No, they still need to be anchored at moons.

No. I haven't claimed either of those. You're confusing production with demand, somehow.

If BPO holders produce more, this does not in any way affect how much inventors can produce. They simply can't. There is no connection or correlation between the two. Moreover, BPO holders produce so little that a marginal increase in their output from the BPOs is not going to affect the price in any significant way. You'd see the same variance from just a handful of inventors deciding to pick a different product this particular month.

I expect that the more labs you have, the lower your congestion fees will be. If you try to stick 60 jobs into an array that was balanced around holding 6, the mechanics will do nasty things to your profitability.

No, they still need to be anchored at moons.

Having just caught up I'd like to point out that the idea of congestion charges for my laboratories on my POS which I pay the fuel for is fuxking idiotic. Exactly to whom am I paying these fees - me? It's my POS.

Having just caught up I'd like to point out that the idea of congestion charges for my laboratories on my POS which I pay the fuel for is fuxking idiotic. Exactly to whom am I paying these fees - me? It's my POS.

Think Long range sentry drones from 2 moderate groups of bonus-ed battleships. Large shield buffers and maybe a few logistics to top it off and go watch a movie. POS defenses will never on their own attack the drones, so it is just a matter of time before an attacker wins. Such a fleet would even be able to defend itself against a few active defenders quite well due to the range the groups can cover each other!

Its not wasted, it let you have a highsec pos when they required standings...

What benefits you more?

GÇó Having, say, 30 slots per tower so you constantly have to keep 3 of them up just because there are occasional periods where you need 90 slots in total, orGǪ
GÇó Having, say 1 tower that you can keep running constantly, where there is no maximum number of slots and where you can squeeze in all 90 jobs at once when you need to for a slight fee, but where your regular 30 jobs won't really cost anything?

Having just caught up I'd like to point out that the idea of congestion charges for my laboratories on my POS which I pay the fuel for is fuxking idiotic. Exactly to whom am I paying these fees - me? It's my POS.

Now it appears you are just being contrary.

The issue is obviously not how much can be produced, but rather how much will be produced, and sold.

The change is NOT going to have the intended consequenc (BPOs getting destroyed/captured in POS bash). It will just be a major pain in the rear to supply the BPCs that will be used for the actual construction.

This is the Bad Complexity that the dev blog mentions they want to get rid of. Instead, they create a basket load of it..

So you think you shouldn't have to pay someone for doing industry in orbit above someone else's planet... in someone else's space?

Whomever told you that a hardened high sec POS is bulletproof was lying. Even if it fits some turrets and lots of EW, undefended it is a sitting duck, going down in a few hours.

Think Long range sentry drones from 2 moderate groups of bonus-ed battleships. Large shield buffers and maybe a few logistics to top it off and go watch a movie. POS defenses will never on their own attack the drones, so it is just a matter of time before an attacker wins. Such a fleet would even be able to defend itself against a few active defenders quite well due to the range the groups can cover each other!

So basically anyone with a handful of skill points can now set up a pos in HS. i can see one million of 1 member corps having poses soon.
Alt age !

The same people you no longer need standings to? Are you kidding me?

The same people you no longer need standings to? Are you kidding me?

WeeellGǪ look at it this way: you no longer have to prove your loyalty to the empire GÇö cash will do just as fine.

Why though? The entire reason for the POS restriction in high sec to be lifted is because they are going to be much less needed as research platforms. So if anything, I think a lot of people will be taking down their POS because 2 month long waiting lines in stations are going to be a thing of the past.

Now the challenge of effeciency is no longer to have a POS, but to find the most cost efficient station to do research at. Are you going to take that expensive station 1 jump away, or are you going to move your operation to that cheap station 16 jumps away and have a bigger profit margin?

No, I'm just not accepting your notion that the production capability of BPO holders somehow affects the production capability of inventors, seeing as how they are not in any way related. I'm also not buying the notion that the inventors' prices will be affected in any major way since the production increase from the BPOs amounts to market noise compared to how much inventors produce.

Maybe so, but that's not what you said. And again, BPOs aren't particularly significant to the supply of anything where invention is profitable. It'll be lost in the noise of inventors changing their item production from one cycle to the next.

This is the worst single idea I have ever seen from a dev. DO NOT DO THIS CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!

We already risk a large amount of isk in just having the labs/datacores/decryptors and all of the copies needed out at a pos. Forcing us to either risk a huge amount more than that, or move the bpos to other much more populated stations that are already overpopulated (that don't have corp offices available or available for anywhere near a reasonable price) and incur a high cost that will greatly reduce production profit or negate it all together, is a horrible change. You as devs do not understand the amount of bpos required to make copies for t2 invention. And you clearly don't understand the organization and the necessity of being able to efficiently access bpos and the time commitment that industry already takes. It is incredibly shortsighted and ignorant of you to assume that it is only a slight amount of isk that we will be risking. We use and need easy access to hundreds of bpos to make the copies we need to be able to do invention. Asking us to risk multiple billions in bpos is insane. And no, I know I don't have to keep all of the bpos I am not using at the pos. However, the addition of moving around the needed bpos from the station to the pos adds an additional step and organizational nightmare to an already complicated system. Because of the nature of industry NOTHING you do with the UI and other new features will change this.

This change will also create an additional hassle organizational nightmare for players who need to find or move bpos around. Industry is already complicated enough without having to deal with moving all of the bpos around. DO NOT take away our ability to organize bpos in one central station corp office so multiple characters can easily have access to them and can quickly and efficiently install jobs. DO NOT make us do more work and take more time to do industry jobs.

Another severely overlooked issue that this creates: This removes the ability of safely sharing bpos by locking them down in corp hanger in a station. BPOs can't be locked down at a pos. This change will limit how and where we can play severely. It forces people who want to play together to use certain systems and certain stations, to pay for spots at those stations and it practically makes setting up a pos a waste of time and effort, because it limits its usefulness. In the culture of eve (griefers/corp thieves/all) this change removes several much needed elements of safety that allow us to enjoy playing and interacting with a larger player base.

If you have decided to do this, as is suggested by other statements in this dev blog, because you haven't worked out how to deal how the slot change affects pos mods, then DO NOT make this change until you come up with a better solution. Because this is NOT the way to make this change happen.

POSes are expensive, take time, effort and a good amount of isk to maintain already. Forcing us to risk a considerable amount more and in doing so increase the amount of busy work that is required for doing industry is not a good change.

I personally have been playing Eve for 5 and a half years. Industry is one part of the game that I greatly enjoy doing. If this change does go through I will have to seriously consider if it is worth it to keep paying for my 4 accounts. Many of my friends who like this element of the game are already talking about leaving because of this. I sincerely hope that you will not go through with this change and that the other forthcoming industry changes are much more intelligently and thoughtfully crafted than this. If not, you will be losing a large group of your paying customers.

Changes in copy time? how much -5% -20% ? new advanced skill reducing copy time ?

I think, perhaps, you have the cart before the horse.

Invention is profitable, where demand exceeds T2 BPO supply.

If you increaseT2 BPO supply by reducing copy time to below current manufacture time, you increase T2 BPO supply, This reduces the number of items where BPO supply is insufficent to meet demand, reducing the items that will be profitable to invent.

The profitability of being a T2 BPO holder comes when the demand exceeds T2 BPO supply. If you are simply battling other T2 BPO holders to meet demand, and you have no competative advantage over those T2 BPO holders, profits will be slim.

When demand exceeds T2 BPO supply, it becomes the invented supply that sets the price. Because a portion of the supply is being provided by invention, and invented items are so much more expensive to produce (because of invention cost and low ME) than T2 BPO, profit is much higher for T2 BPO holders.

So, while it may at first appear that increasing the supply of T2 items that can be produce via T2 BPO would increase profitability of those T2 BPOs... it is not necessarily the case. Some T2 items will still have demand that exceeds supply that can be met by T2 BPOs and those will become more profitable. Other are likely to shift from invention being the price point, to BPO being the price point, and profit on those could decline.

This. I'm not planning to quit but if this change goes through you can bet your ass you will be shutting down most of the REAL industry corporations with REAL members as well as mass producers as the risk and effort will no longer be worth it.

The annoying part about posting with you is that in every other thread I read with you in I say "Tippia is so right."

I've literally been doing that for years.

I have to agree if the profits dive as much as they will with this change, I can see a lot of the long time producers shutting shops as their isk/hour vs invested time will just plummet to a figure not worth their time.