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Grim Savage
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Posted - 2006.04.21 20:34:00 -
[481]
 Originally by: Atlas Oracle
as an oustider and a bit of a n00b, i just want to add to this thread that i'm really dissappointed to see ISS and CVA in conflict. these two organizations have my highest respect for the very admirable, altruistic, and actionable goal of civilizing some 0.0 space for commerce and development by the citizens of EVE. their treatment of neutrals, and the standards and precedent of citizenship represented, garnered my sincere respect.
i feel some of my own innocence lost in reading about the genesis of this conflict, two organizations i deeply respect for their principled conduct and goals, in conflict with each other. in particular, the meddling alts are very dissappointing to see. and i was surprised to see MC jump in to stir things so quickly.
god speed to all, and maybe ISS and CVA will recognize their goals are mutual and a conflict like this pollutes the greatness of their shared purpose.
You must be a traitor to your race when you speak so highly of the Amarr alliance.
No wonder the Minmatars never manage to build anything and spend all theire isk on exotic dancers and drugs.
As a Caldari Buissnies card-holder, I have to say that I like the basic original idea of the ISS. However, ISS have lost track of theire goals, and take active parts in big-alliance politics.
CVA's goal to claim the Providence region for the Amarr priests, might make sense for them. ISS just want to plant a terrorist trainingcamp there, where the likes of UK, MC and theire friends can plan attacks on the god-loveing and peacefull amarr people.
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Atlas Oracle
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Posted - 2006.04.21 20:41:00 -
[482]
Originally by: Grim Savage
You must be a traitor to your race when you speak so highly of the Amarr alliance.
No wonder the Minmatars never manage to build anything and spend all theire isk on exotic dancers and drugs.
As a Caldari Buissnies card-holder, I have to say that I like the basic original idea of the ISS. However, ISS have lost track of theire goals, and take active parts in big-alliance politics.
CVA's goal to claim the Providence region for the Amarr priests, might make sense for them. ISS just want to plant a terrorist trainingcamp there, where the likes of UK, MC and theire friends can plan attacks on the god-loveing and peacefull amarr people.
hey man, whatever gets you through the day.
i despise Amarr for what they think they do to my brother and sister, but i don't let it blind my eyes with blood and rage. i do not respect CVA for being Amarr, i respect them for undertaking the means to civilize 0.0 space, even to the point my racial brothers and sisters can fly and do business in it.
your views about ISS are your own, and irrelevant to me to be clear.
rage and bile are poison to the resonable man. all appears yellow the jaundiced eye, friend.
peace be with you.
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Royaldo
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Posted - 2006.04.21 21:30:00 -
[483]
Originally by: Mr Trouble
Originally by: Royaldo
heres something for you yo think about:
1. look at the alliance map here
Funny that, the disputed system is significantly outside CVA's current claimed space.
Exactly as I said it was.
Tell me... are you retarded? Or just born without balls? Science and Trade Institue... how about joining a pod pilot corp?
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Kular
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Posted - 2006.04.21 22:30:00 -
[484]
Originally by: OVERCOPES 1
Originally by: Zooish
Better options ...
1) The CVA remove the War Dec and everybody talks like adults 
2) The CVA / ISS fight ....
Im all for 2 personally
OC what ou doing in that corp! makes ya look soft and.. friendly..
As for the two ISS alts that have been trolling this thread, shame on you for adding nothing and inflaming the situation! ISS leadership needs to clamp down on its dogs.
As to your question of WHY- you miss the entire point.
CVA are not against ISS building in provi, no one really is, I even own shares in ISS providence! The real problem here is ISS is breaking its charter, breaking its tradition of neutrality and respect for the neighbors it wants to develope with. CVA has done the right thing in standing up to ISS over this, you can never appease someone even once! they will always want more!
What I want to know is why ISS is endangering the Enitre ISS providence, by refusing to remove a few POS! What is so hard about correcting your mistake... remove from the said system, and get back to building the Outposts!
If you loose ISS Providence over 1 damned system, I and the other shareholders will NOT be pleased!
www.AegisMilitia.com
For God, Empire, and Sarum! |
Zooish
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Posted - 2006.04.21 23:07:00 -
[485]
Quote:
As to your question of WHY- you miss the entire point.
CVA are not against ISS building in provi, no one really is, I even own shares in ISS providence! The real problem here is ISS is breaking its charter, breaking its tradition of neutrality and respect for the neighbors it wants to develope with. CVA has done the right thing in standing up to ISS over this, you can never appease someone even once! they will always want more!
Complete rubbish and "wordsmith" trying to hide the truth ....
Aralis has stated in many logged conversations that he doesn't want ISS "anywhere" in Providence and he would find any reason to oppose it and declare war ..
Nothing else matter .... all the fancy speeches, all the shouting up the Amarr.
Stop hiding .... and playing political games ..... remove the I've got a big gun attitude, because you haven't, remove the War Dec and I'm sure it will be sorted.
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Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.22 00:39:00 -
[486]
Quote:
"So you accept the other points then, namely:
1) CVA did not claim the space, they only planned to at some point in the future
2) They delcared war on ISS over some POS in space they did not currently claim
3) Declaring war on the ISS and being threatening and aggressive from the outset doesnt exactly help their cause
4) Aralis has a personal dislike for the ISS as outlined in his leaked conversation with an MC official, he doesnt want them in Providence AT ALL
5) ISS offered to move the POS 1 system further out from CVA space - they rejected this outright"
For those like Mr. Trouble who are obviously lacking the ability to understand a simple situation I'll spell it out for you clearly.
#1. It makes no difference that CVA didn't have soverignty there and only planned to move there. Why? Because there was an AGREEMENT made between the CVA and ISS as to the future boundries. The dispute is over ISS breaking the agreement not the system itself.
Clear?
#2. They declared war after ISS broke the agreement and said NO they wouldn't move the stations. As the agreement was recognized by ISS the day before (when they did move some stations) its clear ISS recognized and ACCEPTED the agreement. Suddenly they break it. That is why the CVA declared war.
Clear?
#3. The "threat" and "agression" was on the part of ISS. THEY are the ones who refused to honor the agreement THEY MADE in February. CVA gave them 24 hours to move the POSs and only declared war after ISS REFUSED to move them from a system THEY AGREED was CVA space back in February. As for "threat" I suggest you consider the MC being waved around as "threat" long before CVA declared war.
Clear?
#4. Personal conversations aside who cares. I don't care for several corporations and don't like their activities. From strip mining to macro mining there are alot of people I'll speak out against. I don't care for many corporations or their business tactics. Thats besides the point. What Aralis feels really doesn't matter as this isn't about that at all. This is about one thing and one thing only. ISS has BROKEN AN AGREEMENT they made with the CVA in good faith. They've even ADMITTED IT WAS A MISTAKE yet they still refuse to correct it and remove the POS stations.
Clear?
I personally could care less what a trolling alt has to say anyway. But just in case someone reads your trash and starts to believe it I thought I'd set the record straight.
Clear?
By the way oh uninteligent flaming one you should know the ISS actually AGREED to recognize the future CVA "plans". How is this proven? Well by the fact the ISS moved the other POSs when Aralis complained.
So clearly the ISS did in fact intend to honor the claim. Instead they made a mistake. Rather then correct it they postured and thus now risk the investment of many shareholders (myself included).
Clear?
Oh and as for the other flaming trolling alt who is to cowardly to post with a recognized personage (Chain Gang thats you). Just a quick word of advice. Flamming and trolling get you no where and eventually you're recognized as such. Try having a little courage and honor and posting as yourself rather then hiding behind a disguise. I personally suspect both you and Mr. Trouble aren't even part of the ISS or CVA. You're just flaming alts who like to stir things up.
Purely JUVENILE in other words.
Archbishop 
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Parallax Error
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Posted - 2006.04.22 00:42:00 -
[487]
Edited by: Parallax Error on 22/04/2006 00:42:02
Originally by: Zooish
Stop hiding .... and playing political games ..... remove the I've got a big gun attitude, because you haven't, remove the War Dec and I'm sure it will be sorted.
Stop hiding behind an alternative character in an IC forum and post with your main, grow a pair and stop hiding behind aninimity! Remove the "I've got an opinion attitude" because until you can express those opinions as someone involved in this or at the very least, as someone who is not hiding behind a childish forum flame alt.......
Your opinion is worth as much as a diseased slave!
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Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.22 00:46:00 -
[488]
As for the other corpless, mindless, courageless pilots like Zooish (another of the above mentioned "mystery" posters) you said this.
Quote:
"Aralis has stated in many logged conversations that he doesn't want ISS "anywhere" in Providence and he would find any reason to oppose it and declare war .."
Actually Aralis didn't say that. He said he preferred they not be in Providence. Perhaps you could point out where he said he'd "find any reason to declare war".
Or are you just a liar who adds things that weren't said?
I'm waiting?
Again, have some courage you coward. Hiding behind a mask earns you no credibility. Your a professional flamer and nothing more.
Nothing is in dispute here.
CVA said they were going TO that system. The websters dictionary is pretty clear about the definition of the word TO (that being a destination or final location).
Its also clear the ISS did in fact recognize the claim to future expansion by the fact they actually did move POSs the day before. If they didn't recognize the planned expansion why would they do this?
I'm waiting?????
Oh and one more thing. The war declaration was only after ISS refused (officially) to move the POS from CVA space. In other words it was the only option available on the table after ISS refused to live up to the agreement they recognzied in February.
Its all really simple actually. ISS has violated their charter in which they state they'll honor the boundries of the 0.0 "host" alliances. Instead they first claim the word "TO" is confusing, then claim "well CVA isnt that big anyway".
In other words they attempted to justify breaking an agreement. Thats what its all about.
CVA declaring war has nothing to do with this.
ISS broke the agreement. Plain and simple. Even the ISSN representative agreed it was a mistake.
So why don't you just fly away back to the noob system you came from and play with your Imparior or whatever it is you fly. Leave the serious stuff to the people who are courageous enough to actually post WHO THEY ARE not some pathetic little alt like yourselves.
Honestly. So juvenile and immature. Its amazing.
As for ISS. I hope you recognize you made a mistake and move the POS. Its that simple. When your own people are saying "it was a mistake" it should be obvious. Then again your own people are brave enough to post as who they are. Not as pathetic newbies we see here barely out of school.
Then again I've always considered ISS to be honorable and as a shareholder I'm also concerend what a four empire wide war against ISS assets and corporations (both member and non-member) over the next one to two years will have. What will happen to my dividends?
Do the right thing. Move the POS. Hell maybe make it a "buffer" zone between CVA and ISS and have both agree not to build there. But you did make the agreement. CVA did say they were going "TO" there. Its clear and cant be denied.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Yakti
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Posted - 2006.04.22 01:00:00 -
[489]
yarr
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Lake
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Posted - 2006.04.22 03:46:00 -
[490]
Edited by: Lake on 22/04/2006 03:52:23
I hope you now better understand why ISS seemed so oddly stubborn about moving 'just a few moon bases'. ISS is now committed to this project both by operational circumstances and by the Providence Project's shareholders. CVA has not, as far as I'm aware, presented any viable option to ISS. I imagine CVA opinion is now staunchly behind war (they have been aware of these details throughout) no matter is presented.
I have always appreciated CVA's efforts in developing Providence. In fact up until this conflict Praxis Empire operations took place in CVA's back yard. We have done our best to contribute to keeping this area safe and prosperous alongside CVA corps and other local corporations. It pains me to see these same corporations which I am accustomed to identifying as 'friendly' when seen in the space lanes taking up arms again us. I understand the allegiance you feel to CVA for what they've done for Providence. In this, however, they are acting against the interests of Providence, trying to stagnate development in an attempt to keep it all for themselves. Being intolerant of what was genuinely an honest misunderstanding, because it suits their motives.
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Lake
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Posted - 2006.04.22 03:46:00 -
[491]
Edited by: Lake on 22/04/2006 03:47:36
I do not represent ISS in this post. I represent myself and The Praxis Initiative.
As I noted previously, I generally do not involve myself in the main thread of ISS Politics. However I have assembled a short summary of events that I have been using to explain the situation to my own corp members (who have not read every post in this thread, as I have, or have access to as much internal ISS Information such as complete chat logs and evemails, as I do). I am not trying to prove the points listed. I believe Count and Serenity are assembling the relevant information to back up their position. I have attempted to be only as precise as my understanding of the situation permits. I do not claim it is completely without error, rather I will continue editing this GalNet post adding more details or making corrections as necessary.
It is not an argument for one course of action or another (that comes in the following post). This is simply meant to explain ISS's actions to those who (like me) couldn't figure out why ISS had lost it ('it' being either their Neutrality or their Minds).
- ISS wants to set up an outpost in Providence.
- ISS prudently wishes to accommodate nearby Alliances and contacts CVA (among others) requesting information with regard to CVA's future expansion.
- Due to the unusually bizarre map layout of the area at issue and the very terse description given by CVA, ISS misinterprets the request of CVA with regard to CVA expansion plans.
- ISS never made any agreement to stay out of the space at issue because they never understood that they were even requested to do so.
- After ISS devotes many billions of ISK, moving millions of cubic meters of material (note that freighters can only be loaded at stations, making it significantly easier to move to the site than away), and deploying several large POS, CVA notice the misinterpretation when the sovereignty claim appears on the map.
- At this point removing the operation is not reasonably feasible. CVA, having experience deploying a single outpost, have an idea of how difficult it would be to move two outpost construction plans any significant distance.
- Due to Count's illness responses from ISS to deal with the situation were delayed, presumably inflaming the situation.
- CVA were never happy with ISS further developing the Providence region as CVA wishes to maintain exclusivity with regard to Providence Trade.
- CVA believes that ISS deliberately deployed in a system that CVA had specifically claimed, that this was not simply a misunderstanding.
- CVA believes the space in question is now CVA Sovereign space. It is unclear when they believe this sovereignty was established.
- ISS believes the space in question is not CVA Sovereign space, citing that the only thing resembling a 'claim' made on said space was a response to a request by ISS enquiring about CVA future expansion plans.
- ISS believes that without established sovereignty CVA is not a 'Host' alliance and therefore this situation is not covered in the ISS Charter.
- CVA are committed to war in any circumstance where the outposts are to be deployed where they sit or any nearby systems to which the project could feasibly be moved.
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Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.22 04:16:00 -
[492]
You're missing a key point Lake. You state the ISS never had intended to stay out of the CVA systems. This is proven false. How? Because just prior to this ISS did in fact move some POS stations they had placed inside this zone. That proves they recognized this area as part of their agreement and understood they werent supposed to be there.
The other issue is the fact CVA indicated they'd go out TO 3kb-10. Now according to websters dictionary (and everything else) the word "TO" implies a destination, a final location where you end up, its pretty "clear".
I myself can accept that the ISS made an honest mistake. But the correct thing to do, to respect the agreement they made in good faith, would've been to move the 4 POS stations. This was long before "millions of tons" of materials (as you call it) was set for shipping and setup. In other words there was plenty of opportunity. The delay was caused by the refusal of ISS to abide by the agreement they made in February and affirmed a day earlier when in fact they DID move POS stations.
As for trade sure everyone likes a monopoly. But the CVA came right out and said "we plan to expand to here, keep the rest, have fun". They didn't try to force ISS out nor did they try to interfere with the new outposts. The only issue here is the agreement which ISS broke apparently by mistake then stubbornly refused to correct.
So no one is trying to stagnate development. In fact if ISS left the contested system and moved one jump away they'd be out of the area. They could setup there and there would be no issue.
Understand this. The only issue here is a broken agreement. Anything else is irrelevant in retrospect. If the agreement had been honored in the first place ISS would have no issue with the CVA and could happily setup their POS and Outposts without problem.
They made a choice not to do that.
As for soverignty you forget what I mentioned above. That the ISS did in fact RECOGNIZE this the day before when they moved the POS stations. Why would ISS do this if they didn't recognize it?
That in itself is proof enough.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Beringe
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Posted - 2006.04.22 04:55:00 -
[493]
Can somebody tell me if diplomatic talks are happening at all?
It would seem sheer foolishness for the ISS to try to build an outpost in said system, with the CVA being hostile to them right at its doorstep. In fact, peace with the CVA should be one of the most important factors that needs securing before a new outpost is built.
Actually, I'm pretty amazed that anyone cares about this system, including the CVA. I know, I know...agreements, etc. But is the system really *worth* anything, besides being a convenient location for starbases (tbh, I'm not even sure about that)?
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"Never underestimate the power of language."
--Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles-- |
Verge Genesis
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Posted - 2006.04.22 05:06:00 -
[494]
Edited by: Verge Genesis on 22/04/2006 05:07:20
Archbishop,
You keep mentioning "The ISS" undertaking all sorts of actions and this is simply not how the ISS functions. Those four POSes were moved by their parent corporation in response to CVA; it was their choice, not Count's. The ISS is a federation of independent traders and the actions of one member corp have absolutely nothing to do with the construction of publicly owned outposts.
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Vera Nosfyu
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Posted - 2006.04.22 05:08:00 -
[495]
Archbishop, while I make no claim to liking you to begin with it particularly irks me when you abuse our language. To is NOT necessarily inclusive. For example, have you ever built a bridge? I'm sure you have, one of those nice holy things you people like to do. Anyway. Let's say you're building a bridge across the river Styx after someone finally kills you and sends you to Hell where you belong. In any case, you build your bridge from one side to the other. Your bridge crosses the gap. And then it stops. It has not gone into either side. That is in fact why we have the word "into."
I understand your pressure as a propagandist to demonize your opponents and apotheosize your allies, but please don't stain the language while you do it.
In any case, that is not what I came here to say. Stormriders knows the cruelty of these Amarrian wretches that call themselves CVA and while we do not forsee the ISS or MC needing any help to defeat these pathetic curs we would like you to know that should you need any form of assistance please contact us as it would be our pleasure to perform any action that may aid the downfall of these tyrants.
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"Violence solves all problems, no man, no problem." --Josef Stalin |
Kular
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Posted - 2006.04.22 05:14:00 -
[496]
Originally by: Vera Nosfyu
To is NOT necessarily inclusive. Let's say you're building a bridge across the river Styx after someone finally kills you and sends you to Hell where you belong.
Thank god you cleared that up, it almost sounded like the good Bishop might have gone into hell, lucky for him you explained this so well.
As for SRS getting involved, that would NOT be your best interest.
www.AegisMilitia.com
For God, Empire, and Sarum! |
Lake
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Posted - 2006.04.22 05:37:00 -
[497]
Edited by: Lake on 22/04/2006 05:37:56
The precise misunderstanding about the word 'to' is not really that important. It's simply one detail from Count's post that people have glommed onto. Having read the relevant logs/evemails it's easy for me to see how there was a misunderstanding (regardless of its specifics) especially given the confusing nature of this particular section of map.
The system from which ISS moon bases were previously removed at the behest of CVA was LF-2KP. This system is 3 jumps (two of them constellation jumps) from the 3KB-J0 system which is currently at issue.
The 'supposition' that the CVA request for ISS to withdraw from 3KB-J0 came long before the project became more than just a couple of moon bases is simply not accurate. Also remember that the Sovereignty claim does not necessarily appear on the map the day the moon bases are deployed. They can be in place indefinitely before claiming and in fact require 'up to 5 days' (according to the control panel, and recent patch notes) for sovereignty to be demonstrated. It would be no surprise to me if the moon bases had been there for quite some time in preparation.
As for the supposition that ISS could move one jump away to resolve this whole matter: It is my understanding that ISS has already made this offer and it has been declined by CVA. Unless of course the jump to which you refer is the regional jump into Catch which is of course not in keeping with the Providence Project's requirements.
And as for confirming the location of Outpost plans: I considered this matter carefully and at great length. I have come to the conclusion that anyone who might act against the construction plans is already very well aware of them based on information already present in this thread. Given the lack of secrecy at this stage I thought it more important to be open about motivations than try to continue to pretend 3KB was just a few moon bases with the hope that someone's third cousin may not have figured things out yet.
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Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.22 05:57:00 -
[498]
Quote:
"You keep mentioning "The ISS" undertaking all sorts of actions and this is simply not how the ISS functions. Those four POSes were moved by their parent corporation in response to CVA; it was their choice, not Count's. The ISS is a federation of independent traders and the actions of one member corp have absolutely nothing to do with the construction of publicly owned outposts."
You claim the ISS isn't an alliance at all basically? Then perhaps you'd care to explain the MC presence and their contract with the ISS (which isn't representing these people as you claim)? If that was so wouldnt those four outposts be the property of one corp and if attacked not subject to ISS intervention?
The actions of your alliance and member corps has everything to do with your outposts. You can't just wash your hands of it and say "oh well thats not us" and expect a free pass.
Quote:
"The precise misunderstanding about the word 'to' is not really that important. It's simply one detail from Count's post that people have glommed onto. Having read the relevant logs/evemails it's easy for me to see how there was a misunderstanding (regardless of its specifics) especially given the confusing nature of this particular section of map."
Well its one detail thats kind of a big one wouldn't you say? And if as several ISS people have said it was a mistake whats the prudent course? To remove them. To fix the mistake. Like the other ISS corp did correct?
Quote:
"The 'supposition' that the CVA request for ISS to withdraw from 3KB-J0 came long before the project became more than just a couple of moon bases is simply not accurate. Also remember that the Sovereignty claim does not necessarily appear on the map the day the moon bases are deployed. They can be in place indefinitely before claiming and in fact require 'up to 5 days' (according to the control panel, and recent patch notes) for sovereignty to be demonstrated. It would be no surprise to me if the moon bases had been there for quite some time in preparation."
So youre saying ISS basically snuck in there, knowing that was the boundry, and put those up in the dead of night? Very interesting indeed and more revealing as to motive. Certainly ISS knew of the CVA claim to that system as where they'd expand "TO" (theres that word again).
Quote:
"As for the supposition that ISS could move one jump away to resolve this whole matter: It is my understanding that ISS has already made this offer and it has been declined by CVA. Unless of course the jump to which you refer is the regional jump into Catch which is of course not in keeping with the Providence Project's requirements."
ISS never offered to move one jump. They offered to let the CVA move one jump (to another system they had planned already under the agreement).
Oh theres that "agreement" again. The thing that was broken, even if by mistake, thats now being ignored by everyone.
Quote:
"And as for confirming the location of Outpost plans: I considered this matter carefully and at great length. I have come to the conclusion that anyone who might act against the construction plans is already very well aware of them based on information already present in this thread."
Well according to you the ISS is going ahead with this. Thats unfortunate as the CVA has already indicated their course. I still have hopes peace will rule the day.
Since the ISS has already indicated they're going to do this perhaps another meeting to establish boundries (in stone this time) where the CVA takes say 3-4 other systems in that area to make up for the disputed one?
That might be something both sides could live with? A war lasting years between the forces of Amarr and the ISS would be very costly to all in blood and money. It is something to avoid for all our sakes. After all we fight for God and Empire. In the end thats all there is.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Lake
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Posted - 2006.04.22 06:14:00 -
[499]
Edited by: Lake on 22/04/2006 06:17:53
I did not post to 'prove', only to explain. If you do not agree with the premise behind my explanation then no amount of arguing will bare fruit. I hope that others (than Archbishop) were more receptive to what I had to say.
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Archbishop
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Posted - 2006.04.22 06:26:00 -
[500]
Well as you've apparently read the agreement (or misagreement) as it was relayed in February perhaps you'd be so kind as to cut and paste it here so we can all see what was misunderstood. All I've done is talk to people and I'd be very interested in reading the exact text and what was said (and not said). It would actually clear things up very easily for the ISS thus I see no problem with not posting it entirely. Do you?
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
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Lake
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Posted - 2006.04.22 06:28:00 -
[501]
Edited by: Lake on 22/04/2006 06:30:19
I was not a party to the communication. I will leave disclosure to someone who was. It is my understanding that it will be released in the near future along with a great deal of other documentation.
--
Lake, Founder of The Praxis Initiative |
Reash
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Posted - 2006.04.22 07:10:00 -
[502]
Considering this is apparently an unreverable operation it didnt take ISS all that long to move the POS and any over materials there in the first place.
Secondly i don;t think ISS quite understand what they are doing, CVA is open space to all honest traders we support this space with the help from the locals, in essence this is not just CVA space. Your actions in claiming this system are basically shooting yourself in the foot as your potential customers will be at war with you.
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Verge Genesis
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Posted - 2006.04.22 08:41:00 -
[503]
The system from which ISS moon bases were previously removed at the behest of CVA was LF-2KP. This system is 3 jumps (two of them constellation jumps) from the 3KB-J0 system which is currently at issue.
Wow... somebody should have said this earlier, would have shut up people like Archbishop with their talk about all kinds of duplicitousness.
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Golan Trevize
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Posted - 2006.04.22 10:32:00 -
[504]
Edited by: Golan Trevize on 22/04/2006 10:33:10
Originally by: Beringe
Can somebody tell me if diplomatic talks are happening at all?
It would seem sheer foolishness for the ISS to try to build an outpost in said system, with the CVA being hostile to them right at its doorstep. In fact, peace with the CVA should be one of the most important factors that needs securing before a new outpost is built.
Actually, I'm pretty amazed that anyone cares about this system, including the CVA. I know, I know...agreements, etc. But is the system really *worth* anything, besides being a convenient location for starbases (tbh, I'm not even sure about that)?
Ive tried...
Instead ive been branded hereric...CVA leadership know the lenghtsts ive gone to..these matters of personal honour will be resolved in space at a apropiate time.
otherwise my channles are still open and i am still working for a peacefull solution to this tradegy...
The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
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Samantha Vimes
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Posted - 2006.04.22 10:46:00 -
[505]
Edited by: Samantha Vimes on 22/04/2006 10:47:09
Edited by: Samantha Vimes on 22/04/2006 10:46:40
Yes I am an alt.
ould it be possible for the people on this thread to state which characters that are posting are actually doing so on behalf of both sides. Both ISS and CVA. There are so many alts and flamers posting here to make proper discussion unrealistic at best.
And a few personal notes:
Chain gang:
If you are a member of ISS, shut the frig*replace with appropriate word* up, you are not helping.
If you are not a member of ISS, shut the frig*replace with appropriate word* up, you have no interest here
If you are a member of CVA, shut the frig*replace with appropriate word* up, and stop flaming
Archbishop: As far as I can tell you are mearly friends of CVA, and as such have no possible way of knowing the internals of what you are talking about. Let the leaders of the alliances sort this out.
All:
Freighters can only drop stuff, they cannot pick stuff up.
It makes a fair bit of sense to drop all the stuff at once (around the time you claim soverignty) to avoid drawing attention to yourself whilst you put up an outpost. They seem like sitting ducks when they are going up.
CVA did not start this when the POS's went up, they started it after the soverignty was claimed.
This shows that the problem is not the POS's themselves but the soverignty. And following that the outpost.
-OR-
It shows that the system is not travelled or used by CVA for any purpose other than to say that they own it.
Finally: Stop arguing about the definition of the word 'to'
It is used to mean the outer limit. Either inclusive or non-inclusive (that was why the term 'up to and including' was coined, to get around this problem.)
If CVA wanted to ensure no problems they really should have taken the time to write a complete list stating what systems were taken.
When placing an outpost so close to CVA space ISS should have asked if it was an acceptable location.
Finally (honset this time):
Is there anything that can be done (assuming ISS will not move their POSes) that will appease CVA. Please only answer this part if you CAN SPEAK FOR THE WHOLE OF CVA.
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2006.04.22 10:55:00 -
[506]
Originally by: Golan Trevize
Ive tried...
Instead ive been branded hereric...CVA leadership know the lenghtsts ive gone to..these matters of personal honour will be resolved in space at a apropiate time.
otherwise my channles are still open and i am still working for a peacefull solution to this tradegy...
I'm sure the CVA would love to open talks again Golan, but how many more private conversations are going to find their way onto GalNet?
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Golan Trevize
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:06:00 -
[507]
In all my comms with Arails he has been aware that i would post chat logs to the M-C client.
So find another way to insult me....and ill deal with it accordingly.
The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:07:00 -
[508]
Originally by: Golan Trevize
In all my comms with Arails he has been aware that i would post chat logs to the M-C client.
So find another way to insult me....and ill deal with it accordingly.
But not the public forums.
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Golan Trevize
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:19:00 -
[509]
its unimportant..........what matters is a peacyeull sollution to this tradgedy.
The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
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Ethidium Bromide
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:37:00 -
[510]
then ISS should move to a system out of the claimed constellation.
however i am sure nobody wants ISS in providence as their 'you don't shoot us you can use the outpost' policy will only attract pirates and other criminals and offer them a safe harbour in a region of space they did not have one before.
_________________________________
just because you are not paranoid doesn't mean i'm not following!
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