Basically, you are damaging the currently active game mechanic in order to support a legacy one that does not exist any more.

I will wait for further blogs but I'm actually with DInsdale on this one [quietly stabs himself in eye].

Unless you have some serious firepower then queuing up a job that lasts more than 24 hours (the time it takes a war dec to come into effect) presents a bit of a risk in low sec. Even if you get the notification of the war dec in time to take your POS down you will have to abandon the job to get your BPO out with a consequential loss of minerals as a result.

Yet.. you still have time to post on forums all day long.

T2 BPOs do not have the -4/-4 level of T2 BPCs and you know that I was referring to it.
T2 BPOs are copied with 100% success rate, unlike inventing a T2 BPC to get a T2 copy.
T2 BPOs are not available on the NPC market, with a fixed price that serves as a ISK sink, available in unlimited quantities and at all times like T1 BPOs are.

Looks very similar to me.

The biggest difference is that they're a horrible investment, unlike most other BPOs.

T2 BPOs do not have the -4/-4 level of T2 BPCs and you know that I was referring to it.
T2 BPOs are copied with 100% success rate, unlike inventing a T2 BPC to get a T2 copy.
T2 BPOs are not available on the NPC market, with a fixed price that serves as a ISK sink, available in unlimited quantities and at all times like T1 BPOs are.

Then keep using station services.

Right now, POS-based manufacturing is all kinds of stupid unless the POS (or, more accurately, some special assembly array) is required in the process; after the patch, it actually has a purpose (and some of the stupidity might even be removed depending on how some of the future devblogs turn out). So that is no reason to suddenly abandon everything POS related that you planned on doing before the changes were announced. If you thought it worth-while doing before, it'll be worth-while doing afterwards as well.

Just further proof that staying competitive is not a second job.

Tippa the issue was never about market share, the volume of the market doesn't matter to a single seller. What matters to the single seller is MARGIN.

T2 BPO have margin advantages that no one else has in game. IF seller A can produce item 1 for 250k and seller B can produce 1 item for 150k he can sell out of his entire stock below the production cost of Seller A and STILL be profitable. That's the problem here.

So the real question that everyone is wondering, how many BPO's do you have?

you're all idiots if you think that the pos congestion fees are going to be anything but zero until you do something like try to stuff an alliance's worth of battleship production into a small pos with a single assembly array

wait to start wigging the **** out until you see the cost devblog

Also is the main reason why we keep throwing money at SC at an insane rate, the beauty of industry and science in EVE is already vanished.. EVE now is more about being the biggest badass and villan including the excesive ussage of mayo. Not to mention the fact that for being competitive you have to take EVE as a secondary job, not a game.

I have a suggestion that would let CCP reward those who (like me too) grinded standings or have standings-raise professions and so on:

Have the new POS slots fees depend (in a minor way) also from standings.

So, everyone can put up a POS but those with standings get a discount.


Voil+á, two birds with one stone!

It's only a problem if it leaves Seller A without customers. The thing about the BPO portion of production is that it doesn't have the volume to do so, so A still sells his goods at a useful margin. Seller B would also be pretty stupid to undercut A that much since that just means he earns far less than he otherwise could..

So the real question that everyone is wondering, how many BPO's do you have?

and the changes in T2 BPO copying speed won't affect that margin. You're still competing against other inventors since invention is still what will set the market price.

It's only a problem if it leaves Seller A without customers. The thing about the BPO portion of production is that it doesn't have the volume to do so, so A still sells his goods at a useful margin. Seller B would also be pretty stupid to undercut A that much since that just means he earns far less than he otherwise could.

This happens alot more often in trade hubs outside of Jita, someone who want to put more product up just undercuts the crazy out of the inventors to clear his stock and put up more. He then puts his next batch at a once again competitive price. If everyone could only invent this would be fine because he would now be losing isk, but he doesn't.

Wait so you're arguing for the side of keeping T2 BPO's in just for the sake of arguing?

Hint: Star Citizen is a scam. They are walking away with your money.

GǪand the changes in T2 BPO copying speed won't affect that margin. You're still competing against other inventors since invention is still what will set the market price.


It's only a problem if it leaves Seller A without customers. The thing about the BPO portion of production is that it doesn't have the volume to do so, so A still sells his goods at a useful margin. Seller B would also be pretty stupid to undercut A that much since that just means he earns far less than he otherwise could.

Zero, because they're a waste of money and offer me no useful advantage over the invention I do.

This is a good death. There's no
shame in this, in a man's death. A
man who's done fine works. We're
making a better world. All of them,
better worlds.

why is this stupid t2 bpo discussion here

The point is that T2 BPOs confer a significant advantage in terms of margin when produced off them.

The question then becomes is why this mechanic still exists given the state of the market today and the fact that t2 BPO's are no longer being given out.

I'm not suggesting that Seller B is going to immediately sell his goods 10-20% bellow seller A. The point is that seller B will ALWAYS be able to undercut Seller A by a significant margin and will always "win" the .01 isk price wars.

On the flip side of the coin, I have 2 T2 BPO's, the Pilgrim and the Guardian.

At best, I can produce one ship a day (roughly) from each of these BPO's.

can we turn off the new interface and use the old one that we all know and love/hate?

We have insufficient details on the actual changes for any reasonable discussion.

So an unreasonable discussion broke out instead.

why is this stupid t2 bpo discussion here

these changes are entirely irrelevant unless the copy time for a t2 bpo is significantly lower than the current build time; even if it is slightly faster unless there's queueing coming in another devblog the slightly increased potential supply will be counteracted by the increased need to install new jobs, leaving the thing idle

why is this stupid t2 bpo discussion here

these changes are entirely irrelevant unless the copy time for a t2 bpo is significantly lower than the current build time; even if it is slightly faster unless there's queueing coming in another devblog the slightly increased potential supply will be counteracted by the increased need to install new jobs, leaving the thing idle

This, If they would of just given us numbers we would of been able to not just talk speculation

Exactly for that - a feedback to CCP to not significantly lower the copy time below the current build time


Exactly why they didn't give the numbers first - speculations in a feedback thread can reveal potential downsides and provide pretty good feedback.

Hysterical over reactions in this case is not CCP's fault.

Nonsense, it's a CCP DEV GOON PL CIA HYRDA RELOADED COMMUNIST consipiracy and we should all run for the hills with utmost urgency.

Nonsense, it's a CCP DEV GOON PL CIA HYRDA RELOADED COMMUNIST consipiracy and we should all run for the hills with utmost urgency.