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Vulture/Nighthawk Targeting Range Question

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SavageThrash	Posted - 2006.06.19 13:03:00 - [361] ^^^^ big problem for the nighthawk but the caracal wtfpwns all other t1 cruisers :) I have already sucked it up and realized that i might as well put my gunnery to use and train ammar :(
Nekora	Posted - 2006.06.19 13:05:00 - [362] Okay, now THAT is disturbing, the same firepower as the caracal but for one launcher. That second bonus soooo needs to be a ROF bonus
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.06.19 13:06:00 - [363] Originally by: SavageThrash I have already sucked it up and realized that i might as well put my gunnery to use and train ammar :( Or wait for the Tier 3 BS! Or fly a Railferox Or fly an Eagle Or fly a Moa So many options! Sarmaul, Naughty Boy, Weirda, Kaylana, readme please :)
Nekora	Posted - 2006.06.19 13:09:00 - [364] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: SavageThrash I have already sucked it up and realized that i might as well put my gunnery to use and train ammar :( Or wait for the Tier 3 BS! Or fly a Railferox Or fly an Eagle Or fly a Moa So many options! But none that are comparable with the Field command ships of the other races, Which is what 90% of the thread is about.
bringdapain	Posted - 2006.06.19 14:01:00 - [365] Dev's please respond, alot of concern'd NH pilots here and if you aint bring it in line with the other ships you are just gonna get me petition spaming you to change the last 2 months ive wasted of training the damn thing. DPS is low so extend range of missiles and targeting range!!!!!
Nekora	Posted - 2006.06.19 14:17:00 - [366] Extend range? um, right. Not so fond of that soulotion myself. I would prefer the missile precision bonus changed to ROF bonus, to bring it inline with the other ships.
de1337	Posted - 2006.06.19 14:31:00 - [367] Well i have my missile skills maxed and, 5% missile speed to my implants, and dps isnt a problem as im hitting every 5 secs just the range, the launcher type needs to be changed into a shorter range if dps is gonna be upped ie. Hybrids - Long Blasters - short of course ammo effects this but the main thing is the weapon you are using. Ive always seen missiles as a long range weapon and since the new skills come out they have been very specilized in caldari ships to be effective, alot of the gunnery skills cross over between the other 3 races but have no effect on missiles.
SavageThrash	Posted - 2006.06.19 14:55:00 - [368] Edited by: SavageThrash on 19/06/2006 14:54:49 Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: SavageThrash I have already sucked it up and realized that i might as well put my gunnery to use and train ammar :( Or wait for the Tier 3 BS! Or fly a Railferox Or fly an Eagle Or fly a Moa So many options! railferox = bad for pvp moa = long range low dmg, bad for pvp eagle = long range low dps, once again bad, and it dont work with blasters tier 3 bs long ways away and will prolly be a long range rail like moa and eagle, once again not what i would like for pvp. I dont want a longrange anti frigate ship what the ferox and eagle are. the only difference is that while and eagle can pop a frig before it knows whats going on the tier 3 bs maybe able to pop a cruiser or bc before it warps off.....
Nekora	Posted - 2006.06.19 14:56:00 - [369] damage is a problem as you arenot doing anywhere near what any of the other Field command ships are doing
bringdapain	Posted - 2006.06.19 15:31:00 - [370] Nope but you can get the resis's up to 80-90 for all and 9K sheild with a permentant med shield booster on, if you are already hitting the other CBC's 70KM before they are hitting you. Im not saying bonuses shouldnt be changed but the standerd range on it is a joke for a missile ship
Double TaP	Posted - 2006.06.19 15:38:00 - [371] Originally by: de1337 Well i have my missile skills maxed and, 5% missile speed to my implants, and dps isnt a problem as im hitting every 5 secs just the range, the launcher type needs to be changed into a shorter range if dps is gonna be upped You're not hitting every 5 seconds. Because I have my missile skills maxed as well, and with 2 BCS and Heavy Missile specialization 4 My RoF is only 6.8seconds or so. There needs to be RoF bonus, and a velocity bonus. It needs to be: 10% Missile Velocity and 5% shield resists per level Battlecruiser. 5% RoF and 5% Kinetic Damage per level Command Ship. If they really want to make it even, they could give 2 RoF bonuses and no kinetic damage bonus and let us pick our missile type. Just move the Missile Velocity Bonus up to the Command Ship Bonus and make the battlecruiser bonus 5% RoF as well.
Double TaP	Posted - 2006.06.19 15:39:00 - [372] Originally by: bringdapain Nope but you can get the resis's up to 80-90 for all and 9K sheild with a permentant med shield booster on, if you are already hitting the other CBC's 70KM before they are hitting you. Im not saying bonuses shouldnt be changed but the standerd range on it is a joke for a missile ship If they want to keep the targeting range how it is on the Nighthawk, thats fine, because its about same range as other Field Command Ships. But because its a t2 ship, it still needs a velocity bonus, so t2 ammo has an actual purpose on it.
de1337	Posted - 2006.06.19 16:28:00 - [373] Originally by: Double TaP Originally by: de1337 Well i have my missile skills maxed and, 5% missile speed to my implants, and dps isnt a problem as im hitting every 5 secs just the range, the launcher type needs to be changed into a shorter range if dps is gonna be upped You're not hitting every 5 seconds. Because I have my missile skills maxed as well, and with 2 BCS and Heavy Missile specialization 4 My RoF is only 6.8seconds or so. There needs to be RoF bonus, and a velocity bonus. It needs to be: 10% Missile Velocity and 5% shield resists per level Battlecruiser. 5% RoF and 5% Kinetic Damage per level Command Ship. If they really want to make it even, they could give 2 RoF bonuses and no kinetic damage bonus and let us pick our missile type. Just move the Missile Velocity Bonus up to the Command Ship Bonus and make the battlecruiser bonus 5% RoF as well. maybe you should get some 5% implants and officer mods then too eh???
Double TaP	Posted - 2006.06.19 17:08:00 - [374] Originally by: de1337 Originally by: Double TaP Originally by: de1337 Well i have my missile skills maxed and, 5% missile speed to my implants, and dps isnt a problem as im hitting every 5 secs just the range, the launcher type needs to be changed into a shorter range if dps is gonna be upped You're not hitting every 5 seconds. Because I have my missile skills maxed as well, and with 2 BCS and Heavy Missile specialization 4 My RoF is only 6.8seconds or so. There needs to be RoF bonus, and a velocity bonus. It needs to be: 10% Missile Velocity and 5% shield resists per level Battlecruiser. 5% RoF and 5% Kinetic Damage per level Command Ship. If they really want to make it even, they could give 2 RoF bonuses and no kinetic damage bonus and let us pick our missile type. Just move the Missile Velocity Bonus up to the Command Ship Bonus and make the battlecruiser bonus 5% RoF as well. maybe you should get some 5% implants and officer mods then too eh??? No officer mod increases your rate of fire more than a t2 bcu does. It only improves damage. Besides, doesnt it make you sad that you do less damage than all the other FCS's, and you're the one with the officer mods and implants!
Ganandorf	Posted - 2006.06.19 18:34:00 - [375] Basically, you want to get a raven of command ships, since as we all know a raven does way less dps then most other BS's yet pwns them all? imo nighthawk is fine if you're putting equal DPS on a nighthawk it'd be so overpowered, imagine a raven with 1100 DPS, 9k shield and 80% resistance across the board
Double TaP	Posted - 2006.06.19 19:32:00 - [376] Originally by: Ganandorf Basically, you want to get a raven of command ships, since as we all know a raven does way less dps then most other BS's yet pwns them all? imo nighthawk is fine if you're putting equal DPS on a nighthawk it'd be so overpowered, imagine a raven with 1100 DPS, 9k shield and 80% resistance across the board /emote looks through the thread for the person who said that missiles should do blaster dps. oops cant find it. but hey, yea i want a raven command ship. it does do less dps than a mega. and if i get webbed and up close to an astarte with 6 or 7 blasters, im probably ******. but im not sure if i can break a skilled ferox pilot's tank. the fact is IN COMPARISON, the FCS's all do about 140-150% the damage of their HAC counterpart. The nighthawk does LESS damage than a cerb, at about 90%. If you dont see a problem with that, than I don't think you ever will.
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.06.19 19:55:00 - [377] Originally by: Ganandorf Basically, you want to get a raven of command ships, since as we all know a raven does way less dps then most other BS's yet pwns them all? imo nighthawk is fine if you're putting equal DPS on a nighthawk it'd be so overpowered, imagine a raven with 1100 DPS, 9k shield and 80% resistance across the board It would still do less dps because it would still be missiles.
SavageThrash	Posted - 2006.06.19 20:58:00 - [378] Edited by: SavageThrash on 19/06/2006 21:06:44 ok with a rof bonus and kinetic missle bonus, you would get about 350 dps with decent everyday joe skills, now 2 rof bonuses would be approx 400 dps. thats where its at :) To look at it overall though, all thats needed is a rof bonus. although 2 would be sweet it would prolly be a little overpowered. considering that you can choose ur dmg type.
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.06.19 21:05:00 - [379] Originally by: SavageThrash ok with a rof bonus and kinetic missle bonus, you would get about 350 dps with decent everyday joe skills, now 2 rof bonuses would be approx 400 dps. thats where its at :) How many damage mods is that?
Double TaP	Posted - 2006.06.19 21:51:00 - [380] Originally by: SavageThrash Edited by: SavageThrash on 19/06/2006 21:06:44 ok with a rof bonus and kinetic missle bonus, you would get about 350 dps with decent everyday joe skills, now 2 rof bonuses would be approx 400 dps. thats where its at :) To look at it overall though, all thats needed is a rof bonus. although 2 would be sweet it would prolly be a little overpowered. considering that you can choose ur dmg type. tbh i dont see how 400dps is overpowered. thats if your numbers are right. no doubt you would need a bcs or 2 for sure. but dont forget about a velocity bonus. The raven, the cerb, and the caracal all have a 10% missile velocity bonus. This is badly needed on the nighthawk to make the t2 ammo useful. But put this on the test server: Battlecruiser skill bonus: 5% heavy missile Rof and 5% shield resists per level. CommandShip skill bonus: 10% heavy missile velocity and 5% heavy missile RoF Just put it on the test server for pete sakes so we can dual some of the other command ships and maybe a tier 1 bs or something. If it seems over done replace the 2nd RoF bonus with kinetic missile damage bonus. But its not a cerb, its a battlecruiser that should be doing 150% the damage of cerb.
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.06.19 22:53:00 - [381] Originally by: Double TaP Originally by: SavageThrash Edited by: SavageThrash on 19/06/2006 21:06:44 ok with a rof bonus and kinetic missle bonus, you would get about 350 dps with decent everyday joe skills, now 2 rof bonuses would be approx 400 dps. thats where its at :) To look at it overall though, all thats needed is a rof bonus. although 2 would be sweet it would prolly be a little overpowered. considering that you can choose ur dmg type. tbh i dont see how 400dps is overpowered. thats if your numbers are right. no doubt you would need a bcs or 2 for sure. but dont forget about a velocity bonus. The raven, the cerb, and the caracal all have a 10% missile velocity bonus. This is badly needed on the nighthawk to make the t2 ammo useful. But put this on the test server: Battlecruiser skill bonus: 5% heavy missile Rof and 5% shield resists per level. CommandShip skill bonus: 10% heavy missile velocity and 5% heavy missile RoF Just put it on the test server for pete sakes so we can dual some of the other command ships and maybe a tier 1 bs or something. If it seems over done replace the 2nd RoF bonus with kinetic missile damage bonus. But its not a cerb, its a battlecruiser that should be doing 150% the damage of cerb. If memory serves, and it may very well not, heavy beam absolutions and 250mm rail astartes get over 600 dps with a couple damage mods. So 400 dps seems perfectly fine for the nighthawk imo. If we don't see a fix to it's bonuses really damn soon there will be no point in flying one over the tier two missile bc that's coming out in a couple months.
Double TaP	Posted - 2006.06.19 23:40:00 - [382] Originally by: Necrologic Originally by: Double TaP Originally by: SavageThrash Edited by: SavageThrash on 19/06/2006 21:06:44 ok with a rof bonus and kinetic missle bonus, you would get about 350 dps with decent everyday joe skills, now 2 rof bonuses would be approx 400 dps. thats where its at :) To look at it overall though, all thats needed is a rof bonus. although 2 would be sweet it would prolly be a little overpowered. considering that you can choose ur dmg type. tbh i dont see how 400dps is overpowered. thats if your numbers are right. no doubt you would need a bcs or 2 for sure. but dont forget about a velocity bonus. The raven, the cerb, and the caracal all have a 10% missile velocity bonus. This is badly needed on the nighthawk to make the t2 ammo useful. But put this on the test server: Battlecruiser skill bonus: 5% heavy missile Rof and 5% shield resists per level. CommandShip skill bonus: 10% heavy missile velocity and 5% heavy missile RoF Just put it on the test server for pete sakes so we can dual some of the other command ships and maybe a tier 1 bs or something. If it seems over done replace the 2nd RoF bonus with kinetic missile damage bonus. But its not a cerb, its a battlecruiser that should be doing 150% the damage of cerb. Good stuff. If we don't see a fix to it's bonuses really damn soon there will be no point in flying one over the tier two missile bc that's coming out in a couple months. yes, especially if it can tank as well as the t1 ferox. then it will probably be just as good at 0.0 ratting as well.
Ishmael Hansen	Posted - 2006.06.19 23:48:00 - [383] quoting Jenstruant Fogg here, thx for the help, Enyo with: 4x Neutron Blaster II (Void) 4x Officer Damage Mods Hit 400+ DPS iirc So why would 400 dps would be overpowered for a NH, let's not forget bout trainning times for both ships. ps. - I hate the frig lobby :P
Ab Initio	Posted - 2006.06.19 23:56:00 - [384] Originally by: Ishmael Hansen quoting Jenstruant Fogg here, thx for the help, Enyo with: 4x Neutron Blaster II (Void) 4x Officer Damage Mods Hit 400+ DPS iirc So why would 400 dps would be overpowered for a NH, let's not forget bout trainning times for both ships. ps. - I hate the frig lobby :P Just FYI. If you're going to make comparisons. Probably more relevant not to use the best damage mods in game to prove your point. Unless you plan on doing the same on the NH.
Double TaP	Posted - 2006.06.20 00:00:00 - [385] Originally by: Ab Initio Originally by: Ishmael Hansen quoting Jenstruant Fogg here, thx for the help, Enyo with: 4x Neutron Blaster II (Void) 4x Officer Damage Mods Hit 400+ DPS iirc So why would 400 dps would be overpowered for a NH, let's not forget bout trainning times for both ships. ps. - I hate the frig lobby :P Just FYI. If you're going to make comparisons. Probably more relevant not to use the best damage mods in game to prove your point. Unless you plan on doing the same on the NH. Hes right ^^. but something tells me that if you fit 4 Estamels BCS's the dps wouldnt be much higher
Ishmael Hansen	Posted - 2006.06.20 00:02:00 - [386] even with officer mods I don't think a frigate should make more dps then a ship a couple ship classes higher, imo. And I don't think officer bcu's would increase that much the dps. Small guns track way better then med ones, they can hit anything, etc...
Ab Initio	Posted - 2006.06.20 00:06:00 - [387] Originally by: Ishmael Hansen even with officer mods I don't think a frigate should make more dps then a ship a couple ship classes higher, imo. And I don't think officer bcu's would increase that much the dps. Small guns track way better then med ones, they can hit anything, etc... You realise that with those mods your talking about.. You could probably buy a FLEET of ships a couple of classes up from you? :)
Ishmael Hansen	Posted - 2006.06.20 00:06:00 - [388] Don't mind me, I'm just sour that I need to train another race to be able to make some damage.
Ishmael Hansen	Posted - 2006.06.20 00:09:00 - [389] Originally by: Ab Initio Originally by: Ishmael Hansen even with officer mods I don't think a frigate should make more dps then a ship a couple ship classes higher, imo. And I don't think officer bcu's would increase that much the dps. Small guns track way better then med ones, they can hit anything, etc... You realise that with those mods your talking about.. You could probably buy a FLEET of ships a couple of classes up from you? :) I do, but unfortunatelly the NH would still be crap ;)
SavageThrash	Posted - 2006.06.20 00:52:00 - [390] Edited by: SavageThrash on 20/06/2006 00:51:55 Those numbers are with 3 t2 bcu and my skills , no quickfit here i actully fly the nh :) also this is all done with t1 ammo.

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