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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Mr Trouble
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Posted - 2006.04.21 15:13:00 -
[421]
Edited by: Mr Trouble on 21/04/2006 15:14:28
Originally by: Riddari Mr Trouble is hereby advised to attend reading classes at the University of Caille, his previous academic institution seems to have done a woeful job in the "reading comprehension" seminar.
exactly what part of anything I have said is incorrect?
1) CVA did not claim the space, they only planned to at some point in the future 2) They delcared war on ISS over some POS in space they did not currently claim 3) Declaring war on the ISS and being threatening and aggressive from the outset doesnt exactly help their cause 4) Aralis has a personal dislike for the ISS as outlined in his leaked conversation with an MC official, he doesnt want them in Providence AT ALL 5) ISS offered to move the POS 1 system further out from CVA space - they rejected this outright
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Lis Dimar
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Posted - 2006.04.21 15:21:00 -
[422]
Originally by: Manfred Doomhammer
Originally by: Mr Trouble
Originally by: Garreck
Yes.
If an alliance is talking to us to resolve problems.
Which they were.
As I recall you declared war while count was ill and unable to connect to Galnet to resume full discussions.
wich isnt CVAs fault, and wich didnt prevent ISS from deploying these POSes, so what?
Maybe the members of CVA should show some humanity and respect that Count had real life things to deal with which should allways take priority over a game. |
Mr Trouble
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Posted - 2006.04.21 15:24:00 -
[423]
Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: Mr Trouble exactly what part of anything I have said is incorrect?
The part about CVA declaring war before ISS had a chance to make some sort of official response about moving/not moving the stations.
So you accept the other points then, namely:
1) CVA did not claim the space, they only planned to at some point in the future 2) They delcared war on ISS over some POS in space they did not currently claim 3) Declaring war on the ISS and being threatening and aggressive from the outset doesnt exactly help their cause 4) Aralis has a personal dislike for the ISS as outlined in his leaked conversation with an MC official, he doesnt want them in Providence AT ALL 5) ISS offered to move the POS 1 system further out from CVA space - they rejected this outright
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Garreck
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Posted - 2006.04.21 15:24:00 -
[424]
Originally by: Lis Dimar Maybe the members of CVA should show some humanity and respect that Count had real life things to deal with which should allways take priority over a game.
Count made his official response (no, the stations stay) before war was declared...so his availability is really not even an issue.
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Manfred Doomhammer
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Posted - 2006.04.21 15:24:00 -
[425]
Originally by: Mr Trouble Edited by: Mr Trouble on 21/04/2006 15:14:28
Originally by: Riddari Mr Trouble is hereby advised to attend reading classes at the University of Caille, his previous academic institution seems to have done a woeful job in the "reading comprehension" seminar.
exactly what part of anything I have said is incorrect?
1) CVA did not claim the space, they only planned to at some point in the future 2) They delcared war on ISS over some POS in space they did not currently claim 3) Declaring war on the ISS and being threatening and aggressive from the outset doesnt exactly help their cause 4) Aralis has a personal dislike for the ISS as outlined in his leaked conversation with an MC official, he doesnt want them in Providence AT ALL 5) ISS offered to move the POS 1 system further out from CVA space - they rejected this outright
well.. repeating misinformation wont make it right all of a sudden... id agree with riddari here, even as im startled at the obvious low standards on graduating the science and trade institue nowadays.
cva CLAIMED this space, as was communicated to ISS. there have been various notions throughout this thread that its common practice to CLAIM a System without Fortifying it... happens in all alliances out there. So, ISS placed the pos into CVA claimed space... and then admitted in this very thread you failed to read propperly obviously that there was a misunderstanding of their part.... so much even has been agreed upon.
If it was a wise decision of Mr Trevice to relay content of a private conversation is something else to discuss, it wont belong here though. ISS offered to move the POSes one system, into CVA claimed space... they could have gone 2 systems and would have been right outside CVA space, why that avenue was not pursued escapes my knowledge though. In case you ask me ill repeat the system name again (did it previously) DP-JD4 . That system would be IN providence but OUTSIDE CVA claimed space... ----
Manfred Doomhammer CEO ShadowTec Inc.
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Mr Trouble
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Posted - 2006.04.21 15:25:00 -
[426]
Originally by: Manfred Doomhammer [
cva CLAIMED this space, as was communicated to ISS.
NO, they did NOT.
CVA said they PLANNED to expand TO the system in question - no-one is questioning this apart from you.
CVA have admitted it, ISS have admitted it.
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Royaldo
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Posted - 2006.04.21 15:28:00 -
[427]
Originally by: Mr Trouble Edited by: Mr Trouble on 21/04/2006 15:14:28
Originally by: Riddari Mr Trouble is hereby advised to attend reading classes at the University of Caille, his previous academic institution seems to have done a woeful job in the "reading comprehension" seminar.
exactly what part of anything I have said is incorrect?
1) CVA did not claim the space, they only planned to at some point in the future 2) They delcared war on ISS over some POS in space they did not currently claim 3) Declaring war on the ISS and being threatening and aggressive from the outset doesnt exactly help their cause 4) Aralis has a personal dislike for the ISS as outlined in his leaked conversation with an MC official, he doesnt want them in Providence AT ALL 5) ISS offered to move the POS 1 system further out from CVA space - they rejected this outright
heres something for you yo think about: 1. look at the alliance map here 2. check bob's space. 3. check ingame to see how many of them bob systems got a pos claiming it. 4. bob was just an example. 5. who are you? and have you ever used the space cva claim?
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kincajou niten
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Posted - 2006.04.21 15:33:00 -
[428]
Originally by: Mr Trouble
Originally by: Manfred Doomhammer [
cva CLAIMED this space, as was communicated to ISS.
NO, they did NOT.
CVA said they PLANNED to expand TO the system in question - no-one is questioning this apart from you.
CVA have admitted it, ISS have admitted it.
I guess you was not participating in the conversation between Aralis and ISS staff, so I believe it would be perfect for you not to make such assumptions because they only make you look stupid.
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Manfred Doomhammer
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Posted - 2006.04.21 15:34:00 -
[429]
Originally by: Mr Trouble
Originally by: Manfred Doomhammer [
cva CLAIMED this space, as was communicated to ISS.
NO, they did NOT.
CVA said they PLANNED to expand TO the system in question - no-one is questioning this apart from you.
CVA have admitted it, ISS have admitted it.
Claim
as you young fledglings seem to not even get to use a dictionary anymore nowadays ad the SaTI, I searched that word up for you...
claim Cross references: 1. demand 1. claim \'kla-m\ \'kla--m*-b*l\ \-m*nt\ vt [ME claimen, fr. OF clamer, fr. L clamare to cry out, shout;]akin to L calare to call - more at LOW 1a: to ask for esp. as a right 1b: to call for : REQUIRE 2: to assert in the face of possible contradiction : MAINTAIN - claim.able aj 2. claim n 1: a demand for something due or believed to be due {insurance ~} 2a: a right to something; specif : a title to a debt, privilege, or other thing in the possession of another 2b: an assertion open to challenge {a ~ of authenticity} 3: something that is claimed; esp : a tract of land staked out
the bold part might hold some interest for you.
and no, you dont need a pos there necessarily to claim space as someone else noted.. if you get souvereignity there id not say it is claimed... it would be OWNED. can you look thatone up yourself?
----
Manfred Doomhammer CEO ShadowTec Inc.
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Garreck
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Posted - 2006.04.21 15:41:00 -
[430]
Originally by: Mr Trouble So you accept the other points then, namely:
Okay, if I must...
Originally by: Mr Trouble
1) CVA did not claim the space, they only planned to at some point in the future
A non-issue. ISS asked for an outline of our borders and we gave it to them. Now they have placed four stations inside those borders. That we did not yet have stations there does not change the fact that an agreement made in good faith was broken.
Originally by: Mr Trouble
2) They delcared war on ISS over some POS in space they did not currently claim
We do not officially claim it, but we did specify that it was "our" space. I suppose it remains to be seen if we can support that claim. That ISS has pushed us to the point where we should have to support the military feasibility of the claim, though, is a bit curious...
Originally by: Mr Trouble
3) Declaring war on the ISS and being threatening and aggressive from the outset doesnt exactly help their cause
Strong language is necessary to get results. Aralis was forward and firm...but polite. It was made known that CVA was willing to protect our claim with force, and now our hand has been called. Now, after our request for ISS to move the stations has been denied, we turn to armed conflict to solve the problem.
Originally by: Mr Trouble
4) Aralis has a personal dislike for the ISS as outlined in his leaked conversation with an MC official, he doesnt want them in Providence AT ALL
Largely irrelevant. Whether Aralis likes ISS or not, it was not Aralis who broke an agreement. Indeed, by dishonoring the agreement, ISS seems to be affirming Aralis' feelings about them.
Originally by: Mr Trouble
5) ISS offered to move the POS 1 system further out from CVA space - they rejected this outright
Incorrect. If I'm not mistaken, the only offer of moving the stations was actually 1 system further INTO CVA space...though I was not privy to the negotiations.
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Mr Trouble
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Posted - 2006.04.21 15:45:00 -
[431]
Originally by: Royaldo
heres something for you yo think about: 1. look at the alliance map here
Funny that, the disputed system is significantly outside CVA's current claimed space.
Exactly as I said it was.
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Garreck
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Posted - 2006.04.21 15:49:00 -
[432]
Originally by: Mr Trouble
Originally by: Royaldo
heres something for you yo think about: 1. look at the alliance map here
Funny that, the disputed system is significantly outside CVA's current claimed space.
Exactly as I said it was.
The point (which you seem to have a habit of missing) was that a lot of "claimed" space on that map is just dead space with no stations in it...which, by the logic you're applying to CVA makes the claims invalid.
To address your concerns about the contents of the map as applies to CVA, though...it has already been stated that the CVA does not report their claims to the organization responsible for that map. Our agreement was with ISS, and the details of the map are irrelevant to the terms of that agreement.
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kincajou niten
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Posted - 2006.04.21 15:52:00 -
[433]
I suspect that Mr. Trouble is taking some forbidden drugs. Here is why:
- he is very hyperactive and agressive; - he forgets quickly what happened in the past couple of hours or messes it up; - he can't read properly; - he can't concentrate his attention on the certain thing and instantly moves on to the other things; - it looks like he has some fixed idea that makes him act more weird.
I think it would be very good if customs can check and if that is the case, pass him to the medical centre (or probably to CONCORD rep).
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Garreck
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Posted - 2006.04.21 15:54:00 -
[434]
Originally by: kincajou niten I think it would be very good if customs can check and if that is the case, pass him to the medical centre (or probably to CONCORD rep).
I'm sure Archbishop and the SPCS could clean him up well and make good use of him...
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Mr Trouble
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:00:00 -
[435]
So let me ask CVA - are you willing to let ISS keep POS in the system? What harm are they doing?
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Chain Gang
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:00:00 -
[436]
LOL ...
The proposed system was / is outside your Claimed Space, Maybe Claimed space and Soon Space.
CVA .... has more leaks than the titanic ...
How about Aralis private conversation stating that ..
"No matter where ISS go in Providence we will not be happy" and we will find a reason to fight them ...
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Ridek Cremmen
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:01:00 -
[437]
Might one so humble as myself suggest that there are two possible solutions that should be put on the table that would work for either side I think.
1) CVA accepts the bases in the system in question, the ISS agrees that the system remain under CVA control and laws and will provide 10% of the profit from those systems to the CVA. In essence pay taxes for the use of a CVA system to help provide for it's defense. This would allow the CVA control of the system, let them make a profit from the resources and still allow the ISS to use the system just under the CVA laws for access.
OR
2) ISS agrees to vacate the systems in question to avoid conflict. CVA agrees to cover the costs associated with the move and to provide escort to ensure the moves safety. By doing this CVA acknowledges that they do have some responsablity in this matter do to miscommunications. By eating the cost of the move CVA shows that is acepts that responsability and ISS acknowledges the soveriegnty of the systems in question.
Both solutions are fair compromises that will allow each side to benefit from them.
I will gladly offer my services as negotiator in this matter as a disinterested thrid party if needed. (No fee required)
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Krackerjack
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:02:00 -
[438]
Originally by: Chain Gang
"No matter where ISS go in Providence we will not be happy" and we will find a reason to fight them ...
That is the crux of the issue.
CVA were looking for an excuse for war. They deliberately made their statements regarding territorial intent ambigous. And then they cried 'war' at the drop of a hat.
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Mr Trouble
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:03:00 -
[439]
Originally by: Ridek Cremmen Might one so humble as myself suggest that there are two possible solutions that should be put on the table that would work for either side I think.
1) CVA accepts the bases in the system in question, the ISS agrees that the system remain under CVA control and laws and will provide 10% of the profit from those systems to the CVA. In essence pay taxes for the use of a CVA system to help provide for it's defense. This would allow the CVA control of the system, let them make a profit from the resources and still allow the ISS to use the system just under the CVA laws for access.
OR
2) ISS agrees to vacate the systems in question to avoid conflict. CVA agrees to cover the costs associated with the move and to provide escort to ensure the moves safety. By doing this CVA acknowledges that they do have some responsablity in this matter do to miscommunications. By eating the cost of the move CVA shows that is acepts that responsability and ISS acknowledges the soveriegnty of the systems in question.
Both solutions are fair compromises that will allow each side to benefit from them.
I will gladly offer my services as negotiator in this matter as a disinterested thrid party if needed. (No fee required)
This could work - what does CVA say to that?
Mind you, I doubt ISS are going to be willing to talk all the time you have them wardecced.
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Zooish
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:04:00 -
[440]
Better options ...
1) The CVA remove the War Dec and everybody talks like adults
2) The CVA / ISS fight ....
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Chain Gang
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:05:00 -
[441]
Quote: How about Aralis private conversation stating that ..
"No matter where ISS go in Providence we will not be happy" and we will find a reason to fight them ...
Kinda quiet now CVA .......... message logs are such an intresting read .... your own leader sinks your battleship and argument.
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Manfred Doomhammer
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:05:00 -
[442]
Originally by: Chain Gang LOL ...
The proposed system was / is outside your Claimed Space, Maybe Claimed space and Soon Space.
CVA .... has more leaks than the titanic ...
How about Aralis private conversation stating that ..
"No matter where ISS go in Providence we will not be happy" and we will find a reason to fight them ...
now, its considered impolite at least to try what you just did, by mixing a quiote with something of your own finishing the sentence.
From the info of your Corp Anger Management i see that it was created by Mongo Peck, a member of the ISSN. You of course are in NO relation to him whatsoever, and you are not playing the role of a guise of certain Mr. Peck, right?
i should have checked some pages back allready. ----
Manfred Doomhammer CEO ShadowTec Inc.
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Garreck
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:06:00 -
[443]
Originally by: Chain Gang "No matter where ISS go in Providence we will not be happy"
A fair and honest statement.
Originally by: Chain Gang
and we will find a reason to fight them ...
A figment of your imagnation.
Originally by: Mr Trouble So let me ask CVA - are you willing to let ISS keep POS in the system?
I think the CVA declaration of war answers that question directly enough.
Originally by: Mr Trouble
What harm are they doing?
This, too, has been addressed. The stations are in our space which we wish to develop.
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Chain Gang
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:07:00 -
[444]
Quote: now, its considered impolite at least to try what you just did, by mixing a quiote with something of your own finishing the sentence.
From the info of your Corp Anger Management i see that it was created by Mongo Peck, a member of the ISSN. You of course are in NO relation to him whatsoever, and you are not playing the role of a guise of certain Mr. Peck, right?
I play the game an no "shelock" I have nothing to do with the ISS
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Manfred Doomhammer
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:08:00 -
[445]
Originally by: Chain Gang
Quote: now, its considered impolite at least to try what you just did, by mixing a quiote with something of your own finishing the sentence.
From the info of your Corp Anger Management i see that it was created by Mongo Peck, a member of the ISSN. You of course are in NO relation to him whatsoever, and you are not playing the role of a guise of certain Mr. Peck, right?
I play the game an no "shelock" I have nothing to do with the ISS
of course not, how dare i even think that ----
Manfred Doomhammer CEO ShadowTec Inc.
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Chain Gang
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:08:00 -
[446]
Quote: and we will find a reason to fight them ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A figment of your imagnation.
So are you saying that Aralis never said, that ... you sure you want to go down that road
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Garreck
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:08:00 -
[447]
Originally by: Chain Gang
your own leader sinks your battleship and argument.
Hardly. It was not our leader who broke the agreement.
Is it such a mindblowing concept for a principled alliance to stand up for...principles?
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Krackerjack
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:10:00 -
[448]
Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: Chain Gang "No matter where ISS go in Providence we will not be happy"
A fair and honest statement.
Disturbing, more like.
I think that reveals CVA's true motivations for this conflict.
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Garreck
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:11:00 -
[449]
Originally by: Chain Gang
So are you saying that Aralis never said, that ... you sure you want to go down that road
Quite sure. Because the point still stands that it was not CVA who dishonored the agreement.
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OVERCOPES 1
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Posted - 2006.04.21 16:12:00 -
[450]
Originally by: Zooish Better options ...
1) The CVA remove the War Dec and everybody talks like adults
2) The CVA / ISS fight ....
Im all for 2 personally
Technolisa>those yellow things work better than platinum insurance :P |
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