Not my problem or fault if you poke, prod, humiliate and grief people who might turn out to be mentally unstable individuals who suddenly might show up IRL in your face, doorstep or an event you are attending.

Im not responsible for your actions, or theirs.

Ill just read about it in the papers and think to myself "Well, they had it coming. Bound to happen sooner or later".

Also to those who associate what happens to the "victim" to torture, USUALLY YOU CANNOT WALK AWAY FROM TORTURE AT ANY GIVEN POINT

And revelling in others misfortune, thats pretty hypocritical right there.

Oh. You mean like Erotica1 revelling in the misfortune of his victims?

Hows that for hypocrisy now?

Im losing count of checkmates here :D

Who the flying hell are you to determine what is "Right" or "Wrong" as a course of action ? How is this different from people losing all their space-business to a rebalane or a market crash ?

The harassment part ? We have Kugu, we have comms, we have propaganda which sole purpose is to dogpile on "The enemy" and make them seem like absolute douchebags. Some take offense, some don't care, but it is exactly the same thing.

Also to those who associate what happens to the "victim" to torture, USUALLY YOU CANNOT WALK AWAY FROM TORTURE AT ANY GIVEN POINT

Read that last sentence again.

Again.

Last time.

If that still isnt enough for you to get the point, Erotica is using people's greed against them. Was his life or health at stake ? Was he held at gunpoint by Erotica and co ?

Was he in any way threatened in real life ? Why did he AGREE to singing ?

Erotica didnt pick him out of all the people in eve to make his life miserable ? He AGREED to it.

After ignoring every warning in the tutorial, he proceeded to willingly give everything he owned in the video-game eve online to a guy he just met.

If he has problems with anything, it's with his own reasoning, and if that's enough to push him over an edge or another and make him go apeshit at his wife, he needs professional help. Not a ban of Erotica.

If banning erotica is the "right course of action", then i deem you untasteful, your writing offends me, and i am calling for a ban of you.

Read malcanis posting once or twice and try to understand what he is saying, because he is actually spot on. "Erotica plays the game in a way i do not like and that many people do not like, ban him".

As they would say in law school, this would create a dangerous precedent.

[quote=Malcanis]


I recall CCP found their morals pretty easily when Mittens stepped out of line at Fan fest.
Did he break any laws? No.
Did he break any in game rules? No.

Was what he did morally reprehensible on every level? Yes

This scenario with Erotica, while different in it's approach, boils down to the same basic elements and should be taken seriously by CCP.

Oh. You mean like Erotica1 revelling in the misfortune of his victims?

Hows that for hypocrisy now?

Sure the victim was complicit in his own troubles, but that change whether Erotica 1 is an asshat. Eve isnt a democracy. The sole issue here is whether CCP should look at what erotica 1 has done and decide if it is good for the game and the community. I have no trouble with that at all.

Calling for people to kill themselves IS breaking a law. So yes, yes he did and paid for it.

I like reading his blogs. That aside, in any other game people doing this type of behaviour would have been banned long ago. I would like to see CCP stand up and say 'there is a line of decency even in a harsh mmo, cross it and be banned'.

Actually I was calling you out for being derogatory towards Ripard - which has absolutely nothing to do with "nothing like me" part. It's the example of why you did not criticize the post rather than saying there's something wrong with a guy doing yoga or pilates - because those have lots to do with the discussion at hand right?

/c

In what country is calling for people to kill themselves against the law? Please link.

So, you literally just set yourself on moral equivalency with someone you are suggesting be perma-banned?

Checkmate, indeed.

It's interesting to see how Erotica's behavior is basically a carbon copy of school bully behavior. The bonus room is nothing more than a bully grabbing a kids bag (or coaxing them to hand it over under friendly pretense) and then making the kid do all kinds of humiliating things in order to get it back. And as with all bullies, this sort of behavior is magnified when the bully has friends who cheer him on (otherwise too scared to intervene in fear of becoming the group's next victim or being thrown out of the group).

Now any school bully would, at some point, be forced to stop. Being it a teacher who intervenes, other kids stepping up or the victim themselves punching them in the gut when pushed too far. But this is the internet. And if there's one place where being a bully is easy, it's the internet. No-one to intervene and the victim in this case is powerless to get back at you. No risk of being punched in the gut in these parts! Would that ability exist, Erotica would have had his ass kicked a long damn time ago and quit his bullying.

The only satisfactory thing we can probably take from this is that Erotica, in real life, is probably on the ass end of this scenario. Being the victim of real life school bullying himself in some degree. I assume he's still in school because I hope no adult person with actual responsibilities in real life does this (or any) amount of online bullying and gets enjoyment out of it.

All in all nothing about this shocks me.

1. Regular people tend to turn into massive sadistic trolls and ***holes on the internet because there is no risk of someone punching you in the face, ever. Not shocking.
2. EVE Roleplaying and 'he should have known better' being used as an excuse too justify bullying behavior within the game. Not shocking.
3. Naive victims in EVE Online who get scammed. Not shocking.
4. Those same victims losing all their stuff and either being humiliated or insulted afterwards. Not shocking.

I can understand how easily one gets dragged into a bullying mode though, especially with friends around things tend to go too far too fast. But where normal people look back a few hours later and go 'oh, sh*t, that really went too far...', there are sadistic children like Erotica who happily do it over and over without a sign of guilt or remorse.

Should the guy be banned for the scam? No. Scamming is part of EVE and he actually does a good job at running it from what I can tell.
Should the guy be banned for being an online bully? No, absolutely not. But CCP should make it clear that online bullying like this is unacceptable, period. There is a very distinct line between interacting with an in-game character and bullying a human being. And I would have no problem with CCP enforcing that line.

Anyway, should Erotica1 ever show his face at Fanfest or the CSM and someone decides to roundhouse kick him to the floor... well... I just hope he won't act surprised over it.

Sure the victim was complicit in his own troubles, but that doesnt change whether Erotica 1 is an asshat. Eve isnt a democracy. The sole issue here is whether CCP should look at what erotica 1 has done and decide if it is good for the game and the community. I have no trouble with that at all.

Who the flying hell are you to determine what is "Right" or "Wrong" as a course of action ? How is this different from people losing all their space-business to a rebalane or a market crash ?

The harassment part ? We have Kugu, we have comms, we have propaganda which sole purpose is to dogpile on "The enemy" and make them seem like absolute douchebags. Some take offense, some don't care, but it is exactly the same thing.

Also to those who associate what happens to the "victim" to torture, USUALLY YOU CANNOT WALK AWAY FROM TORTURE AT ANY GIVEN POINT

Read that last sentence again.

Again.

Last time.

If that still isnt enough for you to get the point, Erotica is using people's greed against them. Was his life or health at stake ? Was he held at gunpoint by Erotica and co ?

Was he in any way threatened in real life ? Why did he AGREE to singing ?

Erotica didnt pick him out of all the people in eve to make his life miserable ? He AGREED to it.

After ignoring every warning in the tutorial, he proceeded to willingly give everything he owned in the video-game eve online to a guy he just met.

If he has problems with anything, it's with his own reasoning, and if that's enough to push him over an edge or another and make him go apeshit at his wife, he needs professional help. Not a ban of Erotica.

If banning erotica is the "right course of action", then i deem you untasteful, your writing offends me, and i am calling for a ban of you.

Read malcanis posting once or twice and try to understand what he is saying, because he is actually spot on. "Erotica plays the game in a way i do not like and that many people do not like, ban him".

As they would say in law school, this would create a dangerous precedent.

Case in point.

It's interesting to see how Erotica's behavior is basically a carbon copy of school bully behavior. The bonus room is nothing more than a bully grabbing a kids bag (or coaxing them to hand it over under friendly pretense) and then making the kid do all kinds of humiliating things in order to get it back.

In what country is calling for people to kill themselves against the law? Please link.

Nope.

Because I have not conducted myself in any fashion that would warrant a ban, or even consideration of one :)

Erotica1 has. Repeatedly and with extremely compelling evidence in heaps.

Go ahead. Play this recording over loudspeakers at the next Fanfest, maybe even at the unveiling of the Monument.
I double dare you. Certainly the recording is a shining example of EVEs community and would do great honor and justice to that event, dont you think?

1. I find Erotica behavior despicable. My line is when you get nothing in game for your effort but still continue to goad/insult person out of game just to get reaction out of them. Thats why Im reasonably ok (dont want to really play with them, but dont mind them being in game) with people that scam people out of their ingame assets, but discussed kind of behavior is unacceptable for me.
2. IMO if CCP wanted to act point one of TOS gives them all justification theyd need: "You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or (...)" (abuse: to treat in a harmful, injurious, or offensive way)
3. to avoid slippery slope you can just define this as "abusing people out of game originating in game for no in game purpose".

Emphasis mine.

So how about those death threats and racist slurs, then?

Then ban both. Erotica for longer, since the other has extenuating circumstances (he was actively provoked to do what he did). Somehow I doubt it actually matters if you ban the victim - somehow I dont see him coming back into game after this.

And this...isnt what Erotica1 did?

When the consequences cross over into real life, that what most people consider a boundary being crossed.

As you wish.

French Code Penal article 223-13. Google it, linking doesnt work for some reason.
Roughly translated

"The fact of incitating suicide from a person is punished by three years of imprisonment and a 45000 euros fine when the provocation has been followed by suicide or a suicide attept."

Or is the freaking government site wrong somehow ? Similar laws exist in quite a bit of countries. So yes, i stand by it. This has the potential of being a very serious legal offense.