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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 37 post(s) |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
371
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Posted - 2014.01.15 16:41:00 -
[691] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:seth Hendar wrote:FaulEnza N00bist wrote:Sean Decker, former EA Executive, now with CPP, enter CCP headquarter: Emplyee: "Is that you or it is getting dumber in here?" Decker: " " Conclusion: since Decker/EA works with CCP, the total number of stupid ideas shoots through the clouds. Prediction: there will be no more rage quits, we will see more reason quits. if only players warned about that....oh wait..... sorry CCP, my wallet as a brain, and he says NO, 2 account remaining, 1 expire in 4 days, the last is runing till march - april i think, don't expect me to resub. wondering if i should since last year, the answer become more clear as deadline is coming up Can I haz stuff? no, stuff will be handed to my corp, in the intend to help the new players, sorry |
Schmata Bastanold
The brothers inc Brothers Of The Dark Sun
1276
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Posted - 2014.01.15 16:43:00 -
[692] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:675 posts in the first 25 hours, that's 27 posts/hour. Not all of them are equally outraged, some posters entirely misunderstand the ESS and/or NullSec. and are positive, but most posts are somewhere between *facepalm* and "set CCP HQ on fire". I hope it will take CCP less than 23 hours to figure out how to backpedal on this one! Although I find it funny that CCP stopped posting yesterday, and has not responded AT ALL today. Makes you wonder if they know what kind of landmine they placed, turned on, and immediately jumped upon ...
They are too busy hi5ing around the office and with CSM over skype and they all take photos in front of wall full of 5 year roadmap. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
658
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 16:48:00 -
[693] - Quote
Innominate wrote:Weaselior wrote:The problems with this implementation basically boil down to two major issues:
1) Interceptors exist
Interceptors are currently bubble immune and cannot be locked before they warp off. They invalidate nearly any defense you'd put up to guard your ESS. A lot of the balance here assumes you can guard it, which isn't really the case. There's no real viable way to kill an interceptor before it gets there, and with the ability of the interceptor to steal, warp out, and warp back in in 40s to get its tags the inty is virtually unkillable. This may be more of an issue that giving bubble immunity to interceptors was simply a mistake, but it makes the intended balance here not work.
2) A massive inbalance in the risk/reward that makes it a bad bet
You're asking people to risk 15% of their income for a 5% boost. That's a bad bet, especially considering point 1: you can't really do anything to affect the odds. You're going to wind up in the red most of the time, and 5% is not enough for people to want to play this game. Plus, the fact you are dumb enough to deploy an ESS means you're suddenly going to get a lot more interceptors in your space and you will lose a lot more often: word will spread about the people dumb enough to drop ESS that you can steal from and interceptors will decend on your space, losing you the money you risked for the ess, and losing you the money you'd have made while you safe up because hostiles are in your ratting system.
There is a third and larger problem. 3) Much effort goes into being able to rat in nullsec with a measure of safety. When bad ratters are losing ships to hostiles, they are acting as a beacon to draw more hostiles into the region which negatively impacts everyone's income. When smart ratters don't feed kills, fewer people show up to cause trouble. The ESS is essentially giving every roaming fleet free, guaranteed isk, paying them to trample through your space. There is no level of risk vs reward, or level of exposure for the attackers where the ESS becomes desirable for the ratters. As a bounty-siphon, an undesirable hostile module, the ESS could be made to work. Trying to pretend that it will ever be in any way beneficial to the ratters makes me think that whoever designed this has never actually spent any time ratting in nullsec.
Or actually playing Eve. I honestly believe that some of these Devs have never actually undocked.
Come on CCP, give us the name of the bright spark who thought this one up, he/she is a real catch.
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Xaerael Endiel
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
53
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Posted - 2014.01.15 16:55:00 -
[694] - Quote
A thing has just popped in my head in regard to the risk = reward side of the ESS.
Right, picture the scene. You're in a smoky bar on the bad side of town. A man with a badly fitting suit and two fingers missing sits at the table across from you and puts a revolver down with a smirk on his face and says "Hey kid, you wanna play a little roulette?" $200 buy in, you get $1000 per trigger pull.
Maybe it's the drink, or maybe you want to impress someone, or maybe you just want to buy that car you saw earlier today, you agree. The man picks up the gun, pops the chamber open and slides a single bullet in. He looks up at you and says "How about we make it more interesting... we put another bullet in, the prize goes up to $1050.
Yep. |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
658
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:06:00 -
[695] - Quote
Major Templar wrote:greiton starfire wrote:im suggesting leave plenty of risk. the timer would be kept short enough to form a quick fleet, but if you are going into enemy space you should be bringing more than 1 or 2 interceptors. the attackers have the advantage of already being organized and having guys on. the defenders would have to respond rapidly to get their fleet into the fight. getting a fleet to a system 10 jumps out takes time. so they wont wait for huge numbers they will throw out a quick fleet. also, hitting groups in off timezones will have major advantages. Defenders have the advantage as the ones having the jumpbridges and since when is it CCPs responsibility to make your vast empire of nothing but ratters more secure? Honestly, look at it like this. Your coalition are the ones who chose to keep expanding and have their main force far away from your ratting/mining systems. How is it then you say that you want more time to form up and come from 10+ jumps away to defend it? No. If you are going to give timers, then take away jump bridges. Simple.
Oooohhh... someone from test posting... so ..you still exist..... |
Callic Veratar
579
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:06:00 -
[696] - Quote
Unfortunately, this is the same group of devs behind wardecs, which are also a stupid mechanic that don't generate conflict in they way it's intended. I expect that the ESS will go forward as announced with no modifications whatsoever.
Those who use it will occasionally benefit, but most of the time will have their money stolen by inteceptors. Much in the same way that wars occasionally result in interesting conflicts, but most of the time result in a corp logging of for a week. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3366
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:22:00 -
[697] - Quote
There is a lot of unjustified hate in this thread!
Wardecs don't cause conflict? Really? That statement is simply moronic!
The ESS is a pretty good idea, it just needs some major tweaks: -- For these to be used, the reward needs to be worth it and they need to be defensible. Increase the payout (at least 1:1), and increase both the access time (make it 3-5 minutes) as well as the time for the can to drop (another 3-5 minutes). Now anyone that feels they can defend it will use it for the rewards. Those that can't will leave it be. But for this to be a conflict driver, the locals MUST get value in using it, and they MUST have time to form up to defend it. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
490
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:29:00 -
[698] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:It would be nice to get some dev &/or CSM feedback on the issues brought up.
also: Why wasn't this first released in the F&I forum for feedback. Does CCP consider the proposed version a final draft?
Based on feedback, we're looking at three things: - Time to get loot - lot of good points that the time needs to be increased - Interceptors too good - we're looking at ways to decrease the efficiency of using an interceptor to steal - Too effective as warp bubble - we're looking at making it less viable
Thanks for the feedback so far. Any test feedback from Sisi would also be much appreciated. |
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Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA
227
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:29:00 -
[699] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: There is a lot of unjustified hate in this thread!
Wardecs don't cause conflict? Really? That statement is simply moronic!
The ESS is a pretty good idea, it just needs some major tweaks: -- For these to be used, the reward needs to be worth it and they need to be defensible. Increase the payout (at least 1:1), and increase both the access time (make it 3-5 minutes) as well as the time for the can to drop (another 3-5 minutes). Now anyone that feels they can defend it will use it for the rewards. Those that can't will leave it be. But for this to be a conflict driver, the locals MUST get value in using it, and they MUST have time to form up to defend it.
the creation of a loot pinata in space doubling as a ratting booster will never be a good idea.
it's not "fun" to haul around anchorables and use them like this. that's not exciting. it's not interesting, it's not a deep mechanic.
it's contrived and silly.
it doesn't enable anything "new" like siphons or mobile depots etc. it's just an artificial, forced conflict driver. the exact opposite of the kind of emergent sandbox behavior that EVE is known for.
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Batolemaeus
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
18
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:32:00 -
[700] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:It would be nice to get some dev &/or CSM feedback on the issues brought up.
also: Why wasn't this first released in the F&I forum for feedback. Does CCP consider the proposed version a final draft? Based on feedback, we're looking at three things: - Time to get loot - lot of good points that the time needs to be increased - Interceptors too good - we're looking at ways to decrease the efficiency of using an interceptor to steal - Too effective as warp bubble - we're looking at making it less viable Thanks for the feedback so far. Any test feedback from Sisi would also be much appreciated.
So, you've not actually looked at any feedback at all?
The specifics of this abomination are irrelevant. The premise you built it on is completely wrong.
I have no idea what you think 0.0 is, but everything you are doing suggests that you have no clue how it works. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
18869
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:34:00 -
[701] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Based on feedback, we're looking at three things: - Time to get loot - lot of good points that the time needs to be increased - Interceptors too good - we're looking at ways to decrease the efficiency of using an interceptor to steal - Too effective as warp bubble - we're looking at making it less viable Have you looked at the reasoning for a blanket income nerf for rank-and-file null inhabitants? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
371
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:36:00 -
[702] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:It would be nice to get some dev &/or CSM feedback on the issues brought up.
also: Why wasn't this first released in the F&I forum for feedback. Does CCP consider the proposed version a final draft? Based on feedback, we're looking at three things: - Time to get loot - lot of good points that the time needs to be increased - Interceptors too good - we're looking at ways to decrease the efficiency of using an interceptor to steal - Too effective as warp bubble - we're looking at making it less viable Thanks for the feedback so far. Any test feedback from Sisi would also be much appreciated. as usual, your idea of integrating feedback is to take whatever goes in your way and discard the rest (rest being 90%+ of the comments telling you, with many details how and why it is NOT a good idea)
meh |
Warmistress Severine
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
49
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:39:00 -
[703] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:It would be nice to get some dev &/or CSM feedback on the issues brought up.
also: Why wasn't this first released in the F&I forum for feedback. Does CCP consider the proposed version a final draft? Based on feedback, we're looking at three things: - Time to get loot - lot of good points that the time needs to be increased - Interceptors too good - we're looking at ways to decrease the efficiency of using an interceptor to steal - Too effective as warp bubble - we're looking at making it less viable Thanks for the feedback so far. Any test feedback from Sisi would also be much appreciated.
Well, maybe you guys should look a little bit closer. The whole idea is crap.
Doesn't give more fights, makes ratting more complex in a totally stupid way, small roaming gangs won't use it, coz its stupid and if they would do it, they get stupid tags that they could turn in 40 jumps away.... Whats again as stupid as .... the hole thing.
So man up, cancel this crap and focus on stuff that makes sence. |
Billybob Sheepshooter
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:39:00 -
[704] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:It would be nice to get some dev &/or CSM feedback on the issues brought up.
also: Why wasn't this first released in the F&I forum for feedback. Does CCP consider the proposed version a final draft? Based on feedback, we're looking at three things: - Time to get loot - lot of good points that the time needs to be increased - Interceptors too good - we're looking at ways to decrease the efficiency of using an interceptor to steal - Too effective as warp bubble - we're looking at making it less viable Thanks for the feedback so far. Any test feedback from Sisi would also be much appreciated.
Are you actually able to read? Cause if thats the three things you got from 30+ pages of feedback then i don't know.
Here is a couple options:
Remove the bubble, remove the 5% nerf to nullsec income, remove the 20% initial drawback when module is dropped. increase the potential increase. Then maybe you will see a potential use for this module.
This hole idea is so ******* stupid you should feel ashamed. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4318
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 17:42:00 -
[705] - Quote
Tippia wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Based on feedback, we're looking at three things: - Time to get loot - lot of good points that the time needs to be increased - Interceptors too good - we're looking at ways to decrease the efficiency of using an interceptor to steal - Too effective as warp bubble - we're looking at making it less viable Have you looked at the reasoning for a blanket income nerf for rank-and-file null inhabitants?
+1, it's going in the direct opposite direction from where things should be going ('from the ground up' income for alliances).
The worst part of it to me is the whole "developing in a vacuum" thing, as if those other (less tedious) pve isk making avenues don't even exist. Under this new ESS scheme null inhabitants will have to spend time clearing out ESSs (or defending them) instead of making isk, on top of the time already lost defending space in home fleets or docking up when neutrals enter, which makes non Sov-null pve isk making even less attractive than it already is.
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
161
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:43:00 -
[706] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:It would be nice to get some dev &/or CSM feedback on the issues brought up.
also: Why wasn't this first released in the F&I forum for feedback. Does CCP consider the proposed version a final draft? Based on feedback, we're looking at three things: - Time to get loot - lot of good points that the time needs to be increased - Interceptors too good - we're looking at ways to decrease the efficiency of using an interceptor to steal - Too effective as warp bubble - we're looking at making it less viable Thanks for the feedback so far. Any test feedback from Sisi would also be much appreciated. One thing from Sisi that I didn't discover but a friend of mine did -- if you are outside the 30km range of the ESS and send your drones in to attack it, it announces that "NONE" has gotten close to the ESS.
Regarding interceptors, I'd suggest taking a look at my suggestion earlier about adding the hacking minigame to the ESS. (Relinking because it's easy to have actual suggestions buried under a hailstorm of kneejerk reaction posting.) I understand that it's probably too late in the development cycle for this to make it into the 1.1 release, but I'd strongly suggest adding it, as it removes a lot of the power interceptors have interacting with this module on account of their lack of hull bonuses for hacking. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Oxide Ammar
Equilibrium Tech Labs
37
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:43:00 -
[707] - Quote
How about adding 0.5-1% extra payout for every true sec less of the system..
Example:
0.0 --- 5% extra payout -0.1 --- 5.5 % extra payout -0.2 --- 6 % Extra payout .... .... -1.0 --- 10 % Extra payout
- by this you will make nullsec alliance use it in way or another. - the max pay out will be in deep deep of the nullsec sov, which to be honest this where most of ratters do their isk farming and if someone really want to go that deep to steal the bounty he is gonna have hard time achieving this and if he succeeded good for him XD.
P.S. but tbh you reap what you sow, most of you cheered up for CCP regarding interceptor buff and the game turned to be interceptor online, which was utterly broken. now every new feature (good or bad) you find interceptors are taking advantage (even abusing!) of it more than others. |
Innominate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
440
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:44:00 -
[708] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote: Based on feedback, we're looking at three things: - Time to get loot - lot of good points that the time needs to be increased - Interceptors too good - we're looking at ways to decrease the efficiency of using an interceptor to steal - Too effective as warp bubble - we're looking at making it less viable
Thanks for the feedback so far. Any test feedback from Sisi would also be much appreciated.
*WOOOOOOOOOOSH*
Hear that? That's the fundamental design flaws flying right on past you. I hope you've enjoyed wasting your time creating the next useless item to clog up the database.
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
161
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:45:00 -
[709] - Quote
Oh, and regarding the warp bubble portion being too good compared to mobile warp disruptors, there's an easy conceptual fix -- make the bubble require X amount of time before it comes online, or simply increase the anchoring time of the deployable period. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Kalenn Istarion
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
21
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:46:00 -
[710] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:It would be nice to get some dev &/or CSM feedback on the issues brought up.
also: Why wasn't this first released in the F&I forum for feedback. Does CCP consider the proposed version a final draft? Based on feedback, we're looking at three things: - Time to get loot - lot of good points that the time needs to be increased - Interceptors too good - we're looking at ways to decrease the efficiency of using an interceptor to steal - Too effective as warp bubble - we're looking at making it less viable Thanks for the feedback so far. Any test feedback from Sisi would also be much appreciated.
I can see what you're trying to go for with this, but as implemented it's literally terrible for ratters, as:
a) nullsec ratting income already sucks versus many other income options, and making it worse is not going to improve the viability of living in nullsec b) The amount of EHP means that this thing would take a DPS-fit T3 cruiser 2.5 minutes to burn down, never mind most normal ratting fits c) The appeal of running one of these in a system is next to zero, as you're putting far too much value at risk for a relatively low benefit. No-one is going to leave 20% of their income sitting in a magic space box at the risk of literally anyone coming along and stealing it. d) what's the time to push the box up to 25% pay? If it's anything longer than a reasonable person might spend ratting, it's pointless, for the reason I noted in c) - no-one is going to leave their income sitting around when they log off. Try Harder. |
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Hi O
Galactic Organization of Tariff and Trade.
16
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:46:00 -
[711] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:The tears in this thread a delicious
We get it. You like sucking down bodily fluids and you'll lick it like lollipop. |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
214
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:49:00 -
[712] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:- Interceptors too good - we're looking at ways to decrease the efficiency of using an interceptor to steal
Add some of those them thar stasis bubbles ^-^ Pretty please? |
Wibla
Tactical Narcotics Team
148
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:49:00 -
[713] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:It would be nice to get some dev &/or CSM feedback on the issues brought up.
also: Why wasn't this first released in the F&I forum for feedback. Does CCP consider the proposed version a final draft? Based on feedback, we're looking at three things: - Time to get loot - lot of good points that the time needs to be increased - Interceptors too good - we're looking at ways to decrease the efficiency of using an interceptor to steal - Too effective as warp bubble - we're looking at making it less viable Thanks for the feedback so far. Any test feedback from Sisi would also be much appreciated.
You should probably retake some english lessons, reading comprehension seems lacking.
There are fundamental design flaws in the current proposal, go fix them.
Protip: The 3 points above? not the design flaws you want to be spending dev time on. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3366
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:49:00 -
[714] - Quote
Tippia wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Based on feedback, we're looking at three things: - Time to get loot - lot of good points that the time needs to be increased - Interceptors too good - we're looking at ways to decrease the efficiency of using an interceptor to steal - Too effective as warp bubble - we're looking at making it less viable Have you looked at the reasoning for a blanket income nerf for rank-and-file null inhabitants?
Their reasoning was probably that, if widely used, these would open the nullsec bounty isk faucet a bit to wide, and were attempting to rebalance the faucet.
Really, the reception of this would have been much better had they not mentioned the 5% nerf to nullsec income.
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Fix Lag
623
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:50:00 -
[715] - Quote
Holy **** is CCP is completely out of touch.
Color me surprised. |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
549
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:50:00 -
[716] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:It would be nice to get some dev &/or CSM feedback on the issues brought up.
also: Why wasn't this first released in the F&I forum for feedback. Does CCP consider the proposed version a final draft? Based on feedback, we're looking at three things: - Time to get loot - lot of good points that the time needs to be increased - Interceptors too good - we're looking at ways to decrease the efficiency of using an interceptor to steal - Too effective as warp bubble - we're looking at making it less viable Thanks for the feedback so far. Any test feedback from Sisi would also be much appreciated. That's a very wishful thinking. Here's the actual gist of it: Scrap the ESS.
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handige harrie
Hedion University Amarr Empire
178
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:53:00 -
[717] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:It would be nice to get some dev &/or CSM feedback on the issues brought up.
also: Why wasn't this first released in the F&I forum for feedback. Does CCP consider the proposed version a final draft? Based on feedback, we're looking at three things: - Time to get loot - lot of good points that the time needs to be increased - Interceptors too good - we're looking at ways to decrease the efficiency of using an interceptor to steal - Too effective as warp bubble - we're looking at making it less viable Thanks for the feedback so far. Any test feedback from Sisi would also be much appreciated.
Yes, please fix only the stuff you've mentioned so no one in their right mind might get the idea that this would be a useful addition to the game. Baddest poster ever |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
18872
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:55:00 -
[718] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Their reasoning was probably that, if widely used, these would open the nullsec bounty isk faucet a bit to wide, and were attempting to rebalance the faucet.
Really, the reception of this would have been much better had they not mentioned the 5% nerf to nullsec income. The reception would have been much worse if they hadn't mentioned it, since it would have been discovered at most 3 minutes after deployment. The reception would have been ever so slightly better if they could present any reason whatsoever why that kind of mass nerf is needed, but apparently they couldn't.
If they were worried about the fauceting, they could have just have set it at 100% GÇô 10% + 12.5% or something equally modest as a first step and promise to monitor it for adjustments up and down (and obviously leaving the base amounts since there's no reason to adjust it). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3366
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 17:55:00 -
[719] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:It would be nice to get some dev &/or CSM feedback on the issues brought up.
also: Why wasn't this first released in the F&I forum for feedback. Does CCP consider the proposed version a final draft? Based on feedback, we're looking at three things: - Time to get loot - lot of good points that the time needs to be increased - Interceptors too good - we're looking at ways to decrease the efficiency of using an interceptor to steal - Too effective as warp bubble - we're looking at making it less viable Thanks for the feedback so far. Any test feedback from Sisi would also be much appreciated.
And thank you for the feedback. I look forward to additional iterations.
Also as to "Interceptors too good - we're looking at ways to decrease the efficiency of using an interceptor to steal": -- I realize you're probably only looking at how limit the interaction between the interceptor and the ESS, so this may be out of scope. But around the time of dominion, the interdiction nullification subsystem was "accidentallied" in one patch, such that I.N. T3's could warp out of a bubble, but they would still be dragged into bubbles. Perhaps rebalancing the nullification mechanic back to this would go a long way in reducing the safety these ships enjoy.
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Berluth Luthian
Meltdown.
173
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Posted - 2014.01.15 17:55:00 -
[720] - Quote
To me this seems like something that would be a lot more interesting in highsec. Basically let people tax PvE in highsec/lowsec through pvp enforcement. |
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