And what happens when some griefer corp, who is always looking for industrial corps to attack. spends a couple billion on small POS's, anchors them, then deadzones a few systems, and says "come at us".

Null sec game mechanics come en masse to high sec.
I was right, the PoCo's were just the first of many steps to ruin high sec industry.

my apologies i mis read it. i posted something similar to someone else and i thought u had quoted that one

And what happens when some griefer corp, who is always looking for industrial corps to attack. spends a couple billion on small POS's, anchors them, then deadzones a few systems, and says "come at us". When there are very few moons available to put up POS's at in high sec, that is going to create a massive demand for station mfg, and then this huge cost is incurred by the majority of the player base, while those that work with the griefing corps, well, they get a POS available , and a massive cost advantage over those forced to use the station mfg.

Brilliant system.
Null sec game mechanics come en masse to high sec.
I was right, the PoCo's were just the first of many steps to ruin high sec industry.

Ok. I'm intrigued and I'll wait patiently for the rest of the plan to be unveiled.

As someone who builds Titans I'd just like to get another voice behind considerations for POS building.

Reducing copy time would certainly be viable for Hull Building after a brief delay to get copies started after the first post patch build that will be fine.

Components tho. Assuming a 1man corp which is going to be a must without lockdown. You still need to keep either 30Bil of BPOs in a POS anc choose betwen gambling on a successful defense or destroying around 20Bil in minerals to retrieve the BPOs while the POS is being reinforced. Or drastically increase your hauling from Refine minerals in station and haul to POS in system. To Refine minerals in Station and haul through a stargate to an Amarr station and then haul components from station to POS to build the ship off a BPC.

I already use 8 freighters multiboxed and consider the existing movement excessive. This would be hundreds of trips.

Upping the copies on a component BPC to 45-50 would be start as long as copy time is <= build time.

Otherwise allowing mineral recovery when jobs are cancelled would be an option but it forces a very very high attention level on POSes and makes eve a literal job to avoid catastrophic loss of assets.

I know supercap builders are the 1% but please don't make the extreme edge cases of ****** mechanics worse for us.

research and copy slots are booked months in advance. It can be very difficult finding a high sec station that is within 10-20 jumps of a trade hub, with available office and available manufacturing slots. Remember, the office slots are still limited.

Alt corp with super hardened high sec large POS will be the way to go.

Remove the ability for players to use stations to safely store their blueprints without putting them at risk in Starbase structures. Players will still be able to start their jobs remotely (via the use of Supply Chain Management and Scientific Networking skills), but will now have to move their blueprints directly into the starbase structures that require it, like other materials.

Worst change in this feature.


another Super capital nerf... thanks CCP.... with this change if you want to produce a supercapital ship you know have to risk all of your assets whcih can be hundreds of billions of isk. or spend months copying your blueprints to build 1 ship...


this has now given eve online 50% of the work for Supercap Proliferation... this changes coupled with the change to compression... expect price increases of 50%-100% of current hull values. of supercarriers and titans if they are produced at all...

You know, CCP could have just banned the use of BPOs worth more than 100 mil in low/null POSes starting with the summer expansion and the resulting gameplay would have been identical, but with less debate.

everyone shut the **** up, you lock down your ****** BPO's in station, and make copes in the station then use you BPC in the pos

Because adding valueless steps and making industry more complicated is what we wanted in an indy expansion.

Casual players are not allowed to play Eve.
Didn't you get the memo?
They are directing anyone who has a real life and can't commit at least 2 hours a day every day to Eve to wait for Star Citizen to boot up.

I must admit, Mike Azariah has done another bang-up job defending the high sec casual player.

This 100x over! If you want to eliminate invention just come out and say it. When shall we expect Tech 2 BPOs to be seeded on the market?

...
The new "scale price to usage" price mechanism for slots is likely going ito make copy slots prohibitively expensive. The alt corp with large POS is going to be the cheaper alternative.

From your dev blog

In turn, this allows us to change several points:
GÇó Allow Starbases to be anchored anywhere in high-security space and without standing requirements (minus some protected solar systems, like Jita or new player starting systems of course).




GÇó Remove the ability for players to use stations to safely store their blueprints without putting them at risk in Starbase structures.



Players will still be able to start their jobs remotely (via the use of Supply Chain Management and Scientific Networking skills), but will now have to move their blueprints directly into the starbase structures that require it, like other materials.
GÇó Improve Mobile Laboratories and Assembly Arrays to compensate for such risk GÇô weGÇÖll give you final numbers as soon as we have them.
GÇó Reduce copy time on all blueprints to be less time consuming than manufacturing something out of it. This gives the option to use blueprint copies to build items at Starbases without risking the original.


Please take note of the single highlighted line, don't you think before you jump in with both feet that you should improve the almost non-existent, pitifully inadequate self defence AI of POS's before you force more valuable stuff into them and therefore " at Risk "
Players cannot all be online 24-7-365 so greater self defence needs to be in there until Corp members can at least get on line in their time zone. To deal fairly with a given situation, at least that way you have a chance to have a reasonable balance in game, you know what I mean, 'the balance' you seem to advertise and hold in front of everyone on a big banner every time you change stuff.

In earlier response, CCP already mentioned realizing they need to do something about offline POSes holding moons. Let's see if they come up with a good solution to that.

And what happens when some griefer corp, who is always looking for industrial corps to attack. spends a couple billion on small POS's, anchors them, then deadzones a few systems, and says "come at us". When there are very few moons available to put up POS's at in high sec, that is going to create a massive demand for station mfg, and then this huge cost is incurred by the majority of the player base, while those that work with the griefing corps, well, they get a POS available , and a massive cost advantage over those forced to use the station mfg.

Brilliant system.
Null sec game mechanics come en masse to high sec.
I was right, the PoCo's were just the first of many steps to ruin high sec industry.

Considering how quick and easy it will be to move BPC's via shuttle several jumps in any direction from a market hub this would be completely impractical. Do you have any concept of what it would cost, or more importantly the time that would be involved in set up and maintenance, trying to blanket every moon in every system within a 5 or 10 jump radius of Jita? We are talking a mere 5 or 10 minutes of travel time.

Not really a cause for concern.

What's wrong is that you read too much into it GÇö specifically, I'm not talking about demand at all. I'm saying that if BPO holders produce slightly more and inventors produce the same as ever, the difference in supply will be so small as to not have any appreciable effect.

As luck would have it, there is an increase in risk that goes along with it if they want to really make full use of that increased output potential.

What is the point in trying to nerf Invention? Failing to really understand the logic behind this change. Surely putting more power into the hands of T2 BPO holders is a bad thing.

And what happens when some griefer corp, who is always looking for industrial corps to attack. spends a couple billion on small POS's, anchors them, then deadzones a few systems, and says "come at us". When there are very few moons available to put up POS's at in high sec, that is going to create a massive demand for station mfg, and then this huge cost is incurred by the majority of the player base, while those that work with the griefing corps, well, they get a POS available , and a massive cost advantage over those forced to use the station mfg.

Brilliant system.
Null sec game mechanics come en masse to high sec.
I was right, the PoCo's were just the first of many steps to ruin high sec industry.

Right, just like how goons and RvB didn't blanket how many systems with their PoCo's in a matter of days?
And as for maintenance on these POS's, who said anything about fueling them up?

Some of these griefer corps spend billions on war decs. Now they just spend it on deadzoning systems and wait for the war decs to come to them.

And who is also talking about just BPC's being moved?
If the typical player is forced to move his manufacturing 10 jumps out from a trade hub, he is incurring a huge opportunity cost in time, PLUS a massive risk moving stuff that extra distance.

This is just another attack on the casual high sec player.

I am so glad I shut down my indy accounts a couple years ago.
That being said, I still do capital BPC copying in low sec.
But the profitability of that is about to be ruined as well.

Right, just like how goons and RvB didn't blanket how many systems with their PoCo's in a matter of days?
And as for maintenance on these POS's, who said anything about fueling them up?

Some of these griefer corps spend billions on war decs. Now they just spend it on deadzoning systems and wait for the war decs to come to them.

And who is also talking about just BPC's being moved?
If the typical player is forced to move his manufacturing 10 jumps out from a trade hub, he is incurring a huge opportunity cost in time, PLUS a massive risk moving stuff that extra distance.

This is just another attack on the casual high sec player.

I am so glad I shut down my indy accounts a couple years ago.
That being said, I still do capital BPC copying in low sec.
But the profitability of that is about to be ruined as well.

Right, just like how goons and RvB didn't blanket how many systems with their PoCo's in a matter of days?
And as for maintenance on these POS's, who said anything about fueling them up?

Some of these griefer corps spend billions on war decs. Now they just spend it on deadzoning systems and wait for the war decs to come to them.

And who is also talking about just BPC's being moved?
If the typical player is forced to move his manufacturing 10 jumps out from a trade hub, he is incurring a huge opportunity cost in time, PLUS a massive risk moving stuff that extra distance.

This is just another attack on the casual high sec player.

I am so glad I shut down my indy accounts a couple years ago.
That being said, I still do capital BPC copying in low sec.
But the profitability of that is about to be ruined as well.

Right, just like how goons and RvB didn't blanket how many systems with their PoCo's in a matter of days?
And as for maintenance on these POS's, who said anything about fueling them up?

Some of these griefer corps spend billions on war decs. Now they just spend it on deadzoning systems and wait for the war decs to come to them.

Right, just like how goons and RvB didn't blanket how many systems with their PoCo's in a matter of days?
And as for maintenance on these POS's, who said anything about fueling them up?

Some of these griefer corps spend billions on war decs. Now they just spend it on deadzoning systems and wait for the war decs to come to them.

This is just another attack on the casual high sec player.