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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |

Billy McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
73
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:08:00 -
[1201] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Well, first of all, Jenn is a dude.
Secondly, the trick is not getting caught. Knowing and using the MWD+Cloak trick, watching for probes, and judicious use of DotLan to avoid potential gatecamp systems tends to work fairly well.
So, it's not that they wouldn't shoot Jenn, it's that he doesn't give them a chance to do it.
Well she looks like a female to me
And I guess they dont do what Donny Dont Does
And Im not sure that you could call it a "trick" anymore. |

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
718
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:08:00 -
[1202] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Nerfs that effect other areas of space are not nerfs to highsec, they are nerfs to everything...
High end anom nerfs on the other hand, are nerfs to just nullsec. And this is exactly the double standard I speak of. Let's take this one step at a time. First, list the nerfs you consider to be exclusive to null. And keep in mind I'm using your own definition of "nerf". For example, by your own standards, a nerf to the Forsaken sites is not a nerf to null because these sites exist outside of null.
Quote:Industry in any area but highsec is entirely unviable This is an untrue and baseless claim. I actually do my manufacturing in lo sec exclusively and have managed to make billions per week while spending less time logged in. I left hi sec precisely because I had reached a ceiling impeding me from being more efficient with my time and efforts. And no, I do not build capitals.
Quote:Personal income is far more viable in highsec than anywhere else. While the individual upper bounds of nullsec may be higher, they are subtractive, and thus not sustainable for any significant population size. As opposed to L4s, which can be done by hundreds of people without end, ever, in near total safety. I'm not so sure I buy the whole 'null income is unsustainable'. There are plenty of null systems with zero human interaction. I've tried to set shop and make some of this 'pitiful' unsustainable isk you speak of in null. Naturally, I'm driven away by the null holders. You know why? Because they want it that way. They don't use the space efficiently (or even at all!) and also don't want anyone else using it. So let me ask you, might this not be causing some of that unsustainability problem you speak of? Because that is where I'd start looking.
Quote:make highsec less safe by some means, so that more loss can be generated. And this fixes null industry and its unsustainability how exactly? And how does lowering L4 payouts relieve null from its industry issues? We go back to the questions of what is it exactly you're trying to fix. Yes, you say it forces people to move from their home system making things more interesting (for you), but I fail to see how it addresses the issues you claim you want to fix. |

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
718
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:13:00 -
[1203] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:This is about game balance. If there is no reason to go to null then people will not go to null, if the only way to fix the game is to nerf high sec then thats what must happen. If I were a betting man, I'd bet the primary reason most people don't head to null is because of the ****** politics and asshattery that is perceived to go on there, whether true or not. I for one, don't want to surrender my autonomy and my fun/play time to someone else. You want more people in null? What have you done to change that perception? What has your alliance done to change that perception, besides admitting that its goal is to ruin everyone else's game ? |

baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9914
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:13:00 -
[1204] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Nerfs that effect other areas of space are not nerfs to highsec, they are nerfs to everything...
High end anom nerfs on the other hand, are nerfs to just nullsec. And this is exactly the double standard I speak of. Let's take this one step at a time. First, list the nerfs you consider to be exclusive to null. And keep in mind I'm using your own definition of "nerf". For example, by your own standards, a nerf to the Forsaken sites is not a nerf to null because these sites exist outside of null.
These forsaken sites could not be run like the ones in sov null. It was a nerf to sov null to stop activity only happening in sov nul.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
2169
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:15:00 -
[1205] - Quote
Quote:You already are. So is Baltec.
That is correct.
And my presence in highsec is a bad thing for plenty of people. I go out of my way to make this so, for as many people as I can.
Moreso Baltec than I, however, at least for anyone who pilots a freighter. Pretty sure I can lay about a dozen freighter kills at the feet of Bat Country in the last few weeks.
But this isn't *all* of them. If you really think that some highsec mission alts equal the entirety of a massive nullsec alliance descending on the denizens of highsec... then I have a bridge to sell you. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
730
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:16:00 -
[1206] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tell me why you would take the greater risks in null sov space to earn less than in high sec with full concord protection?
To have fun. Understand sir that ISK/hr is not how I measure success. The problem is that I've never really made the connection between Null and a "fun" place. Your results and experience may differ.
If I were to play the role of an ISK/hr *****, you would have to make it really worth my while to get me to go to Null. But I can also tell you that I:
Do not currently rake in 150-180 million ISK/hr running missions. Do not run any incursions.
You might recall that I'm "doing it wrong".
Honestly, I don't have a dog in this fight. But you seem convinced that:
1) CCP is ******* clueless about what is happening in Null Sec.
And
2) CCP is not ruining the game, they're just ruining YOUR game.
"You should just create one thread and put all of your complaints in it instead of littering the forums with multiple threads." ~CCP Falcon
Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has. |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4442
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:17:00 -
[1207] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:baltec1 wrote:Billy McCandless wrote:
So why not just pop into NPC Null for your LP?
Not only can these handful of systems not support tens of thousand players but if we even try they will be **** caged by every hostile power going. Plus it does not fix the problem of the vast bulk of null sec being useless. Was there ever a reason given why some space is literraly **** in null? Not why it is because thats documented somewhere I could probably read but why it was created that way? Why to 0.0 to -1.0 "hidden" sec status and all. Why not only different kind of rat and ice like in high?
The answer is long and complicated. Basically, the problem with null is CCPs piecemeal approach to things.
When I started, anomalies and complexes alike had to be scanned down. Belt ratting was a MAJOR source of income (so much so that the most coveted systems for ratting where those with a lot of belts, blue on blue fights would occur sometimes when one guy was chaining and some idiot would mess up his chain). But all in all Null sec couldn't even support the paltry sums of characters it had back then.
Then came Dominion and the ability to upgrade systems. it was great, you could take any system and make it militarily viable enough to support 3, 4 , maybe 5 people doing anomalies at a time and a similar number of people mining (with complexes and wormholes appearing in systems more often with the right upgrades, those were basically a bonus). The problem was that it made ALL space the exact same.
That's where the nerfing started, in the name of "driving conflict" CCP radically changed the miltary upgrade system, now the VAST majority of sov null sec could no longer support even ONE ratter with enough isk per hour to make living in that system a viable alternative to high sec with it's endless lvl 4 missions and now incursions.. Overnight null sec turned into the vast space-desert it was before, and it's stayed that way.
At the core of the problem was the fact that CCP used existing content (anomalies) are the core of it's military upgrade scheme. Anomalies POUR liquid isk into the economy, and this was exacerbated by CCP ending gun mining, which mean that 8 regions that weren't injecting any isk into the economy (Drone Regions) were now just like the rest of SOV null. 8 new isk spewing regions didn't help the EVe economy one bit.
What CCP should have done instead of using anoms as the base of the military upgrade scheme was what they did with low sec; introduced LP (FW, lvl5 missions) or tag 9clone soldier) based ways to make isk. Anomalies were never designed to be a large scale isk harvesting activity.
Because anomalies spew liquid isk, doing any buffing of null is a mistake because stuffing the economy with new isk is a mistake. When it comes to pew pew PVE, CCP has options, fix anomalies to spew something other than isk, or(and?) nerf the ridicules high isk activities of high sec that should exist in the 1st place.
With industry, it's a whole different thing. Null industry will NEVER be able to compete with high sec industry as long high industry is basically free and npc based. That's where the nerfing needs to happen.
The situation isn't that high sec is a bunch of fat cats sitting around, it's that those of us who would not have to deal with being in high sec are stuck. Our choices are live in null sec and suffer in a sub optimal situation, or stay connected at the hip to high sec. CCP talked about the idea of living in null in a self sufficient fashion, but it's just not possible while it's cheaper to just ship everything from jita, and it's cheaper because the game is broken. |

baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9914
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:17:00 -
[1208] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:baltec1 wrote:This is about game balance. If there is no reason to go to null then people will not go to null, if the only way to fix the game is to nerf high sec then thats what must happen. If I were a betting man, I'd bet the primary reason most people don't head to null is because of the ****** politics and asshattery that is perceived to go on there, whether true or not. I for one, don't want to surrender my autonomy and my fun/play time to someone else. You want more people in null? What have you done to change that perception? What has your alliance done to change that perception, besides admitting that its goal is to ruin everyone else's game  ?
Well there is the fact that we have made CCP fix several bugs and pushed to fix several more broken areas. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |

baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9914
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:18:00 -
[1209] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:baltec1 wrote:Tell me why you would take the greater risks in null sov space to earn less than in high sec with full concord protection? To have fun. Understand sir that ISK/hr is not how I measure success.
So nerfing high sec income wont be an issue for you then.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |

TharOkha
0asis Group
788
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:21:00 -
[1210] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:My house is ******. Your house should be ****** too. Because that philosophy has always improved the quality of life for all parties involved.  This is about game balance. If there is no reason to go to null then people will not go to null, if the only way to fix the game is to nerf high sec then thats what must happen.
Maybe thats the reason why are null sec SOE mission hubs sooooo much populated compared to those in hisec right? Not to mention that nullsec SOE pays 50% more LPs than in hisec.
. |

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
719
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:23:00 -
[1211] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:These forsaken sites could not be run like the ones in sov null. It was a nerf to sov null to stop activity only happening in sov nul. baltec1, this nerf did not just affect your null sec blaster boat. Anyone and everyone running these sites were affected, irregardless on where they spawned. You know this. |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4442
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:23:00 -
[1212] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:baltec1 wrote:Tell me why you would take the greater risks in null sov space to earn less than in high sec with full concord protection? To have fun. Understand sir that ISK/hr is not how I measure success. The problem is that I've never really made the connection between Null and a "fun" place. Your results and experience may differ. If I were to play the role of an ISK/hr *****, you would have to make it really worth my while to get me to go to Null. But I can also tell you that I: Do not currently rake in 150-180 million ISK/hr running missions. Do not run any incursions. You might recall that I'm "doing it wrong". Honestly, I don't have a dog in this fight. But you seem convinced that: 1) CCP is ******* clueless about what is happening in Null Sec. And 2) CCP is not ruining the game, they're just ruining YOUR game.
I underlined the problem. The only reason to go to null is "just for kicks". The only way to maintain a reasonable lifestyle in EVE (reasonable meaning "making enough isk to do what you want such as throwing away ships in pvp or losing ships in say a wormhole) is to be a slave to high sec.
It wasn't always that way. used to be that (at least with combat pve, industry has always be screwy), you wanted the kind of isk you can make right now in an incursion or from SOE/Thukker missions, you went to null sec and risked losing your ship. now you risk nothing but a gank squad if you are too shiney or some pissed off Germans popping your MOM ahead of schedule.....
CCP needs to restore the balance. The only place in EVE that works right nowadays are wormholes (maximum risk, maximum rewards). |

Billy McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
73
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:23:00 -
[1213] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:baltec1 wrote:This is about game balance. If there is no reason to go to null then people will not go to null, if the only way to fix the game is to nerf high sec then thats what must happen. If I were a betting man, I'd bet the primary reason most people don't head to null is because of the ****** politics and asshattery that is perceived to go on there, whether true or not. I for one, don't want to surrender my autonomy and my fun/play time to someone else. You want more people in null? What have you done to change that perception? What has your alliance done to change that perception, besides admitting that its goal is to ruin everyone else's game  ? Well there is the fact that we have made CCP fix several bugs and pushed to fix several more broken areas.
Yes but more to the point, are you more concerned with your own profitability in your space, or are you saying it would be better for all if more people went there?
Im just of the opinion that while, I accept, its possible to mission scan and even mine in null, without doing the Grand Alliance dance (Im avoiding the G word cos it offends Jenn for some reason), its impossible for anyone to live there.
So, this leaves the situation that Grand Alliances can live there but not profit and small operators can profit but not live there.
Thats certainly how it seems to be falling. |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4442
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:25:00 -
[1214] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:baltec1 wrote:These forsaken sites could not be run like the ones in sov null. It was a nerf to sov null to stop activity only happening in sov nul. baltec1, this nerf did not just affect your null sec blaster boat. Anyone and everyone running these sites were affected, irregardless on where they spawned. You know this.
This is incorrect, Baltec isn't taling about the npc AI change, he's talking about the forsaken hub nerf, exclusive to null sec.
|

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
719
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:27:00 -
[1215] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Well there is the fact that we have made CCP fix several bugs and pushed to fix several more broken areas. Yeah, I'm also for fixing bugs, especially those that affect me the greatest. It doesn't mean I'm promoting an exodus into null. |

baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9915
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:28:00 -
[1216] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:
Maybe thats the reason why are null sec SOE mission hubs sooooo much populated compared to those in hisec right? Not to mention that nullsec SOE pays 50% more LPs than in hisec.
You expect us to dump tens of thousands of our people into fewer than ten systems out of several thousand?
We want sov null to be viable, telling people to just go to NPC null does not solve the massive problem that sov null has. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |

baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9915
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:29:00 -
[1217] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:baltec1 wrote:Well there is the fact that we have made CCP fix several bugs and pushed to fix several more broken areas. Yeah, I'm also for fixing bugs, especially those that affect me the greatest. It doesn't mean I'm promoting an exodus into null.
Tech nerf. Who just also happened to own most of the tech moons again? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
719
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:32:00 -
[1218] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:baltec1 wrote:Well there is the fact that we have made CCP fix several bugs and pushed to fix several more broken areas. Yeah, I'm also for fixing bugs, especially those that affect me the greatest. It doesn't mean I'm promoting an exodus into null. Tech nerf. Who just also happened to own most of the tech moons again? The tech nerf was actually a fix. Tech is not even an R64! Come on, you know this :). |

baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9915
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:34:00 -
[1219] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:baltec1 wrote:These forsaken sites could not be run like the ones in sov null. It was a nerf to sov null to stop activity only happening in sov nul. baltec1, this nerf did not just affect your null sec blaster boat. Anyone and everyone running these sites were affected, irregardless on where they spawned. You know this.
They couldn't run them like in null sov because they have no access to sov upgrades. It is impossible to do what we were doing outside of sov space.
The nerf was only aimed at sov space. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |

Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
61
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:35:00 -
[1220] - Quote
The obvious answer is to buff lowsec. If null is too poor, and highsec is to rich yet changing either would disrupt either...clearly the only answer is to make Lowsec the area to make all the isk. |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4442
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:36:00 -
[1221] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:baltec1 wrote:Well there is the fact that we have made CCP fix several bugs and pushed to fix several more broken areas. Yeah, I'm also for fixing bugs, especially those that affect me the greatest. It doesn't mean I'm promoting an exodus into null. Tech nerf. Who just also happened to own most of the tech moons again?
That's right.
Lets not forget the high end DEd complex nerf. Used to be that 10/10s used to have more overseer personal effects in them.
for example, the Angel 10/10 (Angel Cartel Naval Shipyard) used to drop 500 mil worth of OPEs (5 OPEs in all). So you could go into that 10/10 knowing you were gonna atleast make 500 mil even if you got no deadspace drop. It was worthwhile to take freinds, you could still make a profit.
Now it's foolish to take friends because a lot of time you'll get nothing good and have to split 200 mil 2 or 3 ways when you all could have made more isk running missions in high sec in the time it took you to clear the 1st 4 rooms and kill the boss in the 5th.
Hows that for a null only nerf?
|

baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9915
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:37:00 -
[1222] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: The tech nerf was actually a fix. Tech is not even an R64! Come on, you know this :).
Tech was by far the best moon to own for years. We said it was a bad change when they nerfed the old moneypot that BoB owned in fortress delve.
Learn your history. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
719
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:42:00 -
[1223] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:baltec1 wrote:These forsaken sites could not be run like the ones in sov null. It was a nerf to sov null to stop activity only happening in sov nul. baltec1, this nerf did not just affect your null sec blaster boat. Anyone and everyone running these sites were affected, irregardless on where they spawned. You know this. They couldn't run them like in null sov because they have no access to sov upgrades. It is impossible to do what we were doing outside of sov space. The nerf was only aimed at sov space. Yet it still affected them. It may have affected your gameplay more significantly. But it still is a nerf to everyone running these sites.
Or, would you say that the nerf to siege missiles a few years ago was a nerf to mission runners because it most significantly affected mission runners?
You can't have it both ways :). |

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
2239
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:44:00 -
[1224] - Quote
is Not Getting It some kind of new sport |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
2169
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:44:00 -
[1225] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:baltec1 wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:baltec1 wrote:These forsaken sites could not be run like the ones in sov null. It was a nerf to sov null to stop activity only happening in sov nul. baltec1, this nerf did not just affect your null sec blaster boat. Anyone and everyone running these sites were affected, irregardless on where they spawned. You know this. They couldn't run them like in null sov because they have no access to sov upgrades. It is impossible to do what we were doing outside of sov space. The nerf was only aimed at sov space. Yet it still affected them. It may have affected your gameplay more significantly. But it still is a nerf to everyone running these sites. Or, would you say that the nerf to siege missiles a few years ago was a nerf to mission runners because it most significantly affected mission runners? You can't have it both ways :).
The doublethink here is startling. Even for me, and I used to work at an insurance company. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
719
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:45:00 -
[1226] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: The tech nerf was actually a fix. Tech is not even an R64! Come on, you know this :).
Tech was by far the best moon to own for years. We said it was a bad change when they nerfed the old moneypot that BoB owned in fortress delve. You're changing the subject. You claimed the tech nerf was a nerf to null. Is this still your position? |

baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9915
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:50:00 -
[1227] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: Yet it still affected them. It may have affected your gameplay more significantly. But it still is a nerf to everyone running these sites.
Or, would you say that the nerf to siege missiles a few years ago was a nerf to mission runners because it most significantly affected mission runners?
You can't have it both ways :).
You ignoring facts does not change them.
This was a nerf aimed directly at null sov space. The forsaken hubs outside of null sov could not be run in the same way and was not a nerf in those areas of space because the ships being used will easily take care of frigates. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
731
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:51:00 -
[1228] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:baltec1 wrote:Tell me why you would take the greater risks in null sov space to earn less than in high sec with full concord protection? To have fun. Understand sir that ISK/hr is not how I measure success. So nerfing high sec income wont be an issue for you then.
Not... even... a... little... bit...
But it also won't make Null Sec any more profitable.
"You should just create one thread and put all of your complaints in it instead of littering the forums with multiple threads." ~CCP Falcon
Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has. |

baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9915
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:53:00 -
[1229] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:baltec1 wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: The tech nerf was actually a fix. Tech is not even an R64! Come on, you know this :).
Tech was by far the best moon to own for years. We said it was a bad change when they nerfed the old moneypot that BoB owned in fortress delve. You're changing the subject. You claimed the tech nerf was a nerf to null. Is this still your position?
I said we pushed to nerf tech despite the fact that it would greatly harm our coalition because it was imbalanced.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |

baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9915
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:57:00 -
[1230] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Not... even... a... little... bit...
But it also won't make Null Sec any more profitable.
No it wont. But it will make it more viable.
The goal isnt to make more isk, it to make null desirable to go to. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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