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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Chain Gang
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:13:00 -
[451]
Quote: Quite sure. Because the point still stands that it was not CVA who dishonored the agreement.
But your not denying that he never said it (wise move) ... because you would look rather silly.
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Manfred Doomhammer
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:13:00 -
[452]
Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: Chain Gang
So are you saying that Aralis never said, that ... you sure you want to go down that road
Quite sure. Because the point still stands that it was not CVA who dishonored the agreement.
aralis might even have said all that, though i doubt it was in this exact form , and in the same context you used... its one thing saying that someone said several things, but then, what was the context he did? ----
Manfred Doomhammer CEO ShadowTec Inc.
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Clavius XIV
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:17:00 -
[453]
Originally by: Mr Trouble
exactly what part of anything I have said is incorrect? 1) CVA did not claim the space, they only planned to at some point in the future
Incorrect CVA claimed the space. The defination of the claim was made available to ISS when they asked (as well as neighboring alliances, namely Huzzah). There are friendly corperations who have asked, been granted permission to put up, and have POS up in the constellation. The only "plans" for the constellation that were discussed with ISS were plans for further development of already claimed systems, not plans to claim, as it was already claimed per the communication with ISS in February.
Quote:
2) They delcared war on ISS over some POS in space they did not currently claim
Incorrect. The conflict revolves around stations space that ISS was informed was part of CVAs claim in February when they asked. Misinterpretation of the word "to" in the claim while bizzare is at least understandable. The official statement of refusal to remove the starbases on the basis that the claim was too vague, the space was not "sufficently developed", and thus in their mind our claim was invalid was what lead to war.
Quote:
3) Declaring war on the ISS and being threatening and aggressive from the outset doesnt exactly help their cause
What exactly do you propose? Useing harsh language? All diplomatic options were exercised. Keep in mind that ignoring of our communications, in addition to us observing them onlining multiple weapon batteries while ignoring us gave us more cause for alarm than the prior incidents with small towers with single weapon batteries and moon miners. Acting swiftly in this case was important becuse of the possiblity of a permanant sructure (outpost) going up in our space.
At least the current situation can still be resolved with relatively minimal losses. Warships and starbases can be moved eventualy. Outposts are permanant. Once an outpost goes up there is no way that ISS can move it out and still retain their investment.
Quote:
4) Aralis has a personal dislike for the ISS as outlined in his leaked conversation with an MC official, he doesnt want them in Providence AT ALL
Golan well knows that the ultimate goal of the CVA has always been to have Providence recgonized as an offical part of the Amarr empire. ISS couldn't care less about the Empire so long as it makes money for its shareholders.
Nevertheless, at least they do not fire on neutrals, so we have some things in common. If they had built outside of the CVA claim I can assure you war would not have been the result, regardless of our feelings as to their piety or dedication to the Empire.
Quote:
5) ISS offered to move the POS 1 system further out from CVA space - they rejected this outright
Incorrect, ISS offered to move it on system further INTO CVA space.
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Mr Trouble
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:21:00 -
[454]
Originally by: Clavius XIV
1) CVA did not claim the space, they only planned to at some point in the future
Incorrect CVA claimed the space. The defination of the claim was made available to ISS when they asked (as well as neighboring alliances, namely Huzzah). There are friendly corperations who have asked, been granted permission to put up, and have POS up in the constellation. The only "plans" for the constellation that were discussed with ISS were plans for further development of already claimed systems, not plans to claim, as it was already claimed per the communication with ISS in February.
Rubbish - you never claimed that space. Its only when ISS expressed an interest that your borders 'suddenly' expanded by 200%.
You must think people are stupid or blind. We know what CVA is playing at here - you don't want ISS in Providence at any price.
Have you considered that the local population stands to gain much from ISS developing the region? I for one want their outposts, especially if they are in 'deep providence'.
The truth is CVA are just being greedy, you're too small to manage providence, and your 'comedy claim' over half of it is just a joke. Grow up and stop acting like children.
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Garreck
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:22:00 -
[455]
Edited by: Garreck on 21/04/2006 16:23:17
Originally by: Chain Gang
But your not denying that he never said it (wise move) ... because you would look rather silly.
I can certainly deny he's never said it to me or expressed such sentiments to the alliance. I cannot speak for what goes on in private conversations between Aralis and others because...well...they're private conversations between Aralis and others.
This is hardly relevant to ISS breaking their agreement with the CVA, though. Indeed, ISS's actions seems to affirm Aralis' alleged ill-will towards them.
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Mr Trouble
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:24:00 -
[456]
Originally by: Garreck
This is hardly relevant to ISS breaking their agreement with the CVA, though. Indeed, it seems to affirm Aralis' alleged ill-will towards them.
No, it proves their are ulterior motives.
WHY are CVA so against the ISS developing an area of space they rarely if ever are seen in, have no assets etc - when this development will benefit all of providence.
CVA are being short-sighted, and I hope you get put in your place.
I'm sure ISS would love another 'free outpost'.
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Manfred Doomhammer
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:24:00 -
[457]
Originally by: Chain Gang
Quote: Quite sure. Because the point still stands that it was not CVA who dishonored the agreement.
But your not denying that he never said it (wise move) ... because you would look rather silly.
anyways, your trying to twist quotes and partial quotes ripped out of their context to support your agenda to make CVA look bad. You should try to do it with more research and by presenting proof instead of some deformed quotes.
Now, do me a personal Favor, and even though you are not affiliated with Mr Mongo Peck from the ISSN, give him a nice greeting from me if he joins your Corporation (wich he creates btw) again to look for another employee. ----
Manfred Doomhammer CEO ShadowTec Inc.
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Krackerjack
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:26:00 -
[458]
Originally by: Manfred Doomhammer
anyways, your trying to twist quotes and partial quotes ripped out of their context to support your agenda to make CVA look bad. You should try to do it with more research and by presenting proof instead of some deformed quotes.
CVA have done a remarkably good job of making them look bad by themselves.
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Garreck
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:27:00 -
[459]
Originally by: Mr Trouble
No, it proves their are ulterior motives.
ISS breaking their agreement proves that the CVA has ulterior motives?
Nice.
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Mr Trouble
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:28:00 -
[460]
Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: Mr Trouble
No, it proves their are ulterior motives.
ISS breaking their agreement proves that the CVA has ulterior motives?
Nice.
No, CVA suddently expanding their borders by 200% then wardeccing ISS would prove that alone.
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Mr Trouble
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:29:00 -
[461]
I repeat my question:
WHY are CVA so against the ISS developing an area of space they rarely if ever are seen in, have no assets etc - when this development will benefit all of providence?
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Cell Satimo
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:31:00 -
[462]
Originally by: Whoe
Originally by: Cell Satimo This whole thread is a classic. ... Maybe we should give the whole incident a memorable title .. like, erm .. an Acryonm like 'GNW', perhaps ..
I'm thinking providence-gate?
That works well: 'PG': The CONCORD rating to be applied when defining borders of one's alliance space and/or future expansions.
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Chain Gang
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:34:00 -
[463]
So lets recap ...
1) Your leader in a conversation states he "hates the iss" and no matter where they go in providence he will find an excuse to "declare war on them"
2) You give information about your borders to the ISS which your own guys find confusing and unclear and include the whole of providence under the section "Soon"
3) You declare War on an alliance that has asked all its members to stay away from your space and "claim" its in the name of peace.
Your funny CVA ........ I suggest the ISS keep you as a Pet.
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Orilion
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:38:00 -
[464]
Edited by: Orilion on 21/04/2006 16:38:14 Before anyone replies to Chain Gang, please dont do it... his purpose is obvious here. Same can be applied to Mr Trouble. Lets not waste out efforts on alt¦s please.
Edit, Name
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Goodtime Girl
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:40:00 -
[465]
Urm looks like the CVA chains been rattled
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Garreck
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:42:00 -
[466]
Originally by: Goodtime Girl Urm looks like the CVA chains been rattled
The rattling will take place in space. I've been ordered by my betters to be silent.
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Mr Trouble
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:43:00 -
[467]
Edited by: Mr Trouble on 21/04/2006 16:43:54 Well come on, I'm sure the residents of Providence are dying to know why CVA want to deprive them of two outposts.
so I repeat my question a third time:
WHY are CVA so against the ISS developing an area of space they rarely if ever are seen in, have no assets etc - when this development will benefit all of providence?
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Chain Gang
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:43:00 -
[468]
Quote: The rattling will take place in space. I've been ordered by my betters to be silent.
Good Boy
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Sushi Tanaka
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Posted - 2006.04.21 17:18:00 -
[469]
Edited by: Sushi Tanaka on 21/04/2006 17:19:35
Originally by: Mr Trouble so I repeat my question a third time:
WHY are CVA so against the ISS developing an area of space they rarely if ever are seen in, have no assets etc - when this development will benefit all of providence?
No need to repeat a misphrased question.
You should be asking "why is the ISS breaking its own charter in defying the CVA claim?" and not trying to derail the conversation.
(EDIT: spelling) |
Adlee
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Posted - 2006.04.21 17:22:00 -
[470]
Originally by: Mr Trouble
WHY are CVA so against the ISS developing an area of space they rarely if ever are seen in, have no assets etc - when this development will benefit all of providence?
I think this is a key question that I too would like to see answered. We can speculate however...
Since PIE have an outpost nearby and already allow neutrals in the space and to dock, it seems likely that they plan to put up another outpost of their own in the same area, and develop the area themselves. The fact that ISS is making a politicaly risky move to keep the POSes there rather than moving suggest that these are in fact not random systems but prime outpost locations.
What is disturbing about this is that one of the main elements of the ISS outpost security plan relies on neighboring Alliances not being interested in expending effort to conquer trade hubs. From what I am reading here it seems that the goal of the CVA is similar to that of ISS - fostering trade, and collecting docking fees.
Also they seem to have some pretty fanatic roleplay notions.
If I were a stockholder I would ask ISS management how they plan to garuntee the security of an outpost that would lie within what CVA claimes are its borders. Would the MC need to be kept under hire indefinatly, and if so, would the cost be absorbed by ISS Providence and impact our returns.
With PIE having deep enough pockets to build an outpost of their own, what plans are in place to prevent them turning around and hiring MC to retake the Providence outposts before the 12-24 months projected for us to recoup our initial investement.
Assuming that the outpost does not fall, what if any will be the impact on our returns if the area becomes an active warzone?
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.04.21 17:25:00 -
[471]
Originally by: Chain Gang
Quote: Quite sure. Because the point still stands that it was not CVA who dishonored the agreement.
But your not denying that he never said it (wise move) ... because you would look rather silly.
Stop trolling ...
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Mr Mister
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Posted - 2006.04.21 17:39:00 -
[472]
Originally by: Mr Trouble
so I repeat my question a third time:
WHY are CVA so against the ISS developing an area of space they rarely if ever are seen in, have no assets etc - when this development will benefit all of providence?
For someone who is so insistent on getting a "correct and proper" response, why do you keep asking such an incorrect question? Change never benefits ALL involved. How can you expect an acurate response to such a general question?
It may benefit all you care about.
It may even benefit the vast majority.
It won't benefit "ALL"
But mainly, given you patently disagree with any answer anyones given you so far.
Why should anyone bother answering this one?
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Chain Gang
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:08:00 -
[473]
Quote: Stop trolling ...
CVA stop hiding .....
Your own leader has been recorded saying he hates the ISS and this "political problem" is just a smoke screen.
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Ridek Cremmen
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:16:00 -
[474]
Originally by: Chain Gang
Quote: Stop trolling ...
CVA stop hiding .....
Your own leader has been recorded saying he hates the ISS and this "political problem" is just a smoke screen.
Okay please provide proof of this statement because I have not seen these words posted..
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:16:00 -
[475]
Originally by: Chain Gang
Quote: Stop trolling ...
CVA stop hiding .....
Maybe when you stop hiding behind a fake identity, Mr. ISS. Are you guys all so ashamed of your real organizations?
Now recruiting!
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Inkie
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:17:00 -
[476]
Posting chatlogs is not allowed.
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Miss Lear
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:20:00 -
[477]
I feel so much anger and frustration from this chat.
All i can say is that if this does turn out to be a lasting war, it is going to get bloody, and alot of people are going to get involved.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:28:00 -
[478]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 21/04/2006 18:30:58
Originally by: Inkie Posting chatlogs is not allowed.
Link to that Concord rule, muchthanks?
Very few things in New Eden are truly private, communications with Concord being one of them.
And Cell, yea - claiming space is bad enough. Claiming space where you don't even have a prescence...heh.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Ztang Canary
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:41:00 -
[479]
Finally...CVA leadership has silenced its flock! I was wondering how long it would take before the hammer came down on playing up to these faceless jokers that keep inflaming this issue. Pathetic cowards they are too...hiding behind alts. Their origin is rather plain to see tho. Quite similar to how children respond, in fact; When a child is admittedly at fault, or caught lying, they will quite often find devious methods of punishing those that put them right. Or...put their hands up before their eyes and exclaim: "now..I cant see you, so you cant see me!" ....
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Atlas Oracle
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Posted - 2006.04.21 18:47:00 -
[480]
as an oustider and a bit of a n00b, i just want to add to this thread that i'm really dissappointed to see ISS and CVA in conflict. these two organizations have my highest respect for the very admirable, altruistic, and actionable goal of civilizing some 0.0 space for commerce and development by the citizens of EVE. their treatment of neutrals, and the standards and precedent of citizenship represented, garnered my sincere respect.
i feel some of my own innocence lost in reading about the genesis of this conflict, two organizations i deeply respect for their principled conduct and goals, in conflict with each other. in particular, the meddling alts are very dissappointing to see. and i was surprised to see MC jump in to stir things so quickly.
god speed to all, and maybe ISS and CVA will recognize their goals are mutual and a conflict like this pollutes the greatness of their shared purpose.
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