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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2464
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:01:00 -
[181] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Send this and other recordings to Wired, PCGamer and other gaming/virtual related sites and publications They'll have a field day printing bad press all over this.
Smart play.
Like the null sec cartel CSM member said, no laws are being broken when you forward that to gaming magazines, so have at it. But be advised, as others have said on non- CCP controlled websites, it certainly appears that CCP thinks ANY press is good press. And by linking this horrible example of human behaviour to Eve, and giving it a wider internet audience, may end up attracting more of that type of person to the game. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3416
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:03:00 -
[182] - Quote
Do you people even hear yourselves?
"Extenuating circumstances" for death threats, "He had it coming" for being stalked in real life? Over a videogame?
What kind of twisted caricature of morality do you have where you can justify this to yourselves? Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2432
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:04:00 -
[183] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:And this...isnt what Erotica1 did? Thanks for admitting his guilt :) CHECKMATE, again. My god, you are TERRIBLE at this.
No one denied it.
I guess english isnt your platform of choice huh. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Ameline Veil
uncooperative freight company
0
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:05:00 -
[184] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Simply amazing that people can ignore or excuse the ugly racism and death threats because $20 in space pixels was lost in a gamble.
So here we face a society that believes of it's superiority over other people and cultures. A society that pretends to wage a war for higher curses like democracy, freedom of speech, darwinism or human rights. But i say this is not the case. You choose to wage war for those who gain from it. You wage war and feel offended by the fact that people try to defend them self, no matter how desperate they act.
You ignore the fact that you created your enemy. |
Neltharak Idrissil
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
12
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:06:00 -
[185] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Neltharak Idrissil wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
In what country is calling for people to kill themselves against the law? Please link.
As you wish. French Code Penal article 223-13. Google it, linking doesnt work for some reason. Roughly translated "The fact of incitating suicide from a person is punished by three years of imprisonment and a 45000 euros fine when the provocation has been followed by suicide or a suicide attept." Or is the freaking government site wrong somehow ? Similar laws exist in quite a bit of countries. So yes, i stand by it. This has the potential of being a very serious legal offense. I interpret laws all day every day as a matter of my job and I get it that sometimes people who aren't used to doing so don't understand things. For what the Mittani had done to be illegal in France (The country whose law you link) it would have had to have been FOLLOWED BY suicide or a suicide attempt. Since we know of no such suicide or attempt, what Mittens did was not illgal in the country whose law you linked. Mittani was in Iceland when he uttered those words. Show me Icelandic law on the matter please.
Hence what i said "This HAS THE POTENTIAL of being a very serious legal offense. We agree on that point. I'm not aware of icelandic law. You asked me for an example and i gave you one, but you're right, he might not have broken a law there. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2436
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:07:00 -
[186] - Quote
Ameline Veil wrote: So here we face a society that believes of it's superiority over other people and cultures. A society that pretends to wage a war for higher curses like democracy, freedom of speech, darwinism or human rights. But i say this is not the case. You choose to wage war for those who gain from it. You wage war and feel offended by the fact that people try to defend them self, no matter how desperate they act.
You ignore the fact that you created your enemy.
Forgive me if I have totally misinterpreted your meaning but...
Did you just equate someone being a racist jerk to an irregular guerilla fighter? *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
464
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:09:00 -
[187] - Quote
If someone roundhouse kicked Erotica1, I would laugh and applaud :)
And Im completely within my rights to say and think so, both offline and here on this board.
You can think Im a "bad" person for that, but no law or contract prevents me from laughing or applauding, nor for saying I would.
It wouldnt be me kicking him, and its entirely within my purview how I, as an unassociated autonomous individual, choose to respond to that with laughter and clapping, or to say that that would be my reaction. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5178
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:10:00 -
[188] - Quote
Neltharak Idrissil wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Neltharak Idrissil wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
In what country is calling for people to kill themselves against the law? Please link.
As you wish.French Code Penal article 223-13. Google it, linking doesnt work for some reason. Roughly translated "The fact of incitating suicide from a person is punished by three years of imprisonment and a 45000 euros fine when the provocation has been followed by suicide or a suicide attept." Or is the freaking government site wrong somehow ? Similar laws exist in quite a bit of countries. So yes, i stand by it. This has the potential of being a very serious legal offense. I interpret laws all day every day as a matter of my job and I get it that sometimes people who aren't used to doing so don't understand things. For what the Mittani had done to be illegal in France (The country whose law you link) it would have had to have been FOLLOWED BY suicide or a suicide attempt. Since we know of no such suicide or attempt, what Mittens did was not illgal in the country whose law you linked. Mittani was in Iceland when he uttered those words. Show me Icelandic law on the matter please. Hence what i said "This HAS THE POTENTIAL of being a very serious legal offense. We agree on that point.
Now you's just being silly. See the above highlighted portions.
The poster I was replying to said what mittani did WAS ILLEGAL. I asked for a link to a country where simply uttering some words about suicide was illegal. You link a law that only makes it illegal IF a suicide or attempt occurs, which has nothing to do with what I asked for or what I was replying to.
An act is either illegal, or legal. What mittani did was not illegal under the law you linked. You were wrong.
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Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
848
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:10:00 -
[189] - Quote
Jita Otsito wrote:1. I find Erotica behavior despicable. My line is when you get nothing in game for your effort but still continue to goad/insult person out of game just to get reaction out of them. Thats why Im reasonably ok (dont want to really play with them, but dont mind them being in game) with people that scam people out of their ingame assets, but discussed kind of behavior is unacceptable for me. 2. IMO if CCP wanted to act point one of TOS gives them all justification theyd need: "You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or (...)" (abuse: to treat in a harmful, injurious, or offensive way) 3. to avoid slippery slope you can just define this as "abusing people out of game originating in game for no in game purpose".
I think you will find all the abuse and IRL threats are directed at Erotica /James /Minerbumbers/ pirates /awoxers/ thieves /margin scammers and rarely if ever from these groups. Many "victims" of these people are indeed banned by CCP for precisely the reasons you suggest. Time to think about what you have written and to whom it applies. Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
504
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:10:00 -
[190] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bingo. Idk what kind of powerless, spineless person you have to be to think that hurt feelings equates to actual violence.
I'm not saying that hurt feelings automatically means you get to beat someone up. I'm saying that every action has a consequence and that an internet bully shouldn't think he's safe from those consequences just because it's the internet. Push someone for long enough or hard enough and they will want to hurt you. That's human nature. And if you then arrange yourself to be in the same general area (Iceland) as the person you remotely pushed for long enough, you shouldn't act surprised if he takes a swing at you. There comes a point where you have it coming. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
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arabella blood
Revenant Tactical
201
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:12:00 -
[191] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Actually the gay thing is particularly dangerous because there are lots of people who find homosexuality disgusting and offensive, but also plenty who find homophobia the same. We could get everybody banned just by asking them if they hate gays or not.
CSM Malcanis spinnig the thread towards talking about gay rights instead of the issue. Is that the same known CSM tactics of shutting down any player resistance? Yeah. Keep extinguishing fires.
Keep it going, we will sure get far. How about you concetrate on the matter? Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
2737
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:13:00 -
[192] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bingo. Idk what kind of powerless, spineless person you have to be to think that hurt feelings equates to actual violence.
I'm not saying that hurt feelings automatically means you get to beat someone up. I'm saying that every action has a consequence and that an internet bully shouldn't think he's safe from those consequences just because it's the internet. Push someone for long enough or hard enough and they will want to hurt you. That's human nature. And if you then arrange yourself to be in the same general area (Iceland) as the person you remotely pushed for long enough, you shouldn't act surprised if he takes a swing at you. There comes a point where you have it coming.
If this actually happened, the person taking a swing would be in the wrong, whether his victim 'had it coming' or not. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5178
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:13:00 -
[193] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:If someone roundhouse kicked Erotica1, I would laugh and applaud :)
And Im completely within my rights to say and think so, both offline and here on this board.
You can think Im a "bad" person for that, but no law or contract prevents me from laughing or applauding, nor for saying I would.
It wouldnt be me kicking him, and its entirely within my purview how I, as an unassociated autonomous individual, choose to respond to that with laughter and clapping, or to say that that would be my reaction.
You are within your rights to do all that. We are within our right to laugh at you when such things happen because you had it coming to you.
See, this is the problem. You are advocating the banning of a person who did something you think is bad while at the same time saying that YOU would do something that almost all of us think would be bad (laughing Erotica1 being physically assaulted for playing a video game). It makes you every bit as morally reprehensible as the person you think needs to be banned.
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Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
466
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:17:00 -
[194] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:It makes you every bit as morally reprehensible as the person you think needs to be banned.
Nope.
Because my laughter and applause is directed at someone who has been actively griefing and humiliating other human beings beyond the pale of civility, even considering the circumstances of EVE as a game, getting it back right in the face.
Erotica1 deliberately, and provably, griefs and humiliates other human beings beyond the scope of the games systems.
I have not.
I'd be genuinely scared for my own security if I was Erotica1, as a result of his chosen actions towards other human beings. World is full of crazies, you know. Not like its unprecedented. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5184
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:17:00 -
[195] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bingo. Idk what kind of powerless, spineless person you have to be to think that hurt feelings equates to actual violence.
I'm not saying that hurt feelings automatically means you get to beat someone up. I'm saying that every action has a consequence and that an internet bully shouldn't think he's safe from those consequences just because it's the internet. Push someone for long enough or hard enough and they will want to hurt you. That's human nature. And if you then arrange yourself to be in the same general area (Iceland) as the person you remotely pushed for long enough, you shouldn't act surprised if he takes a swing at you. There comes a point where you have it coming.
This belief of yours in wholly unethical.
The only reason for someone to use physical force is in defense of themselves or another innocent person. There is 100% NOTHING a person can do (even if that thing were to be actually criminal) to justify being assaulted, period. If you believe otherwise it just means that somewhere along the line you weren't taught ethical behavior.
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3421
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:17:00 -
[196] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bingo. Idk what kind of powerless, spineless person you have to be to think that hurt feelings equates to actual violence.
I'm not saying that hurt feelings automatically means you get to beat someone up. I'm saying that every action has a consequence and that an internet bully shouldn't think he's safe from those consequences just because it's the internet. Push someone for long enough or hard enough and they will want to hurt you. That's human nature. And if you then arrange yourself to be in the same general area (Iceland) as the person you remotely pushed for long enough, you shouldn't act surprised if he takes a swing at you. There comes a point where you have it coming.
No, there isn't.
Because you can say precisely the same thing about Monopoly. You can take someone's play money over and over, until they've had enough.
But they are NEVER given a pass for knocking the table over, or threatening to hurt the other players.
Undue, unnatural attachment to freaking play money (in EVE, pixels) is what causes this aberrant overblown emotional reaction. It's not healthy, and it's not ok to be that way. Not one little bit.
The solution is to grow up, get over themselves, and settle the **** down about this game. It's like shooting their television every time they fall down a bottomless pit in Mario Brothers. If it bothers them that much, freaking quit playing and get control of themselves. They're not fit to be among polite society if they have such issues as that. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Buck Futz
New Order Logistics CODE.
190
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:18:00 -
[197] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Hands up everyone who can see a problem with demanding the CCP ban people on the basis of "They haven't broken any game rules, and they haven't broken any laws, but I find them personally distasteful"
There are elements within CCP that tend toward this arbitrary way of thinking, however.
After all, isn't this the same outfit that decided to apparently hand out a 1 year ban to Fon Revedhort for having the temerity to hold unfashionable political views AND run for CSM 7/8?
I can understand CCP not wanting a white supremacist on the CSM - and turfing him from the election. But CCP decided to go further and handed out a lengthy in-game suspension anyway.
Not sure I'm comfortable with CCP handing out bans for what amounts to 'out of game thought-crime'. |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
506
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:20:00 -
[198] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bingo. Idk what kind of powerless, spineless person you have to be to think that hurt feelings equates to actual violence.
I'm not saying that hurt feelings automatically means you get to beat someone up. I'm saying that every action has a consequence and that an internet bully shouldn't think he's safe from those consequences just because it's the internet. Push someone for long enough or hard enough and they will want to hurt you. That's human nature. And if you then arrange yourself to be in the same general area (Iceland) as the person you remotely pushed for long enough, you shouldn't act surprised if he takes a swing at you. There comes a point where you have it coming. If this actually happened, the person taking a swing would be in the wrong, whether his victim 'had it coming' or not.
Sure, of course he'd be in the wrong. Just like a kid taking a swing at his bully in the playground would be in the wrong. But it'd also be understandable. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
466
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:20:00 -
[199] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The only reason for someone to use physical force is in defense of themselves or another innocent person. Or property. Nor does the other person have to qualify as "innocent" in order to legally justify physical force being used in their defense.
You just showed you are lying about having legal training.
Thanks for playing! |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5184
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:20:00 -
[200] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:It makes you every bit as morally reprehensible as the person you think needs to be banned. Nope. Because my laughter and applause is directed at someone who has been actively griefing and humiliating other human beings beyond the pale of civility, even considering the circumstances of EVE as a game, getting it back right in the face. Erotica1 deliberately, and provably, griefs and humiliates other human beings beyond the scope of the games systems. I have not. I'd be genuinely scared for my own security if I was Erotica1. World is full of crazies, you know. Not like its unprecedented.
You'd be laughing at someone who outplayed someone in a video game being physically assaulted. The only thing Erotica1 could do to justify physical assault is physcially assult someone.
If you don't understand why you are wrong, I can't help you understand it now. Such understanding needs to be instilled while a person is still young by parents and by a community that values right and wrong. |
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Enthropic
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
76
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:20:00 -
[201] - Quote
I didnt read through the entire topic, nor did I listen to the entire recording, just the last 30 min when the guy started to lose it.
I can actually understand why the Erotica1 and his buddies enjoyed themselves, it can be fun to a certain point. In my opinion however, the line was clearly crossed. I love drinking internet spaceship drama tears, but you guys should be ashamed.
It was too much and the guy on the other end of the line (although reacting very poorly) was clearly suffering. Not because of the lost ISK, but because of the humiliation. At some point much earlier, you should have simply stopped, but you didnt, I pity you for this attitude. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
466
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:22:00 -
[202] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:You'd be laughing at someone who outplayed someone in a video game being physically assaulted. The only thing Erotica1 could do to justify physical assault is physcially assult someone.
I'd be laughing at someone getting it in the face as a result of their own conduct in deliberately griefing and humiliating other human beings above and beyond the scope of the game itself.
Perfectly justified.
Jenn aSide wrote:If you don't understand why you are wrong, I can't help you understand it now. Such understanding needs to be instilled while a person is still young by parents and by a community that values right and wrong.
Yes. That would seem to be the case for Erotica1. Thanks for supporting that!
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5184
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:23:00 -
[203] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:The only reason for someone to use physical force is in defense of themselves or another innocent person. Or property. Nor does the other person have to qualify as "innocent" in order to legally justify physical force being used in their defense. You just showed you are lying about having legal training. Thanks for playing!
Even in my state (Texas), use of force or deadly force in defense of property must be 'reasonable' where as defense of self or an innocent third person is almost absolute. And the term innocent third person is important because you can't claim self defense for your drug dealing buddy when things go wrong (as an example).
I do so enjoy being called a liar by some untrained and immoral civilian who probably doesn't even live in my country. |
Machagon
Plate of Beans Incorporated Solar Destiny
33
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:25:00 -
[204] - Quote
Malcanis, I love the job you do on the CSM, and I agree 100% with your point about banning people for non-rulebreaking behaviour, but your bullying as homosexuality metaphor here is a huge stretch, not very helpful, and kind of offensive on its own.
I personally think that Erotica 1's behaviour in the audio log is reprehensible and reflects very poorly on him as a human being. I take on the personality of a pirate with no moral compass when I play this game, and I think that the ISK doubling scam is a great one that I support entirely. But, when I am interacting with other EVE players (rather than their characters) I treat them with the same kindness and respect I would any other human being.
There is definitely a line crossed here where this interaction is no longer about EVE in any way and is just one group of out-of-game people bullying another out-of-game person. They are delighting in the distress of his wife, for god's sake.
I don't think Erotica 1 should be banned. I would theoretically love to see a rules change to make this sort of thing bannable, but in practice that's a terrible rabbit hole to go down and entirely unenforceable besides.
What we CAN do, is reflect as a community and decide whether this is something we are really comfortable with. What we can do is stop believing that defending the amazing concept of the true sandbox means we have to defend the behaviour Erotica 1 displays on TS here. This is not a long con, it is bullying. It's real-world harassment. Please don't use my game as a casting call for real world torture victims. |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
506
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:25:00 -
[205] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
No, there isn't.
Because you can say precisely the same thing about Monopoly. You can take someone's play money over and over, until they've had enough.
This isn't about the money, dude. I haven't touched on the money issue at all. Reread my posts. This entire blog and this thread are about the bullying behavior. Making people humiliate themselves in front of a group of people. And the things mentioned in the blog are hardly the worst behavior I've ever heard about within EVE. This is about the way people treat each other as human beings inside of EVE and how that behavior crosses several lines way too often.
Screw the money, seriously. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3421
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:25:00 -
[206] - Quote
I'm up a while past my bedtime, so I'll just part with "in before lock".
To those of you who have expressed that in game activity merits real life violence, to hell with you. Literally. You're morally bankrupt, and you've replaced morality with this caricature of morals prioritizing hurt feelings on the internet above the welfare and safety of actual human beings.
People like you are the reason I post on an alt. Because you lot can't manage to keep the game, within the game. I sincerely urge all of you to quit this game immediately, before you cause harm to a real person. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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arabella blood
Revenant Tactical
203
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Posted - 2014.03.25 14:26:00 -
[207] - Quote
I just hope this thing get out of hand. That this thing hit major gaming sites etc, and create enough talk to actually force some mind change in CCP behaviout towards it.
If that won't work, i sure hope Erotica and his friends falls on the wrong victim. They 1 that will actually finds them IRL. Isnt that RISK VS ISK enough? Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2438
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:26:00 -
[208] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:The only reason for someone to use physical force is in defense of themselves or another innocent person. Or property. Nor does the other person have to qualify as "innocent" in order to legally justify physical force being used in their defense.
Money and perception > life and security from physical harm in your book then
Im going on a limb here but I would bet that you feel there are circumstances where physical and mental torture in real life is justified.
Of course, I dont gamble.
That's a sin. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3429
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:27:00 -
[209] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:I just hope this thing get out of hand. That this thing hit major gaming sites etc, and create enough talk to actually force some mind change in CCP behaviout towards it.
If that won't work, i sure hope Erotica and his friends falls on the wrong victim. They 1 that will actually finds them IRL. Isnt that RISK VS ISK enough?
I know my last post said I was done for now, but...
You sir, are slime. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
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Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
2741
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 14:28:00 -
[210] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: I'd be laughing at someone getting it in the face as a result of their own conduct in deliberately griefing and humiliating other human beings above and beyond the scope of the game itself, with provable malice and intent to cause harm.
Perfectly justified.
Your ideas of what justifies violence concern me somewhat. As an autistic person who got bullied a lot all throughout school, I can tell you now, that kind of violence would be nothing but a display of the attacker's lack of self control. In fact, this whole thread should now be locked for inciting violence against an individual. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
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