No we won't. Most of lowsec and NPC null industry is built on minerals from reprocessing. They will either reduce their own production to match this, or they will buy more minerals off the market. in both cases overall production volume gets kicked in the nuts.

YOU might not be affected, but the net manufacturing market in the game is going to be impacted negatively by this.

I know I know, just move to Sov Null or High Sec and everything will be ok!

I get all my Megacyte from melting loot and/or melting items purchased for less than their Megacyte content value. I know I'm not the only one who does this. Things will change in Hi.

I hate it then love it then hate it then love it again. Damn game.

Not only is the amount of minerals provided by gun mining tiny but we also have the new POS which will provide more and the 20% more from null stations.

Its not going to be an issue, if anything we will see more minerals on the market.

The amount of MARKETED minerals is tiny. That is because people who are reprocessing loot are directly producing with those minerals. They are not being put into the market as minerals but manufactured product.

Minerals I mine are free right?

Not sure what this has to do with anything I said.

Except all minerals and production doesn't stem from mined material. So either we need more people mining, or less people building to keep the status quo. How is this hard to understand?

Those "free" minerals still have a value.

Anyone who builds using only melted junk is being very inefficient with their time. Its clear you do not manufacture anything.

Now your argument is back to isk/hr. Which has already been established as irrelevant. If everyone wanted ISK/HR then the market would have an even harder time supporting these changes.

Need more people mining, or less people building that is what happens when you reduce mined mineral capacity by a net 10% and reduce reprocessed mineral capacity by 45%.

There is no math in the world that makes this remain at the current status quo...let alone a net increase.

There's obviously going to be less production if people retire their legions of 425mm railgun manufacturers. How can you possibly think that's a bad thing?

Or are you sad that you can't build 10bn isk of the wrong module and then press the big "whoops" button to undo everything?

You think the loss of minerals will hurt the nullsec market, but it also opens up huge opportunities for those same people, as there is more incentive to build in null than before. Or are you shocked that CCP is doing something that makes miners more valuable?

What 10% reduction?

You will mine the exact same amount in high sec in the summer as now. POS will be refining even more and Null up to 20% more. That 45% reduction in refining junk is so small it amounts to less than 5% of a mission runners takings if the mission runner kills and loots everything.

And while we are at it, how long do you think a ship building company will last if it makes no profit? Isk/hr is everything in this area.

The 10% net reduction in refined minerals is the average refining amount in New Eden, across HS, LS and NS. The economy of the game is not just restricted to specific security in encompasses everything. There isn't a region in space that experienced a reduction. At best you are pushing refine numbers to what they were in HS, LS and NPC Null, into one place Sov Null where you will at best break even with todays market.

When you take 37% from 100% and only put 8% back that is not net gain, it is a net loss. HS, LS and NPC Null will all refine at a net loss, with Sov Nulls bonus pulling that net loss across all space to 10% instead of the 19% or so it would normally sit at. Unless all refining is done in Sov Null. (highly unlikely).

Less Minerals entering the market.

Reducing minerals from reprocessing by 45% means those people who build on reprocessed minerals now buy from the market.

More mineral demand from the market.

Less Supply + More Demand =/= Maintaining the status quo.

Go ask Mynnna what supply and demand is and how reducing net supply and increasing net demand produces a net reduction in market capacity.

so you're saying mining will be worth more meaning more people will go do it?


kind of like supply and demand?

Edit: causing market forces to do their thing

The 10% net reduction in refined minerals is the average refining amount in New Eden, across HS, LS and NS. The economy of the game is not just restricted to specific security in encompasses everything. There isn't a region in space that experienced a reduction. At best you are pushing refine numbers to what they were in HS, LS and NPC Null, into one place Sov Null where you will at best break even with todays market.

When you take 37% from 100% and only put 8% back that is not net gain, it is a net loss. HS, LS and NPC Null will all refine at a net loss, with Sov Nulls bonus pulling that net loss across all space to 10% instead of the 19% or so it would normally sit at. Unless all refining is done in Sov Null. (highly unlikely).

Less Minerals entering the market.

Reducing minerals from reprocessing by 45% means those people who build on reprocessed minerals now buy from the market.

More mineral demand from the market.

Less Supply + More Demand =/= Maintaining the status quo.

Go ask Mynnna what supply and demand is and how reducing net supply and increasing net demand produces a net reduction in market capacity.

Go read the dev blog again, miners will be mining more so the is infact no change.

The only benefit to this whole change is Sov Nullsec Mining and Production.

Not that there is anything wrong with it getting some love. But stop pretending that its some great thing for all of EVE, it is a net reduction for all of EVE, to benefit an industry that is nonexistent as is.

(and that is assuming the Sov has the proper starbase in place)

I didn't say it is a bad thing, I said that the market will not be the same as it is now in terms of mineral abundance or production capacity (one or both will suffer). I agree the undo button is silly. But pretending that everything is going to be the same is delusional the math does not support it.

It will most certainly hurt the NS market, and the LS market, and the HS market. Unless of course you suddenly convince people to start mining regularly in LS and NS. Once again this doesn't make miners more valuable, it leave miners at best equal in their current state, that is the design of it. The only way a miner is going to become more valuable is if production remains the same, and no new miners enter the workforce, which will put a net drag on production capacity in EVE.

You don't think I included that in my calculations? Something so important as to an increase in mining yield would have slipped my mind?

God damn son.

The only benefit to this whole change is Sov Nullsec Mining and Production.

Not that there is anything wrong with it getting some love. But stop pretending that its some great thing for all of EVE, it is a net reduction for all of EVE, to benefit an industry that is nonexistent as is.

(and that is assuming the Sov has the proper starbase in place)

There is no loss for the rest of EVE.

Everyone gains from there being a reason to leave high sec for miners, refiners and industrialists.

Whatever you need to tell yourself, it was already more profitable to do all these things in NS. If people didn't want to leave before this probably isn't going to encourage them to leave either.

But lets keep playing the imagination game.

I get it though, you want to down play the "Grr Goon" Folks. I think its great Sov Null is getting indy love, but you need to stop telling blatant falsities. This is a net loss in production capacity, and NS is the only one getting an added gain.

Hope you guys got mining lasers ready!

You have already been told dozens of times that it is currently not more profitable to mine in null, hence why high sec has the vast bulk of both players and bots.

There is no loss to production, they will have just as much if not more minerals as they do now.

272% more isk/m3 max mining in null than HS is a considerable income advantage, I get it though math is hard.

272% more isk/m3 max mining in null than HS is a considerable income advantage, I get it though math is hard.

272% more isk/m3 max mining in null than HS is a considerable income advantage, I get it though math is hard.

Especially when it's your math and it's wrong. Well done.

Easy math friend go check the isk m3 prices and punch the numbers up for yourself. Or would you prefer the 192% average isk/m3 mining all the things. Null Sec is better in every way for mining (but not refining in terms of sov null). But w/e recycled arguments are a waste of time. This change results in less overall production capacity for an increase to Sov mining potential.

So wooopdeee doo. Grrr Goons and all that.

The math isn't hard 19% combined reduction across HS, LS, NS, and an added ~20% in Sov NS =/= status quo. Unless of course all refining is done in Sov Null...but of course we know that isn't going to happen.

This of course ignores the unquantifiable 45% reduction to reprocessing which is a blanket nerf across all space and will dip into markets in HS, LS and NS equally. Which equates to a net reduction in materials available for production, meaning more people will have to mine, or less people will have to produce.

All to benefit a nonexistent Sov Null mining industry. But hey im sure you are right, why would people not jump all over 20% more refining yield when they left 192% isk/m3 sitting there all these years.

Easy math friend go check the isk m3 prices and punch the numbers up for yourself. Or would you prefer the 192% average isk/m3 mining all the things. Null Sec is better in every way for mining (but not refining in terms of sov null). But w/e recycled arguments are a waste of time. This change results in less overall production capacity for an increase to Sov mining potential.

So wooopdeee doo. Grrr Goons and all that.

The math isn't hard 19% combined reduction across HS, LS, NS, and an added ~20% in Sov NS =/= status quo. Unless of course all refining is done in Sov Null...but of course we know that isn't going to happen.

This of course ignores the unquantifiable 45% reduction to reprocessing which is a blanket nerf across all space and will dip into markets in HS, LS and NS equally. Which equates to a net reduction in materials available for production, meaning more people will have to mine, or less people will have to produce.

All to benefit a nonexistent Sov Null mining industry.

Easy math friend go check the isk m3 prices and punch the numbers up for yourself. Or would you prefer the 192% average isk/m3 mining all the things. Null Sec is better in every way for mining (but not refining in terms of sov null). But w/e recycled arguments are a waste of time. This change results in less overall production capacity for an increase to Sov mining potential.

So wooopdeee doo. Grrr Goons and all that.

The math isn't hard 19% combined reduction across HS, LS, NS, and an added ~20% in Sov NS =/= status quo. Unless of course all refining is done in Sov Null...but of course we know that isn't going to happen.

This of course ignores the unquantifiable 45% reduction to reprocessing which is a blanket nerf across all space and will dip into markets in HS, LS and NS equally. Which equates to a net reduction in materials available for production, meaning more people will have to mine, or less people will have to produce.

All to benefit a nonexistent Sov Null mining industry. But hey im sure you are right, why would people not jump all over 20% more refining yield when they left 192% isk/m3 sitting there all these years.

So is it 272% or 192% and how did you arrive at that figure? (figures)