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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 56 post(s) |
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
179
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Posted - 2014.04.20 16:46:00 -
[1471] - Quote
Freelancer117 wrote: A) Could you explain please what the philosophy / lore behind this is when no more faction standing requirements are needed ?
It seems reasonable for all those engineers out there, to see their hard work grinding faction standing to pick the fruits of that. This way it just copies losec, please consider faction standing to be involved when it concerns Starbase Charters requirements for hisec.
B) And the obvious question has to be asked ofc, will the industry changes be tied into CREST ?
B ) was answered by CCP Nullarbor (source: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4474947#post4474947);
"We will at the very least be updating the static export with new blueprint data, and I'll try and get this out to devs before the release."
A) is answered by CSM 8 vice-chairman Ripard Teg ;
"And here's the simple fact of the matter: guys, they do understand this. Hell, they haven't said so -- if they had, it would be NDA -- but I suspect that's the goal of the exercise. CCP Greyscale (source: http://jestertrek.blogspot.nl/2014/04/traitor.html) in particular has for years been the champion of the philosophy that doing some activities in some areas of space should completely suck and you would be dumb to do those activities there. In the past, the goal has been to make living full-time in null-sec directly correlate with higher player income than living in high-sec. I can easily see industry warping off in that direction come summer.
Eve rule no.1: The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
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Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
3044
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 17:20:00 -
[1472] - Quote
Vesago wrote:This is so true, PvP takes zero commitment in regards to high sec war dec's. They are looking for easy targets. You can run a PvP fleet at your leisure, while maintaining an Industrial effort requires time, and ships that arent capable of defending themselves. A high Sec war dec means my Freighters stay parked. But the PvP corp has nothing but benefit from it. For there to be risk vs. rewards for all parties, There should be a mechanic that makes shooting industrials risky in some way. That will of course... never happen. the entire and only advantage gained from declaring a war (as opposed to receiving) is choosing a target, an advantage which is paid for
all other advantage is provided by players' isk, experience and effort. equally for aggressor and defender |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
441
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 17:43:00 -
[1473] - Quote
Freelancer117 wrote:Freelancer117 wrote: A) Could you explain please what the philosophy / lore behind this is when no more faction standing requirements are needed ?
It seems reasonable for all those engineers out there, to see their hard work grinding faction standing to pick the fruits of that. This way it just copies losec, please consider faction standing to be involved when it concerns Starbase Charters requirements for hisec.
B) And the obvious question has to be asked ofc, will the industry changes be tied into CREST ?
B ) was answered by CCP Nullarbor (source: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4474947#post4474947); "We will at the very least be updating the static export with new blueprint data, and I'll try and get this out to devs before the release."A) is answered by CSM 8 vice-chairman Ripard Teg ; "And here's the simple fact of the matter: guys, they do understand this. Hell, they haven't said so -- if they had, it would be NDA -- but I suspect that's the goal of the exercise. CCP Greyscale (source: http://jestertrek.blogspot.nl/2014/04/traitor.html) in particular has for years been the champion of the philosophy that doing some activities in some areas of space should completely suck and you would be dumb to do those activities there. In the past, the goal has been to make living full-time in null-sec directly correlate with higher player income than living in high-sec. I can easily see industry warping off in that direction come summer.
this is a misquote from jester treks blog, grayscale is implied to have this philosophy and is not quoted, nor is that last sentence attributed to him (grayscale) the whole quote there is jesters thoughts on ccps philosophy and not a quote from grayscale at all.
Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
25385
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Posted - 2014.04.20 17:47:00 -
[1474] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:I will probably never own a POS myself but I have to say that removing the standing requirement to anchor a POS in High Security is a very bad idea.
For as long as I've been playing this game, being able to place a POS in High Security is a badge of honor. If a change to the standing requirement is actually needed, (and it's not) then just allow the Corp members modified standing to be used in the Corp standing average. Opening up the rest of High Security to allow POS to be anchored is all fine and dandy but it needs to follow the original standing mechanic for anchoring, ie, same amount of corp standing as the system security level.
What I see happening here is an entire type of player run business being snuffed out of existence. This new change doesn't help the smaller corps and alliances that have worked hard at building up and maintaining Faction standings in order to have a POS in High Sec.
Opening up High Sec systems to anyone with no standing whatsoever to anchor a POS just means more moons for the big power-block Alliances to control.
DMC
Nothing stops me (or power blocs much much larger than me) from seeding every moon within 10j of jita with a large offline tower except my will to live Nobody CARES about you If that were true, then why hasn't it already been done ?
A better question to ask is why do you always go out of your way to troll post ?
Last and most importantly, your opinion is nothing more than typical asshattery anyway.
DMC Faction Standing Repair Plan | California Eve Players | (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions |
Caval Marten
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
5
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Posted - 2014.04.20 18:18:00 -
[1475] - Quote
Not sure if it's been mentioned before but lowsec can be much more dangerous than null. I hope CCP takes this into account when balancing out the benefits of industry in the various security spaces. |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
221
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Posted - 2014.04.20 18:28:00 -
[1476] - Quote
Theo Sotken wrote:Loraine Gess wrote:Theo Sotken wrote:.
I am also concerned that being wardecced is already a pretty cheap afk way of griefing an industry corp and adds no risk to the wardeccer while causing a lot of disruption and expense. I would like a mechanic that introduces a long consequence for the wardeccers rather than the current pitifully low isk payment. lol Learn to shoot back, you being terrible is not a reason to change game mechanics And yet CCP seems to want to make industrialists more vulnerable and put more stuff at risk rather than tell pvpers be better? and as for your advice 'Learn to shoot back' doesn't help the industry corp at all during the wardec period does it!
Having to destroy an online POS isn't risky enough?? Throw some guns on and you can easily outstrip the expected value for 99% of attackers. Your characters can easily drop/swap corps at any time to avoid wardecs, or easily fight back against the "ganker menace", but you choose not to and suffer as a consequence. This is not CCP's problem, it is yours. |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
221
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 18:29:00 -
[1477] - Quote
D'Kelle wrote:Loraine Gess wrote:Theo Sotken wrote:.
I am also concerned that being wardecced is already a pretty cheap afk way of griefing an industry corp and adds no risk to the wardeccer while causing a lot of disruption and expense. I would like a mechanic that introduces a long consequence for the wardeccers rather than the current pitifully low isk payment. lol Learn to shoot back, you being terrible is not a reason to change game mechanics If you can shoot back 24 / 7 / 365 nice; do you have a family, work, eat and have a life? The rest of us have only an hour or so online as RL kicks in for the rest, CCP DO NOT consider when they make their changes, and that is the EFECTIVE game time players have at any one part of the day. More destructiveness is Possible in 2-3 Hrs by 4 - 6 players than can be countered by the same number of Constructive/productive players. That I believe is the imbalance that Theo is trying to put across.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/POS_Warfare#Reinforced_Mode
Wow you get to PICK AND CHOOSE the time your ultimate defense will take place... and the enemy still has to grind through millions of EHP + defenses
Soooo much risk |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
221
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 18:34:00 -
[1478] - Quote
Vesago wrote: This is so true, PvP takes zero commitment in regards to high sec war dec's. They are looking for easy targets. You can run a PvP fleet at your leisure, while maintaining an Industrial effort requires time, and ships that arent capable of defending themselves. A high Sec war dec means my Freighters stay parked. But the PvP corp has nothing but benefit from it. For there to be risk vs. rewards for all parties, There should be a mechanic that makes shooting industrials risky in some way. That will of course... never happen.
It costs >=50m to dec
That is risk
You can leave corp
That is risk
You can fight back
THAT IS RISK
If you bend over and let someone frag you, you can't then go and ***** that they did so - You are literally inviting wardecs. Saying "I will never fight back ever" and I will gladly come to kill you in an ibis, because it is entirely your own fault that you choose to lose in a PVP game. |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
221
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 18:37:00 -
[1479] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Loraine Gess wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:I will probably never own a POS myself but I have to say that removing the standing requirement to anchor a POS in High Security is a very bad idea.
For as long as I've been playing this game, being able to place a POS in High Security is a badge of honor. If a change to the standing requirement is actually needed, (and it's not) then just allow the Corp members modified standing to be used in the Corp standing average. Opening up the rest of High Security to allow POS to be anchored is all fine and dandy but it needs to follow the original standing mechanic for anchoring, ie, same amount of corp standing as the system security level.
What I see happening here is an entire type of player run business being snuffed out of existence. This new change doesn't help the smaller corps and alliances that have worked hard at building up and maintaining Faction standings in order to have a POS in High Sec.
Opening up High Sec systems to anyone with no standing whatsoever to anchor a POS just means more moons for the big power-block Alliances to control.
DMC
Nothing stops me (or power blocs much much larger than me) from seeding every moon within 10j of jita with a large offline tower except my will to live Nobody CARES about you If that were true, then why hasn't it already been done ? A better question to ask is why do you always go out of your way to troll post ? Last and most importantly, your opinion is nothing more than typical asshattery anyway. DMC
See: Will to live
I have better things to do with my time than to go online 600+ towers, though it is entirely feasible to do so
I'd like to ask why you go out of your way to ignore the point entirely, how's that null-sec cartel going, dinsdale?
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
25385
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 19:14:00 -
[1480] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Loraine Gess wrote:Nothing stops me (or power blocs much much larger than me) from seeding every moon within 10j of jita with a large offline tower except my will to live
Nobody CARES about you If that were true, then why hasn't it already been done ? A better question to ask is why do you always go out of your way to troll post ? Last and most importantly, your opinion is nothing more than typical asshattery anyway. DMC See: Will to live I have better things to do with my time than to go online 600+ towers, though it is entirely feasible to do so I'd like to ask why you go out of your way to ignore the point entirely, how's that null-sec cartel going, dinsdale?
Sorry Charley, you're like way out there in left field barking up the wrong tree.
DMC
Faction Standing Repair Plan | California Eve Players | (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions |
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Vesago
Amalgamated Steel
14
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Posted - 2014.04.20 19:23:00 -
[1481] - Quote
Loraine Gess wrote:Vesago wrote: This is so true, PvP takes zero commitment in regards to high sec war dec's. They are looking for easy targets. You can run a PvP fleet at your leisure, while maintaining an Industrial effort requires time, and ships that arent capable of defending themselves. A high Sec war dec means my Freighters stay parked. But the PvP corp has nothing but benefit from it. For there to be risk vs. rewards for all parties, There should be a mechanic that makes shooting industrials risky in some way. That will of course... never happen.
It costs >=50m to dec That is risk You can leave corp That is risk You can fight back THAT IS RISK If you bend over and let someone frag you, you can't then go and ***** that they did so - You are literally inviting wardecs. Saying "I will never fight back ever" and I will gladly come to kill you in an ibis, because it is entirely your own fault that you choose to lose in a PVP game.
It costs you 50 million to wardec me....
It costs me a billion plus a week if i stop mining...
yep its fair.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3484
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 19:38:00 -
[1482] - Quote
Vesago wrote:It costs you 50 million to wardec me....
It costs me a billion plus a week if i stop mining...
yep its fair. Why stop mining? I don't. I just stay aware when mining, and change my tactics a little, like using Retrievers instead of Hulks and Orca. |
Vesago
Amalgamated Steel
14
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Posted - 2014.04.20 20:18:00 -
[1483] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Vesago wrote:It costs you 50 million to wardec me....
It costs me a billion plus a week if i stop mining...
yep its fair. Why stop mining? I don't. I just stay aware when mining, and change my tactics a little, like using Retrievers instead of Hulks and Orca.
We are diverging from the point of the discussion. I will deal with war decs, and probably never put up another high sec POS again. I will fly my procurers because they have a descent tank and the 3 man destroyer gank squad might go after someone in a hulk instead.
The small changes arent the big issue, its when all of it starts adding together. If it continues to become a situation where CCP wants me to be everyones favorite target then maybe ill do what they want me to do...
Ill be like everyone else and go gank people.
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Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
392
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 20:20:00 -
[1484] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Vesago wrote:It costs you 50 million to wardec me....
It costs me a billion plus a week if i stop mining...
yep its fair. Why stop mining? I don't. I just stay aware when mining, and change my tactics a little, like using Retrievers instead of Hulks and Orca. Um, if you are under a wardec, they will pop your Retriever as soon as you undock from the station. No one with a brain does high-sec PVE activity while under a wardec. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3485
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 20:23:00 -
[1485] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Vesago wrote:It costs you 50 million to wardec me....
It costs me a billion plus a week if i stop mining...
yep its fair. Why stop mining? I don't. I just stay aware when mining, and change my tactics a little, like using Retrievers instead of Hulks and Orca. Um, if you are under a wardec, they will pop your Retriever as soon as you undock from the station. No one with a brain does high-sec PVE activity while under a wardec. Why are you still mining in the same system?
Why are you not checking local?
Why are you not scouting?
I'm the one without a brain? |
ChYph3r
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
134
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Posted - 2014.04.20 20:35:00 -
[1486] - Quote
In post https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4478787#post4478787 how can a ISD edit a DEV's post......clearly ISD has too much power!
Want to find all the podcasts around EVE Online visit http://evepodcasts.com @chyph3r-á on Twitter
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Azami Nevinyrall
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1861
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 20:38:00 -
[1487] - Quote
I agree with this...
IB4 Delete for discussing moderation by *Insert ISD here* New player experience, more highsec PvE missions, casual play, balance, counters to AFK cloaking, expanding the NEX store, and Power Projection.
Azami Nevinyrall for CSM9! |
Kethry Avenger
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
113
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Posted - 2014.04.20 21:36:00 -
[1488] - Quote
Back from my weekend in the real world.
Still would like an explanation on why the change to Standings requirement.
_____________________________________________________________________
Had some ideas when thinking about this.
One, I think standing requirements should be added to more mechanics in High-sec space.
POCO use, etc.
Two, I like the idea of opening up 0.9 and 1.0 systems but think they should still be gated with standings.
Three, if one wanted to make standings more meaningful choice I would say you should implement an element of decay into them for Standings with NPC's. Such as the loss of one average level 4 storyline missions worth of standings every week or faster depending on desired balance.
This would further help keep highsec for highsec players as it would help weed out the ability of null-sec one man alt corps from taking the space. Since it could be difficult for them at time to be active with their mains during a war in null-sec and maintain their standing for their alt industry POS in the best highsec location. |
Vigilant
Vigilant's Vigilante's
13
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 23:01:00 -
[1489] - Quote
So after 45 pages of reading and 10 years in Industry I have mixed feelings on this patch.
Standing changes I am happy for, always thought it was a stupid grind
Open Slots everywhere is a major change, but really what it will do is cause office charges to raise more than anything. I guess the only question is: Does the congestion charge have a max? Or does it just keep going?
The rest of the stuff is major "hurry up and wait". Need more DEVBLOGS. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1021
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 23:18:00 -
[1490] - Quote
Caval Marten wrote:Not sure if it's been mentioned before but lowsec can be much more dangerous than null. I hope CCP takes this into account when balancing out the benefits of industry in the various security spaces. This bears repeating. I am guessing that lowsec rates will sit between highsec and nullsec. I am not sure that this is an accurate reflection of risk vs reward.
Unfortunately, there seems to be very little thought given to lowsec by either CCP or the CSM, although this will hopefully change in CSM9. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
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Vigilant
Vigilant's Vigilante's
13
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Posted - 2014.04.20 23:37:00 -
[1491] - Quote
LOWSEC will always be a non used area of EVE compared ti High/Null. RvR is not there for most people that like to keep their stuff in one piece and the others who want to blow up other players (PvP) just join one of the big 3 and they have what they want. Leaves noobs and pirates...and bored Null bears.
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Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
392
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Posted - 2014.04.20 23:41:00 -
[1492] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Sizeof Void wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Vesago wrote:It costs you 50 million to wardec me....
It costs me a billion plus a week if i stop mining...
yep its fair. Why stop mining? I don't. I just stay aware when mining, and change my tactics a little, like using Retrievers instead of Hulks and Orca. Um, if you are under a wardec, they will pop your Retriever as soon as you undock from the station. No one with a brain does high-sec PVE activity while under a wardec. Why are you still mining in the same system? Why are you not checking local? Why are you not scouting? I'm the one without a brain? What difference does it make what system you are mining in? If you move, I can find you easily enough via a locator agent.
How does checking local help you? I can send an alt in to scout, and mark your location. Then, it is a matter of seconds to jump into the system and pop you, before you have a chance to react.
Scouting where? Are you going to multi-box scouts in every surrounding system? To defend your lousy Retriever? lol...
And, yes, you either haven't really been mining during a wardec, or you don't have a brain. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
412
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 00:49:00 -
[1493] - Quote
With all the doom and gloom surrounding mining during a wardec, it makes you wonder how any mining occurs in nullsec, where you are not only effectively under a wardec from everyone at the same time, but also vulnerable to hotdrops. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Urziel99
Unified Research Zone
28
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 01:00:00 -
[1494] - Quote
Querns wrote:With all the doom and gloom surrounding mining during a wardec, it makes you wonder how any mining occurs in nullsec, where you are not only effectively under a wardec from everyone at the same time, but also vulnerable to hotdrops.
Far less of it happens than used to happen. CCP decided to give the ganker free kills when we lost hidden grav sites (Because god forbid the ganker have to employ :effort: to find targets). Then, when they still couldn't kill off nullsec mining they gave them instant align, fast warping, interdiction nullified, tacklers. |
Aeonidis
Boss Hog and Son Industrial Consortium
13
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 01:12:00 -
[1495] - Quote
Urziel99 wrote:Querns wrote:With all the doom and gloom surrounding mining during a wardec, it makes you wonder how any mining occurs in nullsec, where you are not only effectively under a wardec from everyone at the same time, but also vulnerable to hotdrops. Far less of it happens than used to happen. CCP decided to give the ganker free kills when we lost hidden grav sites (Because god forbid the ganker have to employ :effort: to find targets). Then, when they still couldn't kill off nullsec mining they gave them instant align, fast warping, interdiction nullified, tacklers.
who the hell wants to mine null anyway all the rock out there sells for far less than its base price. logi to get it to a decent market is an expensive pita, and I can mine far more than I could ever sell or use of those high end rocks. it was not till I started mining for minerals below isogen in highsec that I was actually able to sell everything I mined in a decent time frame. for a miner null will never have enough reward for the risk. or be viable game play, when afk cloaky can just walk away from their computer and lock you in station/pos for the few hours you may be online every night. |
Vigilant
Vigilant's Vigilante's
14
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 01:28:00 -
[1496] - Quote
Plenty of backwater systems with little to no traffic that could be mined all day and night by a few people. And with local still being completely on in regular space, and 14 layers of alliance defenses (roams, intel, etc.) you can mine your brains out. But, valid point m8, unless you need the minerals to build something, easier to shoot stuff and refine. |
Urziel99
Unified Research Zone
28
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Posted - 2014.04.21 01:31:00 -
[1497] - Quote
Aeonidis wrote:Urziel99 wrote:Querns wrote:With all the doom and gloom surrounding mining during a wardec, it makes you wonder how any mining occurs in nullsec, where you are not only effectively under a wardec from everyone at the same time, but also vulnerable to hotdrops. Far less of it happens than used to happen. CCP decided to give the ganker free kills when we lost hidden grav sites (Because god forbid the ganker have to employ :effort: to find targets). Then, when they still couldn't kill off nullsec mining they gave them instant align, fast warping, interdiction nullified, tacklers. who the hell wants to mine null anyway all the rock out there sells for far less than its base price. logi to get it to a decent market is an expensive pita, and I can mine far more than I could ever sell or use of those high end rocks. it was not till I started mining for minerals below isogen in highsec that I was actually able to sell everything I mined in a decent time frame. for a miner null will never have enough reward for the risk. or be viable game play, when afk cloaky can just walk away from their computer and lock you in station/pos for the few hours you may be online every night.
It's slower to move large amounts of Zydrine and Megacyte, and Morphite can take great deal of time to move given it's limited use, but the trick is to not just mine ABCDM. Mining the other materials gives the few who do industry in nullsec the base minerals they need, and makes the sites respawn faster. Rorqual compression also makes the bulk of ores a non-issue as well as giving some pretty awesome command bonuses and being a cheap transport platform. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1021
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 01:36:00 -
[1498] - Quote
Vigilant wrote:LOWSEC will always be a non used area of EVE compared ti High/Null. RvR is not there for most people that like to keep their stuff in one piece and the others who want to blow up other players (PvP) just join one of the big 3 and they have what they want. Leaves noobs and pirates...and bored Null bears.
And highsec will ALWAYS have the best industry? And null will ALWAYS have really bad sov mechanics?
Risk vs reward should play out properly in lowsec as well. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Vigilant
Vigilant's Vigilante's
14
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 01:40:00 -
[1499] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Vigilant wrote:LOWSEC will always be a non used area of EVE compared ti High/Null. RvR is not there for most people that like to keep their stuff in one piece and the others who want to blow up other players (PvP) just join one of the big 3 and they have what they want. Leaves noobs and pirates...and bored Null bears.
And highsec will ALWAYS have the best industry? And null will ALWAYS have really bad sov mechanics? Risk vs reward should play out properly in lowsec as well.
I agree 100 percent, but 10 years of history does not give me much hope... |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
412
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 01:51:00 -
[1500] - Quote
Vigilant wrote:Plenty of backwater systems with little to no traffic that could be mined all day and night by a few people. And with local still being completely on in regular space, and 14 layers of alliance defenses (roams, intel, etc.) you can mine your brains out. But, valid point m8, unless you need the minerals to build something, easier to shoot stuff and refine. Ah, yes, thank you.
What I've never understood about this whole "nullsec is safe" thing is that, sure, the tools exist to mitigate risk in nullsec. However, they're not specific to nullsec -- anyone in any area of space (with a non-delayed local) can use the same tools. Why do highsec dwellers refuse to use the same tools that nullsec has? This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
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