Been there and done that and surprise surprise it didn't work, why, because who the hell wants to log onto to a game and watch somebody mine for a few hours not getting any isk?

Why should people spend hours watching other people mine (earn isk) when they have not?

I am itching to see null. Never even been close to it before. It's a part of the game that is walled off to me due to the fact that I am unwilling to allow other gamers to ruin my fun.

it occurs to me that this discussion would go so much more smoothly if every single ignorant highseccer didn't insist that the situation be explained in full specially just for him yet again

Perhaps because they have yet to explain it for the first time.....?

It is harder

more expensive

and slower to manufacture things in nullsec.

Ok.

It is harder, more expensive, and slower to manufacture things in nullsec. It also has a much higher opportunity cost for the actual people involved.

It is literally cheaper to just use the personnel you have to grind isk and buy the stuff you need.

Perhaps because they have yet to explain it for the first time.....?

You know, it's funny you should say this, because this is an advice that is provided to hi sec miners ad nauseum during hulkageddon- and jihadswarm-like events. I'm curious as to why is it good for the goose but not the gander to get protection while mining?

Can't see how it would be slower.

You really don't understand why buying something instantly is faster than making it yourself?

personally to you? what makes you so special you need a private briefing

lol, and it always comes back to mining

1) there exists a thing called mineral compression

You really don't understand why buying something instantly is faster than making it yourself?

There is no activity that will not be hampered by constant attrition

It doesnt make industry impossible, it makes it harder

lol, and it always comes back to mining, as if you actually need to mine in nullsec to participate in industry.

1) there exists a thing called mineral compression

2) there are plenty of things you can make that don't even COST minerals. see: rigs.

are relic/data sites profitable to run? Yes. do people in nullsec alliances run them? Yes.

Bingo -- now you have all the resources on hand to produce T1/T2 rigs. Congrats.

By that logic it's never worth it to produce, not even in highsec. Just buy it instead.

The core of industry only comes down to three things.

1) Hauling goods around.

2) Clicking through the cluster-**** of a UI to make things whilst sitting at a station.

3) Occasionally fiddling with a POS. In nullsec you might not even need one considering how many slots there are.

So as for 1), I don't think JF'ing goods in nullsec is more dangerous than freightering goods in highsec. Red Frog loses freighters on a regular basis in highsec, as do many others.

JF is inherently faster/safer than a traditional freighter. If you don't agree, you've probably never flown a freighter through highsec before -- experiencing the thrill of getting cargo scanned every other gate.

As for 2) Sitting in a station clicking through UI does not have any inherent danger associated with it.

For 3), POS's are definitely more at risk in nullsec than in highsec, but that's about the only aspect of increased risk I'll grant you.

You know, it's funny you should say this, because this is an advice that is provided to hi sec miners ad nauseum during hulkageddon- and jihadswarm-like events. I'm curious as to why is it good for the goose but not the gander to get protection while mining?

I really do think you're trolling at this point.

Why on God's Green Earth would I bother shipping minerals in a jump freighter, then take the time to cook the blueprints myself(in a facility that is vulnerable to attack no less), when I can just buy the finished product?

Cool materials magically appear in Jump freighters and Jump freighters never die, thats good to know

Also; Jump freghters are free to purchase and operate

I really do think you're trolling at this point.

Why on God's Green Earth would I bother shipping minerals in a jump freighter, then take the time to cook the blueprints myself(in a facility that is vulnerable to attack no less), when I can just buy the finished product?

It's not like I can possibly make it any cheaper than the guy selling it in Jita.

Same number of jumps.



If you intend to actually use it, that is pretty close to true.

The core of industry only comes down to three things.

1) Hauling goods around.

2) Clicking through the cluster-**** of a UI to make things whilst sitting at a station.

3) Occasionally fiddling with a POS. In nullsec you might not even need one considering how many slots there are.

So as for 1), I don't think JF'ing goods in nullsec is more dangerous than freightering goods in highsec. Red Frog loses freighters on a regular basis in highsec, as do many others.

JF is inherently faster/safer than a traditional freighter. If you don't agree, you've probably never flown a freighter through highsec before -- experiencing the thrill of getting cargo scanned every other gate.

As for 2) Sitting in a station clicking through UI does not have any inherent danger associated with it.

For 3), POS's are definitely more at risk in nullsec than in highsec, but that's about the only aspect of increased risk I'll grant you.

I never said either of those things. Straw man less, it doesn't become you.

Too much defensive circling. Here is what I have taken from the thread so far:

The refining efficiency % is less in null than highsec. You can get perfect refining percentages in highsec, but not in Null.

The number of manufacturing slots in high *could* be exceeded in Null if stations were set up to do so. Amarr stations are the equal to highsec in some/all ways for manufacturing. There is a massive buff to hull production in Null that Highsec does not have.

Null has all the ore in game, in higher percentages and density. Highsec does not have all ore, and it is in lower density.

Highsec miners can mine for long stretches at a time and if ATK, should take few losses. Null miners would need a guard to mine for any length of time, and ATK would likely still take losses from time to time, even with guards.

Each Null system where mining is going on would need a fairly strong fleet available for defense at all times. Scouting, scanning, and intel would need to be ramped up in the industrial and connecting systems.

Goods produced under these conditions may be competitive to highsec, if the risk and cost of travelling to and from highsec is accounted for.

Alternately, an actively defended JF route could be used to import. This is pretty much the status quo option. I consider the first option to be the one with the most potential fun PGC.

By getting the people who mine, manufacture and sell the goods to you to come to you.

here is a little hint: STOP KILLING THOSE WHO WANT TO SELL YOU THE STUFF YOU USE TO KILL OTHERS WITH:

Then explain yourself. Where do these materials come from?

You avoid answering and turn to insults because you cant give a proper answer.

There is no resource gathering activity in Null that is not at risk from attrition.