Originally by: 000Hunter000

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*hunter waits patiently for the NH to be unnerfed*

Hell, i waited like 6 months before my cerb finally became usefull

Just a pitty cerbs are so overpriced atm, tbh i'd rather see ccp do something about that first

So ccp, my offer still stands, give me a cerb bpo and i will promise i will only sell them for twice the buildcosts

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Originally by: DayVV4lkEr

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I like the Caldari Command Ships and that has only one Reason:

You can get a much better Missile Setup for the so called Railboat then for the Missile Boat itself.
The Vulture has only a bit less damage because of one missing launcher, but it's much easier to tank and u can get BCU IIs in much easier.

I perosnally think the Nighthawk would be a good ship IF it would ever be able to fit a fullrak of Heavy Launchers AND a Tank!

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Originally by: j0sephine

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Edited by: j0sephine on 24/03/2006 17:12:30

So, let's see how damage of each field command ship scales in comparison to 'damage dealing' HAC of their race.

* Zealot: 4 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 6.7 'raw' turrets
* Absolution: 6 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 10 'raw' turrets

* Deimos: 5 turrets with 56.25% dmg bonus ... equals 7.8 turrets
* Astarte: 7 turrets with 56.25% dmg bonus ... equals 10.9 turrets

* Vagabond: 5 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 8.3 turrets
* Sleipnir: 7 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 11.7 turrets

* Cerberus: 5 launchers with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 8.3 launchers
* Nighthawk: 6 launchers with 25% dmg nonus ... equals 7.5 launchers

to summarize:

* absolution: 150% damage of zealot
* astarte: 140% damage of deimos
* sleipnir: 140% damage of vagabond
* nighthawk: 90% damage of cerberus

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Originally by: Zaphroid Eulthran

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Has anyone tried the Nighthawk with fury missiles?

The cap penalty shouldnt hurt if a passive tank is used, and the presision bonus on the NH should go some way towards countering the explosion radius of the Furies.

What is the Damage output of 6 scourge furies with a few BCUs in the lows?

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Originally by: Petra Kent

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As one of the few legitimate authorities out there on comparing the Nighthawk and the Cerberus, I'm going to agree with the people just looking at the paper. I have 8.5 million skill points in missiles, hac 5 and command ships 5. My Cerbie is leaps and bounds ahead of my Nighthawk in every useful way other than tanking ability. Every other command ship get's a leg up in raw DOT as compared with its HAC cousin. The Nighthawk needs a RoF bonus, and a velocity bonus. I do NOT want a frig swatter, I want something that can go toe-to-toe with another Field Command ship. If I'm really worried about frigs, I'll use P. Heavies, a target painter and the light drones I store in the Nighthawk's novelty-sized drone bay, m'kay?

Just thought I'd put in my two cents as someone who's taken the time to train before *****ing. Those complaining, illinformed or no are right.

And by the by: The Vulture is undrerated by everyone who complains about it by looking at the paper. Command bonuses and otherwise an Eagle? Yes, please. ;)

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Originally by: Skeltek

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Edited by: Skeltek on 01/05/2006 16:25:34

Originally by: j0sephine

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Edited by: j0sephine on 24/03/2006 17:12:30

So, let's see how damage of each field command ship scales in comparison to 'damage dealing' HAC of their race.

* Zealot: 4 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 6.7 'raw' turrets
* Absolution: 6 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 10 'raw' turrets

* Deimos: 5 turrets with 56.25% dmg bonus ... equals 7.8 turrets
* Astarte: 7 turrets with 56.25% dmg bonus ... equals 10.9 turrets

* Vagabond: 5 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 8.3 turrets
* Sleipnir: 7 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 11.7 turrets

* Cerberus: 5 launchers with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 8.3 launchers
* Nighthawk: 6 launchers with 25% dmg nonus ... equals 7.5 launchers

to summarize:

* absolution: 150% damage of zealot
* astarte: 140% damage of deimos
* sleipnir: 140% damage of vagabond
* nighthawk: 90% damage of cerberus

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I am not sure, but doesn¦t the simple fact, that you do not take the additional lowslot of the Nighthawk into accout or slotlayouts from the other ships totaly falsify your whole "calculations"?
for example if you put a BCU II on a Cerb and two BCU II on a Nighthawk, the Nighthawk would get an additional 10.172% faster fireing bonus(stacking penalty already taken into account; 10.172%faster firing equals aproximately 9.233% better RoF) and an additional good percentage of damage per missile, making it equal at least 8% more damage than the Cerb does.
And a ship with better damage than Cerb AND precision&targetnavigation bonuses is not to be neglected in terms of damage(think about the Precision Missile nerf).

I did not want to take all other advantages from the Nighthawk towards the Cerberus into account, because people here were mainly arguing it had far worse damageoutput than the Cerb, which is not true as I have shown with my tiny little lowslot...

best regards, Skeltek


ps: You might want to put a Turret on the seventh high slot of the Nighthawk; even though it has no bonuses on turrets, it should no be overseen. If I add this to my upper damage advantage, the Nighthawk should do at least 120% more damage than the Cerb, which suprisingly enough... implies a totaly different impression than your 90% from your Calculation.
ahh, I almost forgot to add that the Nighthawk has more than 3 times more Cap reserves and a 50% faster Capregeneration than Cerb, which should also not make much difference.

I make myself a fool, because I am trying to argue against powering up the only Command Ship that I will be able to fly in a long time...

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Originally by: Darling Hassasin

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Originally by: Skeltek

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Edited by: Skeltek on 01/05/2006 16:25:34

Originally by: j0sephine

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Edited by: j0sephine on 24/03/2006 17:12:30

So, let's see how damage of each field command ship scales in comparison to 'damage dealing' HAC of their race.

* Zealot: 4 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 6.7 'raw' turrets
* Absolution: 6 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 10 'raw' turrets

* Deimos: 5 turrets with 56.25% dmg bonus ... equals 7.8 turrets
* Astarte: 7 turrets with 56.25% dmg bonus ... equals 10.9 turrets

* Vagabond: 5 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 8.3 turrets
* Sleipnir: 7 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 11.7 turrets

* Cerberus: 5 launchers with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 8.3 launchers
* Nighthawk: 6 launchers with 25% dmg nonus ... equals 7.5 launchers

to summarize:

* absolution: 150% damage of zealot
* astarte: 140% damage of deimos
* sleipnir: 140% damage of vagabond
* nighthawk: 90% damage of cerberus

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I am not sure, but doesn¦t the simple fact, that you do not take the additional lowslot of the Nighthawk into accout or slotlayouts from the other ships totaly falsify your whole "calculations"?
for example if you put a BCU II on a Cerb and two BCU II on a Nighthawk, the Nighthawk would get an additional 10.172% faster fireing bonus(stacking penalty already taken into account; 10.172%faster firing equals aproximately 9.233% better RoF) and an additional good percentage of damage per missile, making it equal at least 8% more damage than the Cerb does.
And a ship with better damage than Cerb AND precision&targetnavigation bonuses is not to be neglected in terms of damage(think about the Precision Missile nerf).

I did not want to take all other advantages from the Nighthawk towards the Cerberus into account, because people here were mainly arguing it had far worse damageoutput than the Cerb, which is not true as I have shown with my tiny little lowslot...

best regards, Skeltek


ps: You might want to put a Turret on the seventh high slot of the Nighthawk; even though it has no bonuses on turrets, it should no be overseen. If I add this to my upper damage advantage, the Nighthawk should do at least 120% more damage than the Cerb, which suprisingly enough... implies a totaly different impression than your 90% from your Calculation.
ahh, I almost forgot to add that the Nighthawk has more than 3 times more Cap reserves and a 50% faster Capregeneration than Cerb, which should also not make much difference.

I make myself a fool, because I am trying to argue against powering up the only Command Ship that I will be able to fly in a long time...

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I fit 3 BCUII on my Cerb always ... i am told the nighthawk cant be set up with so many ...

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