If you're contributing, shouldn't you give it to them beforehand?

Only idiots on Kickstarter and those who get pre-orders give their money before the product is released.

I

1. Are there other players with ballz to commit to WiS development?
2. CCP do you have the ballz to make WiS?

I pledge -ú500 as personal contribution to WiS which CCP can take automatically from my account when they deliver WiS.

1. Are there other players with ballz to commit to WiS development?
2. CCP do you have the ballz to make WiS?

I am watching this with interest...

You dont seem to understand. CCP does not have the coding skills to pull off WIS. That is what it comes down to.
Just look at how lousy our toons look walking around in CQ.

If they do it, it will suck.

I suspect that is the other reason why WoD was canned.

I pledge -ú500 as personal contribution to WiS which CCP can take automatically from my account when they deliver WiS.

1. Are there other players with ballz to commit to WiS development?
2. CCP do you have the ballz to make WiS?

I am watching this with interest...

I pledge -ú500 as personal contribution to WiS which CCP can take automatically from my account when they deliver WiS.

1. Are there other players with ballz to commit to WiS development?
2. CCP do you have the ballz to make WiS?

I am watching this with interest...

Only idiots on Kickstarter and those who get pre-orders give their money before the product is released.

I hope you don't want to be taken seriously.


They need the money beforehand,
not afterwards.

If they want to make it, they can recruit people with the right skills from other studios.

You mean people like the ones they just laid off sent to the True Death in Atlanta?

Having a bunch of devs working on "something" without a plan or a clue is a waste of resources. CCP still has no plan or clue how to do this. Maybe you should kickstart funding for some realistic and deliverable ideas first.

WIS must come from a team with a sustainable future. The kickstarter idea, though interesting, would only create a situation like in EVE where a two day old rookie gets a billion ISK. You want WIS to come from a place of good ideas and a team that's able to justify its initial and continued existence.

Of course the problem with WIS is no one is able to answer WHY the feature would be essential to EVE (I know you'd have fun in it but that's not enough of a reason because it doesn't answer what WIS would contribute to the rest of the gameplay in EVE).

Only idiots on Kickstarter and those who get pre-orders give their money before the product is released.

True. What about pvp gambling without wis?

Texas hold'em with ISK while you're gatecamping, or waiting for a fleet to form up.

100% eve spirit. Enable asset gambling for people low on isk.

Would be great.

Let's be serious, they can me DUST and the WoD environment demo did look stunning. WHo says they don;t have skills?

EOH poker has been running for a long time.

And if all you have is assets use one of the pawn services :) You'll have chips in minutes :P

I think that was kinda his point

If they want to make it, they can recruit people with the right skills from other studios.

For the $5000 pledge level youll receive:

All of the benefits of the 500$ pledge level plus:

In game title of Rear Admiral

Rough napkin sketch of a Megathron having coitus with a crinkle cut French fry

1 5lb bag of Dominix models

One slightly moist used towelette salvaged from Hilmar's trash can

Hardcover of the upcoming best selling book "The Successful Voyages of Unsuccessful at Everything" incl bonus hardbound copy of "The Office Diaries"

1 Unsuccessful at Everything's Velator complete with 1 trit and Civilian Electron Blaster and Civilian Mining Laser

1 Unsuccessful at Everything corpse

and a medal of your choice awarded by The Troll Bridge

No t-shirt ?

Tsk, tsk.

You mean people like the ones they just laid off sent to the True Death in Atlanta?

Having a bunch of devs working on "something" without a plan or a clue is a waste of resources. CCP still has no plan or clue how to do this. Maybe you should kickstart funding for some realistic and deliverable ideas first.

uhm star citizen on topic ccp have plenty of money. The have even a pre-build model The are waiting i don`t know for what but it will have a good reason i hope

And no Fedo plushie.. What kind of ruse is this my dear fellow?

As much as I support WIS content in eve I too am beginning to think that CCP lack the organisational skill to pull it off, they have talented devs no doubt, but the ass hattery that has gone on in the last couple of years points to a company that just cant deliver at the managerial level. I sympathise with the OP though, a kickstarter style campaign would end the question of WIS once and for all, as we'd soon see how well supported it is by the existing playerbase.

EDIT: If CCP goes on Kickstarter or a similar site asking for WIS Cash I too will pledge.

Only idiots on Kickstarter and those who get pre-orders give their money before the product is released.

So venture capitalists are idiots

There is a difference between a venture capitalist and a normal person. A venture capitalist wants to see a plan, how you are going to turn the money they give you into money back, they want to see a working product or an idea to get to said working product. They also tend to want a return on that investment, as in a %of your company. Lets say a product that will remain nameless *cough* star citizen *cough* was to use venture capitalist, they would want a set date for something. The makers can't keep going back and asking for more to add to there already promised product until they have a product and evidence it will make money. And in the case of the unnamed game if they fail to deliver the venture capitalist will get there money back by forcing the company to liquade its assets or sell what it has of said product to another company to finish,

On the flip side, using stretch goals, and asking the general population for money is less risky to the game maker. If they fail to deliver then it doesn't hurt anyone but the people who tossed money at it. If its successfully, the game maker reaps all the rewards. Its pretty much a lose for the general public. Sure the game you helped fund is no manking money, and is out and you are enjoying youself, but if you had been a venture capitalist you would be reaping the profits.

That's the difference. You get screwed either way.

Now kick starting is a good idea, you get something for your money. Be it a book, dvd, t-shirt, product whatever. My issue with said unnamed game is once launched no matter how much I forked out, I will reap the same reward as someone who just started the game at launch

If that's the case, could you buy the fleet admiral pack for me?

Sure, I need to see what you are going to do with it and much much money you make off it. Oh and i'll want 80% of any money you make from it. then we will talk ;)

True. What about pvp gambling without wis?

Texas hold'em with ISK while you're gatecamping, or waiting for a fleet to form up.

100% eve spirit. Enable asset gambling for people low on isk.

Would be great.

Only idiots on Kickstarter and those who get pre-orders give their money before the product is released.

I think that was kinda his point

While not as passionate about hating WiS as some others here, I don-¦t think WiS would work just for the sake of showing off like in some other MMORGS.... Eve Online and its players simply do not operate this way.

That means you will need some content beyond some expanded, shared Captains-¦ Quarters, most importantly a way to interact with each other like you currently can outside of the stations. Which means CCP better start thinking about ways how someone who is Walking in Station can kill and be killed (something that the Devs rejected from the beginning, though, iirc). THEN you just might start getting some sympathy for WiS. Perhaps.
Also a way to evict someone forcefully from the station. Just think what that would mean to Jita local. Imagine a million scammers crying out in pain and suddenly fall silent.
Something to almost look forward to....

Why can't wis just be cool little minigames?

Things like:
Player owned casinos
New intense exploration (like slender man)
Maybe some on pi exploration

Wis doesn't need to be call of duty in a pos for sovereignty or even boarding each other ships to be good. The cq ground work is pretty good if you're not looking to turn this into a fps.

For the $5000 pledge level youll receive:

All of the benefits of the 500$ pledge level plus:

In game title of Rear Admiral

Rough napkin sketch of a Megathron having coitus with a crinkle cut French fry

1 5lb bag of Dominix models

One slightly moist used towelette salvaged from Hilmar's trash can

Hardcover of the upcoming best selling book "The Successful Voyages of Unsuccessful at Everything" incl bonus hardbound copy of "The Office Diaries"

1 Unsuccessful at Everything's Velator complete with 1 trit and Civilian Electron Blaster and Civilian Mining Laser

1 Unsuccessful at Everything corpse

and a medal of your choice awarded by The Troll Bridge

I admire the OP's enthusiasm, but would like to remind them that CCP will happily take their money and not deliver on promise.

The difference here is CCP is, you know, an actual games company. The reason your Day-Z's et al need funding ahead of time, is because it's much better for them (and the end user) for them to be able to self-release a title than it is to do so under the purview of a large publisher.

Pledge-rewards and all that gunk are stupid, however.

Now that I think about it, EVE was not my first MMO. For 4 months I played Hold Em online for a couple hours a day, and the goal was to take my $300 and turn it into a larger pot. I had grind it (make safer bets) because I wanted a consistent gain instead of some chance windfall. I soon hit a plateau because it seemed like the rooms I logged into got popular, and many of these players would be logged in simultaneously to different rooms (the telltale nicknames gave it away) and.. *gasp* using spreadsheets to make bets (spreadsheets take a lot of the mystery out of poker).

As a purist (which in retrospect was a very na+»ve view) I wanted to play the game with just my own wits, not spreadsheets. A month went by and I found my earnings per hour wasn't much more than minimum wage.. at which point I quit playing. I guess the only good thing is that I know enough about poker to hustle some poor ******* IRL who might not know what he's doing.
.

My money is real.

This thread is hilarious.

...from the one person that...

The difference between an avatar standing in a room and able to amble about, and an actual working multiplayer environment is about like saying "I found 4 tyres, I pretty much have most of the car, just needs a few mechanical things to move them around".

I don't know much about coding but i was always told from my programmer friends the longest parts of development are the modelling and textures both of which are already done and done beautifully in the captains quarters. Seems to me they have the frame and engine, now they just need to find the 4 tires.

I pledge -ú500 as personal contribution to WiS which CCP can take automatically from my account when they deliver WiS.

1. Are there other players with ballz to commit to WiS development?
2. CCP do you have the ballz to make WiS?

I am watching this with interest...

Just go play the Sim's and leave my spaceship game alone ....

I don't know much about coding but i was always told from my programmer friends the longest parts of development are the modelling and textures both of which are already done and done beautifully in the captains quarters. Seems to me they have the frame and engine, now they just need to find the 4 tires.

It was mentioned by a Dev a long time ago that they could already run multi-avatar environments inhouse.

But CCP does tend to say a lot of things.

Wondering when you'd show up.

Dust is a thing without disrupting your spaceship game.

Valkyrie will be a thing without disrupting your spaceship game.

WiS can too be a thing without disrupting your spaceship game.

WiS can too be a thing without disrupting your spaceship game.

I expected the thread to get locked because it's not the approved WiS ghetto that you're supposed to post this crap in.

How's your spaceship game coming along anyway? Still all broken and ****? Because mine's going well, no serious complaints or issues and I'm ready for some WiS.

Eve is actually in fairly good shape now that they are actually putting effort into it. The ship rebalancing has been fantastic...seeing ships that have been in the game forever actually being used is great.

Sov is kind of borked but Goons are making it work for us and our people in the CSM feel good about the future but there is obviously a lot of work to be done before they could ever go back to wasting time on roleplayer foolishness.

Honestly, Dust, Valk, and EvE shoudl be linked, with WiS being the bridge that links them.

Besides i want walking in stations, because often time is am docked while recruiting or dealing with stupid alliance matters (when mine was not moth balled) ans it would be fun to walk to a bar and drink or something as I'm sweet talking a noob to join me

Honestly, Dust, Valk, and EvE shoudl be linked, with WiS being the bridge that links them.

Besides i want walking in stations, because often time is am docked while recruiting or dealing with stupid alliance matters (when mine was not moth balled) ans it would be fun to walk to a bar and drink or something as I'm sweet talking a noob to join me

Well why not WoD too? Oh yeah... it was really the further development of WiS with it's tech and wound up so broken that they killed it off rather than throwing moar big monies into R&D to figure it out.

If still, years later into EVE + WiS, they would be trying to get WiS to work... or closing EVE like WoD because it had become so broken of a basket case.

Yep, yet another WiS thread, and how they wish it had actually killed off EVE like it did to WoD.

Pro tip: If you don't read the WiS threads, You won't get childishly upset over them.

Upset? You upset? Why would I be upset? You are the one on the whining side of it, that WiS isn't being developed.
I just laid out the facts for you, the facts you continue to ignore, and so you keep generating these dead thread horses.
Way to go, Pro.


Fact: WiS tech == WoD tech
So how's that working out for ya?
Dodged a bullet imo

You sound upset that people are still interested in WiS. You should try ignoring them rather than trying to tell people to stop liking things they like.

Only idiots on Kickstarter and those who get pre-orders give their money before the product is released.

Why not take your own advice, dude? So you cant argue my points so you suggest I go away. Brilliant!

I pledge -ú500 as personal contribution to WiS which CCP can take automatically from my account when they deliver WiS.

I keep seeing people say that WoD was canned because they "couldn't make the graphics engine work."

So there's no reason for me to discuss with you.

1. Are there other players with ballz to commit to WiS development?

Which is logical. They dumped a whole lot of money into R&D, what do you think they spent all that on, pizza delivery?
I've seen the leaked screens of it, I can see what's going on well enough. They continued to develop where WiS left off, and it failed. There is no other option, they didn't just get bored with it, they over estimated the work involved in making this system actually work. They spent millions trying to fix it but in the end just scrapped the project all together.

They won't remove WiS from EVE, they will just maintain it for however long. But certainly, whatever they did to it in WoD, added to it, that work wont be coming here, which is probably what broke the project, and would have broken EVE.

Oh you didn't, that was my point.

I'm not so sure about breaking Eve, but I agree with this. I've seen the tech demos on WoD and stuff, and man it was an interesting concept, as far as the character simulation and stuff. It would've absolutely put a good chunk of the player base between a rock and a hard spot, as far as upgrading their hardware or having to opt out of eve.

You're here to be a nuisance and try to push people around.

Let's be honest: CCP is one trick pony and aren't too good as developer. They've spent $40mil on WoD and didn't deliver anything, after many years of development WiS is just a prototype, Dust is boring shooter, Valkyrie will be as boring as Dust, the only source of interesting content in EVE are players.

I wouldn't support any of CCP's crowdfunding initiatives - it's wasting of money. Thought I'd pay $49.99 for good WiS expansion - after I see it.

They did a lot of work on it, but you can see it was still missing core systems. That's because they spent most of their time just trying to get it to work. They certainly had to add onto the Carbon system, and that is probably where all the R&D money and time went into. Going over and over it again trying to figure out what was wrong, why the engine would buckle under it. Probably plagued with memory leaks and crashes, possible, probable. I mean no idea on specifics, but 1. it had to be built upon, expanded, and 2. something horrible happened in that progress stopped.

I've come to the conclusion from seeing the work to some degree, that this would have been a bad fate for EVE if WiS had continued. Certainly we wouldn't have seen all the nice improvements to the internet spaceship part of the game as has happened in recent years since they stopped WiS. The problem is, once you put something into the game, it's not always possible to roll it back. So fixing WiS could have been a decades work in the making... if it could be fixed that is.

It's not that it can't be done.

I'm more of the idea that WiS was scrapped after the Jita riots and unsubs that basically told CCP to take their microtransaction model and shove it up an exhaust pipe. Although you are correct, WiS is here to stay as is, and it probably wont be taken out, I seriously doubt that expanding upon it would've killed Eve.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not one to play Sims in Space, but I would like to be able to see more of the nice space from within a contained environment. My POS sort of does the trick for me, but alas.

I do think though, that if WiS is prioritized with no other objective in mind other than to "Lol Sims in Space, go stand with your make believe ManFace RocketTits Girlfriend over there", would be very very terrible for the health of the game.

You had no hope. My sister in law and her ex and several friends used to multibox that game and talk on team speak. Basically looking for tables where there would be one other person and all the other players would be one of them or one of there alts. They made a lot of money.

Needless to say people who cheat at poker tend to cheat in real life as well, they are not married anymore :D

Oh, god. I hadn't even thought of this possibility. This completely ruins it for me.

This quote from one of my favorite Ed Norton movies comes to mind: "If you can't spot the sucker in the first half hour at the table, then you are the sucker."

You know.. if gambling was implemented with WIS, the exact same thing would happen!

Edit:


I am hardly ever home and my only computer is a Windows potato. I love that the game's requirements aren't very high. Requiring a more powerful computer would kill EVE for me..

This thread is hilarious.

The problem WiS has now, is that for many of us, it falls into the "fool me twice" catagory. We gave them their chance and they squandered it in the most ludicrous way imaginable.

For many of us, the "18 months" snub was shocking (really, why did they bother having a CSM that year if the answer to every question was "no EvE developement this year"), but we swallowed it down as a cost of this massive, innovative mission CCP was on. And at the end of that 18 months, what we were served up was pathetic and insulting. It was like waiting three hours at a restaurant, and finally being served up a reheated tin of Heinz soup (and being charged a -ú10 surcharge for a spoon). The most embarrassing part of it was CCPs seemingly genuine surprise at our anger. It wasn't like they couldn't have seen it coming - the forum was filled for that 18 months with peoples hopes, expectations, and straight-up requirements for walking in stations. Sure, most peoples expectations were in the sky, but they could have got a general feel for what was an expected baseline, and that was not "single bedroom, with ludicrously overpriced microtransaction shop", and they should have seen the impending pile-up, and either managed expectations, or re-evaluated their priorities. But instead, they plowed on regardless, insulted our intelligence, then insulted us personally in internal memos, and got exactly what they ******* well deserved.

I wanted WiS. I do not want it now. CCP poisoned the well, and lost any good will or forbearance on this project. They had their chance and blew it, and there is absolutely no way I will tolerate another "18 months" on the belief that CCP can get it right this time. I might say I would only support another approach to WiS with a solid plan, and roadmap of what they intend, and in what timeframe. But, you know what, the second I considered that, I had a flashback of a photo of a whiteboard crammed with CCPs roadmap for sov. Was that 2 years ago now, was it longer? Actually, no, I'm not sure I would trust another "roadmap". Wolf has been cried one too many times.

I'm more of the idea that WiS was scrapped after the Jita riots and unsubs that basically told CCP to take their microtransaction model and shove it up an exhaust pipe.

If you have nothing productive to say either for or against, you shouldn't say anything.

Oh I should probably address that... I refer you to this thread post.

Nah, he speaks truth on this but with little words. Every two days these threads start, often by the same people and/or their alts. So it just gets recycled over and over again, and the same old talking points like a war of nutrition. It is hilarious this thread, considering a collection plate is bogus, and as if CCP would be tricked into it and wind up with all the players paying for the idea in the end, not any collections. It's not thought through, it's not practical, and not with a game where the majority of players already had spoken on the direction of where the game really needs to go. Discussions are discussions, just because you don't like what someone said, doesn't mean that they shouldn't post it. This isn't a one way discussion full of pink glittery unicorns trailing rainbows out their arse as they leap through the sky.

...often by the same people and/or their alts.

I would agree with your point had Rhes bothered to explain his point of view.

Posting that something you don't like is hilarious just because you don't like it is not a contribution to the thread.

It's actually just trolling, worse than that it's cowardice and ego fluffing.

Jita riots were all about WiS, right?

What, this again? See the link I provided on the post a few posts up. The link to the active WiS thread. You are replying to my posts here but not actually reading them, obviously. More one way conversations there...

Yay, now I have a keyboard

I don't know much about coding but i was always told from my programmer friends the longest parts of development are the modelling and textures both of which are already done and done beautifully in the captains quarters. Seems to me they have the frame and engine, now they just need to find the 4 tires.

Wonderful!
Flawless Victory!

But this isn't true, because when you ask these same people "So, if CCP announced tomorrow that they would no longer be doing any more development of EVE, and said the game as it is today is how it will always be, would you leave, or stay?".

If you said you'd leave then I'd ask wtf are you even doing here now? Aren't you enjoying EVE today already? You mustn't be having much fun if your enjoyment and longevity within the game hinges solely off what's to come with development.

If you said you'd stay, and keep playing EVE as it is right now, then I'd ask wtf is your problem if time and energy is spent developing WiS then?

This is where a lot of people become disarmed, because by contemplating this they realize that it's actually not development concerns at all that are really the basis of their opposition.

"So, if CCP announced tomorrow that they would never develope WIS further, would you leave, or stay?".

If you said you'd leave then I'd ask wtf are you even doing here now? Aren't you enjoying EVE today already? You mustn't be having much fun if your enjoyment and longevity within the game hinges solely off what's to come with development.

It's possible that they were able to run a stripped down version, Or a very buggy version, or maybe it was truly fnatastic and nearly complete. There is no way for us to know the quality of the prototypes they had/have. What we can know is that anything is achievable with the right team, time, and money. Nothing about WiS is unrealistic.

I for one think that with other games delving into avatar based VR gameplay, that it might be a motivator for CCP to continue working with the Oculus to expand into WiS gameplay. Maybe it'll be part of Dust on PC. Maybe it'll be part of Valkyrie which is already on the Oculus. Maybe they'll bring it to EVE. Maybe it will be it's own game altogether. When CCP see's the right opportunity they will work on it. It's too big of an idea to abandon simply because the demographic for EVE isn't entirely on board. Not all games are aimed at the same demographic.

I expected the thread to get locked because it's not the approved WiS ghetto that you're supposed to post this crap in.

Eve is actually in fairly good shape now that they are actually putting effort into it. The ship rebalancing has been fantastic...seeing ships that have been in the game forever actually being used is great.

Sov is kind of borked but Goons are making it work for us and our people in the CSM feel good about the future but there is obviously a lot of work to be done before they could ever go back to wasting time on roleplayer foolishness.

I would want to see what the conversation develops into... perhaps they will ignore your request for now. So far most people against this are just from your alliance. Kind of funny. I wonder what's the agenda behind this.

That's not how economics works.

What exactly are you asking for?

Clearly, not just walking around in stations as that would get boring fast.

I can see value in combining some form of WiS with exploration of old/abandoned outposts and stations. That could be interesting.

However, purely in terms of WiS in populated stations, what services and capabilities do you want and how will they improve what is already there, or what new possibilities are you looking for?

I bow to your excellence, sir.

Your arguement goes both ways. Isn't it possible to enjoy the game now, but know there are things wrong with the game, in serious need of change, and that your future in the game is at least partially dependant on those things changing? It is the same for both of us - we both appear to be playing the game, hence enjoying it, but what we want of the game is not yet there. There are yawning improvements that we both want (or need) to give us the game we desperately crave, and developement time being a zero-sum thing, any developement on one persons "game", is directly impacting the other persons. You want WIS. I want a sov revamp. Dominion was 2009. Incarna was 2011. Get in line, its my turn.

But that's just me. How about you, would you leave EVE tomorrow if CCP said they never intend to fix Sov?

I agree that development should be balanced properly and that the desires and needs of all spectrum of players should get their time in the sun, so I have no problem if Devs spent time working on Sov - even if it has nothing at all to do with my EVE. Many people push for it, just like many push the WiS issue and I hope it gets more time in the sun again too - some day. To say we need to wait and balance it's development is one thing - to say it's unfeasable, is totally dead, somehow shares WoD's fate, caused the Jita riots, is supported by no players, uses an unworkable graphics engine, or will forever be beyond the average PCs capability is just plain wrong though, and I (used to) enjoy arguing against those and all the other misnomers put forward to put down WiS.

'Art' is only a timesink once you have a working game. They do **not** have the engine, this is specifically why there is no chance of it happening.

Did a NPC corp alt really just pull a "your opinion doesn't count because of the character you posted on". You do see the irony of that right?

Even the Alt

I respectfully disagree because any player in EVE has a role. Even the Alt

Hmm...

500 pounds towards a feature that is not planned, currently does not exist, and is thus far theoretical.

OP, did you by chance back Star Citizen?

Holy censorship batman.... So let me restate my point since the forum police did not seem to like my previous posts... WIS is a bad idea for EVE.

'Art' is only a timesink once you have a working game. They do **not** have the engine, this is specifically why there is no chance of it happening.

I'm not pouncing on you or anything, nothing personal. It's just it's been said over and over the past couple years, and there already is another active thread where it has been all said. If you want to understand Rhes pov a little better, then those threads are a better place to start. Just like this thread should have just been a post on that thread, still suggested, but not another redundant thread on it's own.

If they want to make it, they can recruit people with the right skills from other studios.

Not sure what you mean by "working game" or not having the "engine".


I can walk around my cq without falling through the ground or glitching on the walls. I can interact with items in my room such as the undock button and character edit mirror.

How are these different then walking around a casino or exploring a ghost site?

- Rendering multiple avatars in real-time, in a manner that doesn't melt computers. This is pretty basic as far as "working" goes and they've all-but said they can't do it.
- Net code. Seriously. If writing decent and reliable netcode isn't hard enough already (and it is, it's the lion's share of coding and de-bugging time for most online games) they somehow have to make a real-time simulation run on top of a 1hz tick server, and have all that make sense.

If you pro-WiS people are really serious, at least educate yourself on the complexities of what is involved. It's not "nearly done" or "mostly working" when you're talking about a single avatar standing in a room interacting with 2 or 3 scripted objects in a buggy way, when your end goal is a fully fledged MMO experience.

I don't know how to explain this any better. Take as an example Planetside 2: The difference between being able to have a gun bobbing on screen whilst you stand in a room and 200v200 fights in a building isn't "just add a building, done!" , it's 90% of the development work.

Loading some artwork into a game engine and using it is something hobbyists and amateur modders do; creating the whole engine wholesale (which CCP have seemingly, for some reason, decided is the way to go) is where your years of dev time and millions of dollars/pounds/euros go. It's why 'standalone' versions of highly popular mods take months/years to ship, and even then they're speeding up the process by using the same game engine most of the time, and in all recent examples, they don't work nearly as well as the mod worked.

If you remember: CCP had a lot of the WiS done previously using the Unreal engine (so most of the work was done) but then scrapped all that work to go chase their Jesus features - in this case the Carbon engine.

- Rendering multiple avatars in real-time, in a manner that doesn't melt computers. This is pretty basic as far as "working" goes and they've all-but said they can't do it.
- Net code. Seriously. If writing decent and reliable netcode isn't hard enough already (and it is, it's the lion's share of coding and de-bugging time for most online games) they somehow have to make a real-time simulation run on top of a 1hz tick server, and have all that make sense.

- Rendering multiple avatars in real-time, in a manner that doesn't melt computers. This is pretty basic as far as "working" goes and they've all-but said they can't do it.
- Net code. Seriously. If writing decent and reliable netcode isn't hard enough already (and it is, it's the lion's share of coding and de-bugging time for most online games) they somehow have to make a real-time simulation run on top of a 1hz tick server, and have all that make sense.

If you pro-WiS people are really serious, at least educate yourself on the complexities of what is involved. It's not "nearly done" or "mostly working" when you're talking about a single avatar standing in a room interacting with 2 or 3 scripted objects in a buggy way, when your end goal is a fully fledged MMO experience.

I don't know how to explain this any better. Take as an example Planetside 2: The difference between being able to have a gun bobbing on screen whilst you stand in a room and 200v200 fights in a building isn't "just add a building, done!" , it's 90% of the development work.

Loading some artwork into a game engine and using it is something hobbyists and amateur modders do; creating the whole engine wholesale (which CCP have seemingly, for some reason, decided is the way to go) is where your years of dev time and millions of dollars/pounds/euros go. It's why 'standalone' versions of highly popular mods take months/years to ship, and even then they're speeding up the process by using the same game engine most of the time, and in all recent examples, they don't work nearly as well as the mod worked.

If you remember: CCP had a lot of the WiS done previously using the Unreal engine (so most of the work was done) but then scrapped all that work to go chase their Jesus features - in this case the Carbon engine.

- Rendering multiple avatars in real-time, in a manner that doesn't melt computers. This is pretty basic as far as "working" goes and they've all-but said they can't do it.
- Net code. Seriously. If writing decent and reliable netcode isn't hard enough already (and it is, it's the lion's share of coding and de-bugging time for most online games) they somehow have to make a real-time simulation run on top of a 1hz tick server, and have all that make sense.

If you pro-WiS people are really serious, at least educate yourself on the complexities of what is involved. It's not "nearly done" or "mostly working" when you're talking about a single avatar standing in a room interacting with 2 or 3 scripted objects in a buggy way, when your end goal is a fully fledged MMO experience.

I don't know how to explain this any better. Take as an example Planetside 2: The difference between being able to have a gun bobbing on screen whilst you stand in a room and 200v200 fights in a building isn't "just add a building, done!" , it's 90% of the development work.

Loading some artwork into a game engine and using it is something hobbyists and amateur modders do; creating the whole engine wholesale (which CCP have seemingly, for some reason, decided is the way to go) is where your years of dev time and millions of dollars/pounds/euros go. It's why 'standalone' versions of highly popular mods take months/years to ship, and even then they're speeding up the process by using the same game engine most of the time, and in all recent examples, they don't work nearly as well as the mod worked.

If you remember: CCP had a lot of the WiS done previously using the Unreal engine (so most of the work was done) but then scrapped all that work to go chase their Jesus features - in this case the Carbon engine.

I've read lots of Rhe's posts however and he shows no such regard for anyone else, he's incapable of civilised dialogue and is just a troll.

I don't know if it's been mentioned or not, but didn't CCP have a working presentation of WiS with at least a dozen characters at Fanfest 2008? I think there was an eventual crash, still I don't remember any computer meltdown. Also shouldn't our computers be more advanced now considering that the presentation was 6 years ago? I might be wrong about how time works, but in my experience the **** people put in their computers has more hertzes, terabytes, watts and rpms, not lesst...

Here's a little tip for interacting with people online: just because somebody disagrees with you doesn't make them a troll.

They did, they had a lot of it working in a prototype form in the Unreal engine.
See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E
If you contrast that to WoD, where at Fanfest 2013 they talked in vague terms about the future capabilities of the engine and showed some devs getting excited that they have several tools in place to create in-world objects, you see the gulf between the two.

You will note I am not calling CCP incompetent here, I am merely stressing the level of work involved in getting their vision of WiS working vs the Eve-O commentators "just re-use the dust code!" mentality. Be clear: it was CCP's intention to spend the next several expansion cycles after incarna (so, maybe about now) on full-time development of WiS. It took just over two years full-time development to get a version of CQ ready to ship that was so poor it nearly destroyed CCP (and definitely did destroy multiple computers).

If you want to go the next few years leaving
- Still a sub-par NPE
- Terrible PVE across all areas
- FW in need of a re-visit
- A sov system so bad every entity plays around it as much as possible
- POSes that make people want to kill themselves
- No ship balancing
- No new ships
- No new artwork of any kind
- No new whatever they are doing with buildable stargates
- Work on completing V3 / new shaders
- No work on server / game performance

So that you can
- Walk into a 'casino' and be done 5minutes later

then by all means, continue to petition for development on WiS.

The rest of us who actually play with spaceships in this spaceship game don't want CCP to abandon what we all subscribed to, to cater for people still left with a hole to fill when Second Life succumbed to furries.

Was it all before your time, when GD was full of people saying "How about this?" and CCP replying "Maybe in 2-3 years"? People didn't rebel over Incarna because they didn't like walking in stations, they rebelled over Incarna because no work had happened on the (then very badly broken) core game in years because of it, and it was very clear the game wouldn't survive long enough to see the completion of the work unless CCP turned around on it.
Hillmar has said the same thing, in different words.

Superb points all of them, I think it might have been different though if ccp hadn't spread themselves too thin over other non eve projects like dust and wod. Can you imagine what eve and wis would be like today if the 40m usd that was spent on wod had been spent on eve, which morally is where the money should have gone?

For which they need money...and you won't be giving it until its done....which is not going to happen....

They did, they had a lot of it working in a prototype form in the Unreal engine.
See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E
If you contrast that to WoD, where at Fanfest 2013 they talked in vague terms about the future capabilities of the engine and showed some devs getting excited that they have several tools in place to create in-world objects, you see the gulf between the two.

You will note I am not calling CCP incompetent here, I am merely stressing the level of work involved in getting their vision of WiS working vs the Eve-O commentators "just re-use the dust code!" mentality. Be clear: it was CCP's intention to spend the next several expansion cycles after incarna (so, maybe about now) on full-time development of WiS. It took just over two years full-time development to get a version of CQ ready to ship that was so poor it nearly destroyed CCP (and definitely did destroy multiple computers).

If you want to go the next few years leaving
- Still a sub-par NPE
- Terrible PVE across all areas
- FW in need of a re-visit
- A sov system so bad every entity plays around it as much as possible
- POSes that make people want to kill themselves
- No ship balancing
- No new ships
- No new artwork of any kind
- No new whatever they are doing with buildable stargates
- Work on completing V3 / new shaders
- No work on server / game performance

So that you can
- Walk into a 'casino' and be done 5minutes later

then by all means, continue to petition for development on WiS.

The rest of us who actually play with spaceships in this spaceship game don't want CCP to abandon what we all subscribed to, to cater for people still left with a hole to fill when Second Life succumbed to furries.

Was it all before your time, when GD was full of people saying "How about this?" and CCP replying "Maybe in 2-3 years"? People didn't rebel over Incarna because they didn't like walking in stations, they rebelled over Incarna because no work had happened on the (then very badly broken) core game in years because of it, and it was very clear the game wouldn't survive long enough to see the completion of the work unless CCP turned around on it.
Hillmar has said the same thing, in different words.

BTW I thought the rebellion was about micro transactions an not Incarna.

BTW I thought the rebellion was about micro transactions an not Incarna.

Khanh'rhh's reply is the checkmate of every WiS discussion and rightly so because it is a game about space ships not about dancing in stations but more and more players are realising that the game needs to keep up with what the competition is doing and with what players are coming to expect from a game especially when it's subscription based, this is why these threads keep popping up.

The game as it stands will never be fixed there will always be something that needs adding, fixing or balancing, no game world on this scale will ever be perfect but then that doesn't mean it should be allowed to stagnate. If we keep getting offered clothes, tattoos and even avatar defying shoes (new designs now NOT the old designs from the disaster) then we have to get WiS or else CCP are just exploiting our hopes and destroying the future of the game and that will be a checkmate for us all.

That's one horrible post.


And your name is an insult to everybody else.

Dear Khanh'rhh, your points are valid, but let me tell you that as you want only space ships, I want WiS. So maybe we should really look at what percentages of people really want what, because we risk to have a colour revolution where 1% of the people mange to impose their will on the other 99%. Not to say that this is the real percentage and it might well be that people wanting WiS is a minority, but to be honest I don't know that. Does CCP know that? So all I am asking is objectivity. CCP may come to me and say Ubat, STFU. In that case I might, but I believe that I still have the right to request features that I like.

BTW I thought the rebellion was about micro transactions an not Incarna.

CCP do not do WIS kickstarter for a reason. The reason is SC and Elite: Dangerous, both kickstarted some time ago and now work in progress.

Incidentally, the news about Legion should be good for you guys. Sure, it isn't walking in stations, but it's a step closer, and might one day serve as a bridge back to a new look at the WIS concept.

Forgetting the Kickstarter route, would anybody pay an extra sub to get that door open?

Opening one facility room at a time and so scaling it depending on subscriptions since they seem to talk louder than words.

You are all better off sending me the money and in exchange I'll send you back a poorly drawn MSPaint of what I think the interior of your captains quarters would look like.

That's just details.

I'd pledge -ú100 Op, you can dig up plenty of my old posts about WiS. It's the natural progression for this game, it has to happen,

I pledge -ú500 as personal contribution to WiS which CCP can take automatically from my account when they deliver WiS.

1. Are there other players with ballz to commit to WiS development?
2. CCP do you have the ballz to make WiS?

I am watching this with interest...

Link to CCP video about WiS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E

Why? Can you or any other WiS-beggar explain what you think WIS will actually add to the experience outside of RP? I have not seen a single post explaining this.

Why? Can you or any other WiS-beggar explain what you think WIS will actually add to the experience outside of RP? I have not seen a single post explaining this.

A butt hurt goons tears,


delicious...

Why would he be "butt hurt" for having exactly what he wants - a firm commitment from CCP to focus on spaceships instead of barbie dolls in space casinos?

I've said it before, if you pro-WiS guys want any traction on your hopes and dreams of roleplaying a forbidden Amarr-Minmatar 50-shades relationship, you need to actually make sense.

Is this the 'hug your knees and pretend something else is being said' part of the thread, or what do you even imagine "tears" are?

I guess you're just using words that you've seen the big kids use without knowing their meaning, which is cute and everything, but you might want to mimic something more relevant to the post you're quoting, because saying "lol tears" to someone who has gotten what they want at your expense, just makes it seem like you're projecting your own ennui pretty hard.

Anyone who doesn't know why WiS is a bad idea needs only play 30minutes of STO, wherein they're sure to receive multiple messages from xXxhornyorionslavegirlxXx offering a trip to see some black holes.

The op's premise is that CCP should consider a kick starter style campaign to create wis on the grounds that sufficient money can be raised to allow development without taking any resources away from the current game. Meaning that if successful that the present plans for eve and the development cycle would be completely unaffected.

Well, that kind of mentality is what kills software businesses. The moment someone in senior management thinks "More money = more resources" it's time to pack your bags and get the hell out of there.

It essentially means:
- management does not have a good connection with developers and don't have a clue about development processes;
- developers are expected to work more. Sometimes, but only sometimes they are even paid more (because of the "resources") because when it comes to "more money = more resources"the management already does not care about the product or its quality and see only cash;
- Inevitably, the deadlines would not be met and management does not see why... after all they had more "resources"

The only way out is to hire more developers that would be dedicated to the new task. You can imagine what happens to most of them when the feature is finished and put on maintenance mode. That's not something every experienced developer would consider as a good career move with a future.

This thread demonstrates how much activity can be generated by nothing. Humans like to call themselves "intelligent". Frankly, I don't see it. I've seen sheep make better sense than this. Could someone please explain why this behavior is so prevalent in a species that has supposedly conquered all manner of things...space...uh...space...uh...Oh...I see.

The op's premise is that CCP should consider a kick starter style campaign to create wis on the grounds that sufficient money can be raised to allow development without taking any resources away from the current game. Meaning that if successful that the present plans for eve and the development cycle would be completely unaffected.

So quit your crying and your whining

Without further development of new features and game play eve will stagnate and become unsustainable as a 90s style mmo

I will support anything that expands the eve universe and the game play possibilities within