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Vulture/Nighthawk Targeting Range Question

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Ishmael Hansen	Posted - 2006.07.25 02:49:00 - [571] Edited by: Ishmael Hansen on 25/07/2006 02:56:45 Originally by: Oedus Caro Perhaps this has already been answered elsewhere in this thread, but to be perfectly honest, I can't afford to read through 19 pages in search of it. Is there any particular reason for the NH to have so much cargo space and so little grid, relative to all the other command ships? Cyclone 425 - 475 Sleipnir ........ 1210 - 1460 Ferox 475 - 555 Nighthawk ........ 1000 - 710 Prophecy 350 - 400 Absolution ........ 1300 - 1575 Brutix 425 - 440 Astarte ........ 1150 - 1450 Not only it has a gimped grid, it also has less 290 grid then the ferox (and that's before skills, with skills the gap will go higher). Even with 3x BCU's II, it's damage is laughable, and I have heavy missile spec lvl 4. It moves like a brick, like every other caldari ship, it's not even good at killing frigs. Atm I should be trainning for a dreadnought and I'm loosing time trainning for a sleipnir because the NH is simply CRAP. Think it was the first ship I didn't felt sorry to loose when I was ganked. The cargo space, fit some expanders and go do some courier missions in low sec, that might be the only thing it can do actually, pirates won't shoot you cos they'll be laughing for seing you in such a crappy ship.
Necrologic Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.07.25 02:56:00 - [572] I 1v1'd an ibis in mine a few days ago. For a minute or two i wasn't sure i was gonna win. (Yes, i really did have a 1v1 with an ibis)
Glarion Garnier Solar Wind	Posted - 2006.07.25 03:50:00 - [573] Originally by: Oedus Caro Perhaps this has already been answered elsewhere in this thread, but to be perfectly honest, I can't afford to read through 19 pages in search of it. Is there any particular reason for the NH to have so much cargo space and so little grid, relative to all the other command ships? Ill tell ya. Nh has so low DPS so in order to kill something it has to be able to shoot the target for a long time most cases tough NPC take twice as long to die at least vs if you were using Astarte, Sleip, Absolution. So all in all you need lots of ammo to do the job with it. It can kill stuff if you have very good skills. Tho even then its very slow at it. So ATM the 700m3 cargo space is much needed
Glarion Garnier Solar Wind	Posted - 2006.07.25 03:53:00 - [574] Edited by: Glarion Garnier on 25/07/2006 03:55:10 Edited by: Glarion Garnier on 25/07/2006 03:53:55 Originally by: Ishmael Hansen Cyclone 425 - 475 Sleipnir ........ 1210 - 1460 Ferox 475 - 555 Nighthawk ........ 1000 - 710 Prophecy 350 - 400 Absolution ........ 1300 - 1575 Brutix 425 - 440 Astarte ........ 1150 - 1450 Not only it has a gimped grid, it also has less 290 grid then the ferox (and that's before skills, with skills the gap will go higher). Even with 3x BCU's II, it's damage is laughable, and I have heavy missile spec lvl 4. It moves like a brick, like every other caldari ship, it's not even good at killing frigs. Atm I should be trainning for a dreadnought and I'm loosing time trainning for a sleipnir because the NH is simply CRAP. Think it was the first ship I didn't felt sorry to loose when I was ganked. The cargo space, fit some expanders and go do some courier missions in low sec, that might be the only thing it can do actually, pirates won't shoot you cos they'll be laughing for seing you in such a crappy ship. Well there is logic behind that one. See the Ferox works either as Rail ship or missile ship if you want to use it as rail ship it has to have that amount of PG to play with.
xeom Obsidian Sins	Posted - 2006.07.25 05:14:00 - [575] The fact that the cerb can do more damage then the NH is proof that a heavy hitting meduim missle isn't the only needed thing.All though i agree it should also be added. CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? \| Join[..SIN]
Ishmael Hansen	Posted - 2006.07.25 05:14:00 - [576] Large Shield extenders also use grid, I can't have the same setup as I have in the ferox, yeah perhaps I don't need it cos of ship natural resists, but give me a break, a Sleipnir can fit a gistii XLarge shield booster, and has a faction shield amp built in. And is there any reason for the NH to have a gimped grid compared to the ferox? Absolution kills a triple 500k sansha bs spawn in under a minute, NH needs like 3 weeks, and I'm not exagerating on the Absolution. Anyway, as I stated earlier, I'm less then 2 months from not caring at all after I train sleipnir. The crappy ship is even the most expensive of all the 4, maybe cos there are more caldari pilots, who knows.
Double TaP The Establishment	Posted - 2006.07.25 05:38:00 - [577] The problem with the NH is ship bonuses. I like heavy missiles, they work fine. Sure, I'm looking forward to Heavy Rockets, but they are in development, and we dont even know if they devs are going to gimp them to hell like they did the NH, so lets just focus on the main problem. THe ship bonuses. I suggest something drastic and different, because quite frankly thats what it needs: 5% bonus to shield resists 5% bonus to heavy missile RoF 10% Missile Velocity 10% bonus to Kinetic missile damage and 5% bonus to EM, Explosive, and Thermal missile damage per level. But people please quit coming in here and bumping. CCP Hammer said they are looking at bonuses, so its going to be changed, even if its not changed to what it should be, anything will be good. So sleep my children, wait til kali is closer, and then we bring the thread back so they dont forget.
Hel Kali Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 11:34:00 - [578] I have to use Fury missiles to break some bs tank .. expensive and targeting range s.cks really :p --------------------------------------------------------------- http://emt.linutx.be
ForumQuestionAsker	Posted - 2006.07.25 16:57:00 - [579] Originally by: Hel Kali I have to use Fury missiles to break some bs tank .. expensive and targeting range s.cks really :p and thats npc bs. to even think about attacking a play in a battleship...
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 16:59:00 - [580] Oh yes, third old thread being bumped today... /me requests forum filtering options --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Double TaP The Establishment	Posted - 2006.07.25 17:00:00 - [581] Originally by: Jim McGregor Oh yes, third old thread being bumped today... /me requests forum filtering options sigh. look at the dates on the past several pages...
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 17:01:00 - [582] Originally by: Double TaP sigh. look at the dates on the past several pages... I did. Unfortunantly after i posted. Well ok. You may continue. Jim McGregor will shut up. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ridjeck Thome	Posted - 2006.08.01 10:49:00 - [583] points at general discussion fourm and BC blog thread seems to be an update from Tux there http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=372848 sorry if the link doesnt work - not very technological like that
Ecce Drihten	Posted - 2006.08.01 20:54:00 - [584] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Ithildin Will the Drake have the Nighthawk's hated missile navigation prediction bonus? No, and it seems unlikely that Nighthawk keeps his Great news this week. That and BC agility being increased. It seems we need to wait for Kali, but at least we know its being fixed.
000Hunter000 Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.01 21:00:00 - [585] See, like i said, i just hung on to my pretty baby and now she's gonna get fixed L4 missions are so gonna rock then (that is if she's getting a damage bonus instead... please ccp? purty please? ) Banner will be updated shortly
Armi Tage Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.02 10:12:00 - [586] a 7th misslepoint would probably suffice fix Interbus Missions - don't remove them
Double TaP The Establishment	Posted - 2006.08.02 20:35:00 - [587] Originally by: Armi Tage a 7th misslepoint would probably suffice wouldnt that be nice
Double TaP The Establishment	Posted - 2006.08.06 16:58:00 - [588] Seen a lot of Nighthawk threads lately so thought I would bring this one back to discuss what people want the actual bonuses to be. Tux has said hes going to remove the TNP bonus most likely, but personally I would like to see the Guided Missile Precision bonus changed as well. So imo I think they should let us test a couple different bonuses on the test server, instead of jsut deciding and implementing. What I would like to see would be 5% resists 5% heavy missile rof and then for the command ship bonus i would love to see kestrel bonus 10% kinetic and 5% em, thermal, and exp damage per level. The 5% kinetic bonus is the most annoying thing in the world. With no velocity bonus this would have limited range, and if the new assault rockets come out with short range, they will have to be very short range to work on the nighthawk. So what do other people think?
Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.10.09 01:06:00 - [589] any news on the fix?
Roxanna Kell Holy Jihad	Posted - 2006.10.09 01:16:00 - [590] Edited by: Roxanna Kell on 09/10/2006 01:17:11 im not gonna read any of the posts, titles sayas it all. so SIGNED. LLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrroooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo00000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000oooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooY Quote: "Don't touch the red button!"
Roxanna Kell Holy Jihad	Posted - 2006.10.09 01:24:00 - [591] ACTUALY if the ship isnt gonna get any dmage bonus or something, why not give the nighthawk bonus to EW drones>? and double the drone bay huh, thats a nice little bonus dont ya think. caladari could do with a drone carrier ship. Quote: "Don't touch the red button!"
Roxanna Kell Holy Jihad	Posted - 2006.10.09 22:29:00 - [592] Edited by: Roxanna Kell on 09/10/2006 22:33:43 Edited by: Roxanna Kell on 09/10/2006 22:31:25 Originally by: Tuxford Vulture's targetting range seems a bit low. As for the Nighthawk's damage output then I don't think the comparison with Absolution and Astarte are exactly fair. Heavy missiles are a long range weapon, neutron blasters are a short range weapon. Sadly there is no cruiser size short range missile but that will hopefully be added sometime in the near future. near future my a. Caladari is gettign screwed bad, all the best ships are either too expensive. or just plain stupid, and nighthawk is plain stupid. iam maxed out on skills TUX. yet someone with everything at lvl 4, can prolly outdamage me and outtank me on any other field command ship,. screw this st about heavys being long range. 5000m's TUx 5000m's cant catch a damn frig, anf lock range is 75km max. long range is for turrets not missile, so either reduce heavs range or just take this ship off the game its the biggest piece of #$@#$@ you ever came up with. Quote: "Don't touch the red button!"
SavageThrash 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.09 23:15:00 - [593] Originally by: Roxanna Kell Edited by: Roxanna Kell on 09/10/2006 22:33:43 Edited by: Roxanna Kell on 09/10/2006 22:31:25 Originally by: Tuxford Vulture's targetting range seems a bit low. As for the Nighthawk's damage output then I don't think the comparison with Absolution and Astarte are exactly fair. Heavy missiles are a long range weapon, neutron blasters are a short range weapon. Sadly there is no cruiser size short range missile but that will hopefully be added sometime in the near future. near future my a. Caladari is gettign screwed bad, all the best ships are either too expensive. or just plain stupid, and nighthawk is plain stupid. iam maxed out on skills TUX. yet someone with everything at lvl 4, can prolly outdamage me and outtank me on any other field command ship,. screw this st about heavys being long range. 5000m's TUx 5000m's cant catch a damn frig, anf lock range is 75km max. long range is for turrets not missile, so either reduce heavs range or just take this ship off the game its the biggest piece of #$@#$@ you ever came up with. QFMFT snip Please do not discuss moderation in your signature -Eldo Woah^^^
Duke Yaker	Posted - 2006.10.10 03:54:00 - [594] Originally by: SavageThrash Originally by: Roxanna Kell Edited by: Roxanna Kell on 09/10/2006 22:33:43 Edited by: Roxanna Kell on 09/10/2006 22:31:25 Originally by: Tuxford Vulture's targetting range seems a bit low. As for the Nighthawk's damage output then I don't think the comparison with Absolution and Astarte are exactly fair. Heavy missiles are a long range weapon, neutron blasters are a short range weapon. Sadly there is no cruiser size short range missile but that will hopefully be added sometime in the near future. near future my a. Caladari is gettign screwed bad, all the best ships are either too expensive. or just plain stupid, and nighthawk is plain stupid. iam maxed out on skills TUX. yet someone with everything at lvl 4, can prolly outdamage me and outtank me on any other field command ship,. screw this st about heavys being long range. 5000m's TUx 5000m's cant catch a damn frig, anf lock range is 75km max. long range is for turrets not missile, so either reduce heavs range or just take this ship off the game its the biggest piece of #$@#$@ you ever came up with. QFMFT Nighthawk is FUBAR, is TUX anti Caladari, is Caladari gonna be turned into the worst race since there are more of us, achieve balance in a different way.
SavageThrash 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.10 11:56:00 - [595] I have already turned my back on caldari due to there lack of good pvp ships. Sure they have overpowered mission running ships but thats about it and i never run missions so caldari is useless to me. Can someone take all my SP outta caldari and let me reassign it elseware Yay for the tempest and the absolution, but i still have useless sp in caldari snip Please do not discuss moderation in your signature -Eldo Woah^^^
SavageThrash 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.10 11:56:00 - [596] Edited by: SavageThrash on 10/10/2006 11:59:42 double posty :( snip Please do not discuss moderation in your signature -Eldo Woah^^^
Faruda	Posted - 2006.10.10 13:55:00 - [597] Compare One side Astarte or Absolution or Sleipnir. Just right side. Deadly, tbh, side. another side pitiful Nighthawk. Antifrig command ship! To kill frigs you have to learn skills during four months!!! Great idea, Tux, just great. I propose to give upcoming Rokh antifrig abilities too. May be you(in CCP) don't know but in Eve not enough real ships which could kill frigates(Vigil, Rifter, Kestrel, Tristan, Punisher). And these pesky frigates are really dangerous! We are all scared... Our fleet commander cannot sleep due to frigate threat... Understand, guys, Caldaris do not deserve good PvP ships(except ECM, of course, but to be good in ECM you need one month, 4 caldari BS + some electronics skill, any race could do this trick). Lets Caldari eats what they deserved, mission-running Raven(and do not forget to nerf it), lawful capital ships, few good ECM ships(no DPS at all and die first), slow AF and covops, expensive as hell Cerberus(the only ship Caldari could proud), useless Manticore(it has small chance to kill noob in t1 Frigate), etc.
Waut 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.10 14:06:00 - [598] Havn't flown the Nighthawk yet but the locking range on the Vulture makes me wanna cry Outbreak! F* Yeah! Coming again to save the motherf*ing day yeah! In Soviet EVE, roids pop YOU
Roxanna Kell BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.10.10 17:19:00 - [599] Originally by: Waut Havn't flown the Nighthawk yet but the locking range on the Vulture makes me wanna cry Vulture is a fleet commadn at least, so yeah maybe its not meant to do much damage. but sort them out pls Quote: "Don't touch the red button!"
Mar vel Caldari H.Y.D.R.A.	Posted - 2006.10.11 03:53:00 - [600] wonders how many times people have to post and complain about the absolutely ineffective bonuses and DPS of nighthawks and vultures before someone decides to give them some love What's the realistic probability of this happening.....say, this year? How about before Kali1? How about before Kali2? IMHO, this will be one of those items that comes in at the tail end as an afterthought, but it's really not that complext to fix, now, is it? Are we talking about a half-dozen adjustments in a DB table, or re-creating the wheel? Is this even likely to be accomlished PRIOR ro eveyone going and training another racial CBC? I put my bets on "no", "no"....and "no", which is why I have 17 days left to train a different race's CBC and associated cruisers. But really, isn't this the whole point of these Forums, Tux? You folks have heard overwhelming, first-hand experience from the users of these ships that should give you enough of a basis to have considered making this change already. Word had it that the changes were in the works. Could you be more specific? IMHO, if CCP isn;t considering a CBC to be the big brother of the HAC, with similar (identical?) bonuses, AND making them combat effecitve as well, then you folks got it worng and need to go draft a new class of ship and call it the super-support-tanker or some such thing. There's not much to idolize about the Caldari CBC's atm, and that's a shame. No excuses. Fix the problem so we're not wasting our time here, folks. The level of training involved in CBC (Fleet and Force) skills training IS NOT insignificant - and most of the people who are advising you are your seasoned, longer-term players. Regards, Mar vel

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