You missed a lot. Not necessarily good stuff, but whatever it was, there was a lot of it.

Slowed down now, but earlier about 10 pages every couple of minutes was being added.

Craziest thread ever.

Does CCP really have jurisdiction outside of the game?

Can you point out what page the good stuff is at?

I'm going to read it all anyways, I just REALLY like spoilers!

I'm curious when CCP will lock this thread. Then say "We talking about this and will issue a statement soonGäó" then locks every thread and try to sweep it under the rug.

History shows it happens when you hit page 150 :)

....

I may not agree with Erotica'1 methods but why judge him when he did no wrong in a legal sense.

....

Simple Terms : If the EULA is not breached within the constricts of the fictional world of eve online then CCP is powerless.

Whatever occured outside the confines of eve online is up to the authorities. Now be attentive for this next part.

What constitutes a bigger threat? Making life threatening remarks or goading someone a lil over ts3? You choose. We all know a judge will laugh at this and toss it out or take it serious and put Sohkar in a Orange jumpsuit. Erotica's behavior may be immoral to some but to the real world they do this...../Shrug Shoulders.

Ah, I see now.

If it was inside the EULA or not is nothing I know much about. From what others have posted here one might make that interpretation that it is. I'll await CCP's decision on that.

As for the second part... It is not my opinion that the guy was goaded a little. It is no doubt that he was in severe distress. That distress was brought upon him by Ero and the others. Under that distress he lashed out (and later recanted and apologized). THe most disturbing part to me about Eros and the others behavior is that when their mark shows signs of severe distress they just tighten the screws a little more. That smacks of a severe lack of empathy to me. Lack of empathy is a crucial asset of really dangerous people. And don't say "but in other games..." like you did before. This was outside the game according to your previous statements. You can't have it both ways in order to further one line of your argument.

Where you live perhaps Sohk would be put in jail? I actually think not since he was under pressure at the time. But let's not debate that, neither of us are lawyers.

As for the question whether none, some or all should be banned... I'll leave that to CCP. Personally I'd let the involved explain themselves and then make a decision.

Ah, I see now.

If it was inside the EULA or not is nothing I know much about. From what others have posted here one might make that interpretation that it is. I'll await CCP's decision on that.

As for the second part... It is not my opinion that the guy was goaded a little. It is no doubt that he was in severe distress. That distress was brought upon him by Ero and the others. Under that distress he lashed out (and later recanted and apologized). THe most disturbing part to me about Eros and the others behavior is that when their mark shows signs of severe distress they just tighten the screws a little more. That smacks of a severe lack of empathy to me. Lack of empathy is a crucial asset of really dangerous people. And don't say "but in other games..." like you did before. This was outside the game according to your previous statements. You can't have it both ways in order to further one line of your argument.

Where you live perhaps Sohk would be put in jail? I actually think not since he was under pressure at the time. But let's not debate that, neither of us are lawyers.

As for the question whether none, some or all should be banned... I'll leave that to CCP. Personally I'd let the involved explain themselves and then make a decision.

EULA:

You may not submit any content to any chat room or other public forum within the Game that is harassing, abusive, threatening, harmful, obscene, libelous or defamatory, encourages conduct that could constitute a criminal offense or give rise to civil liabilities, or is unlawful in any other way, including without limitation the submission of content that infringes on a third-partyGÇÖs intellectual property rights.


I believe this "bonus room" breaks this section of the EULA as clearly in the recordings the bonus room interrogators are using eve items as leverage. Which this is recorded and then put in a public blog and forums which directly breaks the above EULA.

CCP have to take action as not doing so sends a very bad message to not only its players but possible future players as well.

I have already had 2 RL friends come up to me today and start a conversation on this matter shocked and horrified that: 1) I play the game. 2) That as far as they can tell CCP promote this kind of behaviour.

They had months to act before this occurred. By doing nothing the statement is clear. Nothing is wrong with it.

You're missing the point anyhow it says "within the Game" Read that EULA closer

I like the "CCP has no right to do anything because it happened outside the game". People seem to forget that CCP has the right to do anything is damn well pleases and could ban anyone for whatever reason they could think up, regardless of it making sense or not.

EULA:

You may not submit any content to any chat room or other public forum within the Game that is harassing, abusive, threatening, harmful, obscene, libelous or defamatory, encourages conduct that could constitute a criminal offense or give rise to civil liabilities, or is unlawful in any other way, including without limitation the submission of content that infringes on a third-partyGÇÖs intellectual property rights.

Read this once again outloud.

Then keep your senses about you. If this happened outside the game then simply put CCP has no case to interfere. Morally or Legally.

6 accounts of mine were cancelled because of this so will wait and see what if anything CCP does

6 accounts of mine were cancelled because of this so will wait and see what if anything CCP does

HI Erotica 1!

I can see that you liked my post of tea!

Just a FYI.

It's earl grey with milk and a bit of honey.

All these "torture" and similar talking points being tossed around by people who are just copying and pasting, most of whom "have no need to see or listen to the chats/recordings."

Read Ripard and Gevlon's comments (in jester trek). Read their wording. They have agendas and don't care about collateral damage.

These whiteknight carebears on such a high moral pedestal, they actually spew hate.

Disgusting.

I welcome any of them to a debate in TS, livestreamed.

Ripard, you want to talk like that? Let's hear it in your voice.

We are adults and should conduct ourselves with respect, keeping the villainy within the game.

mmmm sounds yummy

6 accounts of mine were cancelled because of this so will wait and see what if anything CCP does

It is not up to us or CCP to 'police the world' but they should be invested in protecting people from real world harm and protecting their reputation. As well as protecting the sandbox in game world as a harsh, unforgiving and dangerous place inhabited by psychopaths, zealots and all manner of unhinged capsuleers.

The several strawman arguments raised against the example of CCP interference are truly fallacious. I believe it is undeniable that the actions demonstrated here are reprehensible and should not remain unchallenged.

We are adults and should conduct ourselves with respect, keeping the villainy within the game.

Okay... I've been reading this since page one and cannot resist contributing an opinion - which is what forums are for.


I have been aware of Erotica1 for a long time since I first saw the spam in Jita local. I have played the ISK doubling game and have played the bonus room. (no, there's no recording of me singing or throwing a fit, sorry...) I was interested in learning how it all worked and figured out pretty quickly that Erotica1 is quite possibly the sharpest and most cunning scammer in EVE.

The detailed rules that hook in the punters by stoking their greed with the legitimising and confidence inspiring early payouts encourage the gullible to dive right in.

Erotica1's skills at social engineering are very good and I have no problem with having such deadly sharks swimming in our EVE pool. The unwary should be able to be fleeced or robbed of every ISK and every asset they own in the game.


And this is where this breaks it for me. In the game. Characters are one thing - when in character, kill, threaten, steal, lie, cheat. All is good. On TS3 - I am me, not Lucretia DeWinter. That boundary is the extent of the New Eden universe.


Once you carry over a scam (or emergent gameplay) into the extra-game world, I believe it does actually cross a line. There are several reasons I hold this belief:

• External communications are not protected by CCP - in game actions are logged and can be investigated.
• EVE assets have value. Perhaps not real world court of law value, but they have emotional and psychological value which is no different to tangible material goods to the person who owns them.
• Skilled communicators can deceive and coerce extremely effectively and easily over forums or voice comms - the impersonal protections offered by anonymity make it very easy for people to disregard all standards of conduct without accountability for their actions.

Taking the example of Jester's blog and the soundcloud, I believe that:

• Erotica1 et al crossed a line into unacceptable behaviour. Although players enter the bonus room willingly, once they gave up their assets (which I don't deny is a stupid thing to do) they are then used as leverage to extort and coerce and it is at this point that the player becomes a victim.
• That they could leave at any time is no defence. There is huge pressure, skillfully applied, to so massively disincentivse just quitting and walking away. Your boss could casually mention that times are hard and there might have to be layoffs, oh, and can you work late tonight? There's no threats or blackmail here, but its the same concept.
• If ever somebody comes into the conversation and says, "Okay, Please stop" - and they continue to humiliate and denigrate their victim - that is way out of order.

If it were up to me, I would propose the following actions:

• Erotica1 and helpers should be informed that although scamming is an accepted practice in New Eden, great care should be taken to preserve the dignity and wellbeing of the real life people behind the character. Humiliating people for public or private publication should be considered an ethical breach of the EULA (the conduct section) and moving forward, future events such as this example will result in a ban from CCP services. (and I mean a proper ban - with payment card/IP address blacklisting)
• Sohkar receives a temp ban. This is a result of the language and threats made to Erotica1. This is mitigated from a permanent ban due to the duress under which the comments are made. It should be explained why a ban has been implemented.

I believe we as a community should make it known that this extra-EVE meta-scamming is not what we should want to be representative of the game and community we engage with.

I believe that CCP has a responsibility to investigate these cases and where they feel necessary, take action, regardless of whether it happens in game or out, these are EVE players, using our community and game world to drive and facilitate these scenarios.


It is not up to us or CCP to 'police the world' but they should be invested in protecting people from real world harm and protecting their reputation. As well as protecting the sandbox in game world as a harsh, unforgiving and dangerous place inhabited by psychopaths, zealots and all manner of unhinged capsuleers.

The several strawman arguments raised against the example of CCP interference are truly fallacious. I believe it is undeniable that the actions demonstrated here are reprehensible and should not remain unchallenged.

We are adults and should conduct ourselves with respect, keeping the villainy within the game.