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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 56 post(s) |

GeeBee
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
46
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:38:00 -
[271] - Quote
"Allow Starbases to be anchored anywhere in high-security space and without standing requirements (minus some protected solar systems, like Jita or new player starting systems of course). Remove the ability for players to use stations to safely store their blueprints without putting them at risk in Starbase structures. Players will still be able to start their jobs remotely (via the use of Supply Chain Management and Scientific Networking skills), but will now have to move their blueprints directly into the starbase structures that require it, like other materials. Improve Mobile Laboratories and Assembly Arrays to compensate for such risk GÇô weGÇÖll give you final numbers as soon as we have them. Reduce copy time on all blueprints to be less time consuming than manufacturing something out of it. This gives the option to use blueprint copies to build items at Starbases without risking the original."
Please remove / increase the 5 max runs per blueprint copy stat on capital component blueprints, building hundreds of these from copies will be insane. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
574

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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:39:00 -
[272] - Quote
Knug LiDi wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:This may be in the cost scaling blog, but will the 0-14% cost increase be reflected in the UI in some way, or will we have to learn this from our spreadsheets? The new UI will show you the accurate price before you actually install the job. That's nice - BUT - I want to know this cost BEFORE I transport materials to a particular station. I.e. the cost amount need to be reflected in the information about that station. And, of course, it is dynamic. This is necessary. Trial and error trying to find cheap manufacturing while carrying materials is stupid. If the rate is dynamic, it needs to be on the equivalent of a market, so players have the intel to decide how far/how much. Doing this while carrying good is idiotic. Flying to 50 stations to determine a value that may change before I get back is wrong. Let me view the local 'market' for manufacturing just like a can examine the market for ore. Then I will make market decisions
You will be able to request a quote from a station before a) going there b) moving materials and even c) purchasing the blueprint. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
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Boltorano
Devious Chemicals
72
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:39:00 -
[273] - Quote
JITAALT808 wrote:I appreciate that you've taken advantage of emergent gameplay and found yourself a niche way to make ISK. That said, sometimes changes should be made for the greater good of all. It doesn't have to be a zero sum solution. Those standings were hard to get. Especially for those of us who worked to get multiple faction standings up (riding the seesaw ain't no fun). That work should count for something and there should be rewards for having done it. The most common refrain I'm seeing so far is, "well you got to use it in the past." To which I can only reply, "let's see if you say that after capitals are removed from the game and no one gets the skillpoints back. I mean, you got to use it in the past, right?"
Those standings should be worth something and they should affect something. If they don't, then the concept needs to be entirely removed from the game, and the people who put the work in should get something for it. You can bet you sweet ass that station owners are not going to get screwed over with the changes to slot mechanics (Devs have already said that another dev blog will address those changes). Why should mission runners get screwed?
CCP can come up with other ways to make standings useful to have, I just wouldn't expect answers to that in the feedback thread for an industry dev blog. |

gifter Penken
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:39:00 -
[274] - Quote
Querns wrote:Honestly, any situation in which the potential for theft increases is a good thing for eve. Trust being a weak link is one of the things that makes Eve great, and makes it actually stand out from other games in the same market.
Assuming people are stupid, which they are not.
Make the risk of theft higher, We'll just create alt corps to own the BPOs, make BPCs, and make the BPCs available to the larger corp.
More hassle, but no more risk.
You can not make us play STUPID! You an only alter how we avoid risk. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
574

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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:39:00 -
[275] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Canenald wrote:Sounds to me like manufacturing and research is about to be dumbed down. Yeah, just like the creation of a GUI dumbed down computer use.  Hell, now EVERONE will be able to do it... sheesh. We talk a lot about good and bad complexity within the team. A fair portion of the industry changes are pretty clear examples of removing bad complexity, while still keeping the interesting problems for players to solve. Some of the changes are also centered around cleaning up years of legacy code, freeing us up to better iterate on the feature and do more sexy looking UI  Success in industry should be about knowing what to build, how, where, when, sourced from where and sold at the right place and at the right time. Edit: and for the right price. It should never be about to be able to stand or navigate a stupid UI.
This. CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20765
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:39:00 -
[276] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:protip research poshavers: it is expected and anticipated your expensive bpos will be moved to station slots, you should stop appearing flabbergasted that you will have to move them Also, read the following line in the devblog again:
GÇó Reduce copy time on all blueprints to be less time consuming than manufacturing something out of it. This gives the option to use blueprint copies to build items at Starbases without risking the original.
Moving the BPO around will be no more needed than it currently is. The big change is rather than you will need to expend one character's research capacity on creating copies to build from. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
352
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:40:00 -
[277] - Quote
I've only had my first read of this and without the rest of the unpublished details and time to digest it all I can't really say much other than...
Impressive. |

Elem Ental
Bedouin Clan Alpha
1
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:40:00 -
[278] - Quote
That screenshot....I am smitten by its beauty <3 I seem to have forgotten, AH YES! Summer looks to be an exciting time indeed! Looking forward to it...Hey! Where the flop did my pants go!? |

Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
290
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:40:00 -
[279] - Quote
Entity wrote:Weaselior wrote:Entity wrote:So you're saying 8 years of operating a hisec POS with 2.5 trillion ISK worth (that's 2500 billion) of BPOs, you're suddenly expecting me to put said 2.5 trillion ISK into a paper space container and not locked down in my hangar?
I like the changes but that part is just flabbergastingly stupid the real issue here is your apparent belief you should be entitled to get the most advantages possible from your 2.5 trillion in bpos absolutely risk free and how long that was tolerated eight years was 7.9 too long Risk free? What? Is your brain turned off or something? - The pos alone is worth 8 billion+ (all faction stuff) - I stand to lose a month worth of product to the tune of 20 billion if someone decides to blow it up. I'm fine with -that- risk, but having to literally put ALL my eggs in that one easy to pop basket is completely unacceptable. You are only turning over 20b a month on 2.5t isk? This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |

asteroidjas
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
34
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:41:00 -
[280] - Quote
And the station's Office Rent costs at the limited number of research stations is going to skyrocket exponentially. It means all those who have offices in systems with no existing research stations will have to move their office and all their stuff to another system entirely.
Also, this will be a nightmare to be forced to build from blueprints that are in POS's, unless they only have to be in the shield and can be used by any array. How is this going to be addressed?
With all the hassle, it might not even be worth many industrialists to continue to have POS's in HS, since they will have to now shuttle all the materials and blueprints to/from each lab/array if they want to do something different with it.
Slightly good news for some of us who like to bash towers of afk-research-alts, but then, why would any of the AFK research alts even need a tower after this?
edit--
Also, that whole 'one window to rule them all' theme didn't work so well last time you tried it....you sure its a good idea to try it again via "Unified Industry" screen? |
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Imiarr Timshae
Funny Men In Funny Hats
181
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:41:00 -
[281] - Quote
Weaselior wrote: seriously is there a single time that anyone has ever used sandbox in a post in one of these threads where their post didn't amount to whining that anything could possibly change
Hey, I don't mind. I run a POS standing business - just got into it - but I'm not fussed. All I started out asking somewhere in this mess was "I wonder what their reasoning is." As per usual I know people who are quitting over the reprocessing change if nothing else. I'm sure my friend who runs a R&D business will consider leaving since it is his primary income and now it's not a thing anymore. I'm not going anywhere 
TSCA - Free 3rd Party & Collateral Holding Service - POS Deployment Corp Sale/Boosting |

gifter Penken
State War Academy Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:44:00 -
[282] - Quote
Imiarr Timshae wrote:Tippia wrote: Well, for one, salvagers don't care about loot reprocessing GÇö they care about salvage.
Alright then "looters/salvagers" I thought that was clear. Looting and salvaging level 4's for example about 80% of the ISK comes from loot. A 30-40% drop in value is significant.
Agreed. Salvage prices have already taken a HUGE nose dive since the creation of noctis and salvage drones. Trit bars down from 130k to 16K. Armor plates down from 300K to 150K. Even tripps have taken a huge hit, though I don't have the exact drop in my head.
I did some playing around with ninja salvaging. Not worth it anymore, unless you are stealing loot on occasion. The loot in one can (like a large weapon and armor mods) is worth more than all the salvage for the entier mission. It should be renamed from ninja-salvage to ninja-looting, as that is the only real money. |

Entity
X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence
646
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:44:00 -
[283] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Weaselior wrote:protip research poshavers: it is expected and anticipated your expensive bpos will be moved to station slots, you should stop appearing flabbergasted that you will have to move them Also, read the following line in the devblog again: GÇó Reduce copy time on all blueprints to be less time consuming than manufacturing something out of it. This gives the option to use blueprint copies to build items at Starbases without risking the original. Moving the BPO around will be no more needed than it currently is. The big change is rather than you will need to expend one character's research capacity on creating copies to build from.
With the volume I put out, having to make copies is not acceptable either. It would be an unnecessary clickfest to make that many copies. The number of jobs I would have to put in per session would jump from 10 to 200. and then 200 again to build the stuff. GòªGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGòæGûæGûæGûæGòöGòùGûæGòæGûæGòæGûæGòöGòùGûæGòªGòæGûæGòöGòùGòöGòªGòùGòöGòù GòæGûæGòöGòùGòöGòùGòöGòúGûæGòöGòùGòáGûæGûæGòáGûæGòáGòùGòáGò¥GûæGòæGòáGûæGòáGò¥GòæGòæGòæGòÜGòù Gò¬GòÉGòÜGò¥GòæGûæGòÜGò¥GûæGòÜGò¥GòæGûæGûæGòÜGò¥GòæGòæGòÜGò¥GûæGò¬GòÜGò¥GòÜGò¥GòæGûæGòæGòÜGò¥ Got Item? |

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
382
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:44:00 -
[284] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Imiarr Timshae wrote:Boltorano wrote: That lost income to mission runners will most likely result in more income for miners, which is something I'm completely fine with. "Mining with guns." should never have been a thing, and CCP has slowly been correcting that error.
Yeah. Seems reasonable to me. Create a "Sandbox", let people create their own professions and then remove them. Sure it's corrective. But "sandbox" it is not. sandbox means you can never change anything ever, said nobody with an ounce of sense ever seriously is there a single time that anyone has ever used sandbox in a post in one of these threads where their post didn't amount to whining that anything could possibly change
I think what people complain about is that CCP stated several times that "no gameplay is removed", yet they remove gameplay. That has nothing to do with change happening or not. It just shows that CCP doesn't think things through. |

Adellle Nadair
Nuclear Midnight Initiative Associates
28
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:44:00 -
[285] - Quote
Quote:On the more critical side, I agree with some of the above posters that having to constantly move your blueprints around will be thoroughly annoying for large-scale producers GÇö it's already annoying enough with just having to collect and use BPCs from all your copying labs. This ties into the issue of not being able to share I/O between arrays, so to mass-produce certain goods, you constantly have to flit about carrying the correct BP for the myriad of arrays you want to populate. You generally already have to set up a given POS for a specific task, but this just makes it a lot worse.
Agreed.
Sadly, I'm coming to understand that these devs don't understand industry. Their knowledge of pvp and Eve in general through that viewpoint has gotten better over the past several years. But they don't understand the complexities, risks and enjoyment of industry.
CCP, hire industrialists to develop and create quality changes for the indy side of eve just as you have hired PvPers to handle the combat side. |
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CCP Arrow
C C P C C P Alliance
501

|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:45:00 -
[286] - Quote
We will be publishing a dedicated blog specifically for the UI of the Industry window where we go into more details about what the final player experience will be. Stay tuned! CCP Arrow-á-á|-á Game Design Director -á|-á-áEVE Online -á|-á-á@CCP_Arrow |
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Dramaticus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
493
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:45:00 -
[287] - Quote
He's making a list, checkin' it twice, gonna find out, who's a shitlord or not. Miniluv is coming to town. The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal
The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20766
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:45:00 -
[288] - Quote
Imiarr Timshae wrote:I'm sure my friend who runs a R&D business will consider leaving since it is his primary income and now it's not a thing anymore. I'm not going anywhere  But his primary income source is still a thing.
So far, contrary to all the doomsaying, the only profession that gets a slight kick in the nuts is corp-with-POS-standings creators. vOv
Entity wrote:With the volume I put out, having to make copies is not acceptable either. It would be an unnecessary clickfest to make that many copies. The number of jobs I would have to put in per session would jump from 10 to 200. and then 200 again to build the stuff. That will depend on the new UI a lot, though. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6902
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:45:00 -
[289] - Quote
Entity wrote: Risk free? What? Is your brain turned off or something?
- The pos alone is worth 8 billion+ (all faction stuff) - I stand to lose a month worth of product to the tune of 20 billion if someone decides to blow it up.
I'm fine with -that- risk, but having to literally put ALL my eggs in that one easy to pop basket is completely unacceptable.
right which is why you will have to move to a station, increasing your cost and lowering your reward in exchange for the perfect safety you apparently can't do without Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |

Imiarr Timshae
Funny Men In Funny Hats
181
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:46:00 -
[290] - Quote
[quote=Rivr Luzade I think what people complain about is that CCP stated several times that "no gameplay is removed", yet they remove gameplay. That has nothing to do with change happening or not. It just shows that CCP doesn't think things through.[/quote]
Pretty much.
"Reprocessing loot makes too many minerals."
Who introduced the mobile tractor, enabling mission runners to passively loot things?
Classic. TSCA - Free 3rd Party & Collateral Holding Service - POS Deployment Corp Sale/Boosting |
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Kadl
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
145
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:46:00 -
[291] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Kadl wrote:No. It just looks like an impediment to newer industrialists while older industrialists with more accounts get a pass. Designing a feature whose main focus is to hinder newer players seems foolish. The problem I see is related to the War Dec, corporation, and POS systems. All of those need real iterations to make them functional. So, yes you should be able to claim a POS or POCO location using a War Dec. Making high sec industry more convoluted does not seem like the proper solution. your proposal that we ought not improve things until there is a complete fix is dumb and wrong by effectively charging 1/3rd a plex for a (weak) wardec immunity, and charging 2 1/3rds plex per month for complete wardec immunity, we significantly penalize the cowardly through an easy-to-implement system that dramatically improves wardecs without requiring massive change
You are making a strawman argument by pretending I want a "complete fix." I simply identified the systems where the problem actually exists and noted their sad state.
I can propose a simple alternative fix. Make it so that anyone who places a POCO or POS in a location vacated by a waring party would immediately become subject to the war. You cannot sneak a "neutral" third party in to reclaim a location since the war could be directed at control of that space location. Note now we are using war decs to control space in high sec. |

Beaver Retriever
Reality Sequence
207
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:46:00 -
[292] - Quote
Death Ryder wrote:my question to CCP Ytterbium is this....
ARE YOU A FREAKING IDIOT...
your little improvements will turn high sec into a war zone and bring production across eve to a standstill in no time what so ever as the greifer CCP so fondly coddle up to begin destroying pos's left right and center in a damn orgy of wankerness... hahahahahahahaha
ok bro
anyway thanks for confirming this is a good change. |

Victor Dathar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
295
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:48:00 -
[293] - Quote
Ok * click * guys, let me just fin * click * ish putting this * click * jobs in then I will com * click * ment. ^^^ lol that post is so bad you should get back 2 GBS m8 o7 |

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5576
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:49:00 -
[294] - Quote
Enteron Anabente wrote:Enteron Anabente wrote:I would encourage you to reconsider the copy times change on T2 BPOs. Making copy times shorter than build times on those BPOs is de facto making them even better money printers than (some of them, at least) already are--if a T2 BPO owner used to be able to manufacture 10 items per day, now he will be able to manufacture 12 per day at essentially the same unit cost (yes, I just made those numbers up). This pushes small-scale T2 producers who rely on invention out of business, since the supply from the cheaper T2 BPOs will be increasing.
TL;DR: making copying times shorter than production times for T2 BPOs will concentrate more wealth in the hands of already-wealthy people and hurt small-scale industrialists. Please don't do it. Can I at least get acknowledgement that a dev saw this, please? I think you VASTLY over rate the wealth generated from a T2 BPO. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6902
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:52:00 -
[295] - Quote
Kadl wrote: I can propose a simple alternative fix. Make it so that anyone who places a POCO or POS in a location vacated by a waring party would immediately become subject to the war. You cannot sneak a "neutral" third party in to reclaim a location since the war could be directed at control of that space location. Note now we are using war decs to control space in high sec.
that is not simple whatsoever and would certainly require massively reworking a lot of code
it is a more elegant fix yes but it is much less likely to be implemented Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division. |

Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
626
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:52:00 -
[296] - Quote
Death Ryder wrote:your little improvements will turn high sec into a war zone and bring production across eve to a standstill in no time what so ever as the greifer CCP so fondly coddle up to begin destroying pos's left right and center in a damn orgy of wankerness...
I cannot think of anything that will invigorate the hisec player-base more than an orgy of wankerness.
Coming soon... |

Sturmwolke
543
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:54:00 -
[297] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:As such, all materials currently listed as Extra Materials will become regular materials instead
What's the scope for the removal of Extra Materials? All T1, T2 blueprints? If this affects T2 BPO, you do realize that this gives the edge back to the BPO holders vs inventions in terms of materials savings.
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Remove the ability for players to use stations to safely store their blueprints without putting them at risk in Starbase structures. Players will still be able to start their jobs remotely (via the use of Supply Chain Management and Scientific Networking skills), but will now have to move their blueprints directly into the starbase structures that require it, like other materials.
We are aware of the significance of this change and do not expect very expensive blueprints (Battleship and above) to be risked in such a manner, but we do feel it to be a good trade-off for smaller blueprints.
This is a d_ick move tbh. Focus on the process. It makes research and the copy industry much more tedious as you have to keep moving your BPOs in/out of the station. Scale that to hundreds of different BPOs/BPCs and several POSes, it becomes a nightmare. Instead of improving, you're devolving it into something far worse. This is an inane change, imo.
For capital production, copy process for things like ship packs or components copy will be made difficult for small/medium enterprises that run on small or medium POSes. You are effectively asking them to commit billions into a target. With the wardec mechanics giving less than 24 hrs to react, EVE becomes your second work place. You're changing the scenery from "casual" to logging everyday and checking for wardecks. God forbid if you have a RL situation which prevents you from taking the necessary actions. This move will definitely thin out the semi-casual industrialists. So you're happy kicking out the casual players?
And what exactly do you mean by "do not expect very expensive blueprints (Battleship and above) to be risked in such a manner"? |

Heavy Met4l Queen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
46
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:54:00 -
[298] - Quote
I like this thread. This is a good thread. Who cares about the pawns of war while the kings yet reign |

Enteron Anabente
Provisional Provisions
21
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Posted - 2014.04.15 17:54:00 -
[299] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Enteron Anabente wrote:Enteron Anabente wrote:I would encourage you to reconsider the copy times change on T2 BPOs. Making copy times shorter than build times on those BPOs is de facto making them even better money printers than (some of them, at least) already are--if a T2 BPO owner used to be able to manufacture 10 items per day, now he will be able to manufacture 12 per day at essentially the same unit cost (yes, I just made those numbers up). This pushes small-scale T2 producers who rely on invention out of business, since the supply from the cheaper T2 BPOs will be increasing.
TL;DR: making copying times shorter than production times for T2 BPOs will concentrate more wealth in the hands of already-wealthy people and hurt small-scale industrialists. Please don't do it. Can I at least get acknowledgement that a dev saw this, please? I think you VASTLY over rate the wealth generated from a T2 BPO.
I've done the calculations myself and decided not to buy any T2 BPOs anytime soon, so I'm well aware what the income from owning one is. I'm still opposed to making them more profitable and pushing out people doing invention. |

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3845
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:56:00 -
[300] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Entity wrote: Risk free? What? Is your brain turned off or something?
- The pos alone is worth 8 billion+ (all faction stuff) - I stand to lose a month worth of product to the tune of 20 billion if someone decides to blow it up.
I'm fine with -that- risk, but having to literally put ALL my eggs in that one easy to pop basket is completely unacceptable.
right which is why you will have to move to a station, increasing your cost and lowering your reward in exchange for the perfect safety you apparently can't do without
And if you have 30b in potential loot, it is worth your time to hire a merc corp (or five) to protect your besieged POS.
This is win, win. |
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