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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.20 20:51:00 -
[211]
 Originally by: Denrace
The UBERHACs you so speak of are a necessary part of EVE.
No, complete fallacy. They are ONE way of doing CBC's. Other, perfectly viable ways have been suggested. I'd boost tanking and command abilities in place of the game they should never of been doing in the first place, thanks!
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Shreven Bulks
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Posted - 2006.04.21 07:54:00 -
[212]
Have been suggested (over and over) primarily by you. I can only hope the squeeky wheel effect you seem to be going for is interperated by the Devs as someone trying to protect their hac business, or based on some other bias.
Your motivations aside, I'll bring up a point that was brought up much earlier in the thread: The cruiser sized ships should NOT be the end-all-be-all damage dealers among T2 ships: it makes no sense in light of the inevitability of, say...T2 Dreadnaughts.
This game is, by and large, about combat and there are a lot of hulls out there and I'll wager that there are going to be damage-dealing ships in every class as there have been so far. A lot of people claim to not want a damage oriented T2 Battleship, but with three chasis per race by Kali...um... I think we're going to see at least one, and I would be not at all surprised if there were two per race with different orientations as was done with the HACs.
A lot of people might find that alarming (especially reactionary HAC BPO owners), but this is one area I have faith in the Devs on and I fully expect the trend that started with the Command BCs to continue. The field CBCs ARE NOT just big HACs: they have lower resists and the (for now, foolishly) overlooked ability to mount gang-assist mods. I fully expect the combat oriented Battleships to be similarly (if not more) complex than the CBCs. They will deal ass-loads of damage, but also perform some other function(s) that will make them more than simple HACs squared, and will likely be rather skill and ISK intensive.
Anyway...Your assertion that the CBCs should be super-specialized is baaaad. They are not what people want. Look at stealth bombers and logistics cruisers. The Fleet Command BCs are already doomed to low popularity do to their pop-gun DPSs, being worthwhile only in bigger fleet combat.
Oh, and BUMP... FIX THE NIGHTHAWK!
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lollerskates
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Posted - 2006.04.21 08:16:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Hamatitio
Astarte / Absolution do like 1300 DPS
Where do people get these rediculous numbers?
My absolution does 732 DPS with conflag crystals using 6 heavy pulse II, 3 heat sink II, and command ships 5.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.04.21 10:36:00 -
[214]
"Where do people get these rediculous numbers?
My absolution does 732 DPS with conflag crystals using 6 heavy pulse II, 3 heat sink II, and command ships 5."
That's because you suck ;D
but no, more seriously with maxed out all skills and tech.2 crystals for Absolution it's something like 745 dps from lasers and 70 dps from 5x tech.2 small drones ... so ~817 dps total. Astarte hits somewhat harder, with blasters being shorter range heavier hitters and stuff.
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Jin Entres
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Posted - 2006.04.21 11:14:00 -
[215]
Originally by: j0sephine
"Where do people get these rediculous numbers?
My absolution does 732 DPS with conflag crystals using 6 heavy pulse II, 3 heat sink II, and command ships 5."
That's because you suck ;D
but no, more seriously with maxed out all skills and tech.2 crystals for Absolution it's something like 745 dps from lasers and 70 dps from 5x tech.2 small drones ... so ~817 dps total. Astarte hits somewhat harder, with blasters being shorter range heavier hitters and stuff.
What's the range on the Absolution with that kind of damage, by the way?
Astarte has 1.5km opt / 8.4km f/o (sharps. IV, traj.an. IV, CS IV) and with 3 damage mods and 3 neutrons, 4 ions (it can't fit much better with a decent setup, 1 neutron more for those with a repper with decent PG use) the DPS is 914 (spec IV, surgical IV, rapid V, +3% Rof hardwiring, +5% medium hybrid hardwiring) + 100 from 5 Valkyrie II's (combat drone IV, spec II, interfacing IV)
Lately I prefer two damage mods, however, because a 3 slot tank didn't make me feel safe enough. Absolution has one more low to make a 4 slot tank and keep 3 damage mods, and it has 1 med less but it doesn't need an injector without MWD. Anyway, with 2 damage mods the guns' DPS is 811.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.04.21 15:11:00 -
[216]
"What's the range on the Absolution with that kind of damage, by the way?"
Well, tech.2 heavy pulse is 12 km base optimal, so with maxed out skill and the ammo used for calculation that'd be 12 * 1.25 * 0.5 = 7.5 km optimal and 4 * 1.25 = 5 km falloff ... for ~10-12 km total range. A bit more if you manage to put some tracking gear there, i guess o.O;
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Talmssar
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Posted - 2006.04.21 19:12:00 -
[217]
Edited by: Talmssar on 21/04/2006 19:12:27
2nd daily dev answer request bumb.
I just prefer that all have good time here. |
000Hunter000
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Posted - 2006.04.21 19:26:00 -
[218]
*hunter waits patiently for the NH to be unnerfed*
Hell, i waited like 6 months before my cerb finally became usefull 
Just a pitty cerbs are so overpriced atm, tbh i'd rather see ccp do something about that first
So ccp, my offer still stands, give me a cerb bpo and i will promise i will only sell them for twice the buildcosts
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Shemaul
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Posted - 2006.04.22 10:21:00 -
[219]
Market/escrow prices never lies:
Nighthawk: around 160/180M.
Vulture: aroun a bit more than 100M.
Crappy prices for crappy ships...
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Max Flame
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Posted - 2006.04.22 12:49:00 -
[220]
Originally by: lollerskates
Originally by: Hamatitio
Astarte / Absolution do like 1300 DPS
Where do people get these rediculous numbers?
My absolution does 732 DPS with conflag crystals using 6 heavy pulse II, 3 heat sink II, and command ships 5.
I have command ships 5, med pulse spec 5 and get 783 DPS with conflags and 3 hs 2. With 3 TS HS i get 828dps. So i really dont know where they get their numbers with out actually having the skills ^^
I like to kill people
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Corn Meal
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Posted - 2006.04.24 03:37:00 -
[221]
well...as far as i know the nighthawk has yet to change... soo
do the devs read the boards still?
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Talmssar
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Posted - 2006.04.24 06:47:00 -
[222]
3rd daily dev answer request bumb.
I just prefer that all have good time here. |
Jagaroth
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Posted - 2006.04.24 10:24:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Shemaul
Market/escrow prices never lies:
Nighthawk: around 160/180M.
Vulture: aroun a bit more than 100M.
Crappy prices for crappy ships...
I can't tell you how delighted I was when I found a Vulture on escrow for 100m. I wanted one for the slot and command bonuses, not for combat. If I see another one at that price (or less!) I'll buy it.
Sadly, when I tried to get inside the one I'd bought I found to my horror that I'd forgotten to scroll down and check the tertiary skills. Sneaky logistics requirement 
*Jagaroth sighs and continues training
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Shemaul
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Posted - 2006.04.24 11:11:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Jagaroth
Originally by: Shemaul
Market/escrow prices never lies:
Nighthawk: around 160/180M.
Vulture: aroun a bit more than 100M.
Crappy prices for crappy ships...
I can't tell you how delighted I was when I found a Vulture on escrow for 100m. I wanted one for the slot and command bonuses, not for combat. If I see another one at that price (or less!) I'll buy it.
Sadly, when I tried to get inside the one I'd bought I found to my horror that I'd forgotten to scroll down and check the tertiary skills. Sneaky logistics requirement
*Jagaroth sighs and continues training
Don't waste time and money for Caldari Command Ships.
The Cerberus is far more efficent than a Night (or a Vulture) in all situations.
Sadly, all builders know that, so is badly hard to find one for less than 200m isks.
In any case, is pretty silly that a next generation Battlecruisers, bigger than a hac, with a skills request so much bigger than a hac is soo weak compared to their smaller cousin.
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Calprimus
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Posted - 2006.04.24 11:15:00 -
[225]
Sorry in advance to sligthly derail the topic.
Has anyone tried mission Lv 4 with a NH yet?
Avoiding the hardest ones (enemy abounds, drowing the enslavers 2/2) would you think this ship feasible to operate the average lv4?
Would you also change from passive shield tanking to an active a la cerberus?
Many thanks in advance
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Jagaroth
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Posted - 2006.04.24 12:28:00 -
[226]
Edited by: Jagaroth on 24/04/2006 12:31:15
Edited by: Jagaroth on 24/04/2006 12:31:00
Originally by: Shemaul
Originally by: Jagaroth
Originally by: Shemaul
Market/escrow prices never lies:
Nighthawk: around 160/180M.
Vulture: aroun a bit more than 100M.
Crappy prices for crappy ships...
I can't tell you how delighted I was when I found a Vulture on escrow for 100m.  I wanted one for the slot and command bonuses, not for combat. If I see another one at that price (or less!) I'll buy it.
Sadly, when I tried to get inside the one I'd bought I found to my horror that I'd forgotten to scroll down and check the tertiary skills. Sneaky logistics requirement
*Jagaroth sighs and continues training
Don't waste time and money for Caldari Command Ships.
The Cerberus is far more efficent than a Night (or a Vulture) in all situations.
Sadly, all builders know that, so is badly hard to find one for less than 200m isks.
In any case, is pretty silly that a next generation Battlecruisers, bigger than a hac, with a skills request so much bigger than a hac is soo weak compared to their smaller cousin.
The important part of my previous post has been highlighted. The Cerberus cannot carry command mods, which is what command ships are for.
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TanSpectra
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Posted - 2006.04.24 12:42:00 -
[227]
NH doesnt really tank that well 700grid is 300 less than the Ferox so all those uber tanking setups just wont fit
(Shield tankers need a lot of grid).
Well you could leave the launchers off.
If you dont believe me try it fit 3 T2 L shield extenders then try to fit 6 launchers.
I currently use an active setup but concentrate on increasing shield resistences, even using only 1 T2 L ext I cant fit a L shield booster and have to use a med.
And yes I can do lvl4 missions the only problem is killing BS's takes 4ever. Friggs I kill with drones, as an anti frigg ship it a good thing NH carries 5 light drones.
It is very effective against cruisers though.
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Corn Meal
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Posted - 2006.04.24 17:53:00 -
[228]
I used one for a bit in lvl 4's and it can tank the whole spawns fine if setup with overprice crap... had a xl gist b booster the 170 cap one and gist amp along with aporp harnders.... thing is it cant do the dmg needed to kill some of the BS's
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Talmssar
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Posted - 2006.04.25 08:46:00 -
[229]
4th daily bumb for DEV/GM's answer.
Reply to NH questions about lvl 4 missioning. It can be done. It can kill even vengeange mission end BS, and TII setup IS enought. You just need to know how to fit. I wont reveal how I fit because fun part is to find right setup (I use same setup to all missions). You can waste money to expensive gist boosters, but why to do so if you CAN do it without warp outs. Tho my skills may have something to do.
I just prefer that all have good time here. |
Skeltek
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Posted - 2006.04.25 20:13:00 -
[230]
I agree with most of what "Maya Rkell" said.
I bought two Vultures and a Nighthawk some time ago. Did lvl4 missions with my Raven, when everyon said that they were undoable solo(that was long ago though), I switched to Cerberus when it was quiet new. I NEVER rejected a mission solo.
Did a LOT of missions so far, got two Navy Ravens(when there were no "lower amount of LP" offers yet in exsitance for them).
To know how to fit your ship and understand it¦s phylosophy is the key to victory. Sadly to say, some people¦s horizons are not able to see certain things...
What men said after god gave him a screwdriver:
"God? Why are you giving me this? It is totaly useless to hit nails when I am building a house. Give me a larger hammer than my old one NOW!"
I was looking forward to getting able to fly Command Ships. If you know how to fit, the ship has it¦s purpose. There is more behind game mechanics than sheer damage/s output. If you guys realy want damage/s, go and train Cerberus or some other HAC.
If you want a certain type of ship to get introduced to a game, make that suggestion somewhere and not try changing the purpose of existing ones to something totaly different.
Ohh, there are also a few more suggestions I would like to ask for:
-make logistic ships 10 times worse: currently they can compensate the firepower of 10 enemy ships instead of only one.
-ECMs currently cannot kill any ships and the damage per second is horrible.
-best make all ships the same, any difference between factions cause certain imbalances are inavoidably generated.
-in general make my ships stronger and the other ships weaker.
Believe me, arguments do not have to be that complicated. Even if you would keep most of your arguments more simple, there will always remain a few that are not capable to recognize the incomplete logic behind them.
And here some more serious comment I would like to say: Key to a good shield tank is not based on shield extenders. That would be like trying to compensate lack of shield resistances by using even more cap rechargers... but probably noone will understand my sarkasm and parallels to other Forum threads anyway <.<
kind regards, Skeltek
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.04.25 20:25:00 -
[231]
Edited by: j0sephine on 25/04/2006 20:25:36
"I was looking forward to getting able to fly Command Ships. If you know how to fit, the ship has it¦s purpose."
Can you reveal this purpose you've found for the Nighthawk..?
"There is more behind game mechanics than sheer damage/s output. If you guys realy want damage/s, go and train Cerberus or some other HAC."
Or one could train for any of the other field command ships, and have both the sheer damage output and the same amount of gang modules the Nighthawk can fit...
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.04.25 20:34:00 -
[232]
Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 24/03/2006 17:12:30
"As for the Nighthawk's damage output then I don't think the comparison with Absolution and Astarte are exactly fair."
Let's try a more fair comparison. then. Field commands are effectively "beefed up HACs" since they rely on the heavy assault skill, and are expected to be "damage dealers" of the command ships according to their description.
So, let's see how damage of each field command ship scales in comparison to 'damage dealing' HAC of their race.
* Zealot: 4 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 6.7 'raw' turrets
* Absolution: 6 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 10 'raw' turrets
* Deimos: 5 turrets with 56.25% dmg bonus ... equals 7.8 turrets
* Astarte: 7 turrets with 56.25% dmg bonus ... equals 10.9 turrets
* Vagabond: 5 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 8.3 turrets
* Sleipnir: 7 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 11.7 turrets
* Cerberus: 5 launchers with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 8.3 launchers
* Nighthawk: 6 launchers with 25% dmg nonus ... equals 7.5 launchers
to summarize:
* absolution: 150% damage of zealot
* astarte: 140% damage of deimos
* sleipnir: 140% damage of vagabond
* nighthawk: 90% damage of cerberus
... do you still think one ship out of these 4 doesn't stand out in curious manner, here.. as far as damage output goes? :/
(in order to make the Nighthawk match the other field commands, she'd need to be given one more launcher hardpoint --as all other field commands get +2 primary weapons-- ... and one precision bonus changed to 25% rof, since the field commands practically copy the damage boosts of 'their' HACs ... with Nighthawk being one odd exception)
Nice post I have the same feelings about the nighthawk
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.04.25 20:53:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Heh j0.
You know as well as I do that even with nerfed prescisons it's gonna be godly against frigs, and better still be able to do that at long range.
Some T2 ships are highly specalist. I don't really see this as a problem. People want a Caldari ship which swats frigates, and the Nighthawk IS that.
Sorry i didnt feel like adding this to my last post but this is wat really gets me.
Moa = anti frigate
caracal = Anti frig with perscion
Eagle = Anti frigate
cerb = anti frigate with perscion or withou tperscion
nighthawk = anti frigate
vulture = Anti frigate
Anyone see a problem here? Caldari has enough anti frigate ships and who said that caldari wanted ANOTHER anti frigate ship that also has less damage then the cerb? I am sure didn't. Caldari dont need another anti frigate ship and a belive most people will agree. Caldari just needs a ship with equal damage to the other command ships or maybe slightly less as it is just a f1 to f6 ship.
If you want an anti frig ship get a caracal or cerb for goodness sakes not a command battle cruiser. A battle cruiser is ment to be an anti cruiser ship anyways. Just like command ships are supposed to be anti hac and a high damage ship.
Please dont give the excuse that caldari needs another anti frigate ship as well certianly dont need another or want another.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.25 21:01:00 -
[234]
Once MORE: Prescison is being nerfed. The other missile ships are losing much of that capacity.
Does the NH need bonuses changing? Yes
Do the other CBC's need changing into true CBC's rather than UberHAC's? Yes
Equivalent damage to the HAC, far better tanking and command abilities plzkthx.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.04.25 21:02:00 -
[235]
"Equivalent damage to the HAC, far better tanking and command abilities plzkthx."
Would be nice, tbh ^^
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Vina
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Posted - 2006.04.25 21:24:00 -
[236]
Hell, I'd be happy if the 3% to gang module bonus on the vulture got changed to like 20%.
-----------------------------------
btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai |
Denrace
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Posted - 2006.04.25 22:05:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Vina
Hell, I'd be happy if the 3% to gang module bonus on the vulture got changed to like 20%.
Damn right.
The 3% bonus just is'nt enough to cut it for a FLEET command ship.
The only way for these ships to be effective is if you have Siege Warfare Spec 5, Squad Command 5, Command Ships 5 and Cybernetics 5 with a damned expensive Mindlink in (which you can lose when podded).
1) Boost the Nighthawk.
2) Give Vulture bonuses to MISSILES. Damage and Velocity.
3) Boost the 3% Warfare link bonus to 10% or 15%.
Den
________________________________________
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Talmssar
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Posted - 2006.04.26 07:58:00 -
[238]
5th daily dev/gm answer bumbbumb...
I just prefer that all have good time here. |
Snowpig
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Posted - 2006.04.26 08:35:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Denrace
Originally by: Vina
Hell, I'd be happy if the 3% to gang module bonus on the vulture got changed to like 20%.
Damn right.
The 3% bonus just is'nt enough to cut it for a FLEET command ship.
The only way for these ships to be effective is if you have Siege Warfare Spec 5, Squad Command 5, Command Ships 5 and Cybernetics 5 with a damned expensive Mindlink in (which you can lose when podded).
1) Boost the Nighthawk.
2) Give Vulture bonuses to MISSILES. Damage and Velocity.
3) Boost the 3% Warfare link bonus to 10% or 15%.
Den
3) signed --- 1) and 2) together make one of them (Vult./NH) useless.
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Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.04.26 14:18:00 -
[240]
bump
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