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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Zooish
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:08:00 -
[91]
 Quote:
ISS will continue to honor the agreement to stay out of the area 'heading east out to f-yh5b and 3kb-10'.
If CVA properly claim the area on the Territorial map or claim sovereignty, ISS will cease placing POS in other systems in the Q-6LGI constellation.
Seems like common sense ... CVA wanted a fight and decided to whine to the forums ....
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Jacob Majestic
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:08:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Reash
Whatever it takes to have you remove your claim on our space.
1. CVA operates on a free-space policy with regards to neutrals. Confirm/Deny
2. ISS actively sought to discover the boundaries of CVA's claims before placing any POSses so as to not step on anyone's toes. Confirm/Deny
3. ISS has agreeably complied in all other cases where ISS POSses were viewed as infringing CVA space. Confirm/Deny
4. The proper place to resolve diplomatic incidents of this nature is through EVE-mail rather than on Galnet. Confirm/Deny
.
.
.
5. CVA is manufacturing a diplomatic incident so they can shoot at ISS haulers. Confirm/Deny
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CHAOS100
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:08:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Christa Larne
/me breaks open a bottle and sits back to watch the destruction of CVA.
Wasn't that supposed to happen back in October?
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Reash
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:11:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Count TaSessine
the only information ISS received from Aralis on the CVA planned future expansion was the area 'heading east out to f-yh5b and 3kb-10.'
Porbably that one
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:15:00 -
[95]
Aralis, a note on semantics for the future:
The word "to" does not mean "to and including" and in general speach the latter interpretation is often left for the communicating parts. In more formal circumstances, these kinds of missinterpretations where the informing party is imprecise enough to leave "including" unspoken, there will inevitably be conflicts of meaning where the recieving party interpret the words spoken from his own point of view.
In this case the ISS interpreted "to" as stating the closest system allowed.
Regardless, keep this in mind until next time.
Latest EVE musing (MC-boards) |
Jacob Majestic
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:18:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Jacob Majestic on 19/04/2006 22:19:00
Originally by: Reash
Porbably that one
6. It is more convenient to relocate a couple of stupid control towers than it is to fight a war. Confirm/Deny
7. The fact that CVA wasted no time in ganking ISS pilots (as reported by CVA pilots in this very Galnet channel) proves that if they go to war with ISS that they're just in it for the ganks. Confirm/Deny
8. This whole war thing is a bunch of rubbish that impoverishes both parties and enriches neither. Confirm/Deny
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samba mk2
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:23:00 -
[97]
this thread just goes on and on, very entertaining whatever the outcome 
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The Cosmopolite
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:33:00 -
[98]
Jericho Fraction expresses its support for the ISS program of space development and utilisation. We urge a peaceful solution to this senseless argument over territory that should be considered open to all.
Imperial expansion in the Providence region has long been a blight in our eyes but at least ameliorated by promises of openness and free trade. Bereft of that scanty, evanescent covering, it now seems to be little more than a desire to exert control in the name of an archaic and dying order.
We earnestly hope that wiser heads will prevail and prove that this is not so. With the first shots from these brigands and renegade privateers already resulting in losses to a trade-oriented organisation, we fear that we will not see such a proof.
The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction |
Garreck
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:35:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Jacob Majestic
6. It is more convenient to relocate a couple of stupid control towers than it is to fight a war. Confirm/Deny
Confirm. So why were the stations not moved?
Originally by: Jacob Majestic
7. The fact that CVA wasted no time in ganking ISS pilots (as reported by CVA pilots in this very Galnet channel) proves that if they go to war with ISS that they're just in it for the ganks. Confirm/Deny
Deny. One does not make war with a significantly larger alliance with a contracted defensive force the likes of Mercenary Coalition for "ganks."
Originally by: Jacob Majestic
8. This whole war thing is a bunch of rubbish that impoverishes both parties and enriches neither. Confirm/Deny
That remains to be seen.
I think a lot of folks need to go back and read from the beginning. There are a lot of redundant questions and incorrect assumptions taking place here. I'm willing to accept that there may have been a misunderstanding as to where CVA territory ends. What is not acceptable is that when the misunderstanding is pointed out, nothing is done about it.
The issue was approached privately; we were ignored.
The issue was made public; we were rebuffed.
Now the time has come for decisive action. I suppose any speculation as to whether or not we're up to the task will be answered in the coming weeks.
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Chain Gang
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:42:00 -
[100]
Quote:
ISS will continue to honor the agreement to stay out of the area 'heading east out to f-yh5b and 3kb-10'
This was your agreement ............ you changed the rules ..... live with it.
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Jacob Majestic
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Posted - 2006.04.19 22:53:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: Jacob Majestic
6. It is more convenient to relocate a couple of stupid control towers than it is to fight a war. Confirm/Deny
Confirm. So why were the stations not moved?
This takes one and only one EVEmail to sort out. The Curse Coalition, which has all but sworn themselves to be our eternal enemy, requested that we respect their territorial claim to Curse. We have complied and have made it know to the entire alliance that civilian ISS traffic is not to pass through Curse. If we deal in such a way with an enemy, why do you think we would not extend similar courtesy to a friend?
Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: Jacob Majestic
7. The fact that CVA wasted no time in ganking ISS pilots (as reported by CVA pilots in this very Galnet channel) proves that if they go to war with ISS that they're just in it for the ganks. Confirm/Deny
Deny. One does not make war with a significantly larger alliance with a contracted defensive force the likes of Mercenary Coalition for "ganks."
So what's it over? One stinking control tower in a nonsense system in Providence, plus one simple misunderstanding? I ensure you that I am nowhere near as dumb as I look.
Originally by: Garreck
The issue was approached privately; we were ignored.
The issue was made public; we were rebuffed.
So sue me if I'm cold to CVA's somewhat undiplomatic post on Galnet...
Originally by: Garreck
Now the time has come for decisive action. I suppose any speculation as to whether or not we're up to the task will be answered in the coming weeks.
I've got a better idea. How about rather than shooting at each other, we all get rich and ride off into the sunset?
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Beringe
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Posted - 2006.04.19 23:12:00 -
[102]
I urge the CVA to resolve this issue through diplomacy. All ready, we have an ISSN member stating that they do not want this war, and I believe that the tiniest bit of negotiation is all that is needed for them to move their towers out of this system.
This is tarnishing your reputation, CVA.
I also urge the ISS to move the towers out. You do not have to wait for the CVA to contact you, and you can unilaterally end this war by moving out. Surely, this single system (as I understand it) isn't worth fighthing over?
You have much trust and respect to gain by this, ISS.
-------------------------------------------
"Never underestimate the power of language."
--Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles-- |
Reash
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Posted - 2006.04.19 23:15:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Beringe
I urge the CVA to resolve this issue through diplomacy. All ready, we have an ISSN member stating that they do not want this war, and I believe that the tiniest bit of negotiation is all that is needed for them to move their towers out of this system.
This is tarnishing your reputation, CVA.
I also urge the ISS to move the towers out. You do not have to wait for the CVA to contact you, and you can unilaterally end this war by moving out. Surely, this single system (as I understand it) isn't worth fighthing over?
You have much trust and respect to gain by this, ISS.
This is the last time i will post in this thread as i'm getting tired of seeing things repeated, ISS have been asked to remove the POS, they refused, they refused in this thread, if they will not respond to diplomatic negotiations then they shall have to deal with the diplomatic lasers.
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Azeusus
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Posted - 2006.04.19 23:15:00 -
[104]
oh this is turning out to be a very interesting read, all 4 pages read and now the drama is about to get interesting 
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Butter Dog
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Posted - 2006.04.19 23:19:00 -
[105]
For the record, I *do* think its a shame that the end result is a standings change between ISS and CVA.
Partly this is for personal reasons, as I have flown with CVA pilots before and have no wish to fight them myself, and partly because on a political level it makes no sense.
The PvPers in ISSN are already running exploratory gangs in CVA space (I'm not in them for now, I want to see how this plays out first), so for the ISSN it just means more targets and they don't really mind either way (indeed I'm sure they are secretly delighted since pirate pickings in the HED pipe have been slim recently).
But for the ISS and the CVA, this reflects poorly on both of us I believe. It simply did not need to happen.
That said, if is conflict you wish for, we in the ISSN have a responsibility to our alliance to respond with equal or greater force, no matter my personal feelings for the CVA.
Though I will not deny I feel it is a waste of resources which could be better spend protecting neutral travellers in 0.0 space against pirates.
------------------
The ISS Navy is recruiting.
See this thread for further details.
www.eve-iss.com |
Agent Kenshin
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Posted - 2006.04.19 23:21:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Agent Kenshin on 19/04/2006 23:23:37
You also might want to look at the fact that BDCI has gathered quite a few of your old corp and alliance mates. High ranking ones at that who have led your fleets and even possibly trained you. If war does come and we are forced to open fire. They know you they know how you operate. They know where you operate. As much as they dont want to shoot you as friends and everything our clients wishes come first. Blood will be spilt on both sides. But think about the advantage it gives your enemies. Dont get me wrong more red is good. But it can be easily avoidable here.
And its amazing how you will be so quick to start a war over a misunderstanding of words.
And of course i am slow to see the comms so it looks like their will be more red to shoot.
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
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Goodtime Girl
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Posted - 2006.04.19 23:25:00 -
[107]
I hear Mongo has already fitted the "Duck Shootin Guns"
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Emilia Hussain
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Posted - 2006.04.19 23:54:00 -
[108]
Quote:
You also might want to look at the fact that BDCI has gathered quite a few of your old corp and alliance mates. High ranking ones at that who have led your fleets and even possibly trained you
Wonder where their first loyalty lies. To the Empire and those who work to support it ...or "the other one" ? 
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Derran
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Posted - 2006.04.19 23:57:00 -
[109]
Amarrians have always been stubborn and single minded so their agressive behavior is no surprise to me. CVA's language in their statement looks pretty unclear so I don't consider ISS to be at fault at all. CVA should have clearly and specifically stated it and not left it open to interpretation.
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Ka'lorn Font'a
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Posted - 2006.04.20 00:00:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Emilia Hussain
Quote:
You also might want to look at the fact that BDCI has gathered quite a few of your old corp and alliance mates. High ranking ones at that who have led your fleets and even possibly trained you
Wonder where their first loyalty lies. To the Empire and those who work to support it ...or "the other one" ?
I assure you, if it comes to the stage whereby I have the locals of Providence, and indeed the CVA - turning their guns on me, as much as I don't *want* to fight the CVA (and relatedly so, my old alliance and friends), I will. And with that, I believe, with all my heart, and hope - that the friends I have within the CVA, and within Providence (which I originally helped 'secure' for many months), would understand that.
The same goes for Golan, for Caya, and for Vladic - we hoped this day would not arise, now it seems there is no way to avert it.
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Sushi Tanaka
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Posted - 2006.04.20 00:25:00 -
[111]
So, if I follow:
ISS: What are your expansion plans?
CVA: Heading east out to f-yh5b and 3kb-10.
ISS: Cool. (Hey guys, 3KB-10 is fair game!)
... a few months later:
CVA: Um, why did you put up a POS in 3KB?
ISS: You didn't want it, so we took it!
CVA: That's on our border and we might keep going that way.
ISS: "to" doesn't mean "including" - you lose!
CVA: Could you remove it please?
ISS: NO! We need more systems, our industrial corps love the fuel discount too much!
CVA: Ok, this is war.
ISS: We don't want to fight you, but we have to defend our space! *whistles*
MC: Yes mas'a?
ISS: Sick 'em, boy!
Sound about right to you all? |
Angry Dan
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Posted - 2006.04.20 00:25:00 -
[112]
The Huzzah Federation takes a keen intrest in this matter. ISS have decided that they wish to deploy a starbase near our border. Huzzah Federation favours any developement that would bring properity to Providence.
However. We do not like seeing our allies fight. Ideally, we would prefer that this issue was resolved peacefully. If mediation is required, I am willing to off my services as a neutral mediator.
Huzzah Federation will stay neutral in this matter. However, should the fighting spill over our borders, or should our lawful trade be harrassed, we will reconsider our neutral position.
++++++++++++++++++++
Founder member of the Huzzah Federation.
Remember, the grass is greener on our side of the fence
Widowmakers director
Fear my kneepads of allure!
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Chain Gang
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Posted - 2006.04.20 00:34:00 -
[113]
Quote:
So, if I follow:
ISS: What are your expansion plans?
CVA: Heading east out to f-yh5b and 3kb-10.
ISS: Cool. (Hey guys, 3KB-10 is fair game!)
... a few months later:
CVA: Um, why did you put up a POS in 3KB?
ISS: You didn't want it, so we took it!
CVA: That's on our border and we might keep going that way.
ISS: "to" doesn't mean "including" - you lose!
CVA: Could you remove it please?
ISS: NO! We need more systems, our industrial corps love the fuel discount too much!
CVA: Ok, this is war.
ISS: We don't want to fight you, but we have to defend our space! *whistles*
MC: Yes mas'a?
ISS: Sick 'em, boy!
Sound about right to you all?
Should read ......
So, if I follow:
ISS: What are your expansion plans?
CVA: Heading east out to f-yh5b and 3kb-10. Beyond that we have no interest.
ISS: Cool. 3KB-10 is fair game!)
... a few months later: and several billion in isk
CVA: Um, why did you put up a POS in 3KB?
ISS: You didn't want it, and 3 months ago you agreed to our plan
CVA: Well we have changed our minds and want all of the map.
ISS: Sorry but you agreed the plan
CVA: I want it all
ISS: Sorry but its unclaimed space.
CVA: Ok, this is war, mummy get my teddy bear and rattle
ISS: We don't want to fight you, but we have to defend ourselves
Thats about right
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Clavius XIV
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Posted - 2006.04.20 00:34:00 -
[114]
I hope lord Aralis will forgive me as I attempt to enlighten this Deteis.
Originally by: Jacob Majestic
1. CVA operates on a free-space policy with regards to neutrals. Confirm/Deny
Confirmed, we do not fire upon neutrals. We allow all who are law abiding to mine/npc in our space. However to erect a starbase requires permission, and each starbase charter is granted on a case-by-case basis. Under no circumstances are they permitted to actualy claim sovereginty.
Quote:
2. ISS actively sought to discover the boundaries of CVA's claims before placing any POSses so as to not step on anyone's toes. Confirm/Deny
Confirmed
Quote:
3. ISS has agreeably complied in all other cases where ISS POSses were viewed as infringing CVA space. Confirm/Deny
I can't speak for all cases, but they have complied in at least one case I know of.
Quote:
4. The proper place to resolve diplomatic incidents of this nature is through EVE-mail rather than on Galnet. Confirm/Deny
Confirm, which is why our Aralis initiated contect via eve-mail before turning to galnet as a last resort to get ISS attention and avoid military conflict. After the galnet communique there was then what appeared to be a hopeful cordial conversation between the parties, where I believe the ISS diplomat had to consult with others then get back to Aralis. The ISS response was not personaly delivered through other channels, but instead was posted to Galnet by the ISS CEO. I suggest you ask your own leadership why it was handled this way.
Quote:
5. CVA is manufacturing a diplomatic incident so they can shoot at ISS haulers. Confirm/Deny
Emphatically denied. CVA has in fact has provided escort and assisted ISS pilots in CVA space on numerous occasions against pirates and other miscreants. There is no glory or challenge in shooting at haulers.
Quote:
So what's it over? One stinking control tower in a nonsense system in Providence, plus one simple misunderstanding? I ensure you that I am nowhere near as dumb as I look.
I appreciate in an organization as large as yours you may not be privvy to all the operational details. This is a little more than a small tower as in the prior incidenct. We are talking about a sovgrinty claim in one system and 4 large towers with no industry of note and scores of weapon emplacements. As we tried to contact an ISS representative and were being ignored, more weapon batteries were being onlined.
I'm just a soldier, but from where I sit it looks to me that ISS has identified a juicy area of CVA space and is making a play to contest it, banking on their numbers, resources, and military connections to push us aside and make us go away.
We are not some nomadic group of ruffians here for kicks. We are on a Holy mission. We have fought and bled for the dream of a lawful, secure, and prosperous lower Domain/Providence long before ISS was a twinkle in anyone's eye. We will continue to do so long after ISS fades into the sands of time.
While I do not presume to speak for Aralis, I am fairly confident that there could still be a resolution if there was any indication from ISS leadership of good faith-intention to remove their claims.
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Zaphod Jones
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Posted - 2006.04.20 00:37:00 -
[115]
Quting from a post found in Crime and Punishment, personally I would prefer to have IIS back in EC-P8R as the pirate situation theer is relly getting outo f hand, and we could do with some more hands-on neutrailty from ISS
Originally by: Lord Wibblywobbly
While ISS civilian traffic is not permitted through Doril, ISS exist in a state of 0.0 war with CC, at their choosing rather than ours, so military incursions are permitted whilst they are actively hostile toward us.
Please feel free to run riot across the Curse region - NPCers, Miners, whatever, just kill them all
Celtic Anarchy are recruiting http://kos.griefwatch.net |
Zooish
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Posted - 2006.04.20 00:37:00 -
[116]
Sorry CVA ... you agreed and stated you claim area ... dont start moaning because you now decide you want more ...
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Princess Morenta
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Posted - 2006.04.20 00:48:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Sushi Tanaka
So, if I follow:
ISS: What are your expansion plans?
CVA: Heading east out to f-yh5b and 3kb-10.
ISS: Cool. (Hey guys, 3KB-10 is fair game!)
... a few months later:
CVA: Um, why did you put up a POS in 3KB?
ISS: You didn't want it, so we took it!
CVA: That's on our border and we might keep going that way.
ISS: "to" doesn't mean "including" - you lose!
CVA: Could you remove it please?
ISS: NO! We need more systems, our industrial corps love the fuel discount too much!
CVA: Ok, this is war.
ISS: We don't want to fight you, but we have to defend our space! *whistles*
MC: Yes mas'a?
ISS: Sick 'em, boy!
Sound about right to you all?
Sounds about right to me.. You will die as you come..
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Angry Dan
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Posted - 2006.04.20 00:59:00 -
[118]
On a personal note, so don't confuse this one with offical Huzzah policy (my last missive donotes that).
Bad move ISS. A threat to CVA's security is a threat to Huzzah's security. Not something we like to see.
We might be neutral, but a threat to our security will be watched INTENTLY. Take some friendly advice here. Get back to that table, and do it fast.
++++++++++++++++++++
Founder member of the Huzzah Federation.
Remember, the grass is greener on our side of the fence
Widowmakers director
Fear my kneepads of allure!
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Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.20 01:03:00 -
[119]
Quote:
"Regrettably, this incident is a direct result of misunderstanding due to communication from Aralis. Despite a request for specific systems and constellations, the only information ISS received from Aralis on the CVA planned future expansion was the area 'heading east out to f-yh5b and 3kb-10.'
By placing POS in 3KB-10//Q-6LGI we have honoured Aralis and CVA's initial request and chosen POS Placements and access routes that do not include the area 'heading east out of f-yh5b and 3kb-10'.
A question for the Count. You state first you understood the CVA was expanding out TO 3kb-10. Yet afterwards you state you placed your POS's in 3kb-10 as an OUT OF.
If the CVA indicated they were expanding out TO 3kb-10 doesn't the word TO imply within that system as well?
I don't know about you but the word TO implies just that.
You're splitting hairs claiming this is a matter of semantics. CVA told ISS they were expanding out TO 3kb-10 and ISS went ahead and dropped POS's there anyway.
It seems pretty clear this was an attempt to instigate a war. The CVA has peacefully kept the spacelanes in Providence clear for over a year. Now the ISS comes in (after calling it a renegade land in your IPO) and takes advantage of the CVA's hard work by plopping POS's and an Outpost in the region.
If ISS truly intended to tame a renegade region of space would they not have chosen an area that was NOT already under the protection of an honorable alliance, that was already open to all, that was already the home of an outpost and POS's and already routinely patrolled?
Of course they would've.
But instead ISS picked the system the CVA said they were expanding out TO and dropped four POS's there.
Seems pretty clear what happend to me.
Archbishop
These comments are my own and in no way represent those of my corporation or alliance
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Chain Gang
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Posted - 2006.04.20 01:09:00 -
[120]
^^ LMAO @ HIM
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