an another store focussing on a different but equally narrow audience be wiser?

Someone got fired over walking in stations?

Just about 20% of the staff.

Not directly down to WiS, but down to CCP's overstretch in trying to do too much at the same time.

Which among other things led to WoD getting slashed down to a slow simmer and WiS losing it's needed companion game.

I think it's just a lot to do with outsider arrogance, the whole "I could do way better than that" people have in all aspects of life (like who pot bellied guys who used to play football but never made it to college let alone the pros set around on sundays yelling at TV screens about what NFL players should have done on that last play ).

I couldn't keep my 1st marriage going for 10 years let alone keep an MMO worth millions of dollars with thousands of players. I think I'll reserve judgement about what CCP should be doing with it's properties lol.



So much this.

I don't care if it takes resources away from something else.

And this is why I loathe roleplayers.

Well, so much for getting more women involved in the game.

Honestly I like the station environment and it was fun making an Avatar. I think this game has better looking characters than most MMO's out there. Why not expand on something they already started? Does expanding a little on characters need to take anything away from the space ships?

Blowing things up in space is a blast though, just not sure how long it will be fun. Would be nice to blow up a hapless miner then go back for some drinks at the station bar with my pirate friends. Keep flying those retrievers

If CCP wants more women in the game, they should find women who like space ships and market to them. I fail to see what a person's gender has to do with space ships.

As for having drinks, I do that all the time, with real drinks, while on coms with buddies who's avatars i don't have to look at.

I wonder if people playing WoW right now are walking around Azeroth thinking "you know what this game needs? Spaceships."

Also, isnt it offensive to say that more women would be in the game if we put in more kitchens and shoe shops???

What has that got to do with RP in my MMORPG?

What has that got to do with RP in my MMORPG?

And this is why I loathe roleplayers.

More stale arguments concerning "the players that left".

If players get butt hurt over something so simple as a walk in station, maybe Eve isnt for them.

Every MMO I've ever played there have been roleplayers who insist that their nonsense take priority over everything else. WiS fetishists are the same way. Eve Online is a spaceship game and any resources that aren't spent on improving or adding to real Eve content are a waste and bad for the game. People demanding that CCP hurt their own game are just incredibly selfish.

If you don't like people wanting stuff other than Eve content maybe you should go onto the Dust forums and rant at them. There are more people there that want developers doing that 'not on spaceships' than in this forum. I think your purpose would be better served there. Also, we don't really want you and your alts here.

Also, biomass.

If you don't like people wanting stuff other than Eve content maybe you should go onto the Dust forums and rant at them
.

Speaking for myself, I want more WiS content. It doesn't need to be big expansions, it doesn't need to be major overhauls. I'd just like to see it slowly grow and improve beyond its current, purely cosmetic status.

I don't care if it takes resources away from something else. What we have right now just isn't enough, and I reject the notion that EVE is purely an internet spaceships game right now - it's far too big and metagamey to be just that - and I completely reject the idea that it should always remain solely about the spaceships.

I am, however, resigned to not seeing WiS receive any attention for several years now.

. I'd just like for them to be a specific kind of gameplay mechanics that are avatar-based rather than spaceship-based.

Has anyone even suggested what they want to do apart from the perennial "Sit in a bar"?

Wow, this topic has hit a few nerves and hearts it seems. For good reason, WiS has been a big topic for years, it's too bad CCP messed up so badly on the big expansion for it.

WiS is not just about role playing, it is about immersion in the game and expanding an already promising character/avatar part of the game.

CCP doesn't need to put as much resources into improving WiS , they could gradually work on it with each expansion that way it would complement space ship improvements.

From what i get after reading posts so far, there is a camp of people who absolutely hate the idea of CCP putting any effort into WiS again and a camp that would like to see it done right this time.

Lets hope CCP does something with it.

Let's hope CCP keeps their promise to focus on real Eve content.

So what I want is WiS that has useful sandboxy mechanics that are complimentary to the space gameplay. I want WiS to enrich and improve the whole of EVE, in ways that benefit my out-of-character play experience and that of everybody else who plays the game too, regardless of whether or not they RP.

What I'm asking for, in short, is that resources that are being used to create interesting gameplay mechanics, should be used to create interesting gameplay mechanics. I'd just like for them to be a specific kind of gameplay mechanics that are avatar-based rather than spaceship-based.

Let's hope CCP keeps their promise to focus on real Eve content.

Like what?

[...]

Has anyone even suggested what they want to do apart from the perennial "Sit in a bar"?

Nobody got "butt hurt" over "walk in station". Eve players got mad over the game being ignored for two years while "walk in station" was developed.

CCP doesn't need to put as much resources into improving WiS , they could gradually work on it with each expansion that way it would complement space ship improvements.

WAlking in stations is a real part of EVE content sir, that happened in 2011 and nothing will change that. All I and others are asking for is a piece of the pie each expansion to see it grow. Who knows you may like the improvements someday yourself while still being able to do your internet spaceships.

Developing content for WiS need not be too difficult

Please see the quote in my signature.

Please see the quote in my signature.

when EVE gets competition from elite and star citizen and other sci fi games in development

the difference between spaceships and avatars is an illusion. It's all EVE.

Let's hope CCP keeps their promise to focus on real Eve content.

The two years that Eve got ignored while WiS was developed say otherwise.

Thats probably the same DEV who made the decisions that made Incarna a disaster, but who cares.

Anyone who remembers Ambulation or has hope in the inspiration that more Character based Immersion can add to EVE Online should let CCP know. Don't let failure of the past or nay sayers tell you otherwise, this game is about space and is without limits, so why stop now.

And none of that addresses the potential downsides, life for instance more people playing Avatar online means fewer people in space and thus vulnerable to having a ship blown up....in a game where the driving force of the economy is consumption.

Or

Attracting the wrong sort of players to the game (ie non-Spacefarers) , who in turn will demand more and more content basically forcing CCP to spend more and more of it's finite resources (and no matter how big CCP gets, those resourse will always be finite) on something other than the core of the game (space ships) ie the thing that made EVE special in the 1st place..


WiS is a distraction. If someone wants that they should play Star Trek Online or wait for Star Citizen, EVE is unique and special because it's a no nonsense space ship game appealing to no nonsense spaceship gamers who are willing to stay with such a game for decades. Do fix what ain't broken.

That might be true if you ask a game designer.

If you understood a minor fraction of the difference between rendering a somewhat lifelike avatar and a spaceship then you wouldn't state it so casual.

Don't let failure of the past or nay sayers tell you otherwise, this game is about space and is without limits, so why stop now.

Your argument is flawed, implying that they totally neglected anything space ship related. The game has been/and always will be in a constant state of being "fixed".

There will never been a time where the Developers go "Well, all he game mechanics are perfect now. Lets move on to WiS."

The thing that burned so many players in my opinion is the Micro Transaction debacle. Not the actual WiS. The WiS is just a by product of MT. They can still expand the WiS with out the MTs.

I actually do understand the difference, quite intimately.

I was talking from a high-concept philosophical perspective rather than a technical one. As should have been obvious.

Fix sov and caps/supercaps before any of this fluff crap, thanks.

How is EVE better? Dead or with WiS?

How about because CCP is a very small company with limited resources?

And with a solid (but loud, informed, rude and annoying) user base they have to thread a bit careful?

The game might be about space and without limits, CCP has limits.

But the reason why WiS is in this state, and why it'll remain in this state for some years is and remains a technical one.

If WiS is so important, why isn't EVE dead already? It's been 10 years.

What makes you think that a game that has survived everything up to and including massive CCP screw ups is going to die because it lacks people shaped pixels doing things?

EVE is better off staying EVE. The people who want to walk around should play games that feature that (hell, there's a Star Wars game going that has that, a Star Trek game that has it, etc etc, just pick one). EVE is for the spaceship guys.

If WiS is so important, why isn't EVE dead already? It's been 10 years.

What makes you think that a game that has survived everything up to and including massive CCP screw ups is going to die because it lacks people shaped pixels doing things?

EVE is better off staying EVE. The people who want to walk around should play games that feature that (hell, there's a Star Wars game going that has that, a Star Trek game that has it, etc etc, just pick one). EVE is for the spaceship guys.

How about because CCP is a very small company with limited resources?

And with a solid (but loud, uninformed, rude and annoying) user base they have to thread a bit careful?

The game might be about space and without limits, CCP has limits.

I think it's quite clear that the major reason for that is one of opposition and philosophy rather than technical challenge. CCP don't let technical challenges stop them - if they did, EVE wouldn't even exist. Technical challenges are eminently surmountable - player hostility is less so.

Every time somebody even mentions the possibility of resurrecting Incarna content, we get a thread full of hostility, usually spearheaded by the Goons for some reason.

Now.

Since it doesn't look like we are getting any avatar based game play in the close future (which in EvE terms means not for then next 3-5 years) it either means that you have a better understanding of the market and/or are much smarter then CCP management.

Or that they have other opinions and/or access to information that you don't have.

Since I refuse to question your intelligence I think it comes down to the latter.(...)

The arguments in favor of avatars still are the same now as they were in 2011:

- provide a immersive New Player Experience
- improve player attachment to the game
- optimize and exploit the resources spent in developing WoD
- gain female players
- enable vanity microtransactions
- expand EVE beyond its "cult" niche

Spaceships spend more time in a drydock getting repairs and waiting for its next mission than it spends in space. Why not expand on that environment where the ship is in its dock. How about expand the camera options so we can see past the ship in its dock. How about putting multiple ships on the screen that are in our hangar. How about letting us take a small shuttle or walkway up to our ship so we can see just how big it is next to people. Or perhaps show workmen doing repairs on the ship while it is in dock as you sift through your items and next strategy.

I think part of it was just how poorly implemented Incarna was. They took away the traditional hangar and forced people into the Avatar CQ which really upset people and rightfully so, it was just a silly decision.

Spaceships spend more time in a drydock getting repairs and waiting for its next mission than it spends in space. Why not expand on that environment where the ship is in its dock. How about expand the camera options so we can see past the ship in its dock. How about putting multiple ships on the screen that are in our hangar. How about letting us take a small shuttle or walkway up to our ship so we can see just how big it is next to people. Or perhaps show workmen doing repairs on the ship while it is in dock as you sift through your items and next strategy.

There are so many wonderful and exciting ways CCP can enhance the in station environment and yes, that involves space ships.

Damn, for a thread that covers a very old topic, this is turning out to be a threadnaught already. Nine pages and this thread only came up today.

When I'm docked Im either busy doing other things with the game (buying stuff from market, contracting stuff, fitting a ship etc). I don't find anything you just said appealing in the least. I'm not trying to lose myself in a game, I'm just playing a game.

The best "docked" content CCP could add is a browser that doesn't suck, screw everything else.

When I'm docked Im either busy doing other things with the game (buying stuff from market, contracting stuff, fitting a ship etc). I don't find anything you just said appealing in the least. I'm not trying to lose myself in a game, I'm just playing a game.

The best "docked" content CCP could add is a browser that doesn't suck, screw everything else.

The WiS enhances the game play when not flying in space ships.

Personally my opinion is that they've painted themselves in a corner after a series of bad decissions and are trying to sell the corner as the place they always wanted to be.

Your style of play should not dictate on what content they develop.

Am I the only one around here who never noticed any problems with the code and optimisation of Incarna?

If WiS is so important, why isn't EVE dead already? It's been 10 years.

What makes you think that a game that has survived everything up to and including massive CCP screw ups is going to die because it lacks people shaped pixels doing things?

EVE is better off staying EVE. The people who want to walk around should play games that feature that (hell, there's a Star Wars game going that has that, a Star Trek game that has it, etc etc, just pick one). EVE is for the spaceship guys.

The time I'm not flying around in sapce (unless i'm docked for some need) is called "Being logged off". Therefore CCP should spend money and man hours on BLOiS (Being Logged Off in Station) because it enhances gameplay....